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Old 06-26-2018, 05:19 PM
mikem mikem is offline
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Default Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing?

Hi,

Just wondering what you folks prefer for lubing your older semi-auto pistols.

Do you favor gun grease or gun oil or possibly something else?

I have a friend who uses 3-IN-ONE oil.

He once told me, "Keeping 'em clean is more important than the lube you use. You could probably use Wesson Oil if you keep a gun clean."

He may be right or he may be wrong. But I know one thing for a fact. All his firearms, and he has many, are in great shape.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:21 PM
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Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil. Been using it on all my guns for years.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:33 PM
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People have been beating this horse forever. Use what you prefer. I've used a bunch of them; they all worked.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:33 PM
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in a pinch, I'll use whatever is available but my preference is super lube. its a clear synthetic grease with PTFE and you can get it in 3 oz tubes at harbor freight or online. Before that I was using Grease, Rifle out of a green spam can, but that stuff gets real gummy when it gets cold, so much so that Garands need a clip or two to warm up.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
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People have been beating this horse forever.
Well shoot! I don't want to kill no horses.

Forget I asked, you guys.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:51 PM
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Get so confused I just use Breakfree CLP and maybe Hoppes.
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Old 06-26-2018, 05:57 PM
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Generally, if it slides grease it. If it turns oil it.

In a pinch one will be good for the other.
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Old 06-26-2018, 06:06 PM
mikem mikem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mauser9 View Post
Get so confused I just use Breakfree CLP and maybe Hoppes.
I'm with you. I find it confusing too.

They're just so many products out there, and of course, every damn one of 'em will tell you they're "the"best."

I specifically asked about the older semi-autos because they do have a lot of differences from those newer striker fired polymer things, and many more differences than revolvers or long guns.

I was thinking which was better for rails and then smaller parts like sears, extractors, pins and so on or if lubing a gun, any gun, is all the same.

Last edited by mikem; 06-26-2018 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:49 PM
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I was using grease for a while but it got so darn hard to clean the gun after I shot it I went back to oil..
Mostly Wilson synthetic gun oil..
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Old 06-26-2018, 07:53 PM
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On an aluminum frame Smith, synthetic grease. Gun oil does not adhere well to the frame.

I use TW25b and have had no problems. Grease the rails, barrel lugs, bell mouth at the muzzle of the barrel and the barrel hood. Remember that a dab will do ya. If it is colored grease - white or red - and you can see it on the rails and barrel, you used too much. Wipe the excess off with a Q-tip.

When properly applied you should see a sheen where it was applied. But no streaks or globs. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
On an aluminum frame Smith, synthetic grease. Gun oil does not adhere well to the frame.

I use TW25b and have had no problems. Grease the rails, barrel lugs, bell mouth at the muzzle of the barrel and the barrel hood. Remember that a dab will do ya. If it is colored grease - white or red - and you can see it on the rails and barrel, you used too much. Wipe the excess off with a Q-tip.

When properly applied you should see a sheen where it was applied. But no streaks or globs. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
I think we have the definitive answer here, particularly concerning those aluminum alloy frames!

Thank you.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:26 PM
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I would advise anyone interested in the proper application of grease to aluminum framed pistols to check out; "Florks lubrication thread" over on .....er....another board.

While dealing primarily with the lubrication of aluminum framed Sig pistols, the techniques illustrated are applicable to any aluminum framed handgun.

I use grease on my steel framed guns too. Cant hurt. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:49 PM
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Myself I use gun oils as any grease I have used always attracts dirt which I find builds up quicker then being lubed with oil. Dirt is my enemy with all my toys.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg4360 View Post
Generally, if it slides grease it. If it turns oil it.

In a pinch one will be good for the other.
Hmmmm... The pistons in my car slide, yet they are lubed with oil. The wheels in my car turn, yet they are lubed with grease.

Wut up wi'that???
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:59 PM
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I use Lubriplate 105, but as you and others have pointed, out just about any quality grease will do.

I lube the same areas that you mention, but I probably use more on the frame rails and lugs than do you.

I put a dab on the front of the frame rails on each side. Once assembled I cycle the slide several times. Then I wipe any excess from the back end of the slide.

It seems to work as there is no appreciable wear on the frame. And, as we all know with an alloy frame 3rd Gen, the one part that is likely to wear from under lubrication is the one that we can't get a replacement for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
On an aluminum frame Smith, synthetic grease. Gun oil does not adhere well to the frame.

I use TW25b and have had no problems. Grease the rails, barrel lugs, bell mouth at the muzzle of the barrel and the barrel hood. Remember that a dab will do ya. If it is colored grease - white or red - and you can see it on the rails and barrel, you used too much. Wipe the excess off with a Q-tip.

When properly applied you should see a sheen where it was applied. But no streaks or globs. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Hmmmm... The pistons in my car slide, yet they are lubed with oil. The wheels in my car turn, yet they are lubed with grease.

Wut up wi'that???
And you park in the driveway, and drive on the parkway...

