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Old 06-14-2018, 10:07 AM
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Default Chiefs Special 9mm

While primarily dealing with the Chiefs Special 9mm, this thread will also deal with other aspects of small 9mms in general or anything related that you may want to interject. I didnt want to clutter the other fine CS9 Mods thread that is currently going on.

I was very late to the Chiefs Special semi auto line of guns. I had a black CS9 several years ago when I was still on the job. But at the time, while it was a fine pistol in its own right, it didnt really do anything that my 39XX guns werent already doing, for me. So I sold it to a member here who needed it for his daughter.

Fast forward a few years and I aquired another black CS9 LNIB. Being retired from Investigations, but still employed in the criminal justice system and armed by statute, I needed a deep concealment pistol. One that could be carried under a judges robe or T-shirt. Or even pocket carried.

For me, 380 is not an option. I worked robbery homicide cases for almost 20 years in the District Attorneys Office. Very few of the GSW homicide cases I worked were done with a 380. I can only recall 2. And that is 2 out of over 200. Yes, shot placement trumps all. Put a 380 through their eye socket and they will not know that it wasnt a 45. But for me, 9mm is as low as I go.

And a word about 9mms. The hype about 9mm rounds, lately, is that the FBI has gone to 9mm - so it must be a death ray. Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt that the same FBI who scorned the 9mm round after a famous unfortunate incident in Miami? The 9mm was not at fault in that famous debacle. The FBI tactics were. The reason the feds are going to the 9mm is primarily because it is cheap. And it is also easier to get a short weak handed recruit who has no gun experience to shoot a minimum qualifying score of 70.

Yes, the 9mm round has been improved over the last decade. But having spoken directly with some of the folks who improved them, they also improved all their other rounds too. At the same time.

But back to the CS9. While I carried 45s most of my career, I have no problem with a 9mm. But when choosing a 9mm, you must be selective about what round you stoke it with. Moreso than when using a 45. I chose Winchester Ranger 147 grain RA9B. Because I watched a Winchester rep demo some out of short barrel 9mm off duty guns. He told us that they designed the round with sub 4 inch barrel guns in mind. During the demo it averaged 15 to 16 inches penetration and .61 expansion. Good enough for government work. Federal HST is another good round that works out of short barrel 9mms. My CS9 shoots both the 124 and 147 standard pressure HST to POA.

I was always envious of those who carried the light weight J-frames and sub compact 380 guns. Envious of the small size and light weight NOT the caliber or capacity. I prefer 8 rounds of 9mm JHP to 5 rounds of.........anything.

In the CS9 I have my small light weight, flat, easily concealed and carried gun. A pistol for those rare times I "can't have a gun" like at Church or social functions with non gun folks. It is a 380 size pistol with 9mm ballistics.

And the CS9 points and handles exceptionally well. It is fast out of a holster and points right where you want it too. I have modified mine with the excellent TercGen grips. IMO the CS series guns should have come from the factory wearing these. With the TercGen grip and a flat baseplate on the mag, I can pocket carry my CS9. But that is something I rarely do, other than when I'm at the pool or the beach. I prefer IWB or on the belt carry.

I have a DeSantis Nemesis for IWB as well as a Cozy partner. For belt carry a Don Hume JIT slide for a S&W 3913 works very well. An 8-round 3913 mag is what I carry for a reload.

I have had a very good experience with the CS9 over the last couple of years. So much so that I bid on and won a stainless variant this past weekend. It has the metal Novak sights and an ambi safety. I am left handed, but I dont use the decocker safety as a safety. I carry in the holster safety off. So this new to me stainless CS9 may go to BMCM for conversion to a single sided safety.

Anyways, those are my current thoughts on what has rapidly become one of my favorite carry guns. I expect my stainless CS9 will be as good in all respects as my black carbon steel slided version and even better in the corrosion resistance category. I will post a range report here after I have a chance to run a few hundred rounds through it. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:35 AM
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I will post a range report here after I have a chance to run a few hundred rounds through it.
As usual, a thought provoking post that will probably end up costing me a bundle.

When you get that new piece, I know of a local range with very user friendly fees.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:51 AM
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Thank you Jeppo! I enjoyed shooting with you!

