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  #51  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:58 AM
kleiss1 kleiss1 is offline
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“Machine rest” could be the difference. No “limp wrist with that.
I would prefer someone actually fire the weapon.
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  #52  
Old 01-20-2020, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleiss1 View Post
“Machine rest” could be the difference. No “limp wrist with that.
I would prefer someone actually fire the weapon.
Only the Mod 52's were fired from a ransom machine rest to test for accuracy.
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  #53  
Old 01-21-2020, 07:24 AM
MJK-MOD-547 MJK-MOD-547 is offline
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I have taken my model 41 bolt appart. I also checked the holes in a new one.

The holes for the firing pin and extactor and spring were gritty or rough inside on both. So I polished the entire bolts. Now the firing pin and the extractor feel smooth as glass when moving on both.

But then again I'm an ex toolmaker and I look for operations that I would have done.

+1 on the wolf spring kit.

Last edited by MJK-MOD-547; 01-21-2020 at 07:39 AM.
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  #54  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:40 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by MJK-MOD-547 View Post
I have taken my model 41 bolt appart. I also checked the holes in a new one.

The holes for the firing pin and extactor and spring were gritty or rough inside on both. So I polished the entire bolts. Now the firing pin and the extractor feel smooth as glass when moving on both.

But then again I'm an ex toolmaker and I look for operations that I would have done.

+1 on the wolf spring kit.
Are you saying this should be done on a new $1,400 gun? Thanks.
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  #55  
Old 01-22-2020, 06:32 AM
MJK-MOD-547 MJK-MOD-547 is offline
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Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
Are you saying this should be done on a new $1,400 gun? Thanks.
No, I'm not saying that, but wanted to point out that if your bolt has gritty holes, especially the hole that holds the spring and plunger for the ejector, that could play a part with the problems your having.

If it was me, I would send it back, get a refund and buy another one.

I'm glad I didn't have to send mine out to some high priced Smith to "work wonders" when all their going to do is POLISH PARTS !
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  #56  
Old 01-22-2020, 09:28 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by MJK-MOD-547 View Post
No, I'm not saying that, but wanted to point out that if your bolt has gritty holes, especially the hole that holds the spring and plunger for the ejector, that could play a part with the problems your having.

If it was me, I would send it back, get a refund and buy another one.

I'm glad I didn't have to send mine out to some high priced Smith to "work wonders" when all their going to do is POLISH PARTS !
Thanks again for the input.

I am hoping SW will take a look at that if that can be the issue and hopefully will do a complete tear down to get to the root of the issues. From my past experience with them I find they usually just change a few little parts, like ejector, extractor, etc, and send it back out the door. I don't think they do a thorough job of looking at it.

As for, "If it was me, I would send it back, get a refund and buy another one.", this is the SECOND one. Please check the opening statement. That is part of the reason for having a short wick this time around. The first one I had was basically the same and now this one is sent back for the second time.

FedEx delivered it to them yesterday so we just have to wait. Not an easy thing to do though.
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  #57  
Old 01-22-2020, 08:06 PM
mandkthomas mandkthomas is offline
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my third replacement slide is working effectively - like the other four. That makes 2 of 7 brand new magazines in my pistol prone to failure to eject...
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  #58  
Old 01-22-2020, 09:46 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by mandkthomas View Post
my third replacement slide is working effectively - like the other four. That makes 2 of 7 brand new magazines in my pistol prone to failure to eject...
So..................... that's what I to look forward to.

I think this was a fourteen hundred dollar mistake.
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  #59  
Old 01-23-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
So..................... that's what I to look forward to.

I think this was a fourteen hundred dollar mistake.
Send it to Alex Hamilton at Ten Ring Precision. One of the best Model 41 gunsmiths in the country.

He'll straighten it out. He can re-line the barrel, too.
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2020, 09:23 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by K-9 View Post
Send it to Alex Hamilton at Ten Ring Precision. One of the best Model 41 gunsmiths in the country.

He'll straighten it out. He can re-line the barrel, too.
Like I previously said, this is a NEW $1,400 gun. Why would anyone put hundreds of more dollars into it to "... straighten it out?" Thanks for the input.
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  #61  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:02 PM
Arman4461 Arman4461 is offline
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Default S&W model 41 quality

