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09-17-2018, 01:44 PM
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HOW LONG OKAY TO KEEP MAGAZINE LOADED?
Hey Everyone. Any opinions on how long it's okay/safe to keep a loaded magazine in a semi auto?? Will springs lose resistance if kept in there too long?? Should I rotate magazines after certain amount of time?? Thanx in advance for opinions/advice, JG
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09-17-2018, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG1947
Hey Everyone. Any opinions on how long it's okay/safe to keep a loaded magazine in a semi auto?? Will springs lose resistance if kept in there too long?? Should I rotate magazines after certain amount of time?? Thanx in advance for opinions/advice, JG
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Forever is generally fine. There will soon be lots of scholarly metallurgy and anecdotal asides on each side of the issue posted here . . .
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09-17-2018, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Forever is generally fine.
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I second that.
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09-17-2018, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Forever is generally fine. There will soon be lots of scholarly metallurgy and anecdotal asides on each side of the issue posted here . . .
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I used to believe the old wives tales about loaded mags having their springs weaken over time.
Back in 1977 I had some SIG P220 mags with spring so overpowered that if fully loaded, the nose of the top cartridge would dive down as the slide went forward.
So I kept them loaded waiting for the springs to weaken, I tried them after a year and then waited some more . . . 41 years later I am still waiting
Those same original magazines do the same thing today after being kept fully loaded for more than four decades.
I have no doubts that quality magazines can be left loaded for the lifetime of the firearm owner with out their being an issue
All the spring manufacturers will tell you different, but they have an ulterior motive, they are trying to get you to buy springs more than once in a lifetime
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09-17-2018, 02:35 PM
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I'm with Muss Muggins, as long as there is not a "lubrication" or corrosion problem. As Muss said, there will be scholarly input on this side, as well as on the other, and anecdotes on both, also. My anecdote is second hand, from the gentleman my uncle's age who gave me a rather unusual H&R Model 195. He was given a 1911 magazine brought back from the first World War by a vet who thought he was also bringing back a 1911, only the pistol itself somehow disappeared before he could get his hands on it. Anyhow, my friend eventually got this fully loaded (7) mag, and, in the fifties or sixties, stuck it into a 1911 and proceeded to fire all seven rounds without a hitch.
I don't know much about metallurgy, but I'm pretty sure that Colt does.
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09-17-2018, 03:24 PM
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Thank you everyone, I guess I get the message
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09-17-2018, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG1947
Thank you everyone, I guess I get the message
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Which is not to say that springs never wear out. I agree with the posters above but I had a Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless .380 ACP, made in 1917 I believe, and in the 1980s when I acquired it the magazine's spring was worn out and it would NOT lift a round all the way into the receiver for a second shot. EVERY TIME. Shoot. Re-rack. Shoot. Re-rack. Etc.
I leave my magazines in guns that I carry or frequently use or plan to use loaded all the time so I definitely agree with the folks posting above. I just wanted to point out that exceptions to everything always exist.
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09-17-2018, 04:05 PM
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Springs only wear out by movement, not by being stationary.
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09-17-2018, 04:25 PM
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If they wore out when static, every car on the road more than a few years old would need springs.
I have fired ammo that was stored in original 1911 mags from 1917 till recently. All the ammo fired, all the mags worked just fine. Locked the slide back when empty in modern pistols. Mind you these were old school music wire mag springs.
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09-17-2018, 04:46 PM
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My Gen 1 duty Glock mags have sat fully loaded since forever. During the monthly audit last week it was noted that the one that sits in the pistol most of the time seemed a bit weaker, in fact the auditor emptied it and counted the rounds to ensure we hadn’t lost one.
Still works though, but next time it’s due for an annual armourers servicing I might get them to replace it.
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Last edited by Kiwi cop; 09-17-2018 at 04:50 PM.
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09-17-2018, 04:54 PM
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This topic was put to bed recently on spring fatigue. The name of the manufacture escapes me that offered the following info.Spring fatigue comes form being compressed and relieved over and over again.Fatigue does not come form a constant compressed or relieved state.These findings were discussed in great length by some pretty well known other gun forums dedicated to semi autos.
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09-17-2018, 05:19 PM
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Why NOT rotate?
if one ever practices with their gun, why not have 2 magazines? Since we're assuming a magazine has been loaded with SD loads "awhile", and presumably, we're going to practice with the gun someday, why not have at least one additional magazine so that we can unload the SD rounds from mag 1 and load them into mag 2 while we shoot practice rounds from mag 1. Wouldn't it be nice to have 2 mags that we trust to feed our SD rounds?