As far as lube and cleaning, I use Froglube and love the stuff...but you need to use it as recommended, esp in cold weather. Froglube generates love and hate opinions...For me, it works, smells good, and is non toxic...basically it is coconut oil, with minor additives.
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:38 PM
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I agree with taking a little extra care with aluminum-frame guns. I like molysulfide-type grease on the frame rails, particularly with a new gun. With a steel-frame gun, your buddy may be right. Unless you shoot a lot and/or shoot very fast, probably any lube will do. I like LSA for my particular type of shooting. I also agree with your friend about keeping the gun clean. I’d worry a lot more about that than the type of lube used. JMHO.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:20 PM
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Thanks 18DAI now I know what I was doing wrong. Too much grease. I will now grease the rails on my aluminum frame pistols properly...
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem View Post
Well shoot! I don't want to kill no horses.

Forget I asked, you guys.
That horse ain't dead yet...it can take more of a beating than it's been given so far. Gun care is always a good topic.

I'm on the using both grease and oil team. Lubriplate has been good for me.
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Old 06-26-2018, 10:47 PM
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Lubriplate is a excellent product for many purposes but I find it will collect dirt too fast in the hard to reach places on my handguns. Oil pentrates deeper in my view. On my vehicles I use grease made for Marine use in my tie rod ends and ball joints. The nice aqua blue grease which is water repellant so they are never without grease at any time. Water does not push it out from all of the front end joints on all my trucks and cars both. Its more money but I get more out of it.
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Old 06-26-2018, 11:31 PM
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I like Tetra Gun Grease for all my guns. I'm in Florida, where it rarely gets below 60. But like the other guy said, use what you got. I was once in my friend's pizza joint, & he showed me a Glock he had laying around. I took it apart, & it was so dry, I had to do something. He had no gun lube, but being a pizza joint, he had olive oil. It worked great. GARY

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Old 06-26-2018, 11:49 PM
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I use Ultima Lube II from Wilson Combat. I bought the bottle of grease and a bottle of the oil. Wilson claims the grease is more for shotguns or bolt action rifles. The oil is more suited to handguns. I bought the bottles about 7 years ago and I still have about half of the oil bottle yet.

I watched a bearing test done by Wilson and no gun oil performed as well as the Ultima lube II. It only takes a few pinhead drops of oil on the slide rails. I cleaned and oiled two guys handguns at work and they were amazed how much smoother and easier their gun slides moved.

I think if I ever run out of Ultima Lube then I probably will try Mobile 1 synthetic motor oil.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:03 AM
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Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com
Fix you right up.
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:17 AM
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For grease I like Lucas or Loctite Viperlube and I've used copper or nickel anti sieze in a pinch. I've used TW25B but it always separated and became watery for me.

For oil I like a thicker viscosity oil like Hoppes Elite, Break Free L&P, or Mobil 1 5W-30. I tend to stay away from thin oils that don't stay in place like RemOil.

I may be crazy, but I think the container the product is in makes a difference. If the container doesn't seal well or the grease not able to be applied correctly, I tend not to keep it in the range bag or cleaning box and it might keep me from buying it again.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:15 AM
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For a short while I used Grease on 1911's ( just to experiment) however I did not like the unburnt powder residue and debris it picked up while shooting them. I went back to oil as I have used for most of my 40+ years of shooting Pistols.

NOTE:
Don't know all the pistols you guys own but I have never seen an instruction manual for a pistol that called for grease to be used. I have always seen "oil" as the specified lubricant. I am not saying no pistol manual specifies grease - I've just never personally seen one that did.

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Old 06-27-2018, 07:28 AM
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There are some guns I shoot every few years. I strip them before going to the range. If lubed them with oil 3 years ago, they are now dry. So if I oil them before going to the range, they are fine to shoot. But if I strip a greased gun that I haven’t shot in 5 years, the grease hasn’t disappeared. So to me, oil is fine if applied before shooting. But grease never disappears. Even after 5 years. GARY.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:00 AM
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On the older Smiths I do use grease on the rails, a small amount. Oil on all other parts. On the plastic stuff I just use oil, I think I've tried them all and can't say one is any better than the others. Any lube is better than no lube. Good luck in your search.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:58 AM
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First let me say that I don't own any semi-autos with aluminum frames. Having said that, the best lubricant that I have found that will stay on the rails is Tetra gun lubricant. There are other good lubricants out there but this has worked best for me..
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:02 AM
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Grease on the rails and lugs of the 3rd Gen guns is an insurance policy. Since the slides are either stainless or carbon steel, they are going to cause the alloy to wear, not the other way around.

I use grease as described by 18DAI in another post on my 3rd Gen. I use oil on my S&W revolvers because I'm not worried about excessive wear. I use grease on my Bersa semi auto, but could use oil as easily. The reason being that if something happened to the frame, I could send the gun in to a Bersa repair shop and get a new frame. Can't do that with a 3rd Gen, and if the listings on Ebay are any indication, there are a significant number of 3rd Gen frames wearing out.

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For a short while I used Grease on 1911's ( just to experiment) however I did not like the unburnt powder residue and debris it picked up while shooting them. I went back to oil as I have used for most of my 40+ years of shooting Pistols.

