Howdy Gents...

Well now, I've got this big10 on the healing bench for a checkup and one of the known issues...the trigger play spring is kaput!

The trigger play spring is that little copper colored thingy riveted to the forward end of your drawbar. Now that thingy is not actually copper but is in fact steel...sticks quite nicely to a magnet. The coloring is an effect of the heat treatment after it was punched & formed.

Anyway that spring is pretty thin and easily bent out of shape. It mics at 0.008" thick. If one goes scrubbing about vigorously in there with some implement like an M16 toothbrush, One is liable to mangle that spring. You can also wreck it by cocking the hammer and getting behind the trigger and pushing the trigger forward. Although I have no idea why someone would do that.

What you ought to know is once you have exceeded the "elastic limit' of the material, well... it's permanently buggered. Elastic Limit??? what the hell is that? you might ask. Well imagine a piece of straight steel rod, like a piece of wire coat hanger perhaps. Take it in hand and bend it a few degrees then release, it springs back straight right?. Now take and bend it a bunch, like 90° or so and release, Stays bent now doesn't it. You've exceeded the elastic limit of the steel.

That same principle applies to this tiny leaf spring. Bend it out of shape too far and it stays bent. You can try bending it back into shape but at this point is has been permanently weakened and will not stay there for long. The best course of action is to simply replace it, which happens to be where we are right now.

Yup, that's gonna have to come outa there:


Not going to go into excavating the drawbar... Suffice to say it's a bit tedious getting it outa there. Except for a few bits, you basically need to detail strip the frame. But once you have it in hand were gonna need a little four square file with a safe edge to cut the head off that rivet.


This four square file has a safe side. It's a square file but only cuts on three sides. I hold the drawbar in a machinists clamp and position the file so the safe side is facing the slot for the trigger hooks. That way should I slip while cutting on the rivet and hit that slot, no damage done. Just file at it until the rivet head is gone.


Then take a little 1/16" pin punch and tap out the remnant.


So far so good.


No for the fix... You'll need this stuff. New play spring & rivet, a flat file with safe edges, and a small ball pien hammer. if you don't have a good small hammer a center punch can be helpful in starting to upset the rivet then carry on with what ever hammer you have that'll fit in there.


Oh and a vise of course. You're gonna clamp the file in the vise with a safe edge up and enough sticking up above the jaws to support the drawbar while you're beating on it Note the copper sheeting the keep the hardened steel vise jaws off the file so we don't ruin it.


Position your new parts in the drawbar. Small forceps are handy for getting the rivet in position. A sharp eye may note that this aint the drawbar we started with. Well that's cause that drawbar was junk and headed for the scrap bin. But that's another story.


Now over to the vise. Invert the assembly of parts onto the file edge. Use those forceps or something to keep the rivet from falling out as you turn it over.


Then take you're little ball pien hammer and gently upset the rivet.


Pro Tip: Just get the rivet snug such that it's just tight enough to permit turning the spring. Then flip the drawbar over and make sure the spring is not cocked to one side or the other. Straighten it as needed then turn back over head down against the file and carry on finishing upsetting the rivet snugging everything up.

All done and ready ready to go in the gun.


Cheers
Bill

__________________
Because they don't make a .46

Guys, Bill did this for the trigger play spring in my 4566 a couple of months ago. Seeing how he did it impresses me to no end -- the specific tooling, the obvious care, and most of all, the knowledge of what to do and what not to do. He is a master craftsman, and the pictures and description speak more highly of his work than any words I could cobble together to recommend him.

Thanks again, my friend.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

When I win the lottery, I'm sending all my "clicky" 3rd Gens down to BMCM for new trigger play springs.

*
Fixed it for you.

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NHI, 10-8.

"Upset the rivet." If you hit me with a ball pean hammer, I'd be upset too!

On more serious note, that's a very nice tutorial. That makes it look doable for someone who has moderate skill and some pretty common tools.

The only clicky trigger play spring I had was on a 457 that I recently sold. It did the pencil eraser fix on it a few years ago and it was fine after that until I sold it.

