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  #51  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:05 AM
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OP post:
Getting Sick of Guys With Plastic Pistols...

Yes, and the plastic pistol guys are getting sick of the old geezer who only totes around steel stuff (me).
Plastic is plastic, steel is steel, and apparently never the twain shall meet.... But there is neither Polymer nor Steel, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth, When two strong men stand face to face, tho’ they come from the ends of the earth!
My sincere apologies to Rudyard Kipling.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:18 AM
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I used to be a Glock nut. At one time I had about 30 of them (different calibers, gen numbers etc.). I woke up one morning and decided as a collector that I had 30 pieces of junk. I dumped the whole works and switched to S&W Model 41s, 46s and 52s. I'm still looking for a fine 952. I have never regretted my decision. However, I have to admit that I still have two plastic toys, which I plan on selling.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:46 AM
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To me, a S&W handgun has the very deep mirror like bluing and wooden grips. Nothing can beat the quality which each of these blued beauties possess. I have absolutely no desire to get a 3rd. Gen. S&W. I have ventured into the 2nd. Gen. Smith's with my 645 and 659 but they are the only ones and as far as I'm concerned, there nothing which can surpass the 1st. Gen. S&W handguns! Nothing beats a 27, 29, 41, 52, etc.
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  #54  
Old 07-11-2018, 09:21 AM
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The problem is that you nuts think of handguns as pieces of art instead of the tools they are. You have a problem.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:38 AM
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Just a side note here. Looking at the cars above....I think cars a so boring these days. Did you ever notice that the least expensive cars look just as good and similar to the expensive BMW or Mercedes parked next to them? They are all streamlined and BORING! No class whatsoever. And yes, plastic guns are the same. I own 2 plastic guns and carry both of these boring guns so that if I ever need to use them, I will not care if they are taken from me as evidence.

I prefer steel for home defense and range work and drooling haha
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  #56  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobysnacker View Post
No, but if you had one in good running condition with body intact, I'd take it off your hands.

tell me, which do you prefer?





or






The pony and the 39.
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  #57  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:32 PM
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A new ZL1 Camaro will TOTALLY outperform even a 69 427 COPO Camaro, & have factory A/C to boot. But the new car is not a classic, even though acceleration, handling, & braking is so much better. There is a place for polymer guns. If you were carrying a nice S&W 645, & had to take care of Homie D. Clown who tried to carjack you coming out of the mall, it would suck to lose the 645 to the police evidence room for a year, even if you did get it back. But I wouldn't lose a moment of sleep if my Walther P99c ended up there. I'd run out the next day, & replace it for $339, brand new. So yes, they do have their place. GARY

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  #58  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:58 PM
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...never trust those plastic gun guys...

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  #59  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:20 PM
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I love Rolex Stainless Submariners. But my Timex Ironman makes a lot more sense if I want a watch as a tool.
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  #60  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:27 PM
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Rifmon, if you think today's cars are "boring" you are not paying attention.
The American muscle car is back, better than ever. Take a Hellcat for a spin sometime. There are many new American and Euro offerings that can make a car enthusiasts wallet thin as a wafer.
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  #61  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:30 PM
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No plastic guns for me. I guess if someone gave me one, I would keep it until I could trade it off. But, plastic vs metal, semi vs revolver, it's the same reason there is always more than one horse in a race, we all have an opinion.
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  #62  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:41 PM
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"Marian, a gun is just a tool...."
See, I quoted a movie Western so that ends all debate.
Semiautos? Plastic wins.
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  #63  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
You would think with CRC, precision casting, ect that some nice
Pistols and revolvers could be made at a reasonable price. The
most over looked type of handguns are field guns.
Okay. What's a handgun "field gun?"

Can you give a few examples?

Thanks.

Last edited by mikem; 07-11-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt C. View Post
I find it comical when a striker fired pistol is said to have "a good trigger."
They do whether you like it or not. I am much safer out on the street with my Springfield XD Mod 2 striker-fired 45 than with my 1911. The striker-fired weapons fire extremely fast and a volley of shots can be fired faster than the 1911. High capacity mags make it safer also. The Mod 2 is surprisingly more accurate than my 1911, again safer in a gunfight. Additionally there is no safety so you don't have to be concerned about disengaging the safety. It is pull and shoot, simple.
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  #65  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:05 AM
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This generation cannot be blamed for the poly guns.In fact it was our generation that dropped a lot of revolvers for the wonder nines in the mid 1980's. The reason current shooter are not fans of craftsmanship is because there is none that is at least affordable to many younger shooters. Myself.. I'm tired of searching gun shops for decent used revolvers.I don't have enough patients to do gun auctions.I have more 1911's then I need.Plastic very well could be my next purchase since Rossi handguns are no longer sold in the US.
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  #66  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
I'm glad there are no engraved plastic pistols. Engraving is gaudy on any pistol. Looks good on a hunting shotgun or rifle, though.
Men have been engraving their arms for generations, all the way back to Achilles and perhaps before. Virgil even describes (with 20/20 hindsight) the arms and shield of Aeneas, forged by Vulcan himself, who also created Achilles' armor.



