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  #101  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:42 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
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I had read he had all ready done this. do you guys read the full Thread?
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  #102  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:52 PM
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Default M39

This is allready in process, the dealer who took possesion of the pistol has filed his paperwork,i have been in contact with another trooper who is working on that end,as well as the historical society, The request to mr. Jinks shall go out tomorrow as well, "C" form information is not that easy to aquire as you can imagine.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:19 PM
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This is allready in process, the dealer who took possesion of the pistol has filed his paperwork,i have been in contact with another trooper who is working on that end,as well as the historical society, The request to mr. Jinks shall go out tomorrow as well, "C" form information is not that easy to aquire as you can imagine.
IIRC, MY ROUTINE REQUESTS TO MR. JINX TOOK WEEKS TO RETURN.....

HOPEFULLY, SOMEONE WITH SOME CRANK AT THAT LEVEL--PERHAPS OUR ADMIN--CAN HURRY THE RESPONSE ALONG......

AS AN OL' SOLDIER WITH NO DOG IN THE FIGHT--OTHER THAN TO SUPPORT Kharmakid--I MUST DISPLAY A VIRTUE THAT I DON'T POSSESS IN GREAT ABUNDANCE......

THAT IS PATIENCE ! ! !
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  #104  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:51 PM
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Hey Chris, are you not happy you started this?
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  #105  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:06 PM
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Default M39

Mike ol friend,in retrospect i should have included all the info i had compiled in my first post,however i came here seeking the knowledge and opinions of those more versed than i. It has been a great experience and journey for me as well as the family, an answer is forthcoming. I shall be patient, but i wont give up the search untill im sure every inch of ground has been covered,,,,
Regards,
Chris
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  #106  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kharmakid View Post
Mike ol friend,in retrospect i should have included all the info i had compiled in my first post,however i came here seeking the knowledge and opinions of those more versed than i. It has been a great experience and journey for me as well as the family, an answer is forthcoming. I shall be patient, but i wont give up the search untill im sure every inch of ground has been covered,,,,
Regards,
Chris
W T G Chris, HANG TUFF ! ! !

WHATEVER IT IS---ITS STILL A SWEET LOOKING M39.....
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  #107  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:26 PM
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After speaking today with the NYSP, the serial number is indeed the shield number of Trooper slingerland. The pistol was dissasembled today and under magnification the following was found.
Front frame rails left and right side .094
Frame rails at the end of engraving .094
Height of frame at front .617
Serial number height .125
Machine marks consistent on both sides of frame
No indication of refinish
Markings on frame, p on front of left trigger guard, number 7 located on left lower frame upper right of lower grip screw estucheon. Ive filled out my paper work for mr jinks and enclosed photos of this pistol to him,,now we shall wait for the results, ive posted a final photo of the dissasembled pistol in my album,,thanks to all,,,regards, chris
THIS IS MARVELOUS NEWS---GREAT PROVENANCE ! ! !
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  #108  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:17 PM
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OH! you are going to get a lot of opinions, and some limited knowledge.
But it is a lot of fun and a real HOOT! Mike
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  #109  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:43 PM
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ITS SOMEWHAT SAD THAT AFTER ALL OF MY POSTS, I STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY I POST IN CAPS.....

NO, I AM NOT SHOUTING, AND NO, I AM NOT ANGRY---AS IF YOU PEOPLE CAN HEAR WITH YOUR EYEBALLS ! ! ! CAN YOU READ WITH YOUR EARS AS WELL ? ? ?

WELL THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT I AM A 100% DISABLED VIETNAM VETERAN, THAT IS BLIND IN ONE EYE (HENCE MY USER NAME), AND I HAVE A CATARACT AND GLAUCOMA IN MY "GOOD" EYE. I TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE ITS MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO SEE WHAT I'M TYPING...

TO ANYONE WHO IS OFFENDED BY MY POSTS IN CAPS, OR CLAIM THAT THEY HURT THEIR EYES--- FEEL FREE TO SCROLL ON BY THEM. I CERTAINLY WILL NOT MIND, NOR WILL I MISS YOU.....

REMEMBER THAT AMERICA IS THE LAND OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! !
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  #110  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
ITS SOMEWHAT SAD THAT AFTER ALL OF MY POSTS, I STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY I POST IN CAPS.....

