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  #1  
Old 11-28-2019, 04:51 PM
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I am kind'a surprised there's not much discussion on the 1911 family. I purchased one the last ones to come into California (according the BassPro clerk). If i lived in a America i would own at least three more models. I have a Stainless (post billboard) and really love it, fits my hand perfectly, accurate, and no issues what so ever....
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Old 11-28-2019, 04:57 PM
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I believe there isnít much discussion on these because everyone and their brother makes a 1911, but only S&W made 1-2-3rd Gen, 41ís and 422/622 pistols, so that is what gets discussed in this area of the site.

I have a single S&W 1911, it is the Pro Series 9mm and Iím totally in love with the way this pistol looks. As a shooter, itís fine, I think itís average and (hate to say it) but wildly over priced, but I snagged mine used and I paid a reasonable price for mine.
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:36 PM
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I can't say I agree with Sevens on the "over priced" or on the "average" comment. I have nothing but praise for mine and comparing with the Colt Gold Cup Trophy pictured beside it, I think it was the better buy when you compare features. But, like it's said, there's a seat for every bum.
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:58 PM
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Im actually in the market for a 1911 and S&W was one of the 1911s I was looking at. It was their E Series and they were all $1200-1400.

Now I dont mind paying a bit more for a gun, especially one I like, but to me for what it is I did think they were a bit over priced.

That said I did enjoy how they felt in my hand, they has a positive safety it wasnt too easy to push off, good sights but I found a few other 1911s from other makers that were 750-900 and thats where Id like to stay.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:55 PM
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I can't say I agree with Sevens on the "over priced" or on the "average" comment.
Okay but to be clear, Iím talking about the MSRP and the typical street price of my S&W1911 Pro Series 9mm, and not any of the other S&W 1911 pistols. My gun, with the adjustable Bomar rear sight, canít really be found anywhere under $1,100 new.

I think itís gorgeous and I enjoy having it, but I donít believe this is in the echelon of other $1,100-$1,200 1911 pistols.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:15 PM
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It seems that most of the 1911 guys on this forum tend to be Colt-oriented. Thatís OK, and that fact may account for the lack of 1911 discussion you notice. My own perspective is that these days Colt is hardly the only game in town, and not even near the top, IMO. Some of the new Colts are nice guns, but there are lots of other nice 1911s out there for fair prices (comparatively) and, based on my past experiences with Colt ďcustomer service,Ē I donít see the reason to be beholding to them.

Anyway, thatís enough theorizing. I really like the S&W 1911s Iíve seen and had a chance to fire. I have one of the early Performance Center 1911s that I think is easily one of the nicest .45s for the money, from any manufacturer. But thatís really not topical when youíre talking with younger customers who are not .45 guys in the first place, and who tend to be far more interested in magazine capacity and audible reset. It seems there are more of them than us, and theyíve got money to spend on toys.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:56 PM
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My 1911's are Colt, S&W, Kimber and Sig. Commanders and Gold Cup, or similar, especially alloy frame 4" guns. S&W and Sig edge Colt a little on build quality, in what I have seen. All beat Kimber in appearance. I have had no issues with any for function, and I shoot these a fair amount. Carried a few of the alloy 4" guns daily, for years. Liked the Kimbers for that best, but the 4.25" S&W alloy frame stainless slide gun is the one of the most accurate pistols I have shot. Very sweet piece.

