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  #1  
Old 12-25-2019, 05:16 PM
mike56 mike56 is offline
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Default New 41 or look used?

Had a 41 a zillion years ago, needed to sell it.

Would kinda like another. New are pricey, but the used ones are as well.

Any issues with current production? The performance version has a built in rail. Are new barrels available with the rail? My old one was drilled/tapped for a b square rail.

Last edited by mike56; 12-25-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 12-25-2019, 06:27 PM
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I intend zero offense to anyone.

I have no interest in buying anything that S&W currently makes, if there is a much earlier version of that same model.

I would not buy a 41 made today unless it was crazy cheap. Even then, I wouldn’t buy it to use or keep it.

Especially when talking about a 41, the used market is loaded with them. 41’s are the opposite of scarce.
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Old 12-25-2019, 07:16 PM
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Then again, there have been a number of posts on this Forum by members claiming to have had good service and accuracy from currently assembled model 41s.

This post/video may put the "old vs. new" argument in perspective: An old S&W armorer talks new vs. old

Merry Christmas, Brother Sevens!

I look forward to our discussions in the coming year!

John
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Old 12-25-2019, 07:21 PM
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Quality-wise, unless you're interested in a particular "look" to the finish, I would say there's virtually no difference.

In terms of pricing, different story.

New 41s are absurdly expensive--around $1400 or so. It's a good gun, but it's not that good. Used examples in good shape regularly appear around $800. Even if you go through the trouble of replacing every spring in the gun, you still come out way ahead.
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Old 12-25-2019, 07:42 PM
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Brother John, pretty sure there hasn’t been a discussion between us that I didn’t enjoy. Even still, I’ll go on the record officially that I have very little confidence in what S&W does these days. That opinion is not model-based.

There are plenty of potential problems with an older S&W Model Anything. But the current S&W continues to spit out example after example that reinforces the opinion I hold.

There are just too darn many fantastic used guns from an array of manufacturers for me to even consider my precious time and energy on a newly made S&W.
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Old 12-25-2019, 08:27 PM
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I have a new one and an older one, and can't tell much of difference in the two. I always buy new when I can, only reason I have an older one is I saw it at a gun show for $600 and it came with 5 mags. Did not need another but could not pass up the deal. Both shoot better than I do.
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Old 12-25-2019, 08:51 PM
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Found a few new ones on line, both 5.5 and 7, for around 1100.
Good condition used ones on gunbroker are in the 900-1000 range, which started my question of whether to buy a new one. Just started looking, but haven't seen a used one under 800 local.
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Old 12-25-2019, 09:10 PM
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If you are a good judge of condition, you should be fine going with a used gun if youíre so inclined. I would not be afraid to buy either one. I believe odds favor the new production guns being a bit more accurate, but Iíd think it would be splitting hairs.

The new guns are nice - but pricey. On the used market, Iíd say look carefully and if youíre satisfied with the gun AND price, donít worry.

If you intend to mount an optic, Iíd definitely buy the new model that has an integral rail, or drilled & tapped, if you donít care for the rail-model. Iím a bit interested in that particular gun. Cheapest Iíve seen a used rail-model in my neck of the woods was $1250, in like-new condition. Iím sure the price could have been negotiated a bit.

Either way, new or used, I think picking the right barrel is far more important. Everyone has their opinion on which length is best.
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Old 12-25-2019, 11:09 PM
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One went on GB the other day around $700 that I was watching. Funny how that pricing thing works when you get older. I wanted an accurate 22 pistol back in the 80's when I was in high school. Was down between a 41 and a Victor. Got the Victor for $270. Finally picked up a 41 a few years back for around $600. Now the funny thing is you hear how accurate the 41 and Victor are but I put both on a Ransom Rest along with a Ruger Mk2 Govt Target that I paid $220 for and the Ruger out shot both and did it with Rem Golden bullets.
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Old 12-26-2019, 01:01 AM
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I have a newer production model, shipped June 20, 2016, and couldn't be happier than I am. It's a great gun!

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Old 12-26-2019, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike56 View Post
Found a few new ones on line, both 5.5 and 7, for around 1100.
Good condition used ones on gunbroker are in the 900-1000 range, which started my question of whether to buy a new one. Just started looking, but haven't seen a used one under 800 local.
Forget Gunbroker. $1100 new these days is not bad, especially if you can dodge sales tax.

If you're willing to wait, the classifieds here will turn up a good used example in the $800 range. I've seen them down to $700-$750, but those guns had some definite honest shooting wear.

