Who is still using a 3rd gen for a duty gun, and if so, which one?

Where I work now, we supply our own gun and basically it has to be a 9,.40 or .45 and not a single action (no 1911’s).

Currently using a G17 that I bought for a previous dept that mandated 9mm Glocks, but I would like to go back to a metal frame gun and have had a 5906 and 4003 in the past (sold them to fund other purchases).

So I am considering getting back in the 3rd gen game.

Also probably going to look for a TSW, since I work seconds and like having a WML.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I don't carry one now but did for years, 3913 off duty, 5903 for soft clothes and 4506 uniform. Gave them up in 2003 when we were allowed to switch to Glocks.

If I had the choice today, which I do, I would say NO. The guns have been out of production for years. Mags are expensive and hard to find. Smith does not support them so parts are limited. Holsters and other accessaries are hard to find.

In their time they were a great option but their time has passed. If you really really want a steel/metal gun I'd say Sig 226 or upgraded Beretta 92

Also look at CZ 75s.

I think WV state police are still using 4566TSW.

I completely agree with everything mscampbell2734 said. Many years ago, the PD I work for issued 5906s if you wanted an issued gun, or you could carry your own. When my Glock 21 had to be sent back to Glock for an upgrade that involved milling the slide. I carried an issued 5906 for a few weeks. Very good gun, but very heavy for what it was since it had a stainless frame. It was enough heavier that, by the end of a 10 hour shift, I could tell it had been hanging on my hip for the whole shift.

Also, nowadays, there is no factory support if something happens to it. Also, as was noted, holsters and accessories are getting harder to find since the guns are out of production, except for some special runs for LE agencies. If you really want to, they are good, durable, reliable guns, so it should work OK, but there are better options out there and poly framed guns are so much more pleasant to carry for long periods of time.

If you feel strongly about it, a 5906 or a 4506 would do the job nicely. However as observed, they are heavy and there is a lack of accessories available. Rick Grimes still carries a Python.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

I think everyone is onto something here. I only carried a 4566 for a short period of time. The weight didn't really bother me. However, I think there are a lot of other factors that would preclude me from carrying one now.

First, the fact that they are NOT supported by the factory is a pretty big deal. Yes, you can find parts online from various sources, but that is time consuming. Many manufacturers that still support metal frame guns regularly and consistently manufacture and stock support parts. That is a BIG deal when it comes to a duty pistol. Remember, a duty pistol shouldn't be subjected to long periods of "down time".

Secondly, when it is down, is your back up plan to carry something else? If not, then are you going to buy two of the same model? One for primary duty and a second as a spare?

Third, when you start talking about 45, there are more modern pistols that have more capacity. I think that's an important consideration these days.

Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE 3rd gennie fanboy, but I think that sadly their time as viable duty guns has passed/is passing.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

If I had to choose a carry all day 3rd Gen , it would be a 5903.
Reliable, light and good capacity.
Jim

Working the streets demands a proper handgun that you feel confident with, will work 100% of the time, provides ample reload ability with magazines or speed loaders that function perfectly and with a gun that you can operate as second nature. There can be no need to think when you may have to draw and fire without hesitation. Guys that bounce back and forth with carry weapons concern me... because there is no way you can be at the top of your game with everything you own.

Before I became a cop I carried a 4003 as my CCW. When I became a cop we were issued G22’s at my first Dept. I then switched to only carrying a striker fired gun off duty.

I now am going to most likely going to switch to a DA/SA gun, whether it’s a Smith or a Beretta, I will also switch to a DA/SA off duty as well.

Mecgar makes 17 rd mags for both the 5906 and the Beretta 92 so I wouldn’t be losing capacity over my G17. And I also carry 3 spares. Safariland still makes holsters for them so I’m good there too.

I also put in my own time at the range. I don’t just go during qualifying

.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

The biggest thing that has me pause about the Smith is the parts issue. Although I never needed parts other than changing mag and recoil springs on my 5906 or 4003.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I'm still waiting for any firearm I've ever owned to go "down."

These were and are very capable firearms, albeit a bit on the heavy side with steel or stainless steel receivers. Even the aluminum receiver versions are a few ounces heavier than a pistol with a polymer receiver.

As for spare parts and service, there are no longer any S&W service centers, so serious repairs mean a trip back to the mother ship and I expect something like a damaged receiver is going to mean the end of that particular pistol. How long will the spare parts supply last? Who knows, but eventually it will run out.