If had one that broke, it would be heading to MS as soon as I could arrange it. I heard a rumor that there's a guy down that who is pretty handy with these "obsolete" semi auto pistols.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Great job! Where did you get the spring? My 4506 developed the "click" and I cured it by fine polishing the "V" notch in the draw bar but I probably also need to replace my spring. I had no idea they were still available!

When I took down the 908 to replace the sear spring and disconnector, I noticed that tiny spring on the drawbar. I vividly remember saying out loud, "How in the world (no, that wasn't the precise word I uttered) would I ever replace one of those?"

Thanks for another excellent tutorial.

If my memory serves (doubtful as it may be), wassn't there an agency that specifically requested this little spring NOT be installed in their pistols? I am pretty sure I read about it here on this forum.

Road trip!!! I'm ready!

You know we kid about it, but it's the only way to get our beloved-but-clicky 3rd Gens down to BMCM without incurring incurring a staggering amount in shipping and transfer fees. I would conservatively say that 1/3 to 1/2 of my 3rd Gen fleet could use BMCM's services in that regard... but I'd be broke before the guns even got to him.

And then there's the other (even bigger) issue. Once I would have managed to get the guns down to him, you know damn well that we're not going to just stop at trigger play spring replacement. That would barely be the beginning!

This is why I've said in the past: If only BMCM were my next door neighbor! Hey, I can dream, can't I?

If he were my neighbor, he'd end up owning my house!

You know the man's an expert when he makes it look SO easy you foolishly say to yourself:

"I bet I could do that"

LOL

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

A couple thoughts.

First, a while back I noticed on one parts vendor website that they were apparently selling bright "stainless" colored factory trigger play springs. FWIW, back when as the factory was finishing fine-tuning the FBI guns, they developed a bright & shiny, plain colored spring which was supposedly stronger than the copper colored springs. I never learned the alloy used to make it. Supposedly, it kept its tension better and better addressed the "trigger click" in the FBI's 10mm guns, and had been created for their guns. It wasn't a normal stock part.

The interesting part ...

It didn't have a part number, and the LE contacts and parts guys with whom I talked didn't even know it existed. (I asked a couple of them.) I only found out about it (and saw one) when attending an armorer class hosted by another S&W armorer at another agency, who was pretty senior to me. He gave me a name and a number to call at the factory. I called and left a message. When I got a return call, the first question I was asked was where and how I'd learned of the spring's existence.

I told him (of course). He chuckled and asked me how many I wanted. Let's just say I got enough to replace the springs in my own 9, .40 & .45 guns, and some guns belonging to a couple friends and family.

Anyway, the picture of the springs I saw on some parts vendor website looked like the same spring (no copper color), and it wouldn't surprise me if when S&W was selling off a lot of their excess 3rd gen parts stock, that the remaining supply of those older trigger play springs got pulled out from whatever desk they'd been kept, and they were sold off, too.

Now, also bear in mind that the trigger play spring only reduces the single action "slop" of the reset/cocked trigger, and has even been removed from some guns (like those of the original CHP 4006's, after a while). The last contract for the CHP 4006TSW's were even produced, at their request, without trigger play springs installed in the drawbars. The guns function without them, with or without the "click".

The "click", BTW, isn't limited to the 10/.45 guns, although I was told that something about the width of the 10/.45 frame and the standard drawbar seemed more likely to sometimes lend itself to it happening. I've also seen it occur in an occasional double stack 9, from time to time.

It's just the front tips of the trigger's ears slipping just up above the top edge of the drawbar's V-notch, instead of remaining within the tall notch, and then as the trigger ears drop back down into the notch, the "click" occurs as they pass back down over the top edge.

Oh yeah, when armorers are taught to replace the trigger play spring, they're usually taught to do it using a cheap $10 vise that clamps to the edge of the hosting agency's tables, the pillar file from the armorer kit (which has a safe edge), a ball peen hammer and a 1/16" pin punch. The drawbar is inverted between the vise jaws, to support the shoulder, and the 1/16" pin punch is used to drive the rivet out the top of the drawbar head. (Yes, sometimes the small pin punch might be bent using it in this manner.)

Once you've done it the right way, it's a relatively simple task. The trick is not to lose the new rivet during the process , and not to flatten it overly much (but just enough to hold the spring base flat and secure). It also helps to make sure the spring is pointed the right direction , and the inverted drawbar head is kept flat on the top safe edge of the file while lightly whacking on the rivet to secure it.