NO, I AM NOT SHOUTING, AND NO, I AM NOT ANGRY---AS IF YOU PEOPLE CAN HEAR WITH YOUR EYEBALLS ! ! ! CAN YOU READ WITH YOUR EARS AS WELL ? ? ?

WELL THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT I AM A 100% DISABLED VIETNAM VETERAN, THAT IS BLIND IN ONE EYE (HENCE MY USER NAME), AND I HAVE A CATARACT AND GLAUCOMA IN MY "GOOD" EYE. I TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE ITS MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO SEE WHAT I'M TYPING...

TO ANYONE WHO IS OFFENDED BY MY POSTS IN CAPS, OR CLAIM THAT THEY HURT THEIR EYES--- FEEL FREE TO SCROLL ON BY THEM.
I CERTAINLY WILL NOT MIND, NOR WILL I MISS YOU.....

REMEMBER THAT AMERICA IS THE LAND OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! !
Just curious, how do you read the replies? Or even the complaints? Do we need to post in caps also to make it easier for you?
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  #111  
Old 09-23-2018, 09:45 PM
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ITS SOMEWHAT SAD THAT AFTER ALL OF MY POSTS, I STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY I POST IN CAPS.....

NO, I AM NOT SHOUTING, AND NO, I AM NOT ANGRY---AS IF YOU PEOPLE CAN HEAR WITH YOUR EYEBALLS ! ! ! CAN YOU READ WITH YOUR EARS AS WELL ? ? ?

WELL THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THAT I AM A 100% DISABLED VIETNAM VETERAN, THAT IS BLIND IN ONE EYE (HENCE MY USER NAME), AND I HAVE A CATARACT AND GLAUCOMA IN MY "GOOD" EYE. I TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE ITS MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO SEE WHAT I'M TYPING...

TO ANYONE WHO IS OFFENDED BY MY POSTS IN CAPS, OR CLAIM THAT THEY HURT THEIR EYES--- FEEL FREE TO SCROLL ON BY THEM.
I CERTAINLY WILL NOT MIND, NOR WILL I MISS YOU.....

REMEMBER THAT AMERICA IS THE LAND OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE ! ! !
WELL IN RESEARCHING THE THREAD, I FOUND THAT THE CRITICISM OF MY TYPING IN CAPS, CAME FROM A NEWBIE NAMED 1straykat. THIS WAS HIS 2ND POST---SO I MUST CUT HIM SOME SLACK.....

MOST ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN AROUND THIS FORUM FOR A MINUTE, JUST ACCEPTS ME HOW I AM---AND I APPRECIATE IT....
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  #112  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:21 PM
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Just curious, how do you read the replies? Or even the complaints? Do we need to post in caps also to make it easier for you?
NAAAH, ITS FINE Ww. I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD OF UPPER AND LOWER CASE, AND I DON'T ASK FOR, NOR DO I EXPECT ANY EXTRAORDINARY ACCOMMODATION.....

JUST A LITTLE TOLERANCE GOES A LONG WAY....
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  #113  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:21 PM
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NAAAH, ITS FINE Ww. I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD OF UPPER AND LOWER CASE, AND I DON'T ASK FOR, NOR DO I EXPECT ANY EXTRAORDINARY ACCOMMODATION.....