Just bought three Colt 1911's, two in 38 Super, one in 45. Late models, all very nice. For the combination of fine manufacturing and high quality product, any of these brands are good choices. Frankly, the cheaper guns are just that. I have owed them, just don't any more. They leave me unsatisfied.
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Old 11-28-2019, 09:05 PM
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The 1911 doesn't seem to do anything better than my 457, but that's just an old 3rd Gen fan talking.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:09 AM
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I have Colt, Springfield Armory, and S&W 1911's. The S&W is fine as it comes from the factory (E Class), if you are an occasional Shooter. If you are more interested in Bullseye or any other precision game, trigger adjustment is needed. I found the hammer and sear are both coated with that black matte finish so in use today, but does not provide a good smooth surface for a crisp trigger. I stoned the needed surfaces, and put in a 19 lb spring. It now has an acceptable trigger.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:34 AM
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So I have a 1911 SKU 108284. I like it just fine-put a GI trigger in it for my short fingers but that's it. What makes the E series and PC series so much better? DO I need to dump mine and get one of the newer ones???
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:58 AM
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Colt hasn't made a good 1911 since 1968 . Oh the small parts are still good quality & like everyone else they use MIM parts . Barrel , slide to frame aren't fitted well . You're paying for the name & the prancing jackass stamped on it .
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Old 11-29-2019, 12:44 PM
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So I have a 1911 SKU 108284. I like it just fine-put a GI trigger in it for my short fingers but that's it. What makes the E series and PC series so much better? DO I need to dump mine and get one of the newer ones???
Absolutely not. Why would you, if youíre happy with what you have?

Differences... The PC guns you have to evaluate on feature-for-feature basis. The principal difference with the E-series, at least as I understand it, is those guns do not use a trigger- or grip safety-operated firing pin safety.

My PC 1911 has the firing pin safety but the trigger is so good I canít tell it while shooting.
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Old 11-29-2019, 05:29 PM
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If i ever get out of here (CA.), that ported P.C. 1911 with the blue grips will be my first purchase....Love the look and feel (handled one when on vacation)...of it...
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Old 11-29-2019, 05:54 PM
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dan Wesson all the way for the money
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Old 11-29-2019, 06:10 PM
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Most of my handguns are S&W's, but my 1911's are a Springfield Mil Spec, Remington R-1 and Rock Island. They deliver what I am looking for considerably less.
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Old 11-29-2019, 07:17 PM
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It seems like everyone I know that has guns has a 1911. I don't have one but I am wanting an early JRD serial no. or what I have seen referred to as a "Billboard" 1911 to add to my assortment of handguns. Anybody have one that can offer an opinion?
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:13 PM
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dan Wesson all the way for the money
I picked up the Dan Wesson that was sold on this forum yesterday morning. I know the seller so I actually have it in hand already. He lives 10 minutes away! What a quality piece of machinery. For the price point they phenomenal. They are very close in quality to some Les Baers and my WC isn't that much better built. I want to buy (own) a S&W 1911 but have not found one of excellent quality that is under $1500. The 945s have been selling on the Big Auction board for close to $2K. Way over priced IMO.
I bought the Dan Wesson Valor full size for $1050. It's a 1 year old pistol with very few rounds through it. Granted I have not shot it yet but it's reviews are excellent and it is super clean.
S&W makes a great looking 1911 for sure..minus the big billboards. I am sure they are much better than my Springer 1911 GI.
I just haven't been in the right place at the right time.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:33 PM
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The 945s have been selling on the Big Auction board for close to $2K. Way over priced IMO.
Certainly, IMO is clearly stating your opinion, but Iíll still try to sway it using a rational argument. 945ís are under priced in the market, itís not a model made by 50 different manufacturers, itís a single model only produced in one single place in manís history and only for a short span of time... less than a decade and now out of production for a decade, and will never come back.

Collectible handguns have plenty of different components that help make up their trending market price, but one of the larger components is their original MSRP. It would be silly to discuss the market of the 945 without comparing it directly to the market of other S&W Performance Center pistols, and these pistols carried a MSRP of $2,157 in the 2008 S&W catalog.

If we see where the 952 trades, I cannot agree that 945ís are over priced where they trade at right now.

Also FWIW, though a certain slew of them in the past month have sold for north of $1,500 the market for the 945 over the past many yearís span has been significantly lower than the 952.

These are my opinions, of course.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:35 PM
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I cannot say anything negative about S&W 1911s. I own four and every one works well and is plenty accurate. Conversely, I used to own three Kimber 1911s and had problems with two of them and a Kimber 22LR Target conversion kit.

Even when installed on a Kimber Gold Match frame, that kit malfunctioned more often than not. After two trips back with repair invoices stating "replaced small parts," I sent it back on my Kimber GM frame and they replaced the frame's mainspring housing. I don't see how that part could affect slide operation but they're the experts...