Don't worry, it is only money. Look at it this way, you could be spending thousands on 1911s. And then thousands more getting one to run. Best regards, 18DAI
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:30 AM
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Funny, just yesterday I was talking to my LGS manager about a stainless Chief's Special. Back in Sept, 2015, I asked them to find a used 45 that gets traded in. They have my contact info on file.Then I thought I would accept a 9mm. But it's so close in size to my 3913, why bother. The most I would pay would be $400, because I would have to add the cost of stainless [flash chromed] 5906 trigger parts which would make the gun acceptable to me. But he told me they have never taken in a Chief's Special. But also, over the years, they have taken in some amazing trades, of which I have purchased a few. So I'm still waiting for a stainless CS45. GARY
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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18DAI and I have been down this road together before.......

As a big fan of the 3913/14/NLs I was excited when the CS9 was announced .......... looking forward to a sub-compact version of my favorite concealed carry gun since 1990.

When I finally saw/held one I was 'underwhelmed" to say the least......

As the owner of more than a few of the uncommon 7 round 39xx magazines with the flat steel bottom.....(which I'd been using for years as my primary carry magazine) the CS9 was as tall as my 3913NL with the 7 round magazine. With an 8round flat bottom spare mag.

The only grips available for years were the stock Hogue rubber...... while feeling good in my hand ...... I knew the rubber would tend to cling to my cover garment....... my 3913 wore checkered Hogue wood grips which were hand filling without clinging to my shirt/jacket.

While the barrel/slide were 1/2" shorter than my 3913's the slide is 'blocky" and IMO ugly compared to the 3913s. Further I carried mine IWB in Milt Spark's holster so the shorter barrel/slide had no practical effect. Also the slightly longer slide of the 39xx guns helps stabilizes it IWB.

Pocket carry in my Wrangler jeans has never been a practical carry option.

Weight difference was only about 1-2oz. IIRC.

All that said if I was starting from scratch; with today's options for grips and mag bases........ I would be tempted to go with the CS9 vs. the 3913/14/NL. Especially given that my first 3913 replaced my .380 PPK; and the CS9 would be closer in overall size to the PPK.

But with a primary 3913NL a backup..... and a backup to the backup..... along with a couple of 3914s........

For me like the 4516 (which was way too heavy ) the CS9 is a great gun ....... but doesn't quit meet my personal needs for a small single stack concealed carry 9mm .

If we all liked the same thing; we'd all be carrying the same gun!!!!!

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Old 06-14-2018, 01:36 PM
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Now you make me want to find a stainless CS9, have it dehorned, and use it to replace my Bersa Thunder 380CC.

Dang you!
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:38 PM
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Now you make me want to find a stainless CS9, have it dehorned, and use it to replace my Bersa Thunder 380CC.

Dang you!
That would be a great move................
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:19 PM
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Add me to the list of “this post is gonna cost me more money”.

Between this and seeing Mercs polishing job, I’m now on the hunt for stainless CS9 to dehorn and melt instead of the near mint blued one I lucked into a few weeks ago.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:53 PM
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Yep count me in for a blued one too. Had a hard time making up my mind back in 99 when I ordered the stainless. Can't explain it but they have a "special" look to em. Have never seen a used one up for sale in the LGS around me.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:08 PM
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Yep count me in for a blued one too. Had a hard time making up my mind back in 99 when I ordered the stainless. Can't explain it but they have a "special" look to em. Have never seen a used one up for sale in the LGS around me.
Iíve had a run of incredble luck locally the past couple of months.
Bought 5 guns that I havenít seen in person in years.
I have a post forthcoming about them.
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:21 PM
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I bought a CS9 a month ago. What a fantastic pistol. None of that Failure to feed or failure to eject or stovepipe stuff that has happened on my plastic pistols. My first DA/SA gun but so much better than a striker fired with or without a safety. It carries great and shoots better. The ultimate CCW pistol as far as i am concerned. Just doesn't get any better than that. I think it weighs less than 2 ounces more than my shield 9mm.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:10 PM
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Well get them while you can fellas! Its only money and you will make more. But barring something unforseen there wont be anymore CS9s or CS45s.

Shame too. Because if they would make a CS9, even the CS9D DAO model, they could sell a bunch of them. People come into the LGS where I work looking for small light weight 9mms. Quite a few of them ask about metal framed guns. A few for hammer fired metal framed guns. Everyone who examines or shoots my CS9 goes off to the auction boards in search of one.

And these days, there are some real deals on CS9s on one of the big auction boards. All stainless guns, so far. Some appear to be LE trade ins with Novak night sights. I only paid $355 for mine. I stole it.

And another aspect I forgot to mention about the CS9 is that it is a fun gun to shoot. Easy to get hits with, mild in recoil using range fodder 9mm. Ive yet to let anyone shoot it who didnt like it.

