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Old 09-08-2018, 02:06 PM
N4KVE N4KVE is offline
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Default CS9. Should I?

I was at a show today, & a vendor had a blue CS45, & CS9. I was surprised how much fatter the CS45 was. He was asking $659 for the 45, & $459 for the 9. While I had the $, it was more than I was willing to pay. The CS9 felt fatter in my hand than my 3913. Probably the grips. Before I left the show, I offered the seller $400 out the door for the CS9. 1 mag, no box. He countered $400 plus tax. I stuck to my guns, & left. I will go back tomorrow at closing time & again offer $400 out the door. Am I crazy? GARY.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:12 PM
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You will be happier with a new technology Shield
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:15 PM
KarmannGhia KarmannGhia is offline
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Crazy, NO.
I'm willing to bet, it will be gone.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:29 PM
mauser9 mauser9 is offline
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I would try again for sure but agree both may be gone. Not a bad price in my opinion and the blued versions often tough to find as not as many produced as stainless.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:32 PM
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Crazy, NO.
I'm willing to bet, it will be gone.
Florida sales tax? Six percent? If that's correct, at $424.00 out the door it'd have been gone with me without thinking.

It is, in my opinion, possibly the best pocket carry 9mm* out there.

Invest in a set of TercGen's grips and you are not going to do better.



*yes, there are smaller, but they are either hideously more expensive or not TDA.** A non-TDA** gun is NOT going into my pocket ... or for defense use in general.



**Traditional Double Action - or whatever they're calling it these days when a pull of the trigger the first time cocks the hammer and drops it, and every subsequent pull simply drops an already-cocked hammer.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:41 PM
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**Traditional Double Action - or whatever they're calling it these days when a pull of the trigger the first time cocks the hammer and drops it, and every subsequent pull simply drops an already-cocked hammer.
That would be DA/SA.

If the gun is in verifiable good working condition, $400 might be doable, but the gun is no longer supported by S&W and parts (and mags) are often difficult to come by. Buyer Beware applies.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:44 PM
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While I would not get it because I have enough guns for the niche it would fit, and I am concerned about the lack of residual support from S&W if it were to have a mechanical issue (and I would prefer the DAO variant most likely), I think the price was perfectly reasonable and you have a good chance of being disappointed tomorrow.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:59 PM
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I would not be disappointed. My 3913 fit better in my hand. If the 45 was $400 plus tax, I’d have done that. But between my 4516, & 3913, I don’t need either gun. Hence my price ceiling. GARY.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:02 PM
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$400 OTD would be a great price if you can swing it, but $400+tax is still a good price. These guns are popping up on Gunbroker lately and you'd be very lucky to pay $400 or less with shipping and transfer fees for one.

The nice thing about a TDA gun like this is that you'd be able to install a spurred hammer on it, which I know is your preference. Can't do that to a plastic Shield.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:13 PM
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Personally, I'd have bought it for a couple reasons. First, I like the CS9 and have 3 of them (1 being a CS9D). Secondly, I spotted a beautiful Model 59 at a recent gun show. I offered $75 less than the asking price and the seller went down by $50. I walked away over $25. The next afternoon, towards the end of the show, I texted the seller to say my offer was still good. He came back that the gun had sold that morning...

at his original asking price.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:14 PM
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The nice thing about a TDA gun like this is that you'd be able to install a spurred hammer on it, which I know is your preference.
Yup. Did that to my 4516, 3913, & 469. So I’d have to do that to the CS9 also. That’s why I’m holding at $400. The tax $ would pay for the trigger. 7%, & $5 background check is $33. GARY.
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Old 09-08-2018, 03:49 PM
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For 25 or 30 dollars it would have been mine. I save lots of $$$’s since I don’t smoke nor drink.
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:06 PM
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I don’t smoke, or drink either, & I had $ in my pocket but I work several fun shows for different FFL’s. I was off this show, & I asked their opinion. They all told me $400 max. These guys have made big $ over the years, so I trust their opinions. It’s not like I was in love with the gun. GARY.
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:27 PM
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If I knew where it was at , I would have driven from Oviedo (Orlando area ) and bought both . I have a CS9 and a CS40 which is being converted to 10mm . I'd jump on that CS45 with no questions asked , I don't see any around . Now the mags are a different story .
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:40 PM
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I'd jump on that CS45 with no questions asked , I don't see any around .
He wanted $659 for that gun. My FFL friend’s all told me the seller was eating expired meds to ask that. GARY.
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Old 09-08-2018, 04:59 PM
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Default Should have grabbed the 9