I can't help it. I love engraved arms, but not for using. For collecting. But some guns lend themselves to it more than others. If I ever got a shot at a mint S&W 66-no dash, I certainly wouldn't engrave it as it's a work of beauty in itself.

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Originally Posted by StephenWhoDat View Post
I'm currently up to two dozen of these fine examples of true craftsmanship. I even carry a 3rd gen. While my appreciation for these beauties is higher than most, I'm also only 34, so there is hope for future generations to appreciate them.
Hate to break this to you, but when you hit 65 (like me), you're suddenly going to sit up in bed one night and realize, "Oh, sheeeeit...I'm not gonna be able to take 'em with me when I go!" (It's going to happen pretty quickly, turning 65 that is.) Ten years go pretty quickly as you get older. Then who are you going to leave 'em to? Some kid who's going to sell your Model 5906 so he can get a Glock? Heaven forbid!


The movie SNEAKERS featured a S&W 659.

Most people here tend to like their 5906s and there's nothing wrong with that. You like your 3rd gen and that's fine, but the later models with the black hammers and triggers have little appeal to me. And few people hear sing the praises of the 2nd gen pistols, which is a pity because the old 659s are actually more desirable than the 5906s as far as I'm concerned. I have a nice 5906 and wouldn't trade it for a 659, but only because I have two 659s and wouldn't trade either of 'em for a 5906. I see a lot of 659s on television and in movies, and that because they're beautiful. I have a 3906 and love it, but if someone offered me a 639 for it, I'd trade it in a heartbeat!
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  #67  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:15 AM
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IMO plastic has its place - I own 4 poly-framed bottom feeders.
They are good utilitarian tools - SD carry guns.

BUT, the all metal guns are the ones I love - either steel or even alloys.
I'm a glass half full guy, so the more that the younger set turn their up noses at the metal frames in favor of plastic, the more of the classic all-metal guns there are available for me to buy - and at reduced prices too!

They get what they want and I do too. WIN-WIN!
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  #68  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:17 AM
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I'd say that yes, all guns are both tools and 'art' to us. Otherwise, why, if you already have a couple functional, capable weapons, would you want more? I've never thought "man, I can never have enough ratchets. I need them in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 drives, in chrome, black, and stainless. With backups for each. And examples of each of the major brands, as well as some of the hard-to-get ones".

Re my car analogy- the cars I showed in the 2nd option (with the Glocks) were inexpensive, widely praised as reliable, had good gas mileage, and otherwise served to fulfill most of the major daily purpose of a vehicle. They'd run forever if you just did basic maintenance, and you could get parts and stuff anywhere. Someone posted an alternate response and mentioned 'performance'. If you absolutely NEEDED a car, you'd be far better served with one of those.

But as my question asked, which one do you want and prefer?
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmerThanYou View Post
Rifmon, if you think today's cars are "boring" you are not paying attention.
The American muscle car is back, better than ever. Take a Hellcat for a spin sometime. There are many new American and Euro offerings that can make a car enthusiasts wallet thin as a wafer.
I admit I fit the description of one who is not paying attention to cars as a car enthusiast. I just am commenting on the average costly cars I see in the supermarket and office parking lots, sitting next to the average economy car. To me they look too similar. When I was young, an expensive car looked more expensive than a less expensive car. Maybe what I'm seeing is the result of cars being designed to reduce drag and therefore producing the same boring shape. While I'm not into cars as I am firearms, I do appreciate vintage cars with character vs the bubbles on wheels we see today.

But if I were into cars I would more aware of the cars you're referring to.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargater View Post


Hate to break this to you, but when you hit 65 (like me), you're suddenly going to sit up in bed one night and realize, "Oh, sheeeeit...I'm not gonna be able to take 'em with me when I go!" (It's going to happen pretty quickly, turning 65 that is.) Ten years go pretty quickly as you get older. Then who are you going to leave 'em to? Some kid who's going to sell your Model 5906 so he can get a Glock? Heaven forbid!