While the lack of parts and service, or more accurately, the difficulty of parts and service is a big deal, the bigger one is the lack of quality modern duty gear for the platform. The duty holsters available today, especially for pistols with WMLs and red dots, are simply not going to be available for the 3rd gen. They are generally only available for the major players, which means mostly Glock and S&W M&Ps. The old school gun buckets of the 70s/80s are simply not a sound choice, and any administrator who allows those holsters deserves percussive maintenance and a quick firing.

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NHI, 10-8.

Safariland makes a 6280 for 5906 and 4006, and a 6360 for the 4566 with WML’s. I use a 6360 for my G17/TLR1 combo.

I am a Safariland guy.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

I agree. S&W seems not to have any receivers, at least not for non LE users. It's possible, but I couldn't swear to it, that a LEO who called Customer Service might get priority over me or any other non LEO caller.

And of course, there is a luck of the draw factor to who actually answers the phone. I might even try to contact the Performance Center directly were I a LEO.

Of course, they rarely break.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I think the 92 would be a good choice. You can carry a full size duty gun and off duty the Compact is not bad. Both will accept 17 round mags.

I also carry the same type of action on and off duty. When I carried Smiths it was for everything. When I switched to Glock same thing, 22 on duty and 27 off.

The only third gen gun I ever owned and tried to use as a duty gun wasn't a good experience for me. Sort of soured the whole line for me. Was never tempted to try another.

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America First

Aren't there some LAPD guys here who went through LAPD's school last year so they could carry the 4506? I don't see a problem carrying a 3rd gen on duty. NYPD still has officers carrying the 5946 & WVSP is still carrying the 4566TSW. I would carry one.

When the 3 gen SW auto came to the CLEVELAND P.D. many stayed with the wheelgun.

Back in the 20th century, the 5906 in uniform and the 3913 in plainclothes. But why today, a steel gun? My concern would be weight and carrying the same sidearm as my fellow officers. With more police involved shootings today, one never knows when you might need to use your partners magazine or simply be familiar with the workings of a same brand/make gun. In the heat of battle…just a thought.

Some large departments, LAPD comes to mind, don't seem to think that this is an issue. They allow officers to not only carry different models, but different calibers. NYPD seems to do the same.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Beretta has brought back the Compact 13+1 or with the adapter it can be Centurion Size at 18+1 w/ 20 rd factory/Mec-Gar spares.

The best of the Beretta's IMO for duty size gun is the Centurion full size frame and compact 4.3" barrel/slide. Wilson Combat has new ones.

There are several sources for ultra-thin grips... Wilson Combat, VZ grips and Allegheny Arms and Gun Works.

Third Gen Smiths.......are still GTG guns IMHO..... but as mentioned out of production..... all day carry I'd opt for a alloy frame 59xx w/ Mec-gar 17 round mags or a Compact 6906/04.

Have you looked at the Beretta PX4?

It's polymer frame, but it's TDA and fully supported by Beretta. They are great shooting guns and by all accounts one of the most reliable guns out there. It comes with replaceable different size backstraps. TDA PX4's are switchable from "FS" to "G" and back again, so if you want a hammer drop only without the chance of knocking the gun on "safe" when you run the slide, you can set it up for that. Or if you want an actual saftey, you can set it up like that as well. There are DAO available as well, if that's what you want.

Beretta offers factory options, such as different size safety levers, slide locks, mag releases, triggers, etc. The DA trigger is hard to beat, especially with the "D" hammer spring. The trigger is positioned slightly better than the 92's, making it easier for small handed folks to reach on DA.

Look up "Ernst Langdon PX4" for an idea of what it's capable of.

I've absolutely fallen in love with mine. It's accurate, lower recoiling, and has been ultra reliable. The factory support is really top notch as well. You don't hear much about them, but people that own and shoot them will tell you the same things I have. The PX4 is one to look at.

