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Old 07-04-2018, 06:56 AM
potentpoefie potentpoefie is offline
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Default SW1911 9mm Pro Series Accuracy

Hi guys

I've had a love affair with the S&W 9mm Pro Series. Sku: 178017. I might be stupid but not a fan of adjustable sights. Yes, this pistol will mainly be used for IPSC Classic division minor power factor so an adjustable rear sight makes sense but I just don't like the look of it and secondly I can't really replace it without having this big chunk of my slide still missing.

Anyway my concern has arrived from some guys that went to the world shoot last year for handgun and shooting classic division. Apparently they are renowned to not hold a good grouping at anything over 20 yards. I find that surprising but then again the shooter in question is a former world champion and his pistol it seems just didn't want to group at all.

Is this common with these pistols or did he just happen to end up with the "Friday afternoon" (you know where the gunsmith just wanted to go have a weekend) gun?

I'd be interested to hear your feedback on the matter.
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:37 AM
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I like the pistol as well. Whats your idea of "good group". 9mm isn't known for bullseye accuracy.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:17 AM
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I'm not looking for 2 inch groups at 50 yards but it should be able to do 2 inches at 25 yards at least. Mechanically that is. So from a ransom rest or something like that.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:18 AM
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I have one and have mentioned here before my dissatisfaction with it. I am no champion shooter so I am speaking only of my perception as a casual target shooter. My gun has been back to S&W and it was returned no better than when it left. It consistently throws flyers, usually high and left, or just high. In all other ways, itís a nice pistol, but as far as accuracy goes it needs to go to someone who can properly install a better barrel, Iíd guess. Iíd rather do that than trade the gun because otherwise I like it.

As to the adjustable sight, you could mount a reflex sight in that slot. For my use, I like the adjustable sight and bought that model on purpose. Itís also available with fixed-sight.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potentpoefie View Post
I'm not looking for 2 inch groups at 50 yards but it should be able to do 2 inches at 25 yards at least. Mechanically that is. So from a ransom rest or something like that.
Iíd be satisfied with that! Sometimes my gun will shoot a 7-incher. If you could take away the flyer you might have 2-inches.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:24 AM
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Thing is, here in South Africa, the barrel is a licensed part and to have another barrel fitted will cost me another 3 months in waiting time just to get another license for a new barrel.
Although that's probably not the worst thing since I'll have the original barrel to use while I wait on the new license.

However with that kind of outlay wouldn't I just be better off with another 9mm 1911?
Or are the other features (and the look of it) worth just going through all the effort. I must say I do like the external extractor. Yes, I know. I know. Heresy but what can I say. After having a lot of issues with my first 1911's extractor and tuning it I'm just a fan of having the external extractor.
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Old 07-04-2018, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Iíd be satisfied with that! Sometimes my gun will shoot a 7-incher. If you could take away the flyer you might have 2-inches.
With only 1 flyer I'm sure it would be fine. Not like I'm the best shot either but I guess the idea is by the time I get to be very accurate I would like to have my rounds count and not have some random flyer that might hit a penalty target. A miss is kind of ok because you can take a make up shot but a penalty target is punishing.

That being said lately I've been hitting mostly A's and some C's and nothing else with my 929 so there is hope for me yet. Now just to crank up the speed because for all this accuracy I'm shooting really slow.

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Old 07-04-2018, 09:21 AM
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OP, you may also want to consider a Springfield Armory "Range Officer" pistol in 9mm. It is a 1911-style gun and gets good marks for accuracy right out of the box! From what I can see, it is also less expensive than the S&W (at least here in the US). Although I am a dedicated S&W fan (I have far more S&W's than anything else), I am considering buying a Range Officer myself. There are several threads on this pistol on the Bullseye-L forum. Good luck with your purchase!

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Old 07-04-2018, 09:41 AM
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I like the pistol, but the flyer problem has got to be fixed. And I donít always just get one. Sometimes two. It could be a fitting problem (probably is), but if it requires a new barrel to fix the fitting problem, so be it. The gun itself is very nice - a lot jazzier looking than the Springfield. But handsome alone doesnít cut it.
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:44 AM
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I think a 2" group at 25 yards with a 9mm is asking a lot from a 1911 pattern pistol. There are better choices, but also at a cost. My opinion only.
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:40 AM
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I think a 2" group at 25 yards with a 9mm is asking a lot from a 1911 pattern pistol. There are better choices, but also at a cost. My opinion only.
You make it sound that 1911's are inherently inaccurate?
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kas9412 View Post
OP, you may also want to consider a Springfield Armory "Range Officer" pistol in 9mm. It is a 1911-style gun and gets good marks for accuracy right out of the box! From what I can see, it is also less expensive than the S&W (at least here in the US). Although I am a dedicated S&W fan (I have far more S&W's than anything else), I am considering buying a Range Officer myself. There are several threads on this pistol on the Bullseye-L forum. Good luck with your purchase!

kas
I hear you. A big S&W fan myself. I'm going through a Beretta phase again. Started with them. I mean I grew up with Die Hard and Lethal Weapon and second to S&W, Beretta firearms occupy the most of my safe space.
However Beretta doesn't have a 1911 and that's what I'm in the market for.