Great trigger, good accuracy and very reliable. And looks good doing all that too. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:03 AM
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I seem to be an anomaly, I don't love my CS9. The grip is too short and it's too chubby to carry comfortably, and I think the action is clunky. Gasp, heretic! Yeah, sorry.

However... I have NO plans to sell it. I don't dislike it enough to let it go, and I like DA/SA and 9mm.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:07 PM
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Great thread and discussion on one of my favorite 3rd Gen models! I own both a stainless and a blued CS9, and they replaced my Kahr MK9 for Summertime deep concealment. Both wear Trijicon SA29 night sights, and of course a set of my slim TercGen grips (along with some grip tape).

Completely agree with 18DAI's assessment of these fine pistols, they are accurate, light, have mild recoil, and are 100% reliable with all types of ammo I've tried. I personally go with the HST +P for carry, either in 124 or 147 grain. Good idea to stock up on recoil springs with these guns as well, as only S&W makes them and who knows for how much longer...
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Old 06-17-2018, 01:16 PM
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I think the shorter barreled 9mm like the heavier rounds more than the lighter ones. As I've noted before, my non rail 3913TSW shoots best with 147 grain, is acceptable with 124gr, but shoots very low with 115gr.

I'd have to evaluate the grips in the real world before I decided on what, if anything, I'd do with them.

I just have to keep my eyes open for one at a reasonable price.

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Great thread and discussion on one of my favorite 3rd Gen models! I own both a stainless and a blued CS9, and they replaced my Kahr MK9 for Summertime deep concealment. Both wear Trijicon SA29 night sights, and of course a set of my slim TercGen grips (along with some grip tape).

Completely agree with 18DAI's assessment of these fine pistols, they are accurate, light, have mild recoil, and are 100% reliable with all types of ammo I've tried. I personally go with the HST +P for carry, either in 124 or 147 grain. Good idea to stock up on recoil springs with these guns as well, as only S&W makes them and who knows for how much longer...
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:50 PM
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I think the shorter barreled 9mm like the heavier rounds more than the lighter ones. As I've noted before, my non rail 3913TSW shoots best with 147 grain, is acceptable with 124gr, but shoots very low with 115gr.

I'd have to evaluate the grips in the real world before I decided on what, if anything, I'd do with them.

I just have to keep my eyes open for one at a reasonable price.
For defensive shooting purposes at 18-25ft, I haven't noticed enough of a difference between 124gr and 147gr out of any of my guns. If I do my part, both weights stay within the black on the 5-bullseye targets, and both wind up where I want them to be when shooting faster on the ANT-4 silhouette targets.

I like the lighter 124gr in my guns for weight consideration if packed in my bag at work or tucked in my workout shorts going to the gym. I stoke 147gr other times when considering the fact that they will be sub-sonic if used indoors for hearing preservation.

With the sub-compact 3" barrels, I would only carry Federal HST (or Winchester RA9B, if I had any) in 147gr. Too many other types of 147gr have shown to be unreliable in online get tests out of 3" barrels.
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:09 PM
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Mine arrived at the shop Friday while I was working. It has Novak Night sights installed. BONUS! They are dim, but I can see them on the night stand in the dark. Which is about all the use I have for them.

The gun must have been issued to an administrator. Filthy dirty, but shot very little. Not even a mark on the tang from the hammer. It took me almost 2 hours to clean it.

Some holster wear and a little finish worn off under the slide stop. Good trigger in DA and SA. I replaced the recoil spring. The Hogue grip screws were not rusted, just caked with grime. They cleaned up nicely.

After cleaning and lubing I checked function with the pencil test. Cock the pistol, drop a number 2 pencil down the barrel - eraser first - decock the pistol and the pencil should not move. insures that the decock/safety functions. Then I fired two shots into the clearing tank to make sure it goes bang. Two bangs, no worries.

I will fire a couple of hundred rounds through it Tuesday on my way to work. Checking reliability and how accurate it is.

I am very pleased with this little stainless 9mm. A lot of gun for the money! Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:17 PM
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Uh, maybe you should stop at the range!

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Mine arrived at the shop Friday while I was working. It has Novak Night sights installed. BONUS! They are dim, but I can see them on the night stand in the dark. Which is about all the use I have for them.

The gun must have been issued to an administrator. Filthy dirty, but shot very little. Not even a mark on the tang from the hammer. It took me almost 2 hours to clean it.

Some holster wear and a little finish worn off under the slide stop. Good trigger in DA and SA. I replaced the recoil spring. The Hogue grip screws were not rusted, just caked with grime. They cleaned up nicely.

