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Old 04-10-2018, 03:16 PM
treillw treillw is offline
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Default Bear Gun for Wife

Hello,

I'm researching bear handguns for my wife and I was wondering what caliber you all would suggest? She is a smaller girl, so something without crazy recoil is preferred. I'm going to borrow my buddy's 10mm and let her shoot that to see how she likes it. That might be a little high on the recoil scale though - time will tell.

What caliber would you go to from there? Somebody suggested .40 S&W. I also have a 45 ACP that she would be able to use. Looking up two buffalo bore loads for .40 and .45, they both have 484 ft*lb of energy. So I guess the 40 would have the advantage due to increased mag capacity? I guess the .45 would have a bit of a wider wound channel and I would think it would penetrate better with the heavier bullet.

Buffalo Bore Ammunition | Strictly Big Bore - Strictly Business
Buffalo Bore Ammunition | Strictly Big Bore - Strictly Business

She always carries bear spray. We just want her to have something extra along for if the bear spray decides to not work for whatever reason.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:26 PM
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If the bear spray doesn't work, the chances are 99.9999% there isn't time for Plan B to work.

If I honestly expected to have to fend off a bear, I'd tote a short shotgun full of 00 buck or slugs.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:34 PM
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Might want to do a search on "bear guns" here on the forum. It's kind of a running inside joke. There will be enough reading to keep you and your wife out of harm's way for quite some time. Also agree with SMSgt that bear spray is plan A. OK, those things said, I'll kick off the discussion, rants, opinions, directives, and popcorn consumption with the following summary: Nothing less than a .44 magnum shooting a large, hard cast semi-wadcutter, and that is probably insufficient.

Did I miss anything?
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
If the bear spray doesn't work, the chances are 99.9999% there isn't time for Plan B to work.

If I honestly expected to have to fend off a bear, I'd tote a short shotgun full of 00 buck or slugs.
I'm not debating this. Thanks for your input.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:39 PM
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According to this gentleman you don't need either spray or a gun.

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Old 04-10-2018, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
According to this gentleman you don't need either spray or a gun.

Man scares living **** out of bear - YouTube
That is hilarious.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:43 PM
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There are plenty of cases where handguns have saved lives. Carrying one in addition to bear spray seems like a reasonable thing to do to me. I have made up my mind and nobody is going to change that.

GUN WATCH: Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:44 PM
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If you are going to carry a handgun for incidental bear contact, you should also make sure that she spends enough time shooting at a moving target to be proficient. Here is a link to Pepper spray vs handgun, The Cold Hard Facts of Bear Deterrents: Bear Spray vs Firearms – MeatEater , with info from Frank Van Manen--Inter agency Grizzly Bear Study Team- he has a great deal of knowledge and experience. My wife at 5 foot 2 inch practiced and carried with 4" S&W 500 before an Alaska fishing trip. Often people ask about bear loads/guns and go out into the woods with their choice, but do not spend time actually training with the combination to make them proficient if they were called upon to defend themselves. Too often, people believe having the weapon is all that is needed to be "safe". Avoidance & awareness are your best options just like on the streets of your favorite large city. You can tie a 3-5 gallon bucket to a 4 wheeler with 50-75 ft of rope, drive by her and have her shoot at the bouncing bucket ( bear head ) to " simulate" a possible attack. Be Safe,
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:51 PM
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You know? Without knowing the shooters capabilities it would be very difficult to provide just one right answer. But I believe everyone can agree that the caliber of the pistol should be at "bear" minimum a .357 magnum. Obviously a more powerful caliber would be better but it doesn't do you any good if you can't pull off a couple quick rounds accurately.

.357 magnum with a 170gr hardcast SWC such as the Lyman #358429 bullet is a proven performer on large deer and Bear's. I would NEVER use a hollow point regardless of caliber because a Bear's fur/hide is very thick, and tough. You need serious penetration. Regardless of the caliber that you settle on, I highly recommend a hard cast semi wadcutter bullet.

Consider the Ruger RedHawk in 44 magnum. It is a large, heavy all steel revolver that can handle the recoil and if you reload you can download magnum's or use 44 special's. A 240gr SWC loaded with 7.9gr Unique will get the job done and the recoil will be very manageable. For experienced shooters at least.

Another Bear fearing load to consider is the 41 Remington magnum. It is a nasty, vicious and very stout load that is capable of putting down most large game in North America

All these calibers/bullets I mentioned are incredibly effective on feral Hogs in south texas up to 300+lbs. If that doesn't change a attacking Bears mind, well......Then you're in a lot of trouble.. lol.

Last edited by RGVshooter; 04-10-2018 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:51 PM
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All she needs is to be faster than you.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:02 PM
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Somewhere I have a photo of my 94 pound wife banging steel at 25 yards with my 657 (41 magnum). Don't assume that your wife can't handle a heavy recoiling handgun - she may need to work her way up to it, but it can be done.