Are you buying it just to have one again, to shoot it for fun, or do you want to do something like Bullseye?
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Old 12-26-2019, 01:43 PM
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Gunbroker worked for me and can and will work for anyone who is willing to be diligent in watching it. That's where I snagged my Model 41, a three-alpha prefix made in 1991. $730 buy-it-now and with shipping and my FFL fee, I'm in to it for $785 out the door and in to my safe.

The OEM stocks are gorgeous, truly gorgeous to look at, but I don't care for the thumb rest. I swapped them out for a set of Herrett's that don't look nearly as attractive but are far more comfortable in my hands. The log says that I've sent 1,164 rounds through it, some CCI-SV but mostly it's been the really low-buck Aguila SV.
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Old 12-26-2019, 02:08 PM
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So, exactly what is wrong with this one??
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Old 12-26-2019, 03:17 PM
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Can you be more specific? Are you asking me why I'd keep looking?

Not a lot of information to go on.
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Old 12-26-2019, 06:29 PM
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For 1/3 of the price of a 41 I chose to get a Ruger Mark lV 22/45. Couldn't be happier. It's a well made tack driver and take down is simple.

Last edited by Backlighting; 12-26-2019 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 12-26-2019, 07:01 PM
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I like new Iron. Own 2 current 41's and more 70's older pistols. I do not use the factory S&W for repair I have found 2 gunsmiths that excell in 41 repair. Not free but what is? Never heard of a 41 that could not be fixed. When they are shooting I really like them so they please me most of the time. New or old makes no difference to me. Love the 41's.
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Old 12-26-2019, 07:16 PM
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So, exactly what is wrong with this one??


Not a thing!
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Old 12-26-2019, 09:16 PM
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I had a newer 41 a few years ago and the barrel was tapped. It was a 5 1/2Ē and I did scope it. I picked up a 7Ē barrel to go with it and was very happy with all. But I sold it off.

After getting a very special custom 41 four years ago I went on the lookout for a 1969 that was in great shape and un-molested. My thought was to have both 1969 41ís side by side to show what all had been done to a factory original. I did find one on Gunbroker.

It took a while but I got a second barrel and a few more original magazines. Iím into it for under $900.00 total. I do not plan on scoping so the non-tapped barrels are fine.

I really like the older ones and havenít had any issues. I donít think I could have pieced all of this together for that price if I WAS trying to buy new.

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Old 12-27-2019, 01:12 AM
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A little thread drift, but all of these are great "old" options for a target 22. The Ruger Mark II Government Target and S&W 2206TGT are about 25 years old and the S&W Model 41 is the grandpa at 62 years old.

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Old 12-27-2019, 03:08 AM
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So, exactly what is wrong with this one??
IT'S A NEW SMITH AND WESSON BURN IT REEEEEEEEEEEEE

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Old 12-27-2019, 09:05 AM
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Skjos: Of the 3 pictured, which is most accurate in your hands, and which is your favorite to shoot? I have that same inventory, just curious. My 41 is super accurate but the Ruger just feels better.
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:13 AM
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Can you be more specific? Are you asking me why I'd keep looking?

Not a lot of information to go on.



It's "newish" In your expert opinion, tell us what is wrong with it and what a piece of junk it is??.
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:49 AM
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It's going to be real difficult to find one a million years old to replace your original one, so you're going to have to settle for a "newer" one.


Kidding aside, by new one shoots as well as my older one, but if you can find a good price on an older one, it should only appreciate in value which new ones may or may not ever do.
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:19 AM
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It's going to be real difficult to find one a million years old to replace your original one, so you're going to have to settle for a "newer" one.


Kidding aside, by new one shoots as well as my older one, but if you can find a good price on an older one, it should only appreciate in value which new ones may or may not ever do.

However. according to several posts here, there is an abundance of used M 41's at crazy cheap prices. So when is the value going to go up?



All I know is my newish one shoots better than I can and it has a warranty, as long as SW produces crummy products
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:59 AM
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Those older ones that are "cheap" at 700 were originally sold from 200 to 400.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:53 PM
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Skjos: Of the 3 pictured, which is most accurate in your hands, and which is your favorite to shoot? I have that same inventory, just curious. My 41 is super accurate but the Ruger just feels better.
They all out shoot me, but the Model 41 is probably the most accurate. However, I have not shot the Ruger since I installed a Volquartsen target sear.

