Problem with 4506 Slide Stop

Trooper224 · #51 04-15-2018, 01:30 AM

Thanks Fastbolt, all great information.

SOTVEN · #52 04-15-2018, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper224

"Keep in mind 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide"

I don't think I'd drink the KoolAid to that extent, but they are certainly built to last. When the 3rd Gens were first introduced I remember thinking how solid they felt, definitely built to last.

The younger generation seems to be discovering these old guns and considers them to be pretty cool, having been raised on plastic fantastics. In law enforcement circles they're called "hipster guns" now.

Here are some of the reasons why the 3rd gems are the epitome of semi auto pistols world wide.

Materials. In house metallurgy of S&W has been a technological marvel, and it shows by their stainless and carbon steel, as well as their 7000 series aluminum, that this many years later their pistols are still in working order, and still looking sharp.

Machining/Craftsmanship. In their time, Beretta was limited in offering their 92/96 with alloy lower only. Neither carbon steel, nor stainless. Sig Sauer was still in the post war German philosophy of stamped welded steel sheets, usually without proper matching of the slide/frame rail length next to the hammers and at the dust cover looking at the gun from the sides. S&W had all sorts of metals involved, excellent machining consistency, and their fit and finish was second to none.

Innovation/ Ergonomics. All magazines from the first gen 2 digit models fit and function with the last 3rd gem piece produced. Yes, others do that now, but these guys did it waaaaaaay back then. (first wonder-nine M 59 1970-71) Also parts interchangeability among models, and calibers!!!! Interchangeable flat and straight back strap grips. All shooters know that a grip that fits improves accuracy, yet this is a trend that many manufacturers have not mastered yet, 3 decades later. Sights fixed or adjustable. Need I mention a certain manufacturer whose sights until recently were plastic that had to be broken off to be replaced if needed?

Safety Features. Need I say anything here? OK, I will. It is not called "S&W leg" in the end... Yet, most people cry about the magazine disconnect (which can be removed properly in ten minutes, or removed the quick, ugly way in 1 minute with a cigarette lighter and a wire hook).

Model/Caliber availability. To this day, I am pretty certain no other manufacturer has offered more models in size/caliber/finish/trigger system variations, than the 3rd gem S&W. 66 models are mentioned on the nomenclature configuration chart alone. Without the special runs. Who else claims that?? Maybe I am wrong, so someone correct me please.

Design. Well, here as most people know, the 3rd gems are descendants of the model 39. The 39 was based on the two best designs of the past, the M 1911 and the P 38. With a fully enclosed symmetrical draw bar, and a factory short trigger reset matched only by some 1911s, a proprietary bushing that does a great job aligning the barrel, and a feed ramp that consistently feeds empty brass from the magazine. What more to ask for?

I know someone may jump and say but the x,y,z, brand/model is equal or better, but here is why the 3rd gems were the epitome of pistols. they did all that at the price that a working man could afford!! American industry at its best example!!!
So, my friend, you may not drink a koolAid to my statement, and I accept and respect it. But for the aforementioned reasons, I have had a case of Sam Adams to that statement.

As for the hipsters finding out about these guns, I am not pro hipster, but I can not deny their +1 for their insight. And I thought they were too lost in their I phones.... lol

GaryS · #53 04-15-2018, 02:01 PM

Golden years? That's rust, not gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbolt

Running and gunning the heavy recoiling Magnum guns in our youth can start to come back to haunt us as we age, and the accumulated wear & tear finally stars to make itself felt. It's not at all uncommon for aging 1911 shooters to develop a sudden appreciation of 9's as they reach their golden years.

BLUEDOT37 · #54 04-16-2018, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOTVEN

... they did all that at the price that a working man could afford!! American industry at its best example!!!

I agree, they were, & are fine pieces. Even my younger son appreciates their craftmanship & quality. Last time I showed him my latest find he said " It's hard to believe you can buy an all metal gun in that good of condition for that price these days."

That said, back in the day, these weren't cheap pistols. A 4506 back in 1989 had a MSRP of $701, which is $1434 in today's dollars. A 6" 629 would "only" be $509 then. Big money for a hard working man with a family.

Buy them while they're still resonable.

.

Price List cover - 1989

.

629 - 1989 Price List

.

4506 - 1989 Price List

.

SHO NUT · #55 10-01-2021, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastbolt

In my first armorer class we were told the "gap" between the outside of the frame and the inside of the slide stop's lever ought to be such that a normal business card can slip under it, or even a folded (once) business card. Ideally, the gap ought to be uniform from front to back.

If a lever were to become too "tight" against the frame at the rear, the lever could drag on the frame and possibly interfere with the lever's freedom of movement.

Some occasional drag marks on a particular frame were said to be considered normal, and only cosmetic, if a lever's angle was on the tighter end of the normal tolerance range, as long as the lever's gap (with the frame) was even and the lever wasn't prevented from lifting when lifted by the mag follower, and would be pushed downward by normal tension between the front of the sideplate and the lever's plunger/spring (to prevent it from rising under recoil and causing early slide lock).

Too wide of a gap from the frame, though, and at some point the lever's plunger might jump outward, slipping off the outside of the sideplate. (Meaning the small angled plate formed at the front of the sideplate.)

The gap in one of your pics looks a bit wide (but it's just a pic, and I couldn't pretend to know without handling it and seeing it).

How can a slide stop lever become bent? Well, recoil forces travel through metal in all directions, and we were told that it was sometimes possible that a lot of use, and hot ammo, might sometimes cause a slide stop lever to eventually acquire an inward or outward bend. (This presumes someone hasn't actually damaged it, meaning bending it.)

The angle between the slide stop's lever and its (frame) pin ought to be 90 degrees. (Looking "down" on it, as it were.)

In my first 3rd gen armorer class we were told to keep an eye on the gap between the slide stop lever and frame, especially if we were shooting a lot of +P or +P+ loads (the discussion was about the 59XX series guns). If we came across a lever that had acquired an excessive inward or outward bend, we were shown how to put the lever assembly in a vise and whack it with a lead babbitt (NOT a hammer) to restore the 90 degree angle.

Thanks again for writing this. I was having the same issue with my 645 (slide stop ending up outside the slide), and my gap was uneven, wider gap near the back. Careful tapping with a brass punch with the lever in a soft-jawed vice brought my lever right back to 90. I actually over-did it, should have listened, and had to tap it back, so for anyone else reading, less is more, a little goes a long way, try a few taps, and if that is not enough, only then try a few more.

Now I just need to work on the gritty trigger, and the gun will be perfect. I found a few posts on that subject, looking forward to trying them out!

Thanks again, it's posts like this that keep the flame alive, especially in this throw-away society!

P.S. the images in your full post no longer show up, you might want to re-link them for the next person that comes looking.