Man... Way to ruin my day! Haha! You make a great point. Perhaps I'll start selling them off when I reach your age. Since I don't plan on having kids myself, I honestly have no clue who I'd leave them to. Most likely my much younger brother-in-law who, fortunately, would probably sell them to get Sigs and not Glocks! You've really left me a lot to think about here, sir.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:59 PM
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Metal guns have a chance to make a real comeback because Plastic guns are going to have a real falling out!
My theory relies on our ecological friends who are banning plastic like crazy here in UK and Europe. Many stores will no longer sell plastic grocery bags, Starbucks is banning plastic straws in the USA too. With a little push from some energetic "Save the Planet" groups we could probably get a plastic gun ban campaign going in no time!! Then metal guns would have to be produced. What a world!
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:03 PM
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I was at the range yesterday with the wife. She was shooting the S&W 1911 and I had the plastic fantastic. I've worked on it for a while and finally have it shooting fairly well. Regardless of that, the wife got tired and I finally got to shoot my favorite. What I like about the all metal guns is how they feel and by that I am not talking about weight or balance. I am talking about how you can feel the mechanical movement of the gun parts. The trigger pull, the actual firing of the bullet, the slide as it comes back ejecting the spent casing, the slide moving forward as it chambers another round. I love that. I love to hear the action as it works, the clack of metal as it moves and locks. It is something that the plastic fantastic lacks to me. The 1911 may be clunky and chunky and isn't the smoothest action for a semi-automatic but it has a character that is unique.

Well, that's my opinion. I may be wrong.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:15 PM
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I don't particularly like plastic pistols but in the Age of the Slob the wise vendor offers a product with mass appeal.
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbliss57 View Post
Metal guns have a chance to make a real comeback because Plastic guns are going to have a real falling out!

My theory relies on our ecological friends who are banning plastic like crazy here in UK and Europe. Many stores will no longer sell plastic grocery bags, Starbucks is banning plastic straws in the USA too. With a little push from some energetic "Save the Planet" groups we could probably get a plastic gun ban campaign going in no time!! Then metal guns would have to be produced. What a world!


Do you think manufacturers will make steel guns or will it be left to what’s already made?


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Old 07-12-2018, 07:33 PM
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I have love for innovation and engineering as much as craftsmanship and aesthetics. I vividly remember when the Glock was a new revolution and am still fascinated by firearms design of all types.
I’ve never owned a polymer handgun but I have shot many over the last 25+ years.
No doubt they are fantastic feats of engineering and most are excellent tools.
Been eyeing that new M&P 3.6” compact.
Also the Sig P365 feels great in hand. Haven’t shot one yet but it may end up as my wife’s new carry gun if the teething issues get resolved.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:12 PM
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First time I shot a CZ75 was the end of 3rd gen S&Ws for me.
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:32 PM
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I have many guns, steel and polymer...they each have a soul, and I love them all.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
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First time I shot a CZ75 was the end of 3rd gen S&Ws for me.
My CZ75D Compact just vaulted to the head of my 9’s.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:13 AM
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Plastic is for knobs , you can quote me on this . Pass it on and stop the cheaponing of of something America does best .
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:25 AM
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Plastic guns are practical price wise a machined alloy frame is much more costly. They have been proven to be reliable & accurate. They can last a long time with normal maintenance. With all the attributes that they have I have still not been able to force myself to purchase one yet. When I decided I thought I needed a high capacity gun for bought a Sig p226 legion SAO. It’s reliable,accurate but to me it’s ugly as hell. Even with the alloy frame loaded with 19 rounds it’s fairly heavy.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:35 PM
Badgerboy1 Badgerboy1 is offline
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Polymer guns offer more options for CC; lower cost opens up gun ownership to a larger customer base...whatever your opinion, more choices, more options, and more (responsible) gun owners is a good thing. Besides, strapping a full steel pistol on your Speedo in summer is problematic.
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:04 PM
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Old 07-13-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vortex360 View Post
They do whether you like it or not. I am much safer out on the street with my Springfield XD Mod 2 striker-fired 45 than with my 1911. The striker-fired weapons fire extremely fast and a volley of shots can be fired faster than the 1911. High capacity mags make it safer also. The Mod 2 is surprisingly more accurate than my 1911, again safer in a gunfight. Additionally there is no safety so you don't have to be concerned about disengaging the safety. It is pull and shoot, simple.
And I sir feel much safer with my 3953 than any striker fired weapon.

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Old 07-13-2018, 09:14 PM
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Sorry, not a Ford fan here...