As always, everyone's mileage may vary, but here is my two cents on this matter. If you may find a 3rd gen in good condition, get it for a service handgun. Clean it, replace the recoil spring, oil it, good to go. Unless you intent to cut the pistol with a grinding wheel, you will not need the factory service on it. Of course, should you experience a catastrophic failure with it, just like with any other firearm, any factory repair would be of no importance anyway, since the credibility of said service firearm would be compromised. I live in Europe, and any sort of factory support has been out of the picture since these were new, never mind now. Of all the 3rd gems I own, the most used and abused is my 5904, probably 1988. the pistol was in bad shape when i got it. I stripped it, refinished it, new recoil spring and new grip to replace the old broken one that was missing pieces and was shifting in and out, and the pistol is new. Note that it was operating fine even in that horrible condition. its about two and a half thousand rounds since then, and the pistol sings! Also, keep in mid that the 3rd gems feed reliably empty cases. not many modern manufactured pistols can claim the same. My latest, is a tsw 5903, which really, if that is not THE quintessential 9 mm service sidearm, I do not know what is. Plus for the adjustable sight variants or the Novak style sights, you do get to find night sights too.
Magazines. Yes, pricey compared to a plastic magazine, but you do get a stainless magazine that chances are they will outlast you. plus, they are available by the gazillions. Mecgar makes a wonderful product when it comes to the S&W 9mm. I own their 15-17 and 20 rounders, all 100% positive feeding, and at lower cost than OEM.
Holsters. 99% of the holsters made for a sig 226, will fit the 59xx platform. if you go with the 45xx, as long as it has a round trigger-guard, a 1911 holster will do most of the time.for my square trigger guard 4506, I found that m92 holsters work fine.
Lasers. Not any in production that I know of, But from time to time I see crimson trace grips on fleabay.
Grips. Oem are still available from time to time on online vendors. I got a few. Hogue still offers their rubber and wood options. Ksd from Turkey makes good walnut grips too. (At least that has been my experience.)
Frame weight. I belong to the few shooters that prefer a heavy gun over a lighter one. to me, it makes more sense that a pistol shoots better, regardless if it carries bad. And in my experience, the additional weight of the 3rd gems, make them better shooter, taming recoil much better than the plastics.
So in the end, personally, not only I would choose a 3rd gem, rather I would choose only a 3rd gem for a service side arm.

I carried 4506-1, 4566, 4516-3, 4513TSW, 3913, 3914 at various times as an Investigator for almost two decades. I shot all those guns a lot and never broke anything.

And now as a Magistrate I carry a CS45 or CS9. Fine pistols. I could care less about factory support. I have spares and a gunsmith. But Ive yet to need him.

Were I to go back to investigations I would carry a 3rd gen again. Reliable, accurate and with a good holster and gunbelt the weight is not an issue, for me. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I carry a 4576 everyday. I have plenty of spare parts for my third generation Smiths. Holsters are readily available and dont cost $140 and are not made of plastic. And, one CAN master several types of firearms. Three gun, anyone?

This recent "No Factory support" argument.... drives me nuts......

My Dad's 1938/39 Colt New Service in .357 magnum hasn't needed "factory support" or a Gunsmith since he got it back from King's in 1939. Same for his 1946 M&P or his 1950s Colt Detective Special......all have seen thousands of rounds...... the New Service tens of thousands!!!!!!



.............. heck there are single action Army's still running.

I had all the springs replaced by a local gunsmith in 2010 in a pre-1900 Stevens Favorite so my boys could shoot it..... it was well used when I got it in 1962...... it's was and is in the white.....

I've got " a bunch of 3rd gen Smiths..... some dating to 1989/90 none have needed "factory support"...... they are just like the Energizer Bunny... they just keep on running and running....

worse case a gunsmith and a few spring replacements someday.


There are 300,000,000 million guns in this country ....... simply because they for the most part never wear out............. Subaru is proud of claiming 90% of Forester's are still on the road after 10 years............lots and lots of guns out there over 10 years old...........

Yeah I taught the school. Half the guys wanted to go with Smith 45XX and the other half with Berettas.

The Beretta shooters were all former military guys with lots of time and experience with the platform so they knew how to shoot and maintain it.

The 45 shooters on the other hand mainly wanted the old school cool of the Smith 45. Some were great shooters but of the two who failed both were Smith 45 shooters.

Also unlike the 59XX mags have become very hard to find for the 45 guns.

Yep, could not possibly agree more....I have plenty of spare parts, can make most anything else and I am a gunsmith

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

BMCM you are an EXCELLENT gunsmith. There, fixed it for you. Best regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Oh, and by the way, many parts are interchangeable across models and calibers. This makes a replacement somewhat easier, should you ever need something. Plus, for anyone that dislikes the SA/DA trigger shift, there are 3rd gem DAO of course. In the end, someone who packs heat for a living, it is only wise to have at least three identical of whatever sidearm they choose, regardless make or model. Any firearm that breaks, might need a while to be fixed. A glock in our range got a broken extractor a few months back, and there was a 3 week waiting to get the proper replacement. I need only one computer for the line of work I am right now, but I do not have only one computer for the work Therefore, If its a tool of the trade, a quicly available replacement is a wise move. again, regardless platform. BTW used 45xx magazines on fleabay right now. various vendors. And of course, none ships across the Atlantic. Bummer...