NOTE:
Don't know all the pistols you guys own but I have never seen an instruction manual for a pistol that called for grease to be used. I have always seen "oil" as the specified lubricant. I am not saying no pistol manual specifies grease - I've just never personally seen one that did.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:33 AM
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While I more or less agree with those who hint or say outright that they all work, I have kind of settled on two lubricants and one preservative. The preservative is RIG. It works. There are others.

The grease for some lube is RIG +P Stainless Steel lube. Despite the name, it can be used on pre-57 S&W revolvers, usually for lockwork. I first tried it when, at an LFI-2 course, my SS Gov't Model C*** started acting sluggish long before 100 rounds went through it. Cleaned it & lubed it, and it managed to limp through the rest of the course with nightly clean & lube. Started using that grease, sparingly, on sear and hammer and such. Big difference! The grease alone can drop trigger pull on a 1911 a pound or two, at least. Whenever I recommend it these days for such use, I caution that all safety checks should be repeated before putting the gun into service after using RIG +P SS lube.

A few years later, I had a very reliable and helpful gunsmith do a trigger replacement, charge hole chamfering and a few other things to a chopped 25-2. The gun came back with a slight hitch in DA mode, and lubed with Ed's Red, which was in style at the time. All I did was open up the revolver, remove all the oil, and lube it with RIG +P SS. The hitch disappeared. I believe that Brownell's markets a few "magic" products which work as well as the +P SS, but they are not quite as easy to apply.

I use CLP for cleaning and for lube where oil is called for. I might use one of the (many!) other good oils, but CLP seems to work well enough for C & L both. Probably for P, too, but RIG seems to stick better.

Sometimes I use Hoppe's #9 as a powder solvent and fouling remover, on my rifles. On pistols, I don't think it matters that much.

That's everything I know! Not much, but I think that most of it is correct.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:35 AM
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Well... when I was there we used, pretty much to my knowledge, nothing but a common motor oil and not a lot of it. A few drops on the rails /frame and slide, barrel lug and sides . Never on the inside components, just attracts grime.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:14 AM
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Mobil 1 as used in race and hi po cars everywhere.
Judging from most posters that own AL frame guns there’s no wear on safe queens. ymmv
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:23 AM
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I only use Royal Purple oil, no grease.
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Old 06-27-2018, 06:24 PM
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I have a slightly different take. My range guns get a very light viscosity grease on the rails, and barrell, lugs, spring. Lightly oil inside the frame anywhere that hinges, or rubs. This collects crud fairly easily when shooting, and wouldn't be advised for a carry gun used for self defense. And I wouldn't recommend it in a sandy area like Florida, or the desert. In those areas I'd go sparingly with a few drops of my favorite oil, and call it a normal wear item. Where I live, rust is the worst thing, and a good coating of oil along with regular cleaning keeps that away. I completely disassemble to clean, after each time I shoot. Lube it afterwards, to the point that it needs to be wiped down before firing again. The few pistols that I've bought new, show extremely little wear after hundreds of rounds. Compared to other new pistols that were lubed according to the owners manual. Stainless revolvers are another story altogether.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:51 PM
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Different lubes for different materials in slides and bushing area's. Certain moving parts benefit more from one or the other. Oil or Lube-Grease. Heat can be a major factor in any Handgun or long rifle as well. Thats where you need good Oil or grease to withstand the barrel heat at times..
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:26 AM
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Default "Nano" Technology

I'll put in my two cents on this subject as an old guy.

I have now gone with a new "Nano" technology product called "archoil AR4400 LP hexagonal boron nitride (h-BN)" the nano technology is also been called Cerflon. I like it because it's between an oil and a grease being sort of a "cream". This product is almost exactly the same, containing Cerflon, as a lubricant that Smith & Wesson marketed and sometimes provided with new guns a number of years ago. (I found that the manufacturer they had contracted decided it was not profitable for them to continue its manufacture for S&W). There is also a thinner product available called archoil 4200 that is a CLP that I sometimes use for cleaning and bore coating. The "Nano" beads of these products work their way into the pores of the metal and provide a continual lubricated surface. Using the AR 4200 product as a final bore cleaner (then removing the residue) has reduced leading on weapons I shoot lead bullets in.

The product is expensive and not marketed widely but can be found online at "dieselops.com".

Also, DON'T ever use WD-40 or anything like it. I learned this from experience having used it and had many problems with it gumming up after storing a weapon for any length of time.

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Old 06-28-2018, 12:02 PM
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Ballistol does it all!
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:08 PM
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While we're still at it how about lead removal from shotgun barrels. I do a lot of clay bird shooting and notice some lead build-up. let me know what "miracle" works best.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:27 PM
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If the moving parts have loose tolerances than I will likely use grease. My LCR rattles much less because I use a little grease in the action.

If the tolerances are tight or I need the lubricant to creep into a location, I'll use oil.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:07 PM
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While we're still at it how about lead removal from shotgun barrels. I do a lot of clay bird shooting and notice some lead build-up. let me know what "miracle" works best.
"While we're still at it .... ."

Still at what? Talking about preferred ways to lube firearms?