JUST A LITTLE TOLERANCE GOES A LONG WAY....
This is what the world needs more of these days in all areas of life...this comes from a conservative U.S.A loving gun toting Christian man...
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  #114  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:19 AM
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This is what the world needs more of these days in all areas of life...this comes from a conservative U.S.A loving gun toting Christian man...
WELL RANDY--THAT BEING SAID, I MUST SAY W/O GETTING INTO THE FORBIDDEN AREA OF POLITICS, THAT YOU AND I WOULD GET ALONG JUST FINE, IN THE REAL WORLD.....
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  #115  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:52 AM
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This is all very interesting. Can't wait to see what is in your letter. I worked very closely with the NYSP as a Member of another NYS law enforcement agency. NYS has 5 (05) uniform police depts, with the Division of State Police being the largest. As I said earlier the original owner had to be a Officer with a shield number that low. When Troopers retire they are provided with a Superindent's Pistol License. I do not know if the Troopers need a C Form to buy a gun. Its probably changed since I retired and moved out of state. It was not necessary back then, 8 yrs ago. All other agencies require a C Form, which is why most of us had a regular Pistol License. C Form means the Agency technically owns the weapon and seize it at will. I have no doubt they were able to obtain aM39 with that serial number from S&W with minimal problems. Forget the judge part having anything to do with it. That would have been post retirement.
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  #116  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:38 AM
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Lt7d103, i believe you are correct and im in error, i can remember walking into gun shops and making a purchase with the use of my shield, then using a c form at agency to register with nysp. Afyer the purchase i would then get it on my permit. That was 18 years ago, im not exzactly sure how the NYSP did theres. Im not sure exzactly when the State started the Supers license, this Trooper served 1953-1973 so its a good point,thanks for your clarification, now im gonna have to reaearch cpl 400.00 to upgrade my knowledge
Regards,
Chris
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  #117  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:20 AM
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Tagged in for the outcome! Good stuff.
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  #118  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:54 PM
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Letter request and photos in the mail,,now the hard part,,we shall wait,,
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:56 PM
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See if member MODEL39 checks in. He is a retired NYS LEO and a collector of Model 39s for at least 25 years that I know of, likely much longer.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:07 PM
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Who is the definitive word on 9mm autos.? Im waiting for the results of the research that Mr. Jinks will do. If I dont own it, it can not be right?
Lets see what the research reveals. Chris has a real goodie here. Mike
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:31 PM
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Hi guys, i recently came across a model 39 aluminum frame with a 2 digit serial number, actually the serial number is 25 any one have any insight as to history or value please this pistol is mint, thanks for your help,!,
Right here, in the SWCA protal for members only, is at least some of the information you care to know about M39 SN 25.

It's real, it exists, but you gotta pay the fiddler (and it's also a darn good thing to do, overall).

Later.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:49 PM
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Who is the definitive word on 9mm autos.? Im waiting for the results of the research that Mr. Jinks will do. If I dont own it, it can not be right?
Lets see what the research reveals. Chris has a real goodie here. Mike
Mike , you're misinterpreting the entire slew of comments ... again.

No one is saying good or bad, Right or wrong ... All " I " am saying is that it is NOT, "the" Serial number 25 (of those of legend and lore of those that are supposed to exist under SN 1001.

"THE" only verified legendary, pre-release, special serial number was to Jack Webb as SN: 714 in 1955 and those of the X (experimental) prefix serial numbers of the early 1950s.

The OP's gun is a customized MODEL 39, of the style and production changes similar to those produced well into the 1960s.

Also, the serial number placement is wrong. It was a 5 digit serial number gun.

Also, while Roy is the holder of the records and Commander in Chief of all that is S&W, I really don't think he's going to comment much on this one.

I'll wager on all you got, and offer you odds, that it is NOT a pre-production gun, with a true serial number less than 1001.

When I found my 39-2 steel frame double stack SN 62xxx 25 years ago, Roy's first response was "everybody made frames for those things" before it was verified and proven as shipped to Camfour ... a S&W Dealer within a few miles of S&W, for an employee in 1965.

I "think" this is a real S&W alloy frame, even further I will say, it was likely numbered " ???25 " customized for the Judge.

No harm, no foul, no baloney.

I am not "the" presiding authority, but rather a well studied collector with over 30 years of serious study and experience collecting the early pre-39s and the entire 39 series. There are others that know more or different than I but we pool our factual data and have done so for over 25 years.

You have a better chance of winning the Mega Ball lottery than this one being "the" actual serial number 25 of the standard S&W pre model 39 and model 39 serialization sequence. It would need to be 1954-1955 (a pre-39) for it to be a true SN 25 and even if it was would be subject for much scrutiny.

Even Roy Jinks Serial number 13 is NOT serial number "13" but rather a Special Order, custom, Model 39-2 numbered something like A0000013. Richard McMillan (Mac) owns it.
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  #123  
Old 09-25-2018, 04:35 AM
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I think it was mentioned earlier, but prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, there was no U.S. legal requirement to have a serial number on a firearm.

So it certainly seems reasonable to me that this pistol, (likely built and shipped in the mid 1960s) was produced by S&W with the commemorative serial number as a special order, all perfectly legal.

John
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Old 09-25-2018, 06:23 AM
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Gents, when i first posted this pistol i had no idea the responses it would generate. The only thing i was looking for was some history and a possible value.