In my experience, most women that have a problem with recoil have generally convinced themselves mentally, that they can't handle it. With care, she should be able to handle a caliber that is sufficient for bear.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:08 PM
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Granted it's not as big as a Bear, but this was one of the best stops out there on YouTube.


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Old 04-10-2018, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
Granted it's not as big as a Bear, but this was one of the best stops out there on YouTube.


Charging wild boar vs 357 mag - YouTube
The bigger the animal, the bigger the target
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:17 PM
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I wonder if those who suggest trusting human lives to bear spray alone realize how windy it is 9 out of 10 days in MT. Half the time you're struggling to keep your hat on. This past hunting season I was almost knocked over by the wind and it did make my wife fall.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:23 PM
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I think I'm in the .44 Mag camp, with most shooting/practicing done with .44 Special. In fact, a .44 Special +P, with hard cast bullets would probably be as effective as many magnum loads.
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:34 PM
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Being a "smaller girl", and I am guessing not very experienced with hard recoiling handguns, I would honestly recommend a 9mm pistol loaded with flat nose hardcast or FMJ's in 147 grain weight.

No handgun is going to have the power to knock a big bear off his feet for the count. The only reliable way to do it is to penetrate the brain or spinal cord.

A 9mm, loaded as stated above, will give good penetration, and yet be controllable and easy to shoot for the shooter, thus giving her the best chance of making multiple accurate hits on the bears skull. My opinion, anyway....

Larry
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03hemi View Post
All she needs is to be faster than you.
Husband " We can't outrun a bear"

Wife " but I can outrun you"
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:36 PM
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I've never shot a bear, and don't plan to. I've lived around them, though, in Montana, Idaho, New Mexico, and now Colorado.

If the only reasonably effective way to stop them with a handgun is to shoot through the skull into the brain, then you need something she can shoot well enough to hit the thing. Then it needs to penetrate the skull.

I agree a good hard cast 9mm would do the trick, and you can get it in a gun that holds a bunch of them. Better than not even getting a shot off with a big single action.

Buffalo Bore also makes a .32 caliber load that will shoot through a bear's skull, at least according to them.

HEAVY 32 H&R MAG. +P

This usually results in guffaws and questions about orientation and advice to file off the front sight or to shoot your pal in the knee with it. But if the wife can shoot it well, and manages to land one on Smokey's skull, who cares?
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:45 PM
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Bear thread and wife-gun thread?

Double-point combo thread!

Also, the correct answer is: the gun she wants to carry, that she's willing to carry, and ideally, that she'll be eager to practice with.

One of these days, a woman is going to post about what gun she should get her husband to carry, given that his big hands might have trouble operating a smaller pistol, and he's kinda dumb and clumsy so he needs a manual safety, and I'm just gonna die laughing.
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:05 PM
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Some time ago, I read an article from an Alaska hunting guide. He recommended a 44 mag, with Swift A-frame bullets.

His reasoning for that specific bullet is that it's design expands and penetrates. It stings enough to distract a charging bear, and that moment of distraction allows for more followup shots on a now slower target.
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:23 PM
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Another vote for 147g 9mm, either hardcast +P (Buffalo Bore) or brass-shelled FMJ +P+ (Underwood). Chances are your Wife can shoot a 9mm more accurately and a compact double-stack will provide her with many shots if needed. Phil Shoemaker took down a Grizzly with the Buffalo Bore hardcast - out of a single-stack S&W 3953!
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:50 PM
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What type of bear? Black, or Brown. Big difference. My wife, small stature can handle my 357PD (41 Mag) but does not really care for it and the recoil. If a black bear then a 357 Mag should do the trick with a decent load and her ability to hit what she aims at. A Brown or Grizzly then 41 Mag as a minimum, with a heavy flat point bullet.
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:56 PM
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I heard of a woman who escaped a grizzly bear attack with just one shot from a small .25 Auto.
That's right!
One well placed shot into her boyfriend's knee, and she was able to get away!


*
Old joke I know. But I couldn't resist. Please forgive me. :-)

God bless,
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGVshooter View Post
Granted it's not as big as a Bear, but this was one of the best stops out there on YouTube.


Charging wild boar vs 357 mag - YouTube
Dude was lucky he didn't put a round through his own clumsy foot.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:31 PM
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Being this is the S&W Semi-Auto Pistol forum, I'm presuming you're leaning more towards a semi-auto than towards a revolver.

That being said, your .40, 10mm, or .45 acp are all acceptable calibers. The .40 and the 10mm have greater capacity magazines.

I have to admit, if I have to go with a semi-auto, I'm old fashioned and prefer my Model 1911 in .45 acp. There are 10-round magazines available and it'll handle some good solid loads.