There was a recent article in Shooting Illustrated along these lines. Look at how long the US Army used the 1911, not to mention the Beretta. Also, most PDs turn in their firearms for new ones while there is still plenty of life left in them.

I fully expect that my 3rd Gens (and S&W revolvers) will outlast me.

A friend of mine has his great grandfather's Winchester. I think it's chambered in 38-25 or something. I've shot it and it works fine. He sent it out to a gunsmith friend of his for a clean up/tune up. Not a restoration.

I have a 1968 or so Savage 69RXL that was a police gun. When I got it, it didn't cycle reliably. I figured out the problem, after a couple of tries, and it works quite well now. Parts from several other Savage shotguns interchange and are available used. I replaced the bold slide and both extractor and had no problem finding them.

There are some guns that have worn and for which parts are incredibly rare. Those are the minority, though.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Commonality is not an issue here. We supply our own guns and I don’t know if two of us actually has the same exact setup. Lol
Mostly a mix of Glocks and M&Ps of different calibers and frame sizes. Half the time we are working alone and the Sheriff’s Dept that is our primary backup also has a more liberal policy if you want to choose something other than what they issue. I usually carry 3 spares mags plus theres a rifle that sits next to me.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

Yep I looked at the PX4. But I’m wanting an all metal gun. So if I can’t find a 3rd Gen Smith I like at a reasonable price, I’ll likely go with a Beretta 92A1 or M9A1. Although if I go the Beretta route I may do a PX4 compact for off duty.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

The few spares you may need MAY be available from Numrich. Firing pin and spring, extractor and spring (make sure they're the right ones, extractor has to be fitted), spare ejector (the nose tends to break from operator error, but the gun keeps on perking-they just become darn near impossible to re-assemble after field stripping) and springs. Oh yeah, a trigger play spring and a couple of rivets. I'd get those on hand prior to carrying a 3rd generation on duty.

I carried an issued 1006 for 16 years, they were replaced by M&P40s. The M&P is a better combat gun.

FWIW, the 1006 went through a couple extractors/springs early on (parts needed revision-expect early guns used 4506 parts) and a trigger play spring plus scheduled maintenance at 5K rounds/5 years. Scheduled maintenance was recoil spring, extractor & extractor spring an maybe the firing pin spring.

The 5906 (POW) used off duty/USPSA etc never had anything but a recoil spring change. It did lottsa practice, matches, several instructor schools etc. Overbuilt workaholic.

The revised trigger play spring currently available has one big finger and is much stronger than the original two finger version.

I’d go with a 6906. Good compromise between size, weight, and round count. To me, the best 3rd generation Smith. So many were made that parts are around . Holsters for a Glock 19 will fit.

My carry gun was a 39-2 then a 5903 now a CZ 75.

I have an ex-law enforcement Ruger P94DAO in 40 S&W. It is a rare unicorn gun as far as LEO guns go, but my point being it is solid and will most likely last me a lifetime. I had the recoil and magazine springs changed out . (It is my home defense/range gun now. )
If I were looking at an all metal duty gun,today , it would be a Sig Sauer or Beretta 92, because parts nd upgrades are currently available

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

The biggest roadblock I’m seeing to me going with a 3rd Gen will be finding a 5903 or 06 TSW and already being decock only. Need the TSW for the light rail, and prefer the decock only. I know they exist l, because I’ve seen them before online, but I’m sure it’ll be lucky to find one when the time comes. I’m going 9mm for capacity and I’ve already run into situations where backup is a ways out and I’ve had to hold the situation by myself for a little while. If I went with a 4006/03 that’s giving up potentially 6 rounds per mag over a 17 rd MecGar mag for the 59 series.

If I don’t do a 3rd gen, it’ll most likely be a 92A1 Beretta. Because for $55 you can convert it to decock only.

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M&P .40, M&P 9c & Shield 45

If still in LE work, and I wanted to carry a 3rd Gen S&W auto on duty, I would. My favs are the 3904, 457, and 4563.