Nice pics BMCM.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Dirty Harry said it best. A man has got to know his limitations. And believe me, I know mine.

Rather than attempt to fix the nuisance clicky problem, reality is that I have had to learn to live with it.

It's not that bad after you finally come to accept that: a) You can't fix the problem yourself without screwing it all up... and, b) You can't afford the two-way shipping and transfer fees to send them all down to BMCM for the fix to be done correctly.

So I have become more or less immune to the problem. Such is life at my advanced age and with my financial realities.

Well, WHAT'S THE PART NUMBER?
Inquiring minds want to know.

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I'm with her

Informative as ever Master Chief. Thanks for the tutorial.

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USS Brewton FF1086
SWCA#3597

I was told by the man who controlled that special trigger return spring that the company had never given it a part number, as it was just produced for the FBI guns way back when.

If they've finally cleaned out those springs and sold them off to their vendors, then the vendor would assign whatever part number they wished, I suppose. I don't remember which parts vendor showed the picture of the bright polished "plain" stainless spring a year or so ago, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Would have been helpful if you'd indicated somewhere what gun or guns you were referring to in the opening post.

Had no clue throughout the entire thing till I read responses to your post.
I have an old 4516, but never noticed whatever "annoying trigger click" you refer to, and had no idea what gun you were going through.
Denis

Really?
Perhaps you failed to take note of the first sentence of post #1 where I indicated a 'big10' was the subject of this repair. A knowledgeable person would infer that implies some arm in the 10xx model range.

That being said, the specific model is not even remotely relevant to this repair. Perhaps you are unaware that the trigger play spring applies across the entire lineup of S&W metal frame pistols gen1 through gen3, notwithstanding some special LE orders.

Since you have never noticed 'whatever' annoying trigger click I am addressing with this repair, I can reasonably speculate either there is nothing wrong with your 4516 or, you are not sufficiently familiar with the mechanism to recognize when something is out of sorts.

Cheers
Bill

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Because they don't make a .46

I have one of those silver "special" trigger return springs. IIRC it is stainless steel. I was told it was a prototype.

I will dig it out this weekend and post a pic. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I had no clue whatever what a "big 10" might be, and no idea which model or models that fix might apply to.
I wasn't even sure it was for an older pistol, and no- I am not intimately familiar with the insides of those things.
My 4516 has never, to the best of my recollection, exhibited whatever the click is, and I've never taken a metal Smith apart to that degree of detail.
Denis

Standard copper colored revised springs on the left side in each pic; and bright finish plain "stainless" color finish springs on the right ...




Damn, I'm getting low. I guess I ought to have asked for more of them all those years ago.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

FastBolt beat me to it. BMCM I'd be happy to send mine to you if you want to make up some of those. Let me know. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I don't suppose the mothership would have any of those stashed about somewhere The annoyance on the other end of the phone usually comes through loud and clear when I start rattling off 3rd gen parts numbers. I can only imagine the reaction when asking for some un-numbered part

Cheers
Bill

__________________
Because they don't make a .46

Those springs were only in the possession of the guy whose number I gave you a while ago. He was the keeper of them for the 10mm project involving the FBI guns all those years ago. I don't know if he might even have any left, as he's probably been slowly clearing out his desk and workbench in preparation of retirement within the next year.

Having seen them appear in that one pic posted on an unremembered parts vendor website within the last year or so, I rather suspect whatever remained of them might've been cleaned out and sold off, mixed in with a lot of the regular trigger play springs, but that's just a guess.

FWIW, I never could get an answer of what alloy leaf spring material was used to make them, but they sure seemed stiffer than the regular springs. Seemingly almost of as stiff as the original copper colored "open" spring that wasn't connected across the top, but still made in the newer connected revision. I have a handful of early 3rd gen drawbars that still have the original style springs, but I've never thought to compare them. (I don't have any "new" old style springs left from those days.)

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

To bring you up to speed, when the third gen trigger play spring weakens/breaks, the trigger will develop a noticeable click when the trigger is pulled in single action. Doesn't seem to affect function, but I can speak through experience that it is very annoying. Some will break it off and live with it. I had mine replaced.