Having lived over 30 years in bear country, I almost always pack a revolver in .45 Colt loaded with some heavy duty loads. Like I mentioned earlier, this being the semi-auto forum, you must be leaning towards a semi-auto.

When "push comes to shove," however, it's your wife's call. I can personally tell you, though, that no matter what you're carrying at the time you're confronted with a bear, whether it be a black bear or a grizzly, you're going to wish you were packing something a little bigger.

They call that human nature.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:42 PM
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Bear's/Guns...? Who knows ?
Remote incident. Will you have the
time for an accurate shot or not ?

Just remember the last line in
movie "Legend's of The Falls".

"It was a good death"..
(One Stab).
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:48 PM
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I have not handgun hunted bear, but I have owned, fired, tested and handloaded enough pistol calibers to say I would not consider anything less than the 41 mag, and if it were for me, it would be the 44 mag. She needs practice, and lots of it. I would not consider a double stack 45 acp either. Barrel length 5 or 6 inches
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:48 PM
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Semi-auto aside, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 45LC. When loaded correctly, it has more stopping power than a 44 magnum, at less pressure, consequently less recoil.

A well place shot trumps nearly everything, so find something she can shoot. I don't know why, but I'd just feel out of place with an auto in the field. No reason it doesn't work, it just feel wrong to me. I'm an auto guy nearly all the time, but I have a 357 for the field - don't expect to see bears.

A stout revolver might still fit her hand, especially with gunfighter grips. The revolver should roll when fired and recoil could actually be less than some of hotter loads mentioned above, simply because of the weight and design of the revolver.

You didn't say what she'd be doing in the woods, but a VERY good holster and belt, or carry rig, will make the revolver, or any gun, easier to carry.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:55 PM
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I got a 629 4" bear gun for my wife in a trade.

Best deal I ever made but sometimes I miss her. Yuk Yuk!
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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15rds of 10mm.

Glock 20 Gen4 | G20 Gen4 | 10mm Pistol | GLOCK USA
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:26 AM
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My wife’s two fav guns to shoot: Ruger Vaquero 45LC and her M&P 45. Women enjoy and can handle large calibers.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
If the bear spray doesn't work, the chances are 99.9999% there isn't time for Plan B to work.

If I honestly expected to have to fend off a bear, I'd tote a short shotgun full of 00 buck or slugs.
OO Buckshot hasn't impressed me, slugs have. Better yet, Dixie Slugs 12ga tri-balls (3- 62 caliber, 315 gr round hard cast balls @ 1100 fps with a 20" bbl) in a 3 1/2" shell, 1,000 fps in the 3" shell. Recoil is as bad as expected. They also make a big/heavy dangerous game slug, I've been afraid to try that one.

Last edited by nachogrande; 04-11-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:51 AM
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FWIW, I bear hunt in Maine and I took a .44 magnum as a back up gun the first time I went. The outfitter told me I should leave it in camp because it was legal for bear hunting and I could not have it loaded after legal shooting time expired. I checked with the guides and noticed that they carried .45acp government models and .357 revolvers loaded with 158gn soft points. Both were adequate for bear but apparently not considered "bear hunting" calibers. A lot would depend on where she carried it and what the regulations were. Get her a .357 she likes and have her practice with it.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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I'd recommend the M69 (.44 Magnum), with bear load ammunition.

I understand she doesn't want recoil...hopefully, she only will need one shot!
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:11 PM
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Running and tree climbing lessons.....she doesn't have to be fast enough to out run the bear , she just needs to be fast enough to outrun you. Bears stop running when they eat .
Employ the firearm of your choice from the upper branch of a tree or do a lot of screaming for help.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckin View Post
My wife’s two fav guns to shoot: Ruger Vaquero 45LC and her M&P 45. Women enjoy and can handle large calibers.
That's a great thing....

I ONCE took the opportunity of firing my range friends 44 mag..

Fired 6 shots..The next morning I thought the middle finger of my right hand was broken..Looked like a grape colored banana and was almost as large.

I'm a right handed shooter so this was the finger under the trigger guard.

So I decided the only place I ever wanted to see a 44 mag again was in somebody's holster.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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What’s the saying about filing down the sights so the the gun will be less abrasive when the bear shoves it up your bleep bleep.

