4516-1 Recoil spring Q

[18DAI]

I couldn't find the answer using search here. Does the Wolf Springs replacement recoil spring for the 4516-1 fit properly and function in the gun without stacking?

I seem to recall that it does not. I know you can convert a 4516-1 to use the thin guide rod and dual spring set up - IF you have a bushing.

Also, if the Wolfe replacement does work, what weight? 17lb or 19lb? Thanks all!

Im looking at a 4516-1. Early production with flash chromed hammer and trigger. I had a late production 4516-1 years ago. But foolishly sold it when I thinned the herd. I'm thinking a 4516-1 would bridge the gap between my 4516 ND and my 4516-3. Sort of a "goldilocks" 45 carry piece. Regards 18DAI

[ColColt]

Not a concrete answer but gunsprings.com says 16# was standard.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm...s&cID=1&mID=58

[18DAI]

Thank you Col!

[BMCM]

It's been a while but I seen to recall coil bind in my dash1 gun when trying out Wolff springs. I quickly binned that idea and eventually fit the gun with a flatwire setup. In my experience Wolff uses fatter wire then that used by S&W in the factory springs. I've had the same experience with the 4566 size guns where the Wolff replacement spring would coil bind.

And... I don't give much credence to their spring weight recommendations either. For example, per the factory parts book, the 4506 & 1006 use the same spring but Wolff lists the 4506 at 14# and the 1006 at 18# for factory standard

There's a similar issue for the 4566/1066... While Wolff & S&W agree these two guns use the same spring, Wolff lists 17# as factory standard. So, according to Wolff, the bigger gun uses a heavier spring, 1006 calls for 18# whereas the 1066 get a lighter 17#

Coil bind or spring stack is especially problematic for the aluminum three piece spring guides. In a case of coil bind, impact forces from halting the slide are transmitted through the stacked spring into the staked guiderod head and absorbed by the guiderod seat in the frame instead of the frame's impact abutment. This'll beat the head of your guiderod loose in relatively short short order.

I'd recommend adapting the gun to use either a flatwire or the OEM nested spring set.

Cheers
Bill

[ColColt]

I remember you, BMCM!! You're that great fellow who told me the problem I had with my 4516-1 some years ago was due to my having the recoil spring turned backward. Once corrected, all was happy again. Still, after all this time can't thank you enough.

I never knew you could have a recoil spring backwards. Looking at the old S&W spring, I still can't tell a differnce in it but the Wolf replacement looked a mite different.

[Jeppo]

Originally Posted by ColColt

I remember you, BMCM!! You're that great fellow who told me the problem I had with my 4516-1 some years ago was due to my having the recoil spring turned backward. Once corrected, all was happy again. Still, after all this time can't thank you enough.

I never knew you could have a recoil spring backwards.

I didn’t know that either. I have a recently acquired 4516-1 and wonder whether one of you could explain the symptoms and how to tell one end from the other.

Thanks!!

[ColColt]

Perhaps BMCM can explain it better than I ever could. It seems that thread was back in 2012 when I bought a new Wolf spring and replaced the old S&W spring since I didn't know how old it was. That's when the problem of FTF came and I inquired on the forum and was told, IIRC, it basically was installed backwards.

After that, no more problems. I thought I had another spring to look at but in searching thru my stash of parts for this pistol could only find where I'd ordered a Calibration set of springs from Wolf. I've never used them since the one I installed correctly worked.

Wish I could find that thread again.

[ColColt]

Aha!! A little research turned up that thread for me. This was Bill's response in a nutshell about the Wolf spring..... back in 2013.

"Anyway I believe your problem is related to the recoil spring. Flip that Wolff sucker around so the tight end is on the rod first and remains stationary. Lube up the guide-rod with a quality gun grease. And go test her out. Oil is ok for things that rotate like your trigger pin or hammer pin, sear pin etc. Things that slide and move vigorously tend to shed oil pretty quickly then they're basically running dry. Thus the need for a lube that stays put, a bit of grease on the slide rails, barrel camming shoulders and especially that soft alloy guide-rod is what I recommend and use on all my 3rd gens. I'll stay tuned for the next firing report."