If your spring goes south, you know what the "click" is all about.

The CHP had their contract 4006's furnished without the spring, they are also not found on the California State Park (CSP) 4006's.

I bought a CSP 4006 and that was my introduction to the 3rd Gen trigger click... imagine my surprise when after reading about the cause , I pulled the slide and found it without the spring and rivet. I also discovered that S&W (when they still made them available on their website) had a parts listing for a 4006CHP model that did not include those parts.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Thanks for the help, SMS.
I carried my 4516-2 on duty for a couple years, retired it permanently after one qualification shoot where I accidentally caused a jam by inadvertently activating the safety during a drill & in the same session didn't get my pinky out of the way on slamming a reload in.
Caught enough skin to weld that finger to the gun temporarily.
Bled all over it till the shoot was done.

I still have it, but never shot it again.
Had no idea there was a dinky little flimsy-piece in it, or I would probably not have carried it at all.

As for "big 10" on the bench, made no sense at all to me.
Never heard that reference before.
Denis

Dpris the trigger play spring is not a "flimsy" part. At all. The reason it is often bent or "broken" is due to clumsy or over aggresive scrubbing by someone cleaning their gun.

The original trigger play spring is intact in all my duty guns. Including my 4516-3. No clicking at all after 10 years of service and thousands of rounds through it.

In fact, the only clicking due to a trigger play spring I ever experienced was with a pawn shop rescue 4506-1. That gun had not only been neglected, it had been abused. Thorough cleaning and pushing the "ears" forward, GENTLY, with a pencil eraser fixed the issue. Couple of thousand rounds later and it still is fixed.

And even it the spring breaks, your gun still functions. I shot two IDPA matches one month with a S&W 910 that I had inadvertently broken off the trigger play spring. I was new at the semi auto pistol in general and the 3rd gen guns in particular. I noticed while cleaning and testing for function that when my hammer was cocked back, in SA mode, my trigger moved around freely. When one breaks, thats all that happens.

So, while the clicking may be annoying and if bad enough it can be felt in the trigger, it is of no consequence to operating the gun. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Looks flimsy to me.
I think I'll leave mine as it sits now & continue to not fire it so I can pass it down intact as a historical artifact.
Denis

Yes, perhaps that is best, for you.

But I see little danger of you actually firing it when you keep knocking the safety on unintentionally.

Maybe you could contact BMCM and see if he will do the modification to make it decock only for you! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I only activated that safety accidentally once.
I dislike slide-mounted safeties & it's the only pistol I've ever owned that had one.

I wanted a steel .45 & my department would not approve a 1911, so I bought the 4516-2 as a pistol big enough for uniform carry AND off-duty concealed carry.

Had my gunsmith clean up the washboard trigger & I stuck a set of Hogue rubber on it, the gun did OK for me till that final qualifier.

I decided if I'd screw up the safety in training and forget to keep my finger out of the way on a quick reload, I'd better look elsewhere.

I bought a Glock 21, had Robar do his grip reduction on it, and finished up my career with that pistol.
It wasn't steel, but it didn't have a slide-mounted safety & it never bit my finger.


It's nothing I'd want to carry again & it hasn't been fired in over 20 years, so no point in putting additional money into the 4516.
Denis

Numrich Arms still has these springs and rivets for sale and in stock.
4506-1 (45 Series) Schematic | Numrich

Brownell's also has the trigger spring and required rivet in stock as well.

Trigger Play Spring at Brownells

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Free advice is worth the price

Thanks for the Brownells referral.

Thought upon it, decided couldn't hurt to have a couple spare parts for that 4516-2, so called & ordered two springs and two rivets.


No need to "know a guy", no secret code numbers.
Just called & bought two springs & two rivets.
Now- who has NEW mags for the 4516-2?
Denis

You only needed to "know a guy" if you wanted the revised spring made for the FBI back in earlier days. The regular spring will do just fine. (Although the regular spring was also revised from the open-top to the closed-top design, but remained copper color.)