4 plus tax is good, him paying the tax would have meant a 75 dollar discount prob narrowed his profit margin too much.
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Old 09-08-2018, 05:17 PM
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Me likey chiefbob. Nice grips on that CS-9. That blued one looks great. Bet they would sell like hotcakes if made again. Plenty of interest!!
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Old 09-08-2018, 05:18 PM
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But I work for FFL’s at gun shows. They pay $hit for used guns. That CS9 I’m sure he paid $250 for it. Every show I hear tons of reasons why it’s worthless, not supported, not plastic, & the seller is desperate for cash. Believe me the seller will have a nice profit at $350. Like I said, 5 PM Sunday, prices drop. GARY.

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Old 09-08-2018, 05:23 PM
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But I work for FFL’s at gun shows. They pay $hit for used guns. That CS9 I’m sure he paid $250 for it. Every show I hear tons of reasons why it’s worthless, not supported, not plastic, & the seller is desperate for cash. Believe me the seller will have a nice profit at $350. Like I said, 5 PM Sunday, prices drop. GARY.
Having worked a show or two over the decades, yep.

Some dealers just want to move product, some dealers seem to be married to their stuff.

He MIGHT be in it too deep, but more likely than not you're right (or close to right). But if he'd rather pack it up and carry it out instead of four Benjamins, there's not much you can do except
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:04 PM
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A few months ago, I picked up a 6 month old CZ2075. A $600 gun, the store paid $250 for it. I got it for $400 OTD. The 469 I picked up used for $310 OTD cost the store $200. The 3913 I got for $379 cost the store $250. They love buying used guns, because while they make $50 profit on a new Glock, they’ll make $150 on a used Glock. GARY
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:18 PM
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A nice blued CS9 is hard to come by. I would have done it.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:33 PM
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Agree with N4KVE. More sellers should walk away from these ridiculous low ball offers. Far better to sell privately or put the gun on consignment at least.
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Old 09-08-2018, 06:41 PM
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You will be happier with a new technology Shield
I actually ditched my Shield after getting my CS
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:20 PM
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Agree with N4KVE. More sellers should walk away from these ridiculous low ball offers. Far better to sell privately or put the gun on consignment at least.
And I agree. But many of these sellers are in a predicament where they need cash TODAY to pay the rent, pay a ticket, or come up with child support so they don’t end up living on the street, or in jail that night. When I buy something new, I pay cash, & if the new gun is replacing another gun, I will sell it locally online. But it may be a week before the deal is completed. I can afford to wait the week, but others need the $ TODAY, so they reluctantly accept the low ball offer. I see it at work all the time. GARY.

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Old 09-09-2018, 12:07 AM
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And I agree. But many of these sellers are in a predicament where they need cash TODAY to pay the rent, pay a ticket, or come up with child support so they don’t end up living on the street, or in jail that night. When I buy something new, I pay cash, & if the new gun is replacing another gun, I will sell it locally online. But it may be a week before the deal is completed. I can afford to wait the week, but others need the $ TODAY, so they reluctantly accept the low ball offer. I see it at work all the time. GARY.
Actually, the term "low ball offer" is a meaningless noise.

The offer is either acceptable or not.

Tossing a pejorative into the mix is a null so far as the economics of the transaction go.

Either he wants the gun more than the money, or he wants the money more than the gun. For a value of "he" for buyer OR seller. Thus a deal happens ... or doesn't.

