Back in the day, several years prior to retirement from Investigations, I wanted an "ultimate" variant of the 4566.

Back then the Performance Center still existed as a seperate entity in the old airplane hanger behind the mainfactory. And still had gunsmiths employed. Guys with decades of experience.

The Performance Center 45CQB came about after the LAPD Pistol Team did an order for some 4566s with Briley bushings, match grade barrels and trigger jobs. IIRC 19 of these were made.

Then the PC made a couple of runs for the public. The all stainless 4566 45CQB was made in the fewest numbers. 91 examples, again, if I recall correctly. Through the kindness of my friend Grinder, I was able to procure an example. And a very nice 45 it is.

But there were a few things I wanted changed, to make it perfect, for me.

I wanted a spurless hammer, like that on my duty gun, a standard production 4566. I also wanted Novak night sights. And I wanted thetrigger geometry changed so that it broke the shot before the trigger impacted the frame of the gun. So I called the PC and spoke to Vito. One of the premier gunsmiths at the PC.

He listened to what I wanted and agreed to do the work. But he told me not to wait to send the gun as he was retiring shortly. If I wanted him to do the work, and I did, I needed to get it to him ASAP. So, off it went.

A few weeks later I got it back. Vito was able to do everything I wanted - except change the trigger. It still breaks the shot as it touches the frame. Oh well, two out of three aint bad. And I work around the trigger. That is, on the rare occasions I shoot it. I actually prefer my other 4566s. Especially my Melonite salesmans sample gun.

I never wound up carrying it on the job, because I never qualified with it. But here is a pic with someof the stuff I had to carry everyday. Regards18DAI

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Ultimate 4566.jpg (106.5 KB, 346 views)

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Nice...... the 4566 is the best of the S&W .45s IMHO......

Should have kept my CQB but hated the BillBoard..... no idea it was rare..... good news is I turned mine into a PC DPA 5906!!!!

Still have a stock 4566 in the safe.... but tend to carry a Sig 245 when I feel the need to carry a .45

Okay fine, I'll agree to buy that.

Ya know, there's a fellow on here who does a little gunsmithin' work. He even "liked" your post, 18. Bet he'd take that trigger and make it do what you wanted.

And this is as good a place as any for me to thank him again for the work he did on my own 4566. Not as nice a one as yours, though it does have a forged hammer I like. BMCM went through the gun for me in addition to replacing the trigger play spring, and he stoned the trigger parts to smooth 'em up in DA. Made me decide to keep the gun after thinking I'd get it fixed and sell it. Not everyday you have a gun with a custom trigger job.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

That is spectacular. Congrats on the find. It really is the ultimate 3rd gen 45.

Makes me kinda regret I didn't spring for that melonite 4566 that was on here a while back. Just bought a car... so the gun budget is on hiatus, at the moment.

In any case, congrats again.

We sure lost a good one when Vito retired... he was the last of the real "performance Center" gunsmiths and with his retirement, so went the Performance Center that we all remember.

Today the PC is in name only and no longer the standalone entity (even had a dedicated location away from the factory production area) it once was.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Sick.

And yeah, those overly-long DA pulls suck and need to go away.

Neat 18DAI! I may be a little biased in favor of those CQBs though. I bought the alloy 4563 CQB back around '98 IIRC. I was so impressed I went in search of the all stainless like yours. I was able to find a new 4566 CQB back around '99 or 2000 I think it was. Had it till a couple years ago, don't think I ever put even a hundred rounds through it. I did carry the alloy 4563 CQB for about a year and a half though, and it shows it. Never got into any shoot outs or anything with the alloy CQB, but through all kinds of training and qualifications, never a malfunction of any kind. The CQBs are confidence inspiring guns IMHO. By the way, spoke to Vito on the phone a couple of times. He did some revolver work for me. I hope he enjoys the whole retirement thing as much as I do

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CQB-P.jpg (117.6 KB, 92 views)

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

Grinder, the Performance Center super collector. I started collecting PC pistols after seeing his posts on the forum. I learned a lot from him and also bought a lot from him. One just happen to be a NIB PC 45 CQB all stainless, and another was the TuTone 45 CQB. I have sold the TuTone, but the all stainless is my all time favorite PC 45 and is still NIB. I have been tempted to switch the MIM trigger, hammer & sear for a Flash Chromed spurless hammer and wide 645 trigger with the appropriate sear. I have acquired the parts but need to shoot it before deciding to make the switch. Night sights would be great also.

Timely post. The 4566 is a favorite of mine and will be one of the last to go. I’m fortunate to own one the mentioned 19 or 20 PC4566 that went to the LAPD firearms instructors. It is a fantastic shooter and a highlight in my accumulation. It doesn’t see as much action these days and has held up very well.