Am I missing something? Is lubing a firearm somehow related to removing residual lead from shotgun barrels?

Or is another attempted thread hijacking?

Just kidding, of course.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:07 AM
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Default Gun Oil

Clean and lubricate with Break Free CLP inside and out. Lubricate moving parts I have found the very best is Ambertech Sports Treatment. It is amazing.Thin coat to any metal, let set a week and it will keep fingerprints to almost none. Over time it will actually fade freckling on older guns. All natural will NOT harm ANY surface. Google Ambertech as it is hard to find. I buy it direct.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:35 PM
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Have you ever seen a "GUN OIL" refinery? Neither have I. If you want to spend $15.00 for 4 ounces of oil go right ahead, it's your money to waste. I got a quart of ATF for .90 cents and that was 30 years ago! I still got over 1/2 a can left and all my guns work just fine. Just saying!

Oh by the way, have you ever seen a auto transmission that was rusty in side, neither have I.
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:48 PM
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EXCELLENT reply. But there's always going to be someone who wants to buy the latest, & greatest boutique gun oil, like Frog Lube. $18.99 for 4 oz. GARY
FROGLUBE CLP LIQUID | Brownells

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Old 07-10-2018, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Hmmmm... The pistons in my car slide, yet they are lubed with oil. The wheels in my car turn, yet they are lubed with grease.

Wut up wi'that???
Application based on what will work best. Greasing the pistons wouldn't last and reapplying would be sporadic at best.Oiling wheel bearings would be tough because with heat oil becomes less viscous and more likely to leak.
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:15 PM
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Groo here
For CCW guns[no oil on pants-no lint in the gun past grease] ,grease, for auto slides grease, for revolvers or hard to get to places or as a mid-shooting flush ,,,oil. I have even used drippings from a dip stick.
We usually clean and lube too much.
Now, unless your gun got wet ,Very dirty[like fell in the sand or mud],
or started to malfunction or slow down in function, there is little need to
"clean" your gun all the time.
That is unless you shoot BP or surplus ammo [that will rust steel in a hart beat] modern powders and primers retard rusting...

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Old 07-10-2018, 04:37 PM
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Default Grease or Oil??? Well... YES!

Some of you fellows really need to go read Grant Cunningham's blog post on gun lubricants. I know I've posted it here on the forum a few times, it's excellent info and he's spot on. It's linked back up there in post #23. Eh, I'll just link it here again....
Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

Even more info on lubricants over at the Bob's the Oil Guy forum. I found this place years back while researching an alternatives for overpriced Harley Davidson engine oil. I run Shell Rotella in everything, bike, truck & tractor with no issues for many years now.
Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site

You know, oil is just oil. What I mean is what makes a lubricant good for a particular purpose is not the oil itself it's the additive package that's in the oil.

For example... Lubricants intended for use in an enclosed environment ie. engine crankcase, gear box, transmission, hydraulic systems et al. are generally poor choices for open air applications. They lack the additives to deal with oxidative breakdown of the base stock and are poor at corrosion prevention.

For firearms you want stuff that remains stable in open air thus contains anti oxidants, and also containing extreme pressure or anti wear additives and anti corrosion additives.

But but Bill... What about synthetic oil? Isn't that stuff super duper awesome better? Pffft naahh not for our purposes here. Synthetics are good for systems where there is a lot of heat & shearing action that tends to break the oil molecules into smaller and smaller pieces. Think gas turbine propulsion systems, high speed reduction gears, helicopter transmission and the like. For firearms it a waste of money. Even on engines it a waste of money IMO. Remember it's the additive package...whether you have synthetic oil or mineral oil in your engine it's going to get just as dirty just as fast either way and once the detergent additives (keeps dirt, wear metal and combustion products in suspension) are saturated or used up you begin to get gunk deposits, stuck lifters, clogged oil galleries and if you don't dump it and put clean oil in there you'll eventually be coughing engine parts out on the roadway somewhere.

But but Bill... What about all in one products, aren't CLP products just the cat's mewowww!??

OK, let me tell you what I think of CLP... Back around 1979 or so we (meaning us in Uncle Sam's Confused Group) had plenty of small arms and some not so small... M1911 and some M1911A1, M870, M16 & A1, M60, and M2 Browning. We happily went about cleaning our weapons with using these little GI tins of rifle bore cleaner. That stuff smelled great and did a fine job and even though it said POISON on the can, we were nominally smart enough not to drink any. When it came time to lube and preserve our weapons we used some other GI stuff called LSA and some milspec rifle grease uhhh Lubriplate 130A as I recall. Never had any huge issues with corrosion despite the worn thin park on most of those old WW2 and earlier vintage 45s that were frequently splashed, sprayed and dunked in tropical seawater.