Let me revise - "lowball offer" is not completely meaningless. It's indicative of someone who's married to his stuff. Again, for a value of "stuff" that equals either gun or cash.
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Old 09-09-2018, 05:56 AM
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I remember a guy coming into the store once desperately needing $. He had his FN 5.7 to sell. We offered him $300, & he started freaking out saying “do you know what this gun is worth, etc”? We told him to list it online, & he could easily get double that. But he asked how long that would take. We replied “depends, but surely within a week”. He replied he needed the $ immediately, & we got it for $300. I have learned when someone has no bank account, & lives paycheck, to paycheck, & needs immediate cash for some emergency, they sell their gun. The $300 was a low ball offer, & he was desperate enough to accept it. GARY.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:39 AM
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I remember a guy coming into the store once desperately needing $. He had his FN 5.7 to sell. We offered him $300, & he started freaking out saying “do you know what this gun is worth, etc”? We told him to list it online, & he could easily get double that. But he asked how long that would take. We replied “depends, but surely within a week”. He replied he needed the $ immediately, & we got it for $300. I have learned when someone has no bank account, & lives paycheck, to paycheck, & needs immediate cash for some emergency, they sell their gun. The $300 was a low ball offer, & he was desperate enough to accept it. GARY.
If any of you are ever desperate enough to sell your 5.7, I'll pay $350.
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Old 09-09-2018, 09:41 AM
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I remember a guy coming into the store once desperately needing $. He had his FN 5.7 to sell. We offered him $300, & he started freaking out saying “do you know what this gun is worth, etc”? We told him to list it online, & he could easily get double that. But he asked how long that would take. We replied “depends, but surely within a week”. He replied he needed the $ immediately, & we got it for $300. I have learned when someone has no bank account, & lives paycheck, to paycheck, & needs immediate cash for some emergency, they sell their gun. The $300 was a low ball offer, & he was desperate enough to accept it. GARY.
It was just an offer. He had to take into account the time value of the thing - he needed the $300 there and then more than he needed the gun. Not $500 in a week. Not $400 another store might have given him.

Now, this is not to say that his decision was exactly the most thoughtful.

In a somewhat similar fashion, we had a guy come in and blew his entire military paycheck (this was some time ago) on a .44 Magnum. Which he decided was to expensive to feed, so he traded it straight across for a .22. Which he didn't want to have to keep in the arms room, so he traded for a "Rambo knife" (that movie having just come out) in the form of a Buckmaster. Which ate into his drinking budget so he sold it back to us for half of what he'd paid.

In short, he converted, over the course of three weeks, his entire check into fifty bucks' worth of beer. Which, as we know, you only rent anyway.

Generally in negotiations, most ALL offers start out as "lowball," I guess you could say, since most bargainers do not start out at their final price, unless they're strange or in a hurry.

Terms like "lowball" and "gouging" suggest that there is some sort of Mystical Economic God who magically knows the "right" price that something should be, and anybody who goes too far off that "right" price is somehow being unfair.

Which is a perfectly acceptable concept if someone is a two year old or a socialist, but for normal mature adults is decidedly Prices are prices - they're determined between the buyer and seller at the time of the sale and the fact that either could have gotten a "better" price at a different time (or at THAT time, with better bargaining) is not particularly relevant.

It'll be interesting to hear if you come home with the gun today - are you paying each time you go into the show?

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Old 09-09-2018, 09:56 AM
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And I agree. But many of these sellers are in a predicament where they need cash TODAY to pay the rent, pay a ticket, or come up with child support so they don’t end up living on the street, or in jail that night. When I buy something new, I pay cash, & if the new gun is replacing another gun, I will sell it locally online. But it may be a week before the deal is completed. I can afford to wait the week, but others need the $ TODAY, so they reluctantly accept the low ball offer. I see it at work all the time. GARY.
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I remember a guy coming into the store once desperately needing $. He had his FN 5.7 to sell. We offered him $300, & he started freaking out saying “do you know what this gun is worth, etc”? We told him to list it online, & he could easily get double that. But he asked how long that would take. We replied “depends, but surely within a week”. He replied he needed the $ immediately, & we got it for $300. I have learned when someone has no bank account, & lives paycheck, to paycheck, & needs immediate cash for some emergency, they sell their gun. The $300 was a low ball offer, & he was desperate enough to accept it. GARY.
A large dealer to the south of me is endlessly begging for used guns with the proverbial "highest prices paid" cliché... but I've seen and heard with my own eyes and ears how absurd and laughable that really is.

I'm not saying that the dealer in question is not entitled to make a buck, but the deception to drag people in there... women in particular... is so blatant as to be pure, raw dishonesty.