4516-1 and FTRTB Problems

[BMCM]

Originally Posted by ColColt

I remember you, BMCM!! You're that great fellow who told me the problem I had with my 4516-1 some years ago was due to my having the recoil spring turned backward. Once corrected, all was happy again. Still, after all this time can't thank you enough.

I never knew you could have a recoil spring backwards. Looking at the old S&W spring, I still can't tell a differnce in it but the Wolf replacement looked a mite different.

And I remember you... Good to see you back ColColt

What you had back then from Wolff was a chopped 1911 spring.
A factory S&W spring for that gun has a closed coil on each end and uniform ID throughout it's length, works fine no matter which way its oriented.

On the other hand, a 1911 pattern spring like you had/have is open coil on one end and a reduced ID closed coil on the other. This permits the tight closed coil end to stay affixed to the spring guide. Why JMB designed it that way I can't say. However, that pattern spring can be troublesome when turned the wrong way 'round when used with a full length guiderod. If you have the tight end out front, it creates a huge amount of drag on the guiderod as the slide cycles since the tight end cannot slide freely along the guiderod.



Top spring must be oriented with the tight coil to the rear.

Bottom spring...works properly no matter how its oriented.

Cheers
Bill

[ColColt]

You never ever get too old to learn something, which I did that day and didn't forget! I still have that old S&W spring I saved and yes, there is surely a difference between it and the Wolf jobbie. If they're still turning them out like the one(s) I got, this info should be invaluable to them so they won't make the mistake I did.

I had to stay away from any hobby I had for three years due to my little boy(Welsh Corgi) developing an incurable, progressive disease that seems to hit them all too often called DM(Dengenerative Myelopathy). It knocks out the rear legs first one at a time then goes on to the front legs followed by attacking the organs and respiratory system. That's what happened with him just months ago. It basically attacks the central nervous system in pure breeds with the Corgi being at the top of the list.

I couldn't concentrate on shooting or anything else for being concerned about leaving him at home a few hours so, I just quit everything to help him around the clock...never regretted a minute of doing so.

I just changed my avatar in his honor.

[BLUEDOT37]

I've run up to a Wolff 21# recoil spring in my 4516-1 with no clearance issues, IE: didn't need to have any coils cut off because the slide was stopping on the spring instead of the frame abutment.

However that spring (& the 23#) comes with one end open which I think is wrong & complained to them about. I bent mine inward to give it a flater contact point. The 19# is okay, as you can see below.

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It's been my opinion that the 14# recoil spring Wolff lists as standard weight for the 4506 equates to the wadcutter spring S&W included with those pistols. Who knows?

The 4-1/4" barreled pistols are the ones I've found I need to trim a coil or two off of the Wolff recoil springs for a proper fit. The 19# & below were fine but the 20# & 22# had to be cut. When I questioned Wolff on it they apologized & said they found those springs were 1.5 turns too long, would issue me a credit, & order new ones to the correct specs.

Since the ISMI flat springs weren't designed for the 3rd Gens I've found they needed trimming, in certain models, too.

So my rule now is whenever I replace/upgrade a recoil spring I double check it's fit.

.

[Dpris]

So..... what do I do for a recoil spring for my 4516-2?
Denis

[jsbethel]

Originally Posted by Dpris

So..... what do I do for a recoil spring for my 4516-2?

The factory nested spring set is still available.

Smith & Wesson Recoil Spring Inside S&W 4013TSW - MPN: 108670000

Smith & Wesson Recoil Spring Outside S&W 4013TSW - MPN: 108660000

[Dpris]

And those'll function OK in my -2?
I have no idea what the differences are, just know the mags are specific to -2.
Denis

[jsbethel]

Much information here - 4516 vs. 4516-1 vs. 4516-2

[Dpris]

Thanks!
Probably been 22 years since I was inside that thing, I didn't even recall a double spring set-up.
Denis

[ColColt]

Holy Smoke!! I got curious about my 4516-1 magazines and had forgotten if I had two or three. I went down to the safe downstairs and discovered I have seven of them!! I must have stocked up some years ago and just forgot.

I think I'm good to go for a while.

What I wish S&W had done with the 4516-1 is incorporate a steel rather than an aluminum guide rod.