Family moving to brown bear territory so a 4” 44 Mag S&W is in the safe and the kids practice..... might have bought a Smith in 45LC, (we have a Blackhawk but thats SA) but they wanted the famed 44mag.
10mm Glock was considered but decided that would be for the Carolinas.
No 460/500 S&W snubbies in stock that day.
Kids can handle the 458 #1 snubby 510gr Rem.
No shoulder issues...
Short shotgun, SxS or OU, with solids is prudent.... double triggers.
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:45 PM
treillw treillw is offline
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Some food for thought:



I just used the stoutest loads off of Buffalo Bore's website as a starting point. I'm sure there are some other good cartridges out there that I'm missing.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:09 PM
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For many reasons, a bear gun should be a revolver. A 44 special with the proper bullet, you may need to penetrate bone and skull. Not a good time to be racking a slide or dropping a mag.
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:00 AM
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I suspect a Real good 8 shot 357 Magnum which has knock down power greater then a 45APC Cartridge would be a good choice to Meet Mr. Bear with and be the winning Survivor. Either that or my HotRod P/U truck.Its really fast off of the line.
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Old 04-12-2018, 12:32 AM
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...22 long...

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Old 04-12-2018, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treillw View Post
Hello,

I'm researching bear handguns for my wife and I was wondering what caliber you all would suggest? She is a smaller girl, so something without crazy recoil is preferred. I'm going to borrow my buddy's 10mm and let her shoot that to see how she likes it. That might be a little high on the recoil scale though - time will tell.

What caliber would you go to from there? Somebody suggested .40 S&W. I also have a 45 ACP that she would be able to use. Looking up two buffalo bore loads for .40 and .45, they both have 484 ft*lb of energy. So I guess the 40 would have the advantage due to increased mag capacity? I guess the .45 would have a bit of a wider wound channel and I would think it would penetrate better with the heavier bullet.

Buffalo Bore Ammunition | Strictly Big Bore - Strictly Business
Buffalo Bore Ammunition | Strictly Big Bore - Strictly Business

She always carries bear spray. We just want her to have something extra along for if the bear spray decides to not work for whatever reason.

Thanks for the help!
The Buffalo Bore site is your answer. Once there you might use the "Contact' button to ask the owner since he hunts bears with a handgun using his Outdoorsman (Bear) ammo what caliber and handgun model he uses.
However__if bear spray doesn't do it___ she'll already be pretty short on time.
I have one magazine for my Sig P320 loaded with his Outdoorsman ammo. That mag is labeled "BEAR". When I'm heading up in the nearby Santa Rita Mountains I put that mag in my pistol.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kent View Post
FWIW, I bear hunt in Maine and I took a .44 magnum as a back up gun the first time I went. The outfitter told me I should leave it in camp because it was legal for bear hunting and I could not have it loaded after legal shooting time expired.
I do not know who the outfitter is but he is wrong. A 44 mag is legal for bear hunting and with a CCW you may carry it out of the woods , in vehicle, as long as you have Maine CCW or one from another state that is honored, which is the same a Mi. Which My wife and I did Sept 2017. Laws Pertaining to Hunting Equipment: Hunting Laws & Rules: Hunting & Trapping: Maine Dept of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. This is the link to Me firearm laws, hunting & ccw, his info is incorrect. Yes we both took nice bears, Yes, hers was bigger. Be Safe,
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Last edited by vipermd; 04-27-2018 at 03:26 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:15 AM
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Shot placement is far more important than caliber.
As pointed out above .44 Mag. is minimum IF you are in an area
where grizzly roam. For black bear a well placed .38 Spl. works
better than a miss with a .44 magnum. (Been there,done that)
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:28 AM
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Spray more effective than guns against bears: study | CBC News

Bear spray - Wikipedia
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:37 AM
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"Bear Gun for Wife"

It's awfully nice of you to carry it for her .

"We just want her to have something extra along for if the bear spray decides to not work for whatever reason."

Hopefully it is (mostly or fully) her idea to do this; if not, and especially if it is not a handgun that she is comfortable carrying and shooting...at least you will have a new gun...
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:17 AM
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Down here in Louisiana if'n you shoot a bear you better hope you have teeth marks somewhere on your body to show the game warden otherwise you going to the hooky house
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Old 04-22-2018, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treillw View Post
TI have made up my mind and nobody is going to change that.
You started this thread and quickly say you've made up your mind and won't change? Why in the blazes did you start the thread then?

Sorry, I think semi autos are lame for grizzlies. I prefer my 500 mags and yes, I can shoot fairly heavy loads relatively quickly and certainly accurately at ranges you should be dealing with.

A heavy load 500 Mag is more like a .338 Win Mag than any smaller rifle. Try comparing the 500 to a .308. May not be laboratory testing but on water filled milk jugs, a .308 just makes them dance, the 500 detonates them like a bomb, a huge cloud of spray and vastly outpenetrates them in anything but steel and no steel armored grizzlies out there. Don
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josywales View Post
Semi-auto aside, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 45LC. When loaded correctly, it has more stopping power than a 44 magnum, at less pressure, consequently less recoil...
OK, wait, WHAT???
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Old 04-22-2018, 07:21 PM
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"Bear Gun for Wife"? Sounds like a fair trade to me.
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