After cleaning and lubing I checked function with the pencil test. Cock the pistol, drop a number 2 pencil down the barrel - eraser first - decock the pistol and the pencil should not move. insures that the decock/safety functions. Then I fired two shots into the clearing tank to make sure it goes bang. Two bangs, no worries.

I will fire a couple of hundred rounds through it Tuesday on my way to work. Checking reliability and how accurate it is.

I am very pleased with this little stainless 9mm. A lot of gun for the money! Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:24 PM
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I will fire a couple of hundred rounds through it Tuesday on my way to work. Checking reliability and how accurate it is.
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Uh, maybe you should stop at the range!
Yes, I noticed that too.

I guess they do things a bit different from MA down in NC!
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
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Mine arrived at the shop Friday while I was working. It has Novak Night sights installed. BONUS! They are dim, but I can see them on the night stand in the dark. Which is about all the use I have for them.

The gun must have been issued to an administrator. Filthy dirty, but shot very little. Not even a mark on the tang from the hammer. It took me almost 2 hours to clean it.

Some holster wear and a little finish worn off under the slide stop. Good trigger in DA and SA. I replaced the recoil spring. The Hogue grip screws were not rusted, just caked with grime. They cleaned up nicely.

After cleaning and lubing I checked function with the pencil test. Cock the pistol, drop a number 2 pencil down the barrel - eraser first - decock the pistol and the pencil should not move. insures that the decock/safety functions.
Pictures, we want pictures.

Just in case another forum member were able to pick up a CS9 from the same source, in more or less the same condition, where should he/she focus those two cleaning hours? Was there a lot of work to be done on the barrel or was there something else major?

On my way this morning to the big-box office supply store. All I could find here was #3 pencils.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:03 AM
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I pocket carried the CS9 and CS45 for over 15 years with no problems. Fortunately, I have not even had to brandish them yet (Maybe big and ugly is good front line protection?), but they also are accurate and fun to shoot at the range. I think these guns were under rated during their production years. I still prefer them to the small polymer Guards and M&Ps. I hope that you enjoy safely carrying and shooting your CS9 (at the range).
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:09 PM
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Okay, some other random pics of mine ...

CS9


CS9 and G26


CS9 & 642


CS9 & 3913



CS45 in Hume H726
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:12 PM
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In first and last CS9 pictures, is that the pre rail 3913TSW magazine base plate? Or is it just the angle of the photo?

Thanks.
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:19 PM
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Good eye.

Yep, in the first pic (CS9) that's one of the original 3913TSW butt plates.

In the last pic (CS45) it's one of the original 4513TSW butt plates.

Just for the 9mm butt plates I've used ...

In this pic, from L-to-R, standard curved, standard flat, and original 3913TSW butt plate.


Standard flat and original TSW.


L-R, TSW, standard flat and standard curved.


Seated in gun ...

Standard flat.



Curved.


TSW/wide.
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:21 PM
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Thanks. The one thing I didn't like about the CS9 was the "hook" on the curved base plate. I always felt that it was causing my shirt to ride up.

Of course, in a pocket, that would be less of an issue.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:47 PM
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Jeppo the grip frame, mag well, backstrap under the grips, grips, grip screws, sear and sear pin are what took the most time to clean. The frame had black marks under the trigger guard and dustcover. They took a bit of time to clean too. But they came off.

Im pretty sure it was not dried coffee and powdered sugar, but it was a finegrime that adhered to......well....everything. And I found shavings and tiny pieces of that cheap "pleather" that Safariland use to use in the late 80s and 90s on their LE holsters. Well, they used it till agencies stopped buying them.

Someone wanted to see pics. Here they are. It is wearing the rounded TSW mag baseplate as that is the one that works for pocket carry, for me. The finger lift mag snagging on the draw. Again, for me. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:52 PM
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Wow, that came out nice!
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:26 PM
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I used a red colored penetrative CLP that we get from Nighthawk. Soaked it in that while I was at work.

Cleaned the barrel and slide with Breakfree and lubed with TW25b grease.

After the grips were clean I sprayed them with 409 and wiped them dry with a micro fiber towel. New recoil spring and its GTG.

Well........except for the outstanding TercGen grips that I have on order. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:31 PM
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Very nice.

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Old Yesterday, 11:21 AM
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I called the 1-800 number today. My stainless CS9 VJD serial prefix shipped in September 2001.

Doesn't look 17 years old. Looks pretty good for those many years. Regards 18DAI
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Mine should arrive Monday. Already carved out four hours that evening for cleaning (if it took you 2, I'll need at least twice as long).
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