The 2206TGT seems to get to the range most often.
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:46 PM
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It's "newish" In your expert opinion, tell us what is wrong with it and what a piece of junk it is??.
Why are you driven to bait me with this post? You call me an expert... because I have an opinion, and one you seemingly disagree with? If you enjoy new production S&W guns, all good for you. This has nothing to do with me.

I've not seen a Model 41 yet that can overcome a chip on the shoulder. Perhaps you can find an expert to help you with that. Maybe lift the foam out of the case and see if you can find some class.
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Old 12-27-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
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Why are you driven to bait me with this post? You call me an expert... because I have an opinion, and one you seemingly disagree with? If you enjoy new production S&W guns, all good for you. This has nothing to do with me.

I've not seen a Model 41 yet that can overcome a chip on the shoulder. Perhaps you can find an expert to help you with that. Maybe lift the foam out of the case and see if you can find some class.

You stated:
"I intend zero offense to anyone.

I have no interest in buying anything that S&W currently makes, if there is a much earlier version of that same model.

I would not buy a 41 made today unless it was crazy cheap. Even then, I wouldnít buy it to use or keep it.

Especially when talking about a 41, the used market is loaded with them. 41ís are the opposite of scarce."


So clearly you have a opinion on them.Yes I disagree with you, And what is different about them?. Has the platform changes that much over the years?
Now you resort to insults. Tell us what year you M41 is and how it is better than the new ones? A picture would be nice.
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Old 12-27-2019, 06:00 PM
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Read the thread again. I already said what year my 41 is. At no point did I ever say that mine was better or worse than ANY Model 41 thatís ever been built, Springfield or Houlton.

My position is simple: the company whose products have gathered us here on this site has been evolving over many years and I donít care for how it has evolved. Their final QC has seemingly been outsourced to the end consumer. The evidence of this profound. Iíd tell you to do your own research but evidently, you either cannot read or comprehend what I specifically have posted in this conversation so it would be pointless to do so.

The OP specifically asked ďbuy new or buy usedĒ and I prefer used and stated as much. I donít see how that makes me a professional, but that was your conclusion.

Youíve succeeded in your goal of lowering the quality of this discussion.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:18 PM
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Read the thread again. I already said what year my 41 is. At no point did I ever say that mine was better or worse than ANY Model 41 thatís ever been built, Springfield or Houlton.

My position is simple: the company whose products have gathered us here on this site has been evolving over many years and I donít care for how it has evolved. Their final QC has seemingly been outsourced to the end consumer. The evidence of this profound. Iíd tell you to do your own research but evidently, you either cannot read or comprehend what I specifically have posted in this conversation so it would be pointless to do so.

The OP specifically asked ďbuy new or buy usedĒ and I prefer used and stated as much. I donít see how that makes me a professional, but that was your conclusion.

Youíve succeeded in your goal of lowering the quality of this discussion.



Yep. "Duly Noted" Perfectly clear SW today is horrible. I missed that you bought one on Gun Broker. Triple Alpha and all that My bad.
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:21 PM
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I have seen some chatter complaining of the lack of quality of the "Performance Center" model 41's. I have noticed over the years that model 41's seem to have some problems with jamming, unless modified. Accuracy is adequate for competition out of the box. If I were to get one to compete with today, I'd send it to a custom pistolsmith to have it modified. If I were just getting one to shoot recreationally, I'd just buy one and see if it works well with CCI Standard Velocity ammo that they all seem to prefer. If so, happy camper...me. Since you are bound and determined to get one, just dive in and buy a new or good used one and take your chances.
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Old 12-28-2019, 10:51 AM
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I much prefer the old Model 41. The stocks, fit, finish and especially the polish of an old pistol is so much nicer than a currently produced M-41 it's not even a fair comparison. Regrettably younger shooters don't seem to care about cosmetics but for me the attention to detail on the outside correctly suggests the same quality on the inside. This M-41 was built in a time when you didn't need a custom shop or performance center to get a fine tuned gun, every pistol made by S&W was as good as it gets.


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Old 12-28-2019, 01:25 PM
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*I* would say a pre 1990 M41, just from my own experience and later reading at the RFC M41 sub forum. Here's why:

In the 90s, S&W started shifting over to the CNC, laser engraving, MIM parts and all that. All the roll marks, numbers and such on my 1990 are stamped. A friends 1991 is all laser engraved, so at least that changed from one year to the next.

The nice high polish likely ended in 1989, as mine, the frame is highly polished, the bbl and slide not so much so. The 1989s I've seen were completely high polish.