Ive read posts on "altered" "modified" "great pretender" and everything in between. As a Marine vet, And highly decorated law enforcement officer, this made me dig my heels in and search deeper.

Ive made some new friends here wich to me is more valuable than any information that can be found on this pistol, for that i am greatfull.

No inference has been made that this is the "missing link" or anything other,,it simply is what it is...nothing more,nothing less.

I shall wait for the letter, patiently i might add, and will except the results of mr.jinks.

This forum has been a great tool for me and has helped me on another post regarding an old kit gun, and on this post as well.
Regards,

Chris

Ps rest assured if i did win the mega millions id buy you all a beer !!!

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Old 09-25-2018, 07:43 AM
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DCW is correct on a SN 25 being shipped in 1967, which is about the time frame of the OPs gun, however, the manner in which the SN is stamped, far right instead of centered over the MODEL 39 is not how it would (or should have) been stamped.

That entry is at Ledger entry 25 on a printed pre-numbered ledger sheet, followed by: "78025 12/22/1967 KM Willams OHIO"

Yes, this post has gone to an extreme but here in this forum and in the private section that only member can access, is a sub-genre, hard-core, 39 collectors' thread on pre-production 9mms (before they were named or stamped MODEL 39 until after SN 2625 appx)

For the past 40 years, at minimum, there have been stories, rumors and tales that got larger every time discussed, of pre-production models with serial numbers under SN 1001 that were gifted to certain important persons in late 1954 and early 1955.

To the average guy who buys a Model 39, as a utilitarian piece of equipment, the fore mentioned has NO interest.

I'm hoping it turns out to be a custom, special order S&W Factory-done model but it cannot be a 1955 issue.

This is basically the entire concern of the member who pointed me to this thread that is more of a conservative and posts very little if any, and, most of the hard-core 39 collectors.

If this letters as SN: 25 shipped in 1967, that does not mean the one you are holding is, in fact, that gun. It would need to be physically examined and x-rayed to verify there were no other obliterated numbers preceding the 25.

Either way, it is a unique piece, but not one of the pre-production missing links.
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  #126  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:19 PM
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The trooper's first name wasn't Jamie was it? A friend of mine fits that description, retired from the NYS troopers then was a Justice of the Peace (judge) in Skaneateles, NY. He actually performed the ceremony when my first wife and I got married.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:09 AM
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Right here, in the SWCA protal for members only, is at least some of the information you care to know about M39 SN 25.

It's real, it exists, but you gotta pay the fiddler (and it's also a darn good thing to do, overall).

Later.
I loathe getting into trouble caused by ny own actions, but dislike it more so when attributed to me is something that will get me into trouble that weren't by me. Got paddled on time by a proncipal who wasn't so interested in nailing someone for what was done as much as making a statement the whole shool could see. And I was the primary recipient if that statement every other kid got.

So, I tend to clean matters up and quickly if at all possible when I've been fingered as "Da guy what done it."

No, I did not make any statement that the Model 39 SN 25 was shipped in 1967, even though I was aware of its location.

By omitting the details I was hoping the owner of the Model 39, SN 25 might click to the portal, donate its reasonable fee and join it.

The entirety of what was wrutten by yours truly precedes this.

Later.
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  #128  
Old 09-27-2018, 05:42 AM
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I appologize for not understanding this forums rules, i didnt understand your post completely, i thought you ment to pay for the letter.

I did in fact donate in order to post the pictures, if there is section of this forum to join i will gladly donate and join.

If you can direct me to the correct area i will do so immediatly. I appologize for my ignorance.

Regards,
Chris
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Old 09-27-2018, 06:04 AM
kharmakid kharmakid is offline
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Application letter has been downloaded, and will be in the mail by close of business today,
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:10 PM
M14sRock M14sRock is offline
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Great thread. I'm looking forward to seeing what the letter says.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kharmakid View Post
I appologize for not understanding this forums rules, i didnt understand your post completely, i thought you ment to pay for the letter.

I did in fact donate in order to post the pictures, if there is section of this forum to join i will gladly donate and join.

If you can direct me to the correct area i will do so immediatly. I appologize for my ignorance.

Regards,
Chris
DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF, Chris. IT TAKES A WHILE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S OPERANT HERE......

I'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A MINUTE, AND MUCH OF IT IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE. I OCCASIONALLY STEP INTO DOO-DOO, BUT I TRY NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE......