It wasn't too long after for reasons beyond my ken that some DoD directive came down that all that stuff that worked was now unauthorized. I don't know why... maybe some Army kid ate some bore cleaner Anyway we were now under orders to perform all weapons maintenance with this new super duper all in one wonder product called Breakfree CLP. As I recall this was a published directive from HQ, all the old stuff that worked had to go to DRMO and you risked an Art. 92 problem if you used anything other than Breakfree for weapons maintenance. Well I suspect whomever invented that stuff had never heard of salt water. Rust and corrosion became a big issue right away. Weapons maintenance workload more than doubled. I swear you could take a M1911 coated with CLP, show it a picture of the ocean and it'd start to rust. I think it was all a plot to get rid of the M1911's and bring in the M9's. Oh yeah! that was a great idea Have these people ever heard of electrolysis? You know, galvanic corrosion? Lets see here.... open top slide so all kinds of rubbish can get in there. Then, you have carbon a steel slide on aluminum frame with various bit of steel for screws pins & springs, brass cases with copper jacketed bullets... not to worry we have Breakfree. Dunk that thing in seawater and you have a battery. One can imagine the aluminum fizzing away like an alka-seltzer tablet. Crew served weapons had it even worse when stowed mounted. M60, M2 or the MK16 20mm, we'd drench 'em with breakfree, I mean literally dripping and by morning they'd be a rusty mess. That stuff is useless in my opinion except for maybe cleaning off dried up WD40 gunk.

There are all kinds of "all in one" products in all manner of industries or markets and none of them perform as well as single purpose products.

You want to lubricate something...use a lubricant.
You want to clean something... use a cleaner.
You want to preserve something... use a preservative.

Yeah yeah Ok Fine Bill... I get it, so what do you recommend?

For preservation? Boeshield T-9, nothing better plus it's a respectable lubricant.

For cleaning? The old standby Hoppe's No.9. that stuff has been getting the job done forever and it smells wonderful

What about copper fouling? Any good ammonia base copper solvent will get it done. Hoppe's is good as is Butches bore shine. Also handy for wiping off the brass punch marks from driving a sight home.

Ah uh Lubricant Bill...Focus... OK OK, You know, I'm not so big on these little tiny bottles and syringes containing minuscule amounts of some compound alleged to have heretofore unknown magical properties. Often in my minds eye I spy a little minimum wage fellow sitting on a stool surrounded by oil barrels and armed with a turkey baster filling thousands of these little tiny containers from bulk. Somebody is laughing all the way to the bank. Ahh but I digress, sorry.

Lubricants... Depends on what I'm lubricating:

Slide rails, A light wiping of lubriplate 130A or SFL-0. Just a light thin film of grease no gobs. You can get a pound of either of those greases for $10 or so and will probably last you a hundred years.

Guiderods, same treatment.

Barrel camming lugs on aluminum frames are especially vulnerable to wear so I like to use a grease at the upper end high in EP/AW additives also with some tackifiers so it's somewhat sticky and stays put without migrating. So a little tiny dab of an NLG-2 greas that's high in Molybdenum-disulfide is best here. CRC's Sta-Lube Moly-Graph, Dupont Krytox GPL217, and Jetlube's marine moly are just a couple examples and except for the Krytox are pretty cheap. In the end any Moly based grease will do to afford you the best long term protection against wear of the camming lugs.

Lockwork, ie hammers & sear engagement surfaces, rebound slides, Brownells action lube plus.

Spinamathingies. ie. hammer, sear and trigger pins, a good GP gun oil

General purpose gun oil. Something that's intended for use in the open air, has EP/AW and anti corrosion additives. Pretty much any quality machine tool oil. I have a bottle of Mobil Velocite #6. It's high speed spindle oil for milling machines. Has all the desired properties and you can get a gallon for about 30 bucs that will last forever. I've been nursing the same pint bottle for about seven years, still appears full I think I'm gonna order a bottle of Velocite #10 for when I want a bit more viscosity. You can go to any industrial supply house, Mcmaster-Carr, Travers Tool, MSC Industrial and look up spindle oil regardless of brand you'll be good to go. Don't mix up way oil with spindle oil. Way oil is very high in tackifiers so it's sticky like honey, not desirable for a gun lube

In general, use these all sparingly. Excessive lube, whether grease or oil will migrate into areas where you don't want it. It will attract all manner of junk. That junk will stick to an mix with the lube forming a disgusting abrasive paste that's liable to jam up the works. Here's a hint... If your shooting glasses are spattered with lubricant, you put too much. And another, if you hand cycle the slide a bunch and now there's big gobs of grease coming out the back on either side of the hammer, you put too much. Ok I'm all done, gonna go take a nap now

Cheers
Bill
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Old 07-13-2018, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
Some of you fellows really need to go read Grant Cunningham's blog post on gun lubricants. I know I've posted it here on the forum a few times, it's excellent info and he's spot on. It's linked back up there in post #23. Eh, I'll just link it here again....
Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

Even more info on lubricants over at the Bob's the Oil Guy forum. I found this place years back while researching an alternatives for overpriced Harley Davidson engine oil. I run Shell Rotella in everything, bike, truck & tractor with no issues for many years now.
Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site

You know, oil is just oil. What I mean is what makes a lubricant good for a particular purpose is not the oil itself it's the additive package that's in the oil.

For example... Lubricants intended for use in an enclosed environment ie. engine crankcase, gear box, transmission, hydraulic systems et al. are generally poor choices for open air applications. They lack the additives to deal with oxidative breakdown of the base stock and are poor at corrosion prevention.