The standard new production 457/457S/4513TSW mag will work just fine, as the new mag lip design and the new black follower was the replacement for previous versions used in some of the earlier 4516 & "-" models. You can even use the black follower with whatever version 4516 mag you may be using currently, as the black follower replaced even the light green/yellow color mag follower, even though the older mag body may have been printed to state only to use with the old follower.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I recall there was something about the 4516-2 requiring its own mags, something different from the earlier pistols.
I knew it'd take 457s.

Does Smith still sell those?
THINK I have yellow followers.
Denis

S&W still orders some 3rd gen magazines from time to time, as they still seem to be shipping some to vendors. SMITH & WESSON MAGAZINE ASSEMBLY, 7-ROUND, MODELS 457,4516,4536,4556 | Brownells

The 4516's and their mags went through some changes and revisions as they were trying to address some feeding and functioning issues back then. (Ditto the recoil spring and rod, but that's another story.)

They marked some of the 4516 magazines with the necessary color of the followers to be used, like orange and yellow. One of our guy's had one of the revisions (can't remember anymore) and his followers were a weird greenish/yellow, but that may have been because of his cleaning methods.

They just started telling us in the armorer classes that all previous plastic followers in the earlier 3rd gen .45's could be replaced with the last revision/black follower, as it superseded all previous plastic follower designs.

I was told that the metal followers in the mags that came in the older 645's had to use the steel followers that came in those mags. I ended up with a literal bag of those old 645 mags, and I seem to recall giving them to one of the members here many years ago. I suggested only using them for range mags, and to use the new production 8rd 3rd gen mags for duty or off-duty roles, as the new production mag bodies had improved feed lips.

The 8rd 4506 mags came with yellow followers for a while. A couple of our guys ended up ordering some 4566 mags online and ended up with older versions, which they started carrying on-duty (as extras) and using for the quals. While I don't recall any feeding issues in the ones I saw used, whenever I saw one I offered to replace it with a new/unissued 8rd round mag (black follower), just to make sure they were carrying the newest and most current mag/follower for a duty role.

I never saw the difference between those yeloow and black .45 followers by the naked eye (ditto with the yellow and then light blue 3rd gen .40 followers), but then I never got out my magnifying glass and took the time, either. I figured they had a reason for making the change, and just tried to stay current.

However, I do recall being told that sometimes when a color change occurred in a plastic part it might not mean a spec or materials change, but only a change of a vendor (so S&W could track parts received from different vendors).

A bit of trivia ...

When S&W initially went from the 14rd to the 15rd 3rd gen 9mm double stack mags, they changed the follower color (black to orange) to indicate the orange one had legs that allowed an extra round to fit in the mag body (and the new mag bodies got another witness hole).

However, during that transition time I happened to notice, strictly by accident, that the orange followers underwent a change in shape and profile, without a change of color. The change was one easily visible (if you were looking), with the middle of the follower going from a rounded "hump" back to the curved "wall" that positioned the top round (like in the black followers). I've still got a couple examples of each. Both worked fine in the duty guns, with the ammo we were using, and we were never told to replace the first one with the other, even though they looked different. Go figure.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks, I'll try Brownells when I can cut some cash loose.
Dunno how many mags I have, probably about 4, if I can find 'em.
Probably not a bad idea to pick up a couple new ones.

I suppose it's possible the gun might be fired again someday.
Denis

It was your brief explanation of this in another post awhile back that allowed me to do it with ease. I got the parts from Midway. It’s extremely basic and took 10 minutes total. This advice and tutorials from pros like you and BMCM is much appreciated, and mostly why I joined this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably replaced 500 of those over the years, like 18DAI said, overzealous cleaning breaks a lot , also pressing the trigger in D/A mode flexes the spring, so if you dryfire it D/A alot, cause premature wear. Best to fire 1 D/A to 5 single action presses anyway. There is absolutely no problem using the gun once its broken, just a little slop in the trigger exactly like a beretta 92 has anyway. The only problem occurs when the little tab breaks off and gets into the triggerworks it can cause an issue.
We actually quit replacing them , unless the officer brought the spring and rivet in, as most smiths were private owned, we would inspect the bar remove the rivet and remaining piece of the spring, function check the gun, have the officer test fire it, mostly to relieve any anxiety on their part. My .02 bob

Guess that’s his way of saying thank you for your time, and such an informative post .