Funny enough I looked at the Springfield. However as far as I know we don't have anyone in SA that brings in Springfields.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:10 AM
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You make it sound that 1911's are inherently inaccurate?
Apparently you didn't read the whole sentence. It's not the pistol, it's the calibre (9mm)

Even the best bullseye pistols chambered in 9mm struggle to retain a 2" group at 25 yards. Your standard 9mm 1911 won't be seen on the shooting line of a bullseye event. I would class the Pro Series as a standard pistol.

Shooting a 1911 chambered in 9mm is very pleasant. They are soft shooting and fun to plink with, ammunition is fairly inexpensive. I have Colt Competition Model in 9mm. It's fun to shoot but it's not a bullseye pistol and I wouldn't expect bullseye accuracy from it.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:24 AM
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I had one several years ago when they first came out. I used it in action pistol and IDPA competition and found it to be accurate and very fast shooting. Never shot it out of a mechanical rest to check accuracy but it was plenty accurate for the pistol games I was shooting it in.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 824tsv View Post
...Even the best bullseye pistols chambered in 9mm struggle to retain a 2" group at 25 yards. Your standard 9mm 1911 won't been seen on the shooting line of a bullseye event. I would class the Pro Series as a standard pistol.
I was not aware of that. On the contrary, 9mm 1911s seem to shoot VERY well (much better than 2-inches at 25-yards) with good ammunition, and a good, properly fitted barrel. But as you say, such a pistol probably couldn’t necessarily be obtained by randomly buying a Springfield or an S&W Pro Series off the shelf. Nevertheless, a flyer or two that consistently takes what could be a very nice group out to 7-8 inches at 25-yards cries out to be fixed!

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...Shooting a 1911 chambered in 9mm is very pleasant. They are soft shooting and fun to plink with, ammunition is fairly inexpensive. I have Colt Competition Model in 9mm. It's fun to shoot but it's not a bullseye pistol and I wouldn't expect bullseye accuracy from it.
That’s a nice looking Colt. I have a friend who owns one and he likes it. I’d call it “a mediocre shooter” but if you ask us both to produce a 5-shot group his Colt (at 3-4 inches) is likely to beat my S&W. The Colt not does produce flyers.

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Old 07-05-2018, 09:08 AM
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For the O.P.
I based my opinion on personal experiance. A cursory check on the web turned up a few side by side comparisons on pistol accuracy. Check the link, 9 of the 11 of these pistols are chambered in 9mm. No 1911's. Most are higher end.
I love the 1911 and own several. I also have a S&W (SW1911PC) that certainly shoots better than I'm capable of, but it's a .45ACP.

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Old 07-05-2018, 09:19 AM
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Well 2" might be a bit much to ask then but I guess I would still like it to group. By the sounds of it M29since14's pistol has the same issue as this guy I originally spoke with.

If it can't group then it will do me no good. I mean the nature of IPSC is not bull's eye shooting. In fact I'll probably hamper a 2" gun more than anything else but I should at least be able to hold a group.

I can get the Colt Competition here. Not the stainless one (which I'm a fan of) but the blued one for about $1747. Yes, twice the price but it has to come over the water. The joys of not having the factory in your own country.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:32 AM
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Yes, living outside of the U.S. if you are a firearms enthusiast is hard on the wallet. I know.....

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Old 07-05-2018, 11:28 AM
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The Bullseye gunsmiths and competitors found that 9mm will shoot better groups than 45 at 50 yards at the cost of more recoil. Recoil control becomes a factor in Timed and Rapid Fire.

A sample thread from a Bullseye forum: 9mm or .45 for NMC 300

In a recent competition I got to see a military team shooter shoot a 10X in Timed Fire using a 9mm 1911 with a frame mounted red dot.
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:36 AM
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I have no doubt at all about a 1911 being worked over enough to shoot very accurately. We are talking about a new out of the box-no modifications SW Pro Series here though.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:53 PM
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Worked over 9mm 1911s do shoot well...

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Old 07-05-2018, 02:37 PM
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Yes they do, but at a cost.
$3000+
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:49 PM
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Apparently you didn't read the whole sentence. It's not the pistol, it's the calibre (9mm)

Even the best bullseye pistols chambered in 9mm struggle to retain a 2" group at 25 yards. Your standard 9mm 1911 won't be seen on the shooting line of a bullseye event. I would class the Pro Series as a standard pistol.