Going from the hand fitting to just assembling parts likely happened along with the CNC, but, IDK. Mine, while not as pretty, ran like a house afire and still does 30 years later. Never felt the need to replace or adjust anything.

Later reading at RFC, it seems the problems started cropping up ~the mid 90s when the 41s moved house for the new CNC equipment? I'm guessing here, but there sure seemed to a lot of problems with people getting their M41s to run properly and the one gunsmith and one M41, start to finish, had gone the way of the Dodo and yes, that really was a thing on the earlier pistols.

Problems with mags also started popping up in this time frame, especially with new mags in older pistols. One S&W rep actually said to give the new mags a squeeze in a vise to get them to work!? Easy to tell with the blister packs. The older ones just list the M41 and 442 on the back. The newer ones list 2 more pistols that they will fit. IIRC, the 2206 is one of them, but not 100% on that.

Edit: Besides the 2206, the other pistol listed is the 622. Apparently the tolerances in the 622 and 2206 were looser and the new mags caused problems in older M41s with tighter tolerances. Not all, but some.

Hope this informs some.

Wet

Last edited by wetdog1911; 01-04-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 12-28-2019, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mike56 View Post
Had a 41 a zillion years ago, needed to sell it.

Would kinda like another. New are pricey, but the used ones are as well.

Any issues with current production? The performance version has a built in rail. Are new barrels available with the rail? My old one was drilled/tapped for a b square rail.
To be honest the newer model 41s just don't have the manufacture quality of a 41 from the 50/60s. I own own several 41s and I have a PC version of the 41. I have to admit that it's an excellent shooter BUT it just doesn't seem to me to have early era 41 quality of manufacture in my humble opinion.
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Old 12-28-2019, 09:07 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Other than the Victory model 22 lr pistol, which I understand many others have had great success with sometimes after minor adjustments, I would buy any S&W if it covered a need. I would not hesitate to buy either a new or older Model 41. I admit, being old myself a slight preference for an older one.
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Old 12-30-2019, 06:15 PM
rich5674 rich5674 is offline
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Default New model

When I was looking for a 41, 3 yrs ago the vintage ones were about the same price as the new ones. I bought a new one. After a Wolf recoil spring change its 100% reliable. Fit, finish and grips are fine with me ( laminate not walnut). Trigger is great, accuracy is great. Lifetime warranty, drilled and tapped for the optics I need. I very pleased and no regrets.
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Old 01-05-2020, 07:25 AM
MJK-MOD-547 MJK-MOD-547 is offline
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Speaking for myself, If I was going to buy a used M41 it would have to be in my hands to inspect first.

If I was in the market for a M41, and my only option was buying off the net, I would buy new.
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Old 01-05-2020, 04:14 PM
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My first two model 41's were older, pre 1990, and my last and current one is 2007 manufacture so I consider it of newer vintage. The 2007 model was bought used, but from a small shop that has a "return it if you aren't happy" policy. There is definitely a finish difference between older and newer model 41 pistols, but as long as they function ok, I can't tell much difference in shooting them. I have never had function issues with any of my 41 pistols, but with everything that I see today on the shooting forums, I wouldn't want to buy one without being able to handle it, and even then I would like to be able to shoot it first if I had the opportunity.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:54 PM
Barrie Barrie is offline
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I am the same, No shoot No buy. I want it to work correctly the same as the ones I own already.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Frame.SquareButt View Post
One went on GB the other day around $700 that I was watching. Funny how that pricing thing works when you get older. I wanted an accurate 22 pistol back in the 80's when I was in high school. Was down between a 41 and a Victor. Got the Victor for $270. Finally picked up a 41 a few years back for around $600. Now the funny thing is you hear how accurate the 41 and Victor are but I put both on a Ransom Rest along with a Ruger Mk2 Govt Target that I paid $220 for and the Ruger out shot both and did it with Rem Golden bullets.
That particular test protocol can be a bit deceiving.

A Ransom rest cures a whole lot of ills and shortcomings and leaves pure mechanical accuracy to be tested. That's fine, but it also doesn't reflect how well a pistol may shoot in a shooter's hand.

For example, I can shoot a national match course (10 shots slow fire, 2 strings of 5 shots timed fire, and 2 strings of 5 shots rapid fire with my Mk I 678 Target, my Mk II 512 Target and either one of my High Standard 107 Victors, and I'll score about 15 points higher with the Victor. It balances better, it fits my hand better, and the trigger is significantly better than the Volquartzen triggers in my Rugers. By design, a Ransom rest doesn't care about the trigger, the balance or the grip.
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