For firearms you want stuff that remains stable in open air thus contains anti oxidants, and also containing extreme pressure or anti wear additives and anti corrosion additives.

But but Bill... What about synthetic oil? Isn't that stuff super duper awesome better? Pffft naahh not for our purposes here. Synthetics are good for systems where there is a lot of heat & shearing action that tends to break the oil molecules into smaller and smaller pieces. Think gas turbine propulsion systems, high speed reduction gears, helicopter transmission and the like. For firearms it a waste of money. Even on engines it a waste of money IMO. Remember it's the additive package...whether you have synthetic oil or mineral oil in your engine it's going to get just as dirty just as fast either way and once the detergent additives (keeps dirt, wear metal and combustion products in suspension) are saturated or used up you begin to get gunk deposits, stuck lifters, clogged oil galleries and if you don't dump it and put clean oil in there you'll eventually be coughing engine parts out on the roadway somewhere.

But but Bill... What about all in one products, aren't CLP products just the cat's mewowww!??

OK, let me tell you what I think of CLP... Back around 1979 or so we (meaning us in Uncle Sam's Confused Group) had plenty of small arms and some not so small... M1911 and some M1911A1, M870, M16 & A1, M60, and M2 Browning. We happily went about cleaning our weapons with using these little GI tins of rifle bore cleaner. That stuff smelled great and did a fine job and even though it said POISON on the can, we were nominally smart enough not to drink any. When it came time to lube and preserve our weapons we used some other GI stuff called LSA and some milspec rifle grease uhhh Lubriplate 130A as I recall. Never had any huge issues with corrosion despite the worn thin park on most of those old WW2 and earlier vintage 45s that were frequently splashed, sprayed and dunked in tropical seawater.

It wasn't too long after for reasons beyond my ken that some DoD directive came down that all that stuff that worked was now unauthorized. I don't know why... maybe some Army kid ate some bore cleaner Anyway we were now under orders to perform all weapons maintenance with this new super duper all in one wonder product called Breakfree CLP. As I recall this was a published directive from HQ, all the old stuff that worked had to go to DRMO and you risked an Art. 92 problem if you used anything other than Breakfree for weapons maintenance. Well I suspect whomever invented that stuff had never heard of salt water. Rust and corrosion became a big issue right away. Weapons maintenance workload more than doubled. I swear you could take a M1911 coated with CLP, show it a picture of the ocean and it'd start to rust. I think it was all a plot to get rid of the M1911's and bring in the M9's. Oh yeah! that was a great idea Have these people ever heard of electrolysis? You know, galvanic corrosion? Lets see here.... open top slide so all kinds of rubbish can get in there. Then, you have carbon a steel slide on aluminum frame with various bit of steel for screws pins & springs, brass cases with copper jacketed bullets... not to worry we have Breakfree. Dunk that thing in seawater and you have a battery. One can imagine the aluminum fizzing away like an alka-seltzer tablet. Crew served weapons had it even worse when stowed mounted. M60, M2 or the MK16 20mm, we'd drench 'em with breakfree, I mean literally dripping and by morning they'd be a rusty mess. That stuff is useless in my opinion except for maybe cleaning off dried up WD40 gunk.

There are all kinds of "all in one" products in all manner of industries or markets and none of them perform as well as single purpose products.

You want to lubricate something...use a lubricant.
You want to clean something... use a cleaner.
You want to preserve something... use a preservative.

Yeah yeah Ok Fine Bill... I get it, so what do you recommend?

For preservation? Boeshield T-9, nothing better plus it's a respectable lubricant.

For cleaning? The old standby Hoppe's No.9. that stuff has been getting the job done forever and it smells wonderful

What about copper fouling? Any good ammonia base copper solvent will get it done. Hoppe's is good as is Butches bore shine. Also handy for wiping off the brass punch marks from driving a sight home.

Ah uh Lubricant Bill...Focus... OK OK, You know, I'm not so big on these little tiny bottles and syringes containing minuscule amounts of some compound alleged to have heretofore unknown magical properties. Often in my minds eye I spy a little minimum wage fellow sitting on a stool surrounded by oil barrels and armed with a turkey baster filling thousands of these little tiny containers from bulk. Somebody is laughing all the way to the bank. Ahh but I digress, sorry.

Lubricants... Depends on what I'm lubricating:

Slide rails, A light wiping of lubriplate 130A or SFL-0. Just a light thin film of grease no gobs. You can get a pound of either of those greases for $10 or so and will probably last you a hundred years.

Guiderods, same treatment.

Barrel camming lugs on aluminum frames are especially vulnerable to wear so I like to use a grease at the upper end high in EP/AW additives also with some tackifiers so it's somewhat sticky and stays put without migrating. So a little tiny dab of an NLG-2 greas that's high in Molybdenum-disulfide is best here. CRC's Sta-Lube Moly-Graph, Dupont Krytox GPL217, and Jetlube's marine moly are just a couple examples and except for the Krytox are pretty cheap. In the end any Moly based grease will do to afford you the best long term protection against wear of the camming lugs.