IMG_3349.jpg

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

Thanks all!

vigil617 I know of who you speak. Stay tuned, he is currently fixing a mess for me on one of my guns. I will be starting a thread on the topic in a few weeks. I may eventually discuss changing the trigger on the CQB with him, but Ive got so many projects I want him to do that it is low priority.

Gunhacker I miss the Performance Center too. We got in a few "PC" Michulek 9mm revolvers. Sad that those guns bear the famous logo. We have Ruger LCRs in the shop that have better triggers. The owners traded them to us because they were disappointed in the performance.

Rock185 Congrats on your retirement!

MattyD380 I will keep an eye out for you on the Melonite 4566. I know the location of a couple. I will PM you should they come up for sale. They are nice pistols!

03Fatboy I am green with envy! I have wanted one of those Unicorns ever since my friend CALREB told me of their existance. I had to "settle" for the PC 45CQB.

Thanks again fellas! Best regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Redcardinal I would PM member BMCM about changing out the hammer, trigger and sear on your 45CQB.

I thought long and hard before I changed mine. I am a shooter/accumulator, NOT a collector. So collector value on this rare gun wasnt a concern to me. I bought the gun from Grinder to use and it was a shooter grade when I got it, having been owned by another member here and a couple of other folks. It had some rounds down the pipe already.

There is also the fact that it is really a custom gun and a precision built one at that. Very few people left out there to work on it. BMCM is the only craftsman left that I would trust to do the job. Especially on a real Performance Center gun made in small numbers. He is currently repairing a shooter grade PC Shorty 45 MKII for me.

But I would encourage you to do it! These guns were built to be shot. Make it what you want it to be. I did and Im very glad I did it while the opportunity existed. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Wise A the problem is not the DA trigger stroke. The DA trigger stroke is short and smooth.

The problem is where it trips the sear and breaks the shot. On my duty guns........well.....on all my 3rd gen guns, the trigger trips the sear well before the trigger itself impacts the frame of the pistol.

On this one, it does not. And if I am not careful about my finger placement on the trigger, I can actually get it pinched between the trigger and the frame as the shot breaks. It is a trigger geometry problem, not a DA trigger stroke problem. Sorry I wasnt clear.

As to TDA triggers, I taught tiny housewives how to shoot DA/SA guns for 18 months after I retired. The much ballyhooed "Double action to single action transition" is only an "issue" on the internet gun boards. After watching little women who never shot a gun before, master it in less than 3 mags, I'm embarrased for those who claim it is a problem or disadvantage. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I owned a 4566 until recently, a fellow at the range offered me a lot more than I thought it was worth and it went home with him. Softest shooting 45 I ever had my hands on. If I didn't have the Sig 245 I couldn't have let it go.

Don't carry a .45 much anymore.... but when I do it's a Sig 245!! It doen't realize it's a compact ..... shoots as well as a full size 220!

I'm curious about how the 4566 CQB differs from a 4566TSW. Do they have different springs, trigger/sear configuration or are they more "tuned up". I lucked into a 4566 TSW which was one of the 25 or so sent to the Kentucky State Police for evaluation (at least that's the story I got with it). It doesn't have a rail thank goodness, and is still LNIB.

Should I refrain from having any "tuning" work done to it? I'd like it to have a lighter DA pull, although it's pretty smooth already. Or should I just shoot it and keep the thing bone stock? I replaced the springs in my 4516 with some Wolff or Wilson springs ( can't recall which) and I polished a few things when I had it apart. It's now a lot smoother and has a bit lighter pull. Are there any CQB parts that might drop in and help?

I just bought the thing on a whim when an ex trooper friend of mind said he was selling it. Thought it went well with my KSP 1076.

Thanks for the education I get from just reading your guy's posts. I'm not as familiar with the semi-autos as I am with revolvers. And even that ain't saying much. LOL!

Congrats on the KSP 4566! I am always watching out for one of them to come up for sale.

The main differences between a PC 45CQB and a 4566TSW are the 4 inch match grade barrel - which has no bell mouth at the muzzle and wont work in any other 4566 - and the Briley bushing which holds the muzzle tightly to the slide.

Other than a few other cosmetic differences, the PC 4566 and the 4566TSW have a few things in common. After all, the TSW series guns incorporated engineering advancements pioneered by the Performance Center.

The oversized frame rails and delayed unlocking being the major common trait. The oversized frame rails (being hand lapped on the PC guns - NOT on the TSW series) contributing to tighter slide to frame fit and increased durability. The delayed unlocking contibuting to less felt recoil and increased accuracy.

Most of the parts used in the PC 45CQB are interchangeable with the 4566TSW. A good gunsmith (BMCM ) might be able to put a trigger on a 4566TSW which might rival or surpass a PC trigger.