Finally, they exchanged the kit for me but out of 100 CCI MiniMags fired, 74 of them either failed to chamber, failed to fire, failed to extract or failed to eject! Their reply was that I was not holding the gun properly.

I replaced that conversion kit with an Advantage Arms Target conversion kit and have yet to have a malfunction on any frame. I've since sold all my Kimbers and replaced them with S&Ws. All three .45s and the .38 Super are great guns!

Meanwhile, two fellow club members showed up one day with Kimber kits on their 1911s and went through the same frustrations as I had. I loaned one of them my Advantage Arms kit and he shot several boxes of ammo without a hitch.

Regardless of who makes it, the best product in the world is worthless without quality service behind it. And a poor product backed by equally poor service is the next thing you should sell.

Ed
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:36 AM
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I have 1 S&W 1911 E type. It’s a stainless base model. It has been 100% in function and more accurate than most factory 1911’s I’ve shot. I’m an old bullseye shooter, and the accuracy surprised me. When it came time to buy a 9mm 1911, I ended up going with a STI Trojan. At the time, they could be had for about $1000-1050. The accuracy of these guns is hard to beat. I understand that STI has discontinued all their single stack offerings. That’s a shame.
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:42 AM
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I am not interested in 1911s with external extractors.
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:57 AM
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I am not interested in 1911s with external extractors.
Interesting. S&W has been successfully using external extractors since the 1950ís. John M Browning used an external extractor in his HP design. Yeah, Kimber had some problems with theirs and it took a couple of design mods before they got it right. I have one Kimber with an external extractor that I have run thousands of trouble free rounds thru. Zero malfunctions. Iíve had more than a few Colts and other brands that required tuning and tweaking of the extractor to get them to function. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, as am I. However, I would suggest that you do yourself a disservice by ignoring the 1911 variants that utilize the more modern design.BTW, what new designs have you seen that use an internal extractor?
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Old 11-30-2019, 07:57 AM
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"I am not interested in 1911s with external extractors"

I've heard this sentiment many times and I just don't get it. Is it an appearance thing? Granted I only own the one S&W 1911PC (pictured above) but it's external extractor works perfectly. Please explain?
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Certainly, IMO is clearly stating your opinion, but I’ll still try to sway it using a rational argument. 945’s are under priced in the market, it’s not a model made by 50 different manufacturers, it’s a single model only produced in one single place in man’s history and only for a short span of time... less than a decade and now out of production for a decade, and will never come back.

Collectible handguns have plenty of different components that help make up their trending market price, but one of the larger components is their original MSRP. It would be silly to discuss the market of the 945 without comparing it directly to the market of other S&W Performance Center pistols, and these pistols carried a MSRP of $2,157 in the 2008 S&W catalog.

If we see where the 952 trades, I cannot agree that 945’s are over priced where they trade at right now.

Also FWIW, though a certain slew of them in the past month have sold for north of $1,500 the market for the 945 over the past many year’s span has been significantly lower than the 952.

These are my opinions, of course.
I have to concede that in the S&W collection community of which I am a part, that the 945s are cerainly collectable. So maybe over priced is only when looking at them from a functional tool / shooter persepctive. I did own one for a couple of years and foolishly sold it. It was the 3.25" No billboard. It was a very nice pistol, With MSRPs in the $2K range in 2008 it puts them on a level just below entry level Ed brown, Wilson Combat, and Les Baer. These companies custom build every gun and produce less than 3000 handguns per year. (some say less than 2000)