Lockwork, ie hammers & sear engagement surfaces, rebound slides, Brownells action lube plus.

Spinamathingies. ie. hammer, sear and trigger pins, a good GP gun oil

General purpose gun oil. Something that's intended for use in the open air, has EP/AW and anti corrosion additives. Pretty much any quality machine tool oil. I have a bottle of Mobil Velocite #6. It's high speed spindle oil for milling machines. Has all the desired properties and you can get a gallon for about 30 bucs that will last forever. I've been nursing the same pint bottle for about seven years, still appears full I think I'm gonna order a bottle of Velocite #10 for when I want a bit more viscosity. You can go to any industrial supply house, Mcmaster-Carr, Travers Tool, MSC Industrial and look up spindle oil regardless of brand you'll be good to go. Don't mix up way oil with spindle oil. Way oil is very high in tackifiers so it's sticky like honey, not desirable for a gun lube

In general, use these all sparingly. Excessive lube, whether grease or oil will migrate into areas where you don't want it. It will attract all manner of junk. That junk will stick to an mix with the lube forming a disgusting abrasive paste that's liable to jam up the works. Here's a hint... If your shooting glasses are spattered with lubricant, you put too much. And another, if you hand cycle the slide a bunch and now there's big gobs of grease coming out the back on either side of the hammer, you put too much. Ok I'm all done, gonna go take a nap now

Cheers
Bill
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:39 PM
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This is actually a silly statement. I'm not an oil refinery specialist, but my understanding is that there are a limited number of refineries that make the base oil that end manufacturers buy. Then specific manufacturers add their own components to make the final product.

Same with gasoline for that matter.

There are various types of ATF for that matter, each made to a specific specification. Put the wrong type in the wrong transmission and get out your credit card. It may work well as a firearm lubricant, but it certainly wasn't built for it.

I may not have seen a rusty automatic transmission, but I sure saw a lot that were burnt out in my automotive business days.

Gun oil does more than keep guns from rusting, but if that's your only criteria, sewing machine oil will work fine for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Cop View Post
Have you ever seen a "GUN OIL" refinery? Neither have I. If you want to spend $15.00 for 4 ounces of oil go right ahead, it's your money to waste. I got a quart of ATF for .90 cents and that was 30 years ago! I still got over 1/2 a can left and all my guns work just fine. Just saying!

Oh by the way, have you ever seen a auto transmission that was rusty in side, neither have I.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:41 PM
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I posted my little rant before I read this eloquent statement. Well done, BMCM, well done indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
Some of you fellows really need to go read Grant Cunningham's blog post on gun lubricants. I know I've posted it here on the forum a few times, it's excellent info and he's spot on. It's linked back up there in post #23. Eh, I'll just link it here again....
Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. - www.GrantCunningham.com Personal security training and advice - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

Even more info on lubricants over at the Bob's the Oil Guy forum. I found this place years back while researching an alternatives for overpriced Harley Davidson engine oil. I run Shell Rotella in everything, bike, truck & tractor with no issues for many years now.
Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site

You know, oil is just oil. What I mean is what makes a lubricant good for a particular purpose is not the oil itself it's the additive package that's in the oil.

For example... Lubricants intended for use in an enclosed environment ie. engine crankcase, gear box, transmission, hydraulic systems et al. are generally poor choices for open air applications. They lack the additives to deal with oxidative breakdown of the base stock and are poor at corrosion prevention.

For firearms you want stuff that remains stable in open air thus contains anti oxidants, and also containing extreme pressure or anti wear additives and anti corrosion additives.

But but Bill... What about synthetic oil? Isn't that stuff super duper awesome better? Pffft naahh not for our purposes here. Synthetics are good for systems where there is a lot of heat & shearing action that tends to break the oil molecules into smaller and smaller pieces. Think gas turbine propulsion systems, high speed reduction gears, helicopter transmission and the like. For firearms it a waste of money. Even on engines it a waste of money IMO. Remember it's the additive package...whether you have synthetic oil or mineral oil in your engine it's going to get just as dirty just as fast either way and once the detergent additives (keeps dirt, wear metal and combustion products in suspension) are saturated or used up you begin to get gunk deposits, stuck lifters, clogged oil galleries and if you don't dump it and put clean oil in there you'll eventually be coughing engine parts out on the roadway somewhere.

But but Bill... What about all in one products, aren't CLP products just the cat's mewowww!??

OK, let me tell you what I think of CLP... Back around 1979 or so we (meaning us in Uncle Sam's Confused Group) had plenty of small arms and some not so small... M1911 and some M1911A1, M870, M16 & A1, M60, and M2 Browning. We happily went about cleaning our weapons with using these little GI tins of rifle bore cleaner. That stuff smelled great and did a fine job and even though it said POISON on the can, we were nominally smart enough not to drink any. When it came time to lube and preserve our weapons we used some other GI stuff called LSA and some milspec rifle grease uhhh Lubriplate 130A as I recall. Never had any huge issues with corrosion despite the worn thin park on most of those old WW2 and earlier vintage 45s that were frequently splashed, sprayed and dunked in tropical seawater.