But this particular combination is more my style!
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:55 PM
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Of all the guns I own my most carried are plastic: S&W Shield and Ruger LCP.
Of all the guns I own my least favorite are plastic: S&W Shield and Ruger LCP.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:12 PM
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Be careful. Those plastic gun guys outnumber us men of steel. Sorry situation ... plastic !! BLAH !! Even my Mattel "Fanners" were made out of some sort of metal. LOL
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Old 07-14-2018, 12:49 AM
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Metal wins. The Model 65-1 is 42 years old. The Model 12-2 is 55 years old. Both are functionally perfect. Like I said: metal wins.



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Old 07-14-2018, 07:53 AM
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I for one do not care what a pistol is made from as long as it shoots POA/POI is 99.97% reliable with any ammunition readily available.
They are tools their looks are not as important as their function.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:43 AM
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Let's cut to the meat........


ok..you may not like polymer resin (plastic as you understand it) handguns. that's ok...ignorance is treatable.



from all the comments here it is obvious that a WHOLE LOT of people have no clue of the nature, strength, and durability of polymer resin's used in today's firearms...and yes there is scientific proof that polymer resin's are stonger than metal and metal alloy's....don't take my word for it...it's out there for you to read but ut-oh...that means educating yourself...



Original glocks have been around for HOW LONG??? and are still functional and will be for HOW MANY MORE YEARS ??????


The under layment of the space shuttle heat shield tile area is WHAT???? Metal??? NOPE...polymer Resin's...YEP ...


the list goes on...but I am sure you don't want to hear it.....


Just saying....................................
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:03 AM
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ok..you may not like polymer resin (plastic as you understand it) handguns. that's ok...ignorance is treatable.

from all the comments here it is obvious that a WHOLE LOT of people have no clue of the nature, strength, and durability of polymer resin's used in today's firearms...
Right on...there is much science and material development into these polymers (which are also used for other applications, not only guns). Why are they cheaper? Not because the material itself is cheaper...you can't get much cheaper than steel...but because you can form to near or net shape...much, much less machining. Polymer plays an important role in the advancement and maturity of the firearm industry and market. I loved my 1970 Plymouth Fury III, but would it be my everyday driver today...nada.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:14 AM
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Funny how the polymer gun folks never say anything about people owning metal guns(with plastic grips )until provoked.
Alas, this one will die and then another thread will pop up in a few days, and so it goes.
Hey, what about MIM bashing, haven’t seen that in a day or three.

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Old 07-14-2018, 09:39 AM
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I no longer own any plastic pistols. Only steel or alloy frames.

On steel frames I use ballistol on the frame rails. On alloy frames I use CorrosionX grease on the frame rails.

1911's always get oil / Ballistol. Beretta M9 and SIG P series get grease on the frame/slide junction.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:41 AM
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The pony and the 39.
Same here. I'd love to get a 68 Boss Pony.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:47 AM
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I love my S&W 5906. It's my main carry. If I run out of bullets during an encounter it will make a great club.
Makes a pretty good anchor for small boats too!
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Let's cut to the meat........


ok..you may not like polymer resin (plastic as you understand it) handguns. that's ok...ignorance is treatable.



from all the comments here it is obvious that a WHOLE LOT of people have no clue of the nature, strength, and durability of polymer resin's used in today's firearms...and yes there is scientific proof that polymer resin's are stonger than metal and metal alloy's....don't take my word for it...it's out there for you to read but ut-oh...that means educating yourself...



Original glocks have been around for HOW LONG??? and are still functional and will be for HOW MANY MORE YEARS ??????


The under layment of the space shuttle heat shield tile area is WHAT???? Metal??? NOPE...polymer Resin's...YEP ...


the list goes on...but I am sure you don't want to hear it.....


Just saying....................................
Well Greg, there are still some out there lugging around a 1911 and wonder why they have back pain.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:16 AM
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:25 PM
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The problem is that you nuts think of handguns as pieces of art instead of the tools they are. You have a problem.
Arms have always been a bit of both and have been since ancient times. Wikipedia reports:

In the poem, Achilles lends Patroclus his armor in order to lead the Achaean army into battle. Ultimately, Patroclus is killed in battle by Hector, and Achilles' armor is stripped from his body and taken by Hector as spoils. The loss of his best friend (often times, called soul mate), prompts Achilles to return to battle, so his mother Thetis, a nymph, asks the god Hephaestus to provide replacement armor for her son. He obliges, and forges a shield with spectacular decorative imagery.

Homer’s description of the shield is one of the first known examples of ekphrasis in ancient Greek poetry; ekphrasis is a rhetorical figure in which a detailed (textual) description is given of a (visual) work of art. Besides providing narrative exposition, it can add deeper meaning to an artwork by reflecting on the process of its creation, in turn allowing the audience to envision artwork that they can't see.