Shooting a 1911 chambered in 9mm is very pleasant. They are soft shooting and fun to plink with, ammunition is fairly inexpensive. I have Colt Competition Model in 9mm. It's fun to shoot but it's not a bullseye pistol and I wouldn't expect bullseye accuracy from it.
824tsv:

In the above post you say itís not the pistol itís the caliber. When somebody later in the thread shows you an incredibly accurate 9 mm. You say well I was talking about the gun. So which is it? 9mms are inaccurate or 1911s are inaccurate? Because I donít think either are inaccurate. I have a SW Pro 1911 in 9 mm. I donít think it is inaccurate at all compared to any production gun. And it is easier to shoot accurately than many guns due to a heavy weight, excellent sights and the 9mm cartridge.
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Old 07-05-2018, 04:17 PM
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I didn't say that 1911's are inaccurate at all. The thread is drifting away from it's original question.
The O.P. is looking for a box stock 1911 pistol that shoots a 2" group at 25 yards chambered in 9mm and was interested in the Pro Series 9mm with fixed sights.
I've never seen a 1911 chambered in 9mm consistantly shoot a 2" group at 25 yards. I'm not talking about a high end pistol, like is featured in the above video. I'm talking about an affordable "standard" production-not highly customized and tweaked expensive variety.
If you know of one, please share.

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Old 07-06-2018, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
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I didn't say that 1911's are inaccurate at all. The thread is drifting away from it's original question.
The O.P. is looking for a box stock 1911 pistol that shoots a 2" group at 25 yards chambered in 9mm and was interested in the Pro Series 9mm with fixed sights.
I've never seen a 1911 chambered in 9mm consistantly shoot a 2" group at 25 yards. I'm not talking about a high end pistol, like is featured in the above video. I'm talking about an affordable "standard" production-not highly customized and tweaked expensive variety.
If you know of one, please share.
You are correct. I wanted to know about an out of the box SW1911 9mm. M29since14 seems to have the same issue that my friend had that got me concerned to start off with.

Maybe 2 inches is too much to ask for but I don't want 7 inch groups because of mechanical flyers not human error. Cause that means the pistol cannot group. Which is the case with my friend's pistol. Look he has the resources and pretty much rebuilt the gun to the point that all that was left original was the frame.

I'm not keen to do that. I just want to know if these non-grouping guns are the exception rather than the rule. We have too few SW1911's in 9mm here to really find out. In fact I only know of this one guy that has one so far. Hence me asking you guys since I figured there must be more sold on your side.

The Sig 9mm 1911 gets all the votes in our National Team's Classic team. I'm sure it is a fine pistol but I'm a Smith fan and I'd rather go with the that. I find it better looking anyway. Not that looks count for everything but it is a factor.

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Old 07-06-2018, 01:39 PM
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potentpoefie,

You may be able to find some low cost accuracy improvement in the slide stop pin dimensions and the barrel bushing. Using drill bits as pin gauges you can see what size pin fits and improves lower lug contact and lock-up before thumbing through the Brownell's catalog for parts. EGW does a good job on barrel bushings. Also examine the barrel crown carefully.

On Bullseye pistols rear hood fit in the top of the breachface gives accuracy improvements. Slide fit to frame doesn't do as much as most people believe.

These are just a few quick notes. Accuracy tuning 1911s is a deep rabbit hole due to age of the platform and the work of the military teams to wring out accuracy for their competition teams using service type pistols. The same tuning was done when the Berretta M9 was issued and now the SIG P320 is being refined.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
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Thing is, here in South Africa, the barrel is a licensed part and to have another barrel fitted will cost me another 3 months in waiting time just to get another license for a new barrel.

...
A common practice in the past was to weld up the rear hood of the barrel and refit it to the slide.

Good ammunition helps. I found recently that Fiocchi 115g 9mm FMJ shot to call at 25 yards in my recently acquired Glock. Attached is ten shots on a NRA B-8 target shot standing at a Slow Fire pace with two hands. I gave this target to my first shooting instructor. Once I get used to the trigger I think I will be able to hold the ten ring. When I get some Atlanta Arms Elite ammunition I want to see how it shoots at 50 yards.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:31 AM
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Well I think I might just pull the trigger on the purchase and roll the dice. Maybe I get lucky and my gun can group. It seems after all the replies we only had one member really that had this issue.

This of course doesn't mean it is only limited to his pistol but oh well. Nothing in life is certain.

But then I look at the Sig Match Elite and it is pretty much a 2" gun right out of the box with all kinds of ammo. That's basically 2" at 25 yards. Look at the accuracy tests at the end of the video.


That from a $1000 pistol. Well just over. Cheaper than the S&W.

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Old 07-10-2018, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
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I think a 2" group at 25 yards with a 9mm is asking a lot from a 1911 pattern pistol. There are better choices, but also at a cost. My opinion only.
My STI Trojans in 9mm are easily capable of 2Ē groups at 25 yards. If I worked at all on developing an accurate load, either one would probably do better.
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