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09-17-2018, 05:35 PM
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My department issued Gen 2 Glock 23 was retired w/me in ‘97 and I put it, along w/all three loaded mags, in my safe for 10 years w/o touching it. When I finally did take it to the range (finally decided to get LEOSA qualified) it ran just fine, not a single hiccup. This is not something I would do w/my LCP but for service caliber I’m guessing it should be fine.
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09-17-2018, 05:40 PM
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09-17-2018, 07:03 PM
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Like I posted earlier . . .
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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
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09-17-2018, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03hemi
Springs only wear out by movement, not by being stationary.
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That's why I switched to a Sleep Number.
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09-18-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
... and anecdotal asides on each side of the issue posted here . . .
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Wouldn't want to disappoint.
In 2011, moving stuff around, I found an ammo pouch of AR15 mags I'd loaded in 1981. Took them to the range and they fed just fine....
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09-18-2018, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG1947
Thank you everyone, I guess I get the message
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Oh, they're just getting started.
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09-18-2018, 09:07 PM
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"What's the best gun lube?"
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09-18-2018, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
"What's the best gun lube?"
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Bacon grease - that way a good day at the range also smells like a good breakfast.
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09-18-2018, 09:15 PM
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I leave all my mags unloaded for long periods of time as I have so many of them for my m41 and M46. I rotate them every week that I shoot these handguns. I own at least 12 mags for these two guns and at least 5-6 for my 45APC as well. My 357 is a 8shot wheel gun so NO mags needed for it at all.
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09-18-2018, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa
I used to believe the old wives tales about loaded mags having their springs weaken over time.
Back in 1977 I had some SIG P220 mags with spring so overpowered that if fully loaded, the nose of the top cartridge would dive down as the slide went forward.
So I kept them loaded waiting for the springs to weaken, I tried them after a year and then waited some more . . . 41 years later I am still waiting
Those same original magazines do the same thing today after being kept fully loaded for more than four decades.
I have no doubts that quality magazines can be left loaded for the lifetime of the firearm owner with out their being an issue
All the spring manufacturers will tell you different, but they have an ulterior motive, they are trying to get you to buy springs more than once in a lifetime
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Why not clip off a few coils, going carefully by doing one at a time, shoot a few rounds, and clip more as necessary.
Never understood people's reluctance to try such a simple operation.
Kahr pistols are the worst. I have had to cut a third of the coils off on several magazines to get them to work.
There is no excuse for having to shoot 200 rounds of ammo per Kahr's recommendation, and clip a bunch of coils get their guns to work considering what they charge for a gun.
Neither S&W, Springfield Armory, or Glock requires a break-in period. And their magazines almost always work.
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09-18-2018, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter
Why not clip off a few coils, going carefully by doing one at a time, shoot a few rounds, and clip more as necessary.
Never understood people's reluctance to try such a simple operation.
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For the rest of the shooting public, if you choose to so butcher a magazine, please make sure you notify the potential purchaser when you sell the pistol . . .
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09-18-2018, 10:29 PM
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Estoy de acuerdo con usted yo tengo los cargadores de mi SIG SAUER P220 completos desde varios años y nunca tienen problemas.Lo mismo con mi BALLESTER MOLINA calibre .45 que llevan 35 años completos sin ningun defecto.
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09-19-2018, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonardocarrillo
Estoy de acuerdo con usted yo tengo los cargadores de mi SIG SAUER P220 completos desde varios años y nunca tienen problemas.Lo mismo con mi BALLESTER MOLINA calibre .45 que llevan 35 años completos sin ningun defecto.
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"Agree with you. I have the Chargers (magazines) of my SIG SAUER P220 complete for several years and never have problems. The same with my BALLESTER MOLINA caliber. 45 that carry 35 full years without any defect."
Gracias .
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09-19-2018, 05:14 AM
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I worry more about the ammo, than I do the springs.
Bought a Beretta 92 off a busy that needed the money.
It was barely a year old ( I was there when he bought it) and he lived in Florida and the humidity got to it. The copper jackets turned green and stuck together inside the mag. Nothing hard to fix and clean, but sure wouldn't feed correctly if he grabbed it in that condition in a emergency.
So it's always good to rotate fresh ammo or at least inspect them every so often.
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09-19-2018, 07:31 AM
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Moisture can be an issue with it corroding the ammo and rusting the spring and magazine, but if stored in a dry environment, a magazine can be left fully loaded for decades, if the spring is of reasonable quality.
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09-19-2018, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
For the rest of the shooting public, if you choose to so butcher a magazine, please make sure you notify the potential purchaser when you sell the pistol . . .
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I don't think the term " butcher " applies here.
If clipping a few coils changes the magazine from one that malfunctions to one that works, I am doing the next owner a favor. Believe me, there is still plenty of tension left.
There is no reason for magazine spring tension to be as high as some of them are nowadays. Especially in single-stacks.
The Kahr magazine springs I have modified were 3 times the length of the magazine body when the parts were disassembled and laid alongside each other.