My point:
You can get a used WC for around $2k (low end) right now on the Big Board. It is a better built pistol than any S&W 1911. Many 945s are pushing the same price point. The difference is a very high quality custom used gun that sold new for $3K and is now $2K depreciated. Versus a custom high quality collectable used gun that sold new for $2k and it's collectability is keeping it's price up there.
WC, LB and Ed Brown are profitible in the custom market. S&W must not have been or they would still be in it producing custom 945 1911s or some variation of that. BTW I was able to purchase a WC QCB for $1800 4 years ago LNIB and only 2 years old. So I have owned them and the 945.
I would still like to own another 945. I won't pay $2k for one though.
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Old 11-30-2019, 09:57 AM
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I have a 3" PC Scandium Pro Series 1911 in 9mm. I am not exaggerating when i say i have had dozens of 1911's over the years. Many Smiths, Wilsons, a couple Les Baers, 1 Nighthawk, Colts, and many others. The calibers have covered the spectrum- .45, 9mm, 10mm, .
The 3" Pro is hands down the best of the bunch. I have about 3,000 rounds thru it. Never a malfunction of any kind. Not a slide lock failure, not a failure to feed, extract or eject, not a failure to go into battery, nothing, zero malfunctions of any kind.
Can't say that about any other 1911 except the Smiths i have owned and a couple Wislons. They were all .45.
This little gun is the only 1911 i have or want and i shoot a hundred rounds or so every time i go to the range.
Great pistol.
My only concern is getting a replacement recoil spring when its time. Can't find them anywhere but have not called Smith yet. I figure i will just keep shooting until it doesn't work. Not sure of the service life but i am going to find out.
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Old 11-30-2019, 12:51 PM
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A Wilson Combat for $2K...Not on my planet, every one that show's up where i live is north of $3K...LOL
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mattallamerican View Post
dan Wesson all the way for the money
While I have a S&W e series I traded into, I agree wholeheartedly- my 2 DWs are superb- a Specialist Commander in 45 and a TCP in 9mm.
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Old 11-30-2019, 02:52 PM
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Completed auction.. there are plenty more like this.

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A Wilson Combat for $2K...Not on my planet, every one that show's up where i live is north of $3K...LOL
Wilson Combat CQB 45ACP *Penny Auction* - Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com : 842806864
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:05 PM
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Unfortunately for those of us in the Socialist Republic of California it doesn't end with the auction...First is it on the roster...second you pay the FFL'S anywhere from $75.00 to $125.00 to accept the shipment...third you pay state sales tax on the invoice 7.5/9%...Then of course the DROS and your 10 day waiting period...so $2K pistol easily cost you an additional $200.00/$250.00...
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:16 PM
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Well that’s not anything specific to S&W 1911 pistols. You could make that your signature line for posting anything to any gun discussion forum. Most of us know that California laws are egregious and horrendous.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:29 PM
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Here is my Pro Series 9mm. This model features the scarcely seen ďwavyĒ style serrations that S&W didnít use often back at this time. They have made MANY of this model (all with the wavy serrations) but very few other models featured this style. The PC 1911-2 Doug Koenig pistol in .38 Super wore them, as did a very rare variant of the PC 945 model.

This pistol is extremely attractive in my opinion, my photo doesnít do it justice.



Itís one of very few S&W guns that I own that was produced in Houlton, Maine.
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:35 PM
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I own one of the old JRD stainless base model SW1911 from their early introduction. Has the FPS. Shoots great, reliable, all that. I keep thinking about swapping parts to remove the FPS, but never get to it.

I also own a SW1911SC scandium-frames ltwt commander. Also .45ACP. Again, great shooter.

Last is a Springfield Armory OACP in 9mm. Not as nice as the SW1911s, but I must say that the 9mm and OACP 1911 go together like peas & carrots.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:45 PM
dlh711 dlh711 is offline
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I know I'm a little late to the party, but I have seen a number of used but like new S&W 1911s on GB that list for $1500-1600 new, selling in the $600-800 range. IMHO, they are a steal at those prices. I have two and both are 100% reliable and very accurate. With a trigger job, some internal parts polishing and a lifetime warranty, I think they compare favorably with anything under $2k.









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Originally Posted by fmflorida View Post
Im actually in the market for a 1911 and S&W was one of the 1911s I was looking at. It was their E Series and they were all $1200-1400.

Now I dont mind paying a bit more for a gun, especially one I like, but to me for what it is I did think they were a bit over priced.