But such is the world we live in. It's part of how shops survive and thrive. The key is to avoid it yourself no matter what. As dirt poor as I am, Hell will freeze over solid before I ever pawn or sell any gun outright to a "highest prices paid" dealer.
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:01 AM
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The CS9 and CS45 were under rated in their production years and ahead of their time. I would not trade mine for their "modern" composite counterparts. Both are very reliable, accurate and sturdy for their size.
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:14 AM
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It'll be interesting to hear if you come home with the gun today - are you paying each time you go into the show?
Negative. Since I work most shows, I just walk in as a vendor. The staff assumes I am working the show. I have decided between my 3913, & CZ2075 RAMI, I don’t need the 9mm. The RAMI is the same size, & came with a hammer I can cock. My goal is to get a stainless CS45. Not a blue CS9. For anyone interested, it’s the West Palm Beach show at the fairgrounds. When you walk in the door, the Glock guy will be slightly to your left. One aisle to the left will the young couple from Jupiter. Behind them is the guy with the guns I mentioned. He has about 5 tables. Good luck. GARY.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:18 PM
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N4KVE, did you go back on Sunday, results?
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:31 PM
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Sounds pretty much to me is"Expect No Mercy" when selling to an LGS even though they deserve to make a profit. Feel sorry for those so desperate forced to take a ridiculous offer.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:07 PM
N4KVE N4KVE is offline
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No, I decided between my CZ2075 RAMI, & my 3913, I had enough 9mm compacts. My real want was a stainless CS45, not a blue CS9. Almost had one on Gunbroker yesterday. 10 minutes to go, but got into a bidding war with one other guy. I quit at $475. Don’t know what it sold for. Lots of last second sniping. Wasn’t going to get caught up in that. GARY.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:14 PM
mauser9 mauser9 is offline
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No, I decided between my CZ2075 RAMI, & my 3913, I had enough 9mm compacts. My real want was a stainless CS45, not a blue CS9. Almost had one on Gunbroker yesterday. 10 minutes to go, but got into a bidding war with one other guy. I quit at $475. Don’t know what it sold for. Lots of last second sniping. Wasn’t going to get caught up in that. GARY.
Yep those "bidding wars" can be deadly. Recently a matching German 98k went for $5000 on Gunbroker!! Sure sounds like a bidding war to me. Made me wish I had about 20 to sell.
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  #36  
Old 09-11-2018, 06:14 PM
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gunhobbit gunhobbit is offline
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Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
No, I decided between my CZ2075 RAMI, & my 3913, I had enough 9mm compacts. My real want was a stainless CS45, not a blue CS9. Almost had one on Gunbroker yesterday. 10 minutes to go, but got into a bidding war with one other guy. I quit at $475. Don’t know what it sold for. Lots of last second sniping. Wasn’t going to get caught up in that. GARY.
It's GB. It sold for five bucks more than your last bid, but ten bucks less than you WOULD have gone if you'd decided to stay in.

Or at least that's always how it seems to ME.

Last edited by gunhobbit; 09-11-2018 at 06:45 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-11-2018, 06:32 PM
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Jeppo Jeppo is offline
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Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
No, I decided between my CZ2075 RAMI, & my 3913, I had enough 9mm compacts. My real want was a stainless CS45, not a blue CS9. Almost had one on Gunbroker yesterday. 10 minutes to go, but got into a bidding war with one other guy. I quit at $475. Don’t know what it sold for. Lots of last second sniping. Wasn’t going to get caught up in that. GARY.
I bowed out just before you.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:43 PM
barbara_em barbara_em is offline
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From N4KVE:
I have decided between my 3913, & CZ2075 RAMI, I don’t need the 9mm. The RAMI is the same size, & came with a hammer I can cock.
Although I'm a fan of the CZ, I have limited knowledge of and have never even handled a RAMI. I need to fix this deplorable situation. Aren't they out of production?
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:18 PM
gman51 gman51 is online now
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I figure any gun is only worth what I am willing to pay for it. My offer might not be the real value of the gun but it is my offer. Take it or leave it.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:31 PM
Telecaster Telecaster is offline
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An LGS here has s CS9 for $579, with two mags and some scratches on the trigger guard, just as a reference point.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:46 PM
N4KVE N4KVE is offline
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From N4KVE:
I have decided between my 3913, & CZ2075 RAMI, I don’t need the 9mm. The RAMI is the same size, & came with a hammer I can cock.
Although I'm a fan of the CZ, I have limited knowledge of and have never even handled a RAMI. I need to fix this deplorable situation. Aren't they out of production?
No. We sell them new. Really nice. gary
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