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09-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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We will agree to disagree. Not knowing anything about magazine manufacture, I like to assume that the nice engineer fellas knew what they were doing. Too many times I (and others, I'm sure) have been the ultimate victim of a previous owner's Dremel tool . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter
I don't think the term " butcher " applies here.
If clipping a few coils changes the magazine from one that malfunctions to one that works, I am doing the next owner a favor. Believe me, there is still plenty of tension left.
There is no reason for magazine spring tension to be as high as some of them are nowadays. Especially in single-stacks.
The Kahr magazine springs I have modified were 3 times the length of the magazine body when the parts were disassembled and laid alongside each other.
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09-19-2018, 12:29 PM
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I asked my PhD Metallurgist friend about keeping magazines loaded. Here is his reply:
As is usual with situations like these, there is no easy answer. As far as I can determine, these are the factors involved.
Gun magazine springs are generally made of spring steel. These are fairly high-carbon steels (0.50-0.60% C) and have other alloying elements like Mn, Cr, and V. The Cr and V affect the ability of the steel to attain hardness under heat treatment (hardenability to us metallurgists).
Apparently, spring steels vary in quality (one factor of which is chemical composition), which may be a reason for the difference in observed behavior.
Another reason for varying behavior could be the heat treatment. Generally, items like springs are heat treated in batches. After heat treatment, a certain number are tested, and if they pass the specifications, the batch is considered OK. This statistical testing scheme can fail to catch the ones that are too soft or too hard.
Therefore, if you got a gun magazine spring made of good material that was heat treated properly, you will probably not see weakening. But if you have a spring that was not manufactured to high quality standards, you could see weakening. I suppose that cheap magazines would have lower-quality springs.
The links below discuss gun magazine springs.
Magazine Springs - Quality Spring, Affordable Prices
What You Should Know About Magazine Springs | Gun Belts Blog
Spring Steels :: Total Materia Article
My own experience is with Ruger 10-round magazines for the 10/22 and the Butler Creek 25-round magazines. The 10-round magazines have a coil spring, much like a clock spring. After about two to three years (perhaps about 10,000 to 15,000 rounds), I notice that the rounds do not feed as forcefully as they once did.
For the Butler Creek 25-round magazine. I've noticed that there is also a decrease in the force of the feed. The above indicate that the springs are weakening with use.
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09-19-2018, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonardocarrillo
Estoy de acuerdo con usted yo tengo los cargadores de mi SIG SAUER P220 completos desde varios años y nunca tienen problemas.Lo mismo con mi BALLESTER MOLINA calibre .45 que llevan 35 años completos sin ningun defecto.
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English Vaquero, cause this is Merica!
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09-19-2018, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
Forever is generally fine. There will soon be lots of scholarly metallurgy and anecdotal asides on each side of the issue posted here . . .
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Guess that answers it, and the thread should be closed.
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09-19-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunhobbit
Bacon grease - that way a good day at the range also smells like a good breakfast.
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Sure, turn this into a “bear gun” thread!
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09-19-2018, 01:28 PM
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Take two brand new magazines today, and load one. Come back in a year and inspect the springs. The one that was loaded will be noticeably shorter. This is called spring set. Load that same magazine, and then come back a year later, and it will be a smidgen shorter than it was last year. Eventually, the spring will "balance out" and wont get noticeably shorter, year after year, once the spring has already taken a set.
Every gun is different. Use one type of gun for a few years and the spring will be slap worn out. Use another type of gun for 40 years and the spring will still be strong. There are too many variables here at play.
Basically, if the gun is a plinker or is otherwise not used for defensive purposes, then who cares. But if you use that gun for defensive use, I would inspect the springs yearly or every other year. When it starts getting weak, swap the spring out for a new one.
In the case of my Glock magazines, new magazines are cheap. I just sell off my old magazines every 4-5 years, and replace them with new ones. I can buy ten new magazines for about $170, and sell off all my old ones at $15 a piece. $20 to replace all my "old" mags every 5 years, and have new magazines, with new springs, is a bargain.
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09-19-2018, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter
Why not clip off a few coils, going carefully by doing one at a time, shoot a few rounds, and clip more as necessary.
Never understood people's reluctance to try such a simple operation.
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I have no problems clipping coils.
However, I wanted to test the old wives tale about leaving magazines loaded.
At the time I had 10 additional magazines for my P220s that worked perfectly
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09-19-2018, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG1947
Hey Everyone. Any opinions on how long it's okay/safe to keep a loaded magazine in a semi auto?? Will springs lose resistance if kept in there too long?? Should I rotate magazines after certain amount of time?? Thanx in advance for opinions/advice, JG
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I SHOT 6 FULL GI MAGS OF .45ACP BALL AMMO, WITHOUT A HITCH, FROM MY 1911.....