That said I did enjoy how they felt in my hand, they has a positive safety it wasnt too easy to push off, good sights but I found a few other 1911s from other makers that were 750-900 and thats where Id like to stay.

Last edited by dlh711; 12-04-2019 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:04 PM
fmflorida fmflorida is offline
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Originally Posted by dlh711 View Post
I know I'm a little late to the party, but I have seen a number of used but like new S&W 1911s on GB that list for $1500-1600 new, selling in the $600-800 range. IMHO, they are a steal at those prices. I have two and both are 100% reliable and very accurate. With a trigger job, some internal parts polishing and a lifetime warranty, I think they compare favorably anything under $2k.
I certainly agree you can find them on the secondary market for less though I was speaking "new".

Of course as you say they can be found on GB or any number of websites but rarely are they found "used" at local shops, at least in my area, which is a credit to their likability.
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Old 12-07-2019, 10:39 AM
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Interesting. S&W has been successfully using external extractors since the 1950ís. John M Browning used an external extractor in his HP design. Yeah, Kimber had some problems with theirs and it took a couple of design mods before they got it right. I have one Kimber with an external extractor that I have run thousands of trouble free rounds thru. Zero malfunctions. Iíve had more than a few Colts and other brands that required tuning and tweaking of the extractor to get them to function. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, as am I. However, I would suggest that you do yourself a disservice by ignoring the 1911 variants that utilize the more modern design.BTW, what new designs have you seen that use an internal extractor?
Nothing wrong with external extractors, I just donít like external extractors or mim on 1911s, locks or mim on Smith revolvers or anchovies on pizza. Itís merely a matter of personal preference not a subject intended for debate. I like external extractors on my Sigs, Glocks, Berettas, etc.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:08 PM
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I agree that there is nothing wrong with external extractors. John Browning must have liked them also since most of his designs utilized external extractors.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:51 PM
DMcBB DMcBB is offline
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While I have a S&W e series I traded into, I agree wholeheartedly- my 2 DWs are superb- a Specialist Commander in 45 and a TCP in 9mm.
I agree here. My TCP is like a laser gun. The bullets go exactly where I point that brass bead.
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:54 PM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
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That makes me think - why an internal extractor on the 1911, when other designs (1903, vest pocket, 1910, et al) were external? I'd be curious to know why the design choice, if anyone knows.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Handgunner50 View Post
It seems like everyone I know that has guns has a 1911. I don't have one but I am wanting an early JRD serial no. or what I have seen referred to as a "Billboard" 1911 to add to my assortment of handguns. Anybody have one that can offer an opinion?
I bought one a long time ago. Itís a ĎJRDí and I just found out a few minutes ago itís a first year run. Itís still bone stock and uses original springs and mags. Never had a problem with it or a reason to let it go. Great guns IMO.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:25 PM
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"I am not interested in 1911s with external extractors"

I've heard this sentiment many times and I just don't get it. Is it an appearance thing? Granted I only own the one S&W 1911PC (pictured above) but it's external extractor works perfectly. Please explain?
I merely said I am not interested in 1911s with external extractors, I didnít say they donít work. Same thing goes for the IL. I like what I like and it doesnít need to make sense to anyone but me. I like my Glocks, Sigs, Berettas just fine with there external extractors. I just donít want one on my 1911.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:18 PM
S&Wman S&Wman is offline
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I wanted a 9mm version of my Colt Gold Cup National Match and I preferred it in stainless for low maintenance. The S&W Pro Series came close. It doesnít have the top rib or the wide trigger but otherwise I couldnít be happier. I thought that I would have to have a custom 1911 built. Iíd be looking at 2 to 3 times the cost of this. So when these came out I jumped right on it. The only thing that I did to it was change the magazine catch lock from the factory slotted to a hex head (I felt it deserved it). I love the hand filling grips too. Actually I love everything about it
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
That makes me think - why an internal extractor on the 1911, when other designs (1903, vest pocket, 1910, et al) were external? I'd be curious to know why the design choice, if anyone knows.
Had something to do with meeting specification on a military contract, I guess. Or the intent of the spec. I dont know the 1911 pistol spec, but Iíd guess maybe the internal extractor addressed a part of the requirements that had to do with entry of dirt into the pistol. Or something else specifically written in the design requirements

Browning had a purpose in everything he did. He didnít just decide to incorporate an internal extractor because it was Thursday. He designed the 1911 to meet a specific set of requirements. Just like he did with his 1935 design (which was modified and refined by Saive into the HP we know today). Browning didnít design for the sake of design. If the spec said it, he found a way to do it.