IN ANY EVENT, I HAVE YOUR SIX..........
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:49 PM
kharmakid kharmakid is offline
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Roger that brother!!!!
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:23 PM
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Got question. My 39 has forward facing aberrations, long extractor and barrel is 9mm ctg. Has 6 digit serial# but shows model 39, no dash.Read where this should be 39-2. Serial#109,6XX. What am I missing?
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:32 PM
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Got question. My 39 has forward facing aberrations, long extractor and barrel is 9mm ctg. Has 6 digit serial# but shows model 39, no dash.Read where this should be 39-2. Serial#109,6XX. What am I missing?
Model 39s go into the 110000s where the 39-2s start but there are overlaps and transitional changes to the 39-2.

Yours is just fine yet I have a 39-2 SN: 109000 NIB (has a hand stamped -2) after the MODEL 39
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Old 10-05-2018, 12:22 AM
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You may have tongue in cheek but just in case...

This is a common belief but I've searched for years to find any shred of documentary evidence for such a practice to no avail. I've interviewed Special Forces personnel and they deny having unmarked small arms. Roy Jinks has flatly denied that S&W would agree to such a practice. Documented covert missions, e.g. Gary Powers flight in the U-2, involved a High Standard silenced pistol with all the usual markings. In fact all of the HDMS pistols known have complete markings including U.S. PROPERTY. The so called "Hush Puppy" pistols based on Model 39-2 platforms have markings. Colt PHA pistols used by the OSS and CIA have markings. At best, Special Forces have been known to use Walthers, Browning HPs and AKs that were not marked "U.S." but primarily because they wanted those calibers or platforms for other reasons.

I would welcome any hard evidence that covert operators have ever used "sterile" weaponry, i.e. no markings. I'm still open to the possibility but the usual "proof" is along the lines of "my sister's second cousin's 3rd husband was a secret squirrel and swore that he used an unmarked S&W with bullets filled with disappearing ink."
My 2nd and 3rd tour in RVN I was a MACV/CORDS Phoenix Advisor as a Cpt,USA. I came out of country in Feb 73 and brought with me a Walther PPK/S with an extended threaded barrel, fully marked with serial number. I can't say it was an 'issue' weapon, but it came through channels and after the cease fire there was no turn in necessary. It is a 'war trophy' with all the paperwork
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:14 AM
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Welcome home!!!
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:24 AM
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WELCOME HOME, BROTHER ! ! !

THAT'S AN INTERESTING STORY, AND WEAPON. I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING A WALTHER IN COUNTRY. THAT'S PRETTY NEAT....

I OPERATED TOP SECRET CRYPTO GEAR, THAT WAS SERVICED BY CIVILIAN CONTRACTORS WHEN IT BROKE DOWN, BEYOND MY CAPABILITY. THEY WERE MAKING SERIOUS MONEY, AND LIVING LARGE IN SAIGON. I WAS OUT IN A 2 1/2 TON, JUST INSIDE THE WIRE ON HWY 1, ABOUT 20 KLICKS NORTH OF LONG BINH......

THEY LOOKED LIKE CIA TYPES, AND MOST OF THEM CARRIED BEAUTIFUL NON-GI WEAPONS, IN CUSTOM RIGS, THAT I DROOLED OVER......
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:58 PM
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A friend of mine, captain john early an sf type and survivor of lang vei,favored 2 distinct weapons one was a mk22mod0 with detatchable wire stock the other was a swedish k, he loved the mk22 but didnt care for the can, wipes and capsule needed to be changed after 20-25 rds, but that ol 39 never let him down!!
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Old 10-07-2018, 02:53 AM
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A friend of mine, captain john early an sf type and survivor of lang vei,favored 2 distinct weapons one was a mk22mod0 with detatchable wire stock the other was a swedish k, he loved the mk22 but didnt care for the can, wipes and capsule needed to be changed after 20-25 rds, but that ol 39 never let him down!!
INTERESTING---DUDES LIKE YOUR FRIEND CAPTAIN JOHN, ARE THE REAL DEAL. THEY DESERVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF RESPECT.......
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:21 AM
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Waiting for a letter to arrive... and info from SWCA and.. others..

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Old 10-07-2018, 06:27 AM
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It is indeed a "nail-biter,,mike!! Up untill this i thought i was a patient man but now i find myself sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for an outcome.

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