It wasn't too long after for reasons beyond my ken that some DoD directive came down that all that stuff that worked was now unauthorized. I don't know why... maybe some Army kid ate some bore cleaner Anyway we were now under orders to perform all weapons maintenance with this new super duper all in one wonder product called Breakfree CLP. As I recall this was a published directive from HQ, all the old stuff that worked had to go to DRMO and you risked an Art. 92 problem if you used anything other than Breakfree for weapons maintenance. Well I suspect whomever invented that stuff had never heard of salt water. Rust and corrosion became a big issue right away. Weapons maintenance workload more than doubled. I swear you could take a M1911 coated with CLP, show it a picture of the ocean and it'd start to rust. I think it was all a plot to get rid of the M1911's and bring in the M9's. Oh yeah! that was a great idea Have these people ever heard of electrolysis? You know, galvanic corrosion? Lets see here.... open top slide so all kinds of rubbish can get in there. Then, you have carbon a steel slide on aluminum frame with various bit of steel for screws pins & springs, brass cases with copper jacketed bullets... not to worry we have Breakfree. Dunk that thing in seawater and you have a battery. One can imagine the aluminum fizzing away like an alka-seltzer tablet. Crew served weapons had it even worse when stowed mounted. M60, M2 or the MK16 20mm, we'd drench 'em with breakfree, I mean literally dripping and by morning they'd be a rusty mess. That stuff is useless in my opinion except for maybe cleaning off dried up WD40 gunk.

There are all kinds of "all in one" products in all manner of industries or markets and none of them perform as well as single purpose products.

You want to lubricate something...use a lubricant.
You want to clean something... use a cleaner.
You want to preserve something... use a preservative.

Yeah yeah Ok Fine Bill... I get it, so what do you recommend?

For preservation? Boeshield T-9, nothing better plus it's a respectable lubricant.

For cleaning? The old standby Hoppe's No.9. that stuff has been getting the job done forever and it smells wonderful

What about copper fouling? Any good ammonia base copper solvent will get it done. Hoppe's is good as is Butches bore shine. Also handy for wiping off the brass punch marks from driving a sight home.

Ah uh Lubricant Bill...Focus... OK OK, You know, I'm not so big on these little tiny bottles and syringes containing minuscule amounts of some compound alleged to have heretofore unknown magical properties. Often in my minds eye I spy a little minimum wage fellow sitting on a stool surrounded by oil barrels and armed with a turkey baster filling thousands of these little tiny containers from bulk. Somebody is laughing all the way to the bank. Ahh but I digress, sorry.

Lubricants... Depends on what I'm lubricating:

Slide rails, A light wiping of lubriplate 130A or SFL-0. Just a light thin film of grease no gobs. You can get a pound of either of those greases for $10 or so and will probably last you a hundred years.

Guiderods, same treatment.

Barrel camming lugs on aluminum frames are especially vulnerable to wear so I like to use a grease at the upper end high in EP/AW additives also with some tackifiers so it's somewhat sticky and stays put without migrating. So a little tiny dab of an NLG-2 greas that's high in Molybdenum-disulfide is best here. CRC's Sta-Lube Moly-Graph, Dupont Krytox GPL217, and Jetlube's marine moly are just a couple examples and except for the Krytox are pretty cheap. In the end any Moly based grease will do to afford you the best long term protection against wear of the camming lugs.

Lockwork, ie hammers & sear engagement surfaces, rebound slides, Brownells action lube plus.

Spinamathingies. ie. hammer, sear and trigger pins, a good GP gun oil

General purpose gun oil. Something that's intended for use in the open air, has EP/AW and anti corrosion additives. Pretty much any quality machine tool oil. I have a bottle of Mobil Velocite #6. It's high speed spindle oil for milling machines. Has all the desired properties and you can get a gallon for about 30 bucs that will last forever. I've been nursing the same pint bottle for about seven years, still appears full I think I'm gonna order a bottle of Velocite #10 for when I want a bit more viscosity. You can go to any industrial supply house, Mcmaster-Carr, Travers Tool, MSC Industrial and look up spindle oil regardless of brand you'll be good to go. Don't mix up way oil with spindle oil. Way oil is very high in tackifiers so it's sticky like honey, not desirable for a gun lube

In general, use these all sparingly. Excessive lube, whether grease or oil will migrate into areas where you don't want it. It will attract all manner of junk. That junk will stick to an mix with the lube forming a disgusting abrasive paste that's liable to jam up the works. Here's a hint... If your shooting glasses are spattered with lubricant, you put too much. And another, if you hand cycle the slide a bunch and now there's big gobs of grease coming out the back on either side of the hammer, you put too much. Ok I'm all done, gonna go take a nap now

Cheers
Bill
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:53 PM
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Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing? Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing? Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing? Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing? Gun grease OR gun oil for lubing?  
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Default The only thing.......

The only place that gets greased on my guns is guide rails on my pump shotgun.

I did use white lithium in the big sliding bolt on my Kel Tec sub 2000 but cleaning inside the stock tube is a lot harder with grease. I just resolved to oil the bolt more often.
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