The passage in which Homer describes the creation of the shield has actually influenced many later poems, including the Shield of Heracles once attributed to Hesiod. Virgil's description of the shield of Aeneas in Book Eight of the Aeneid is clearly modeled on Homer. The poem The Shield of Achilles (1952) by W. H. Auden reimagines Homer's description in 20th century terms. Of other significance, this passage is recognized as the first example of cosmological mapping in the history of Greece.

Homer gives a detailed description of the imagery which decorates the new shield. Starting from the shield's centre and moving outward, circle layer by circle layer, the shield is laid out as follows:

  • The Earth, sky and sea, the sun, the moon and the constellations (484–89)
  • "Two beautiful cities full of people": in one a wedding and a law case are taking place (490–508); the other city is besieged by one feuding army and the shield shows an ambush and a battle (509–40)
  • A field being ploughed for the third time (541–49)
  • A king's estate where the harvest is being reaped (550–60)
  • A vineyard with grape pickers (561–72)
  • A "herd of straight-horned cattle"; the lead bull has been attacked by a pair of savage lions which the herdsmen and their dogs are trying to beat off (573–86)
  • A picture of a sheep farm (587–89)
  • A dancing-floor where young men and women are dancing (590–606)
  • The great stream of Ocean (607–609)

As noted above, Virgil also describes the shield of Aeneas, which predicts rise of the Roman Republic and its eventual status of an empire. Arms have always been more than mere tools, though some people who carry and use them see no real difference between them and hammers and screwdrivers, and no one has ever engraved a hammer unless it was used as a weapon!
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:54 PM
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The problem is that you nuts DO NOT think of handguns as pieces of art IN ADDITION TO .... the tools they are. You have a problem.
There. I fixed it for you!
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Old 07-15-2018, 06:57 PM
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I wonder why otherwise sensible people will get so down right nasty when talking about metal versus plastic. (I almost said discussing, but that implies to me civil discourse.)
Yes, guns are tools. So are automobiles. So, why are we not driving econoboxes to work, the beach, etc? A Fiat 500 is certainly as good a tool as my RAV4. Personally, I'd rather have something else than the Toyota, but why, if it's just a tool?
Like a lot of people, I tried plastic, striker fired pistols. After all, it's what all my friends on the school district police force carried and who would know better than they? Right?
I tried their Glocks and XDs and finally settled on a Glock 26. I worked with that pistol several months and got good with it. (I also tried a CZ100, a double action only polymer and got good with it, too, but that's another story.) I never really liked the trigger on the 26 though, and considered the experiment an interesting failure. I dumped the Glock for a 908 or 6906s and similar pistols.
I've never regretted that decision.
If you like a Glock, or an XD, or an M&P more power to you. Sorry that I can't go there.
For the gentleman who commented that his Glock 19 is a better defensive weapon than his 66-2, or his LCP is preferred over a J-frame, I'll add that I shoot my 908S better than any of the snubbies (S&W and Colt both) I once owned.
And for the gentleman who opined that volley shots can be fired faster [from a striker fired pistol] than a from a 1911, I'm not certain that such capability is important. Maybe for a police officer it could be a minor consideration; for we civilians, I think volley fire is not vital and may indeed be criminal.
But if plastic striker fired guns float your boat, more power to you. I won't dis you. Nor will I try to convert you. Please be as considerate with me.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:33 PM
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Let me start with, life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun.

I haven't read all of the posts, but I see some that say, "If I have to defend myself, I don't want to lose one of my nice pistols to evidence. I'd rather lose a plastic gun to the police." Or something to that effect.

I remember having a new company vehicle assigned to me and I was changing over the stuff from one car to the other. Moving all of the nonsense we all carry, plus my ham radio, then I got to my emergency kit, like roadside flares and tools. When I was changing over the tools, the bag felt heavy, so I thought I'd thin the herd.

As I sorted through the tools, I noticed that every hand tool in there was a garage sale special. Some had a touch of rust, or were just low cost tools. That's when the following scenario dawned on me:

It's 2:30AM, I'm on the shoulder of the turnpike, it's raining/snowing like hell and the tools that I have to repair my car are among the worst that I own. It just didn't make sense to me, so I remedied the mistake. Fortunately, I never made that same mistake when choosing the tools that might save my life...

If you have to use a gun to justifiably save your life, it could run you about $75,000 to sort out that legal mess. And if it doesn't cost you a cent, you and/or your family are alive. Is the top of your mind really going to be on the $2,500 Les Baer you handed over for evidence?

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