I FOUND THEM, ALONG WITH SOME BAYONETS, IN AN ABANDONED WW II COASTAL FORTIFICATION, SOME 50 YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE WAR........
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09-19-2018, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
We will agree to disagree. Not knowing anything about magazine manufacture, I like to assume that the nice engineer fellas knew what they were doing. Too many times I (and others, I'm sure) have been the ultimate victim of a previous owner's Dremel tool . . .
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I inspect, evaluate, and repair shockingly expensive and very close tolerance turbine aircraft engine component parts for a living, using precision instruments, and a LOT of hand work with fine abrasives, needle files, polishing by hand, etc.
I also know about performance testing, the subtleties of temperature effects on metals, and friction and proper clearance dimensions. I am accustomed to working on items/components that people's lives depend on in the military and civilian world.
I am no master gunsmith, nor claim to be.
But I think I do okay on magazines and magazine springs.
Last edited by smoothshooter; 09-20-2018 at 01:07 AM.
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09-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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Good for your lifetime, maybe a little longer.............
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09-19-2018, 07:12 PM
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Wolff Gun Springs
The OEM spring supplier for many fine firearms made in the USA
No SW and Ruger don't have their own spring companies, Neither does Wilson Combat or Jerry
But what do they know?
https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=FAQ#question5
5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?
Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.
Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.
More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.
In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.
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09-19-2018, 08:41 PM
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After reading everything above.......
I don't think I'll keep mine loaded beyond forever.
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09-19-2018, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkabug
After reading everything above.......
I don't think I'll keep mine loaded beyond forever.
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Probably safest that way, yes.
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09-25-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
I like to assume that the nice engineer fellas knew what they were doing.
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If all of the magazine engineers know what they are doing, all of the Pro Mags would operate perfectly.
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I'm with her
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10-01-2018, 07:06 AM
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SCCY CPX CPX 1/2 mags after a year of use you can make the 10 round mags 11 round mags. I got the Wolfe spring for my 669 but sold the gun before I installed it. My only other experience/issues with mags are 1911s. usually a completely different issue all together.
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10-01-2018, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex1001
If all of the magazine engineers know what they are doing, all of the Pro Mags would operate perfectly.
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Who's saying Pro Mag employees magazine engineers . . . ?
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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
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10-01-2018, 11:32 AM
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If anyone doubts whether springs weaken under a load over time find a Jeep CJ/YJ with the original suspension and look at it.
Magazine springs are fairly inexpensive; I will not risk my life over the price of a spring.
I have a few mags. I have probably acquired 12-15 more since I took these photos.
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10-01-2018, 11:35 AM
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My Sig Sauer P-6 is from the Communist Side of Germany way back. All of the magazines with it have been kept fully loaded and ready for armed conflict.
NONE have ever failed.Ever.
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10-23-2018, 09:11 PM
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I rotate my magazines, so the springs can rest when not in use
keep three and use them regularly at the range, save three to use when I rotate them
there is no guarantee your magazine will remain reliable if kept loaded for extended time periods, some may go bad, some might not, you never know.
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10-24-2018, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColbyBruce
If anyone doubts whether springs weaken under a load over time find a Jeep CJ/YJ with the original suspension and look at it.
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Well, find one that's never bounced up and down regularly and has just sat on a lot with a static load and you might have a different opinion . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
There will soon be lots of scholarly metallurgy and anecdotal asides on each side of the issue posted here . . .
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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Last edited by Muss Muggins; 10-24-2018 at 10:22 AM.
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10-24-2018, 10:28 AM
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My Glock 23 service pistol was retired w/me in 1997 and I put it in a safe for 10 years w/all three mags loaded. When I finally took everything to the range there were no problems.
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10-24-2018, 11:18 AM
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MAGAZINES
I've read a bunch of these threads and the best information I've got from them is this,
Springs have a compression limit. If you compress a spring beyond that limit it will deform immediately and it will never work right again. If you compress a spring close to that limit it becomes susceptible to "creep strain" which will eventually cause it to fail.
The majority of gun manufacturers design their magazines so that even when fully loaded the load never approaches that compression limit. The problem is more with the off brand magazines like Pro Mags.
Having said that, magazines are expendable. Buy spares
Even though my research indicates that it's really not necessary, I keep enough magazines on hand for a given gun that I can put them through a long rotation cycle. 1 year loaded /5 years in the box. At that rate they should out last Methusala.
The question of "fatigue limits" and "creep strain" (which apparently is only a factor at 4X the melting point (Degrees Kelvin) of a given metal) is discussed in detail here
Does static tension wear out a spring? | Physics Forums
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Last edited by Smoke; 10-06-2020 at 05:59 PM.
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