Anyways, your KSP 4566TSW is a fine pistol in its own right and might be considered by many 4566 aficionados to be a contender for the "Ultimate 4566" title itself. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Hey 18, you have a couple I’m green with envy 🤢 as well. I seem to recall one prototype that headlined on a gun magazine and a coveted PC Model 14 that went to the LAPD pistol champion team around 1998 or so!!!!

Those are special.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

I still have the PC 4563 45CQB that was on the American Handgunner cover. The PC 4 inch full lug 14-6 got sold when I downsized.

And I had a hard time finding a buyer too. Listed on the big auction board twice. Finally sent it to auction at a rare gun dealer. It didnt bring much either. But, I had very little in it and dont miss it. It was ok.

Here is the PC 4563 45CQB one of one prototype. Regards 18DAI

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PC 45CQB.jpg (121.5 KB, 53 views)

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I can think of two ways to do this...Neither being simple and easy.

The problem here with these guns, same as found on the PC4506 is the base frame used is that of an 845 which is designed to house an adjustable single action trigger.

Observe... The fire control components in both of these gun are dimensionally identical.

The difference here is the trigger window. Note the distance from the edge of the grip panel to the rear of the trigger window on both guns. See the difference? Note also how the Shorty45 window is deeper and more rounded behind the trigger.

So how might we address this to get the trigger off the back wall?

Well one way would be to plug and weld up this screw hole:

So we don't cut into that hole when re-contouring the trigger window by removing material from here:


Pros: No effective change to trigger geometry, we merely moved the wall away from the trigger.

Cons: Lots of work and a permanent modification to a rare and highly collectible arm.

The other way, which I prefer, would be to modify a spare drawbar.

Take a spare drawbar and build up this area by micro welding:

Then file/stone/fit to achieve the desired result.

Pros: No permanent change to the gun. Modified drawbar can be easily swapped for the original part.

Cons: Changes trigger geometry by increasing reach. Trigger will be further away from the back wall in all positions ie. at rest, at full cock , and at sear release.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

I will state again how talented you are BMCM - AND how lucky we are to have you here!

Thank you sir for the explanation and the solution to the issue! I think I will start looking for another drawbar. Best regards, 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I LOVE these technical challenges.

Just a thought...

Building up the area of the drawbar where the trigger hooks engage would certainly move the trigger (and consequently the SA pull) forward in the trigger guard, but that would also do the same to the DA pull.

I wonder if building up the rear of the drawbar (where it pushes against the sear to release the hammer in SA) would not have the same result without changing the DA pull?

Also, not to nitpick, but only the 9mm and 40s&w TSW models were fitted with the "delayed unlocking" (by means of decreasing the angle of the barrel and frame de-camming lugs by approx. 2 degrees).

The 45 standard and TSW models share the same cam angles.

John

That's a viable idea too. That would enable the trigger to break well before the wall but also increase the freefall to the wall after the sear breaks so trigger follow through might be a problem plus this method will lengthen the reset.

I've got a number of spare takeoff drawbars in the bin. Perhaps some experimentation is in order to see what the best option is. When I have a bit of cash to burn I'll send a couple off to my micro welding guy. I need to determine what alloy of stainless they're made of first though. I'm thinking some form of 400 series or perhaps 17-4. It'd have to be some alloy inherently tough & wear resistant since these don't appear to be heat treated or hardened in any way.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

While nowhere near as durable as weldment, for experimentation purposes, a dollop of J-B weld applied to the rear of the sear, then judiciously filed and shaped, could prove this hypothesis without a great deal of expense and also be reversible (Rule #1 of ANY modification I espouse).

While the sear could be welded, I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable in metallurgy to know if the hardness of the sear hooks would be compromised by the heat of welding.

John

WOW!!! I learned a lot about my all time favorite with BMCM's posts. I had to go open up the case and check my trigger. It is about the same as 18DAI's. But I am wondering why not shave the back of the trigger a small amount to get the clearance. I looked at the wide trigger, a la 645, that I am contemplating switching to, and it appears to be a tad slimmer also. The wider, slimmer trigger may solve both the pinching and slamming the wall.

Nice pistol, & of course I'm jealous.

.

Here you go, I rotated the picture for you.

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Waiting for the break of day

Thanks BLUEDOT37!

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Well, just disregard all of my comments. It ain't gonna happen. It is NIB and will be sold that way. I will go to my KSP 4566TSW instead. It does not need anything done to it.

A CQB that I recently acquired; I will keep her as she came from the Performance Center.

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	CQB 1.jpg (28.9 KB, 29 views)
	CQ.jpg (31.2 KB, 35 views)