Since you bring it up again-

Nope, it was pretty much my way of saying it would've been nice to mention up front what he was talking about.

Never had much involvement with Third Gen Smiths, beyond my 4516, and that was only for a couple years, after which I permanently retired it for the reasons stated above.

I was never a fan of that safety or those pistols, and had no clue what a "big 10" was, never having heard the term before.

I never got into the pistol much, and it's been so long I can't even recall what's in there.
Did not know about that spring, did not know what model he was referring to, had no idea it applied to ALL of the DA pistols, apparently.

For the benefit of others like me who may not be intimately familiar with the guts on a Third Gen, woulda simply been helpful if the thread title had reflected what he was going to cover ("Trigger Click In Third Gen Pistols"), and/or something to that effect in the opening paragraph.

When you do a tutorial, it helps to state clearly up front where it applies.
I had no clue in his post that the specific model was "not remotely relevant", again it would have been nice to include that starting out.


No sarcasm was needed in his response to my post.
I don't, as it happens, recall if my gun ever developed that click, but I was familiar enough with the pistol to notice if it developed functional problems.
Sounds like, though, even if the spring did break, it would have been a minor functional issue.
Still, I would assume I'd have noticed it.


I did actually learn something from this thread, but quite frankly I learned more about the issue from posters who followed than I did from the original post.

Once people explained what was being discussed, and provided more detail, I decided to pick up a couple springs & rivets while they're available. Learning that the spring is apparently a weak spot in the design was helpful.

I will probably also acquire a couple mags, firing pins, and extractors now that my long-forgotten back-of-the-vault 4516 has been brought to mind.

For starting the discussion, I do thank BMCM.
For more fully explaining what he did not, I thank everybody else.
For not being intimately familiar with Third Gen Smiths, I do not apologize, and for not previously knowing what a "big 10" was, ditto.

On tutorials it's beneficial to not assume everybody looking in knows the jargon involved with a special-interest field, and to allow for those who don't in the presentation.

Sometimes, as here, people happening to see a thread like this may not be as knowledgeable or as dedicated to the intricacies of the subject at hand as a core group is, but something about the thread may (also as here) end up being useful once other posters sort out what's going on.

Simpler up front if the subject matter is more clearly defined at the start.
Denis

Mail delivery.
Damn, them's TINY rivets!!!!!!
Denis

Also email back from S&W saying they no longer sell those mags, but they would be very happy to sell me some muffs at 20% off.
Denis

Yep, those itty bitty rivets are itty bitty. I used to order twice as many rivets as springs, because they could become damaged or suddenly lost in the blink of any eye.

You might check out some other parts vendors to see if you can find some 7rd .45 3rd gen mags.

I usually try to keep some extra black .45 followers and mag springs in my parts drawers. The top raised bump and the slide stop lever extension window cut can get worn over time if you use the mags at the range a lot.

Midway often seems to get a supply of the factory mag springs and followers.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks.
It wouldn't hurt to have some spare parts for the next owner to keep the thing running.

I've put the pistol in rotation for parts searches.
Need to start bugging my gunsmith again to dig out the Colt V-Spring parts he claims to have buried somewhere.

I SHOULD be more aggressive in my parts program, before EVERYTHING dries up.

The plastic Smiths I bought to carry I don't consider worth passing on, but steel classics from Smith, Colt, and Ruger I want successive generations to be able to still fire, if they want to.
Denis

Yeah, sometimes it seems as though collecting parts over the years might only result in someone else having to eventually figure out what to do with them.

Example ...

A good friend of mine passed recently. Longtime head armorer for my former agency, and the man who helped me become interested in learning to become an armorer for assorted long and short guns. He built many a fine PPC revolver, 1911, Browning HP, etc. One of the remaining guys who could properly repair and fine tune a Python in our general area (he used a Python in his older PPC days, but preferred to build "new" PPC guns on K-frames).

Just before he passed (while in the hospital, in hospice care), he told me to make sure to go and take whatever parts and tools I wanted from his shop. I ended up offering to share some of the stuff with a couple other longtime friend and another former armorer (we attended our first armorer class together), but in the end I took home a substantial number of plastic bags of S&W revolver and pistol parts. (I gave the Colt Python parts to one of the other guys, as I don't own one and was never trained to service/repair them.)