Last edited by Justin T; 04-10-2020 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 04-10-2020, 08:22 AM
cbunix23 cbunix23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Octagun View Post
I bought one a long time ago. Itís a ĎJRDí and I just found out a few minutes ago itís a first year run. Itís still bone stock and uses original springs and mags. Never had a problem with it or a reason to let it go. Great guns IMO.
I've had a handful of 1911's. My 'JRD' is my favorite to date. I did change out the springs because I bought it used. I might buy another one as a backup if I can find one at my price point.

The Colt '70 I had was one of the first ever put together by Bill Wilson before he even started Wilson Combat. It had S&W revolver sights on the topside. I ended up selling it to a Wilson collector.
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Old 04-10-2020, 12:13 PM
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I might have to look at one of these. Smith & Wesson SW1911TA.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:03 PM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
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I for one actually prefer the external extractor. I shoot mostly off a bench with a catch net beside the gun to capture my brass. The 1911s I used to own that had internal extractors needed an occasional tweak of the extractor to control where they threw their empties but the external ones haven't needed anything adjusted and continually toss their empties right into the net.

Ed
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Octagun View Post
I bought one a long time ago. Itís a ĎJRDí and I just found out a few minutes ago itís a first year run. Itís still bone stock and uses original springs and mags. Never had a problem with it or a reason to let it go. Great guns IMO.
I have a JRH that I bought new for my son when he was born in 2006. Its the model 108284 with SS finish, adjustable rear sight, and ambidextrous controls (in case he turned out to be a leftie!) I was surprised it came with 2 blued ACT magazines since images I had seen showed Wilson magazines. I asked S&W about that and was told they switched to ACT due to "issues" with the Wilson ones. From what I have read Wilson makes great mags so I'm thinking the only "issue" would be cost. They probably just got a better contract with ACT.

The ACT mags do have the S&W logo stamped on the left side and I was wondering if your Wilson mags do also? Are they SS or Blued?

Sorry to say I wont be able to give a range report for another 7 years! I want to give it to him at 21 and he'll be the first to fire it outside of the factory

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Old 05-01-2020, 07:16 PM
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That is a really great way to add sentimental value to a great 1911! Iím sure he will keep that one for life. To answer your question mine came with 2 stainless 8 rd Wilson Combat magazines. They have no S&W markings on them but do have Wilson Combat markings on the plastic extension under the floor plate.
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Old 05-01-2020, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgt911 View Post
I might have to look at one of these. Smith & Wesson SW1911TA.

I have one of these. Itís a great gun. Canít recommend it highly enough.


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Old 05-02-2020, 02:24 PM
roo_ster roo_ster is offline
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Originally Posted by toddimusnimski View Post
I have a JRH that I bought new for my son when he was born in 2006. Its the model 108284 with SS finish, adjustable rear sight, and ambidextrous controls (in case he turned out to be a leftie!) I was surprised it came with 2 blued ACT magazines since images I had seen showed Wilson magazines. I asked S&W about that and was told they switched to ACT due to "issues" with the Wilson ones. From what I have read Wilson makes great mags so I'm thinking the only "issue" would be cost. They probably just got a better contract with ACT.
My SW1911 came with 2x Wilson 47D mags when I bought it. I now own two SW1911, one full size stainless and one SC. Wilson, Wilson, Wilson, mags are what runs best in both of them. 47D and their new 1911 mag, as well as their 10-rounders.
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Old 05-03-2020, 11:01 PM
Oldsalt66 Oldsalt66 is offline
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I might have to look at one of these. Smith & Wesson SW1911TA.
I enjoy mine a lot.
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