I seriously doubt I'll ever have reason to use even a small number of the older revolvers parts, but now that they're part of my assorted bins, boxes and drawers of spare parts ... and having seen my longtime friend in that hospital bed ... and helping his widow clean out his tools and parts, and organize the guns he wanted sold through an estate agent ... it's made me consider that I don't want to put my wife or children through the same thing.

It's made me wonder at what point I'm going to decide it's time to release the collection of parts I've accumulated, back into the wild.

Then again, this is how a goodly number of parts for older firearms end up in the display cases and stock of estate agents who sell gun parts and older guns, isn't it?

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

The entire issue of passing guns & related items down to somebody else is not a simple one.

My "kids" won't have a clue, they're not "steel" people.
Plastic for them, when they buy.

The ideal plan, which may or may not actually work, is a mix of educating the guys about what I have, why they're important, and what parts I have for them, combined with finding others who may appreciate a few of them.

And/or outright selling to get them into the right hands.

The hope is that there WILL be "the right hands" out there somewhere who'll understand the guns.
I can maintain that hope based on the continuing collector interest for vintage guns now, although I do have some concerns over the dwindling number of shooters in general as society weakens.
Denis

Yeah, I've considered starting to keep touch with some guys who might have an interest, and who are at least 20 years younger than me.

My friend was only 11 years my senior, but he was suffering in the end stages of COPD. Another longtime and retired LE friend of his (and mine) is in his 80's and still going pretty strong. He's also a retired firearms trainer and armorer, but was best known as an outstandingly successful homicide & major crimes detective for many years. Those guys used to have a regular "range date" on Fridays as one, and then the other, retired. The couple of guys who eventually took over as the head instructor/rangemaster always made it a point to somehow schedule some Friday afternoon time for them to enjoy the LE range to themselves.

One thing I was able to share with another longtime friend was a privately made CD created many years ago by the former instructor/armorer who recently passed. In it he detailed methods for working on and improving the venerable 1911. He even made some nifty special tools for doing some of the work (he was formerly a machinist before he entered LE). He used to tell me that a lot of the tips and tricks he'd learned over the years he'd learned from Bob Chow, himself.

I was pleased to see that some of the guns handled by the estate FFL were finding good homes with people who apparently appreciated the disappearing 3rd gen guns. Of course, a few of us who were longtime friends, peers and "students" of his were notified of his desire that we select some of his prized guns, and the transfers were handled by the estate agent FFL.

While there were many guns from which to choose, the one that meant the most to me was a pristine M65 3" that he'd made when he went back to the S&W factory for his revolver armorer class. He said when asked to select a revolver to use as his student gun, he'd picked the 3" 65. They gave him a frame w/barrel and a yoke (ground and polished to that frame), and he selected all of the other parts from which to build a completed revolver, which he bought at the end of the class. (The factory box is marked as a"Special", BTW.)

We'd often discussed our shared appreciation of revolvers (even if I enjoyed occasionally bugging him by owning Ruger Security/Service/Speed-Sixes ), and the older revolver days of LE. One of my regrets is not having taken advantage of an offer from him several years ago, when he offered to make me an old-style PPC gun if I bought some used & abused K-frame for him to use as the basis. He had a hobby of turning out some beautiful PPC guns, and was our go-to guy for fine-tuning older Colt and S&W wheelies (before he finally told me to take care of such mundane S&W revolver armorer chores once I'd gotten a revolver certificate, to put to use all those hours standing at his elbow, at his bench, learning my way around the inside of a S&W revolver. He always thought more of my abilities than I did, though.

So, yes, getting back almost on-topic, I hope I'm able to arrange to pass on some parts, books, notes and such to some other folks once I reach the point where I'm eventually forced to grudgingly accept that my shooting and armorer days really are behind me. My hope, of course, if that that time won't occur for another 20 years, as I'd like to be able to remain competent and handy at it throughout at least my middle 80's.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

My condolences on the loss of your friend FastBolt.

I hope you have at least another 30 years of shooting and enjoying guns FastBolt!

I learn something new everytime you post. Yes, I think you writing a book is an EXCELLENT idea! Best regards, 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change