Blackemmons,
Your question is the reason I buy S&W’s built from 1975 to 1940. I have one model 41 left after years of owning six at one time. I sold off my others to allow me to have funds for experimenting with Colt, Pardini and Sig pistols. The model 41’s I have owned all had the same features, they worked and were accurate. The older the 41 is, the better the metal polish and bluing is. All of the 41’s made in the 1940’s thru late 50’s appeared to be hand assembled. I suspect the hand fitment stopped when the factory started using CNC machinery. My last model 41 is a 7&3/8” model with the muzzle break. It accepts old magazines as well as the latest mags with the cheaper plastic follower, and is perfectly reliable with all. It isn’t quite as accurate as the Pardini SP-22 I have, but at 25 and 50 yards, it has no problem keeping Wolf MT or Federal 711-B inside the 10-ring with 10 shots from a rest. With my love of older models evident, I helped a young gent that has a newer 41 with some of your problems. He showed up at the range with CCI SV. He had FTF and blamed the new mags. I let him try my old mags and he still had FTF. I handed him a mag of Wolf MT and a mag of Geco Semi-auto and had him pull the barrel and let me clean it and lube the slide rails with CLP oil. His next 10 rounds fired and functioned perfectly. His model 41 isn’t as pretty as my 1958 model, and my 2# trigger pull arrived before lawyers ruined the world, but his 41 is plenty accurate, and he enjoys it now. A good cleaning and trying out ten or more brands of ammo may be what gets you going. Light oiling of the rails and a couple of drops of oil on the recoil rod should be tried, before giving up. CCI SV is ok, but the ammo available to you has a lot of dimensions that vary. My Pardini won’t function with CCI SV, but delivers a ragged hole with Wolf MT as well as Federal 711-B. You won’t know till you try.
Good luck!
Arman
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  #62  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:34 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman4461 View Post
Blackemmons,
Your question is the reason I buy S&W’s built from 1975 to 1940. I have one model 41 left after years of owning six at one time. I sold off my others to allow me to have funds for experimenting with Colt, Pardini and Sig pistols. The model 41’s I have owned all had the same features, they worked and were accurate. The older the 41 is, the better the metal polish and bluing is. All of the 41’s made in the 1940’s thru late 50’s appeared to be hand assembled. I suspect the hand fitment stopped when the factory started using CNC machinery. My last model 41 is a 7&3/8” model with the muzzle break. It accepts old magazines as well as the latest mags with the cheaper plastic follower, and is perfectly reliable with all. It isn’t quite as accurate as the Pardini SP-22 I have, but at 25 and 50 yards, it has no problem keeping Wolf MT or Federal 711-B inside the 10-ring with 10 shots from a rest. With my love of older models evident, I helped a young gent that has a newer 41 with some of your problems. He showed up at the range with CCI SV. He had FTF and blamed the new mags. I let him try my old mags and he still had FTF. I handed him a mag of Wolf MT and a mag of Geco Semi-auto and had him pull the barrel and let me clean it and lube the slide rails with CLP oil. His next 10 rounds fired and functioned perfectly. His model 41 isn’t as pretty as my 1958 model, and my 2# trigger pull arrived before lawyers ruined the world, but his 41 is plenty accurate, and he enjoys it now. A good cleaning and trying out ten or more brands of ammo may be what gets you going. Light oiling of the rails and a couple of drops of oil on the recoil rod should be tried, before giving up. CCI SV is ok, but the ammo available to you has a lot of dimensions that vary. My Pardini won’t function with CCI SV, but delivers a ragged hole with Wolf MT as well as Federal 711-B. You won’t know till you try.
Good luck!
Arman
Arman, Thanks for the info and advise.

As ot today, just call, they haven't repaired it(the second time).

As previously stated, I called them before I got the first lemon to see what ammo I needed to purchase if I bought one. The answer was CCI SV is the "preferred ammo". OK with me so I started down this path. If I have to start purchasing a separate ammo at 3-4 times the price for the Model 41 it's going to be gone. I still am in disbelieve that a $1400 gun needs this much attention to make it go bang. All of my other 22lr pistols(14) from my 1952 Colt Match Target to my Taurus TX22 do not need this much attention and don't create this much disappointment. Are they all as accurate as the 41. probably not except for the old Colt.

At 76, SW has always had a great reputation with me. With my recent experience with my Shield, M&P 15-22 and two Model 41's this has changed dramatically. That being said, I believe you are correct and probably with most brands.... buy the old stuff. The new Colt Python would also fit in that category from what I have seen.

Thanks for the input.

Last edited by blackemmons; 01-29-2020 at 06:50 PM.
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  #63  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:45 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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............... to be continued. Due back today.
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  #64  
Old 02-06-2020, 03:02 PM
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Default Problem S&W Model 41

I have an original my father bought in 1962. Build and ship date verified with Roy Jinks years back before he retired. Of course I shot it when I was a kid, now 70 and gun is immaculate as brand new. 7" barrel and target wood grips. I shoot it a few times each year just because it shoots like a dream and is a "tack driver". Have never had stove pipes, FTE or other malfunctions. Only rare FTF's then just rotated the cartridge and the fringing pin hit a different part on the rim and bang. So bad ammo. This is the best quality gun I own.
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  #65  
Old 02-06-2020, 09:08 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Well.................... that's over.

FedEx brought the Model 41 back today after the second trip to SW repair shop. I immediately jumped in the truck and headed to Bud's Guns and Range.

Loaded up three mags with CCI Standard Velocity and shot them. Loaded up three mags with CCI Mini Mag and shot them. Loaded up three mags with Remington Thunderbolt and shot them. That process took almost 30 minutes. Because........ the SAME issues plus a new one. The new one being that the next mags would not go in if the slide was held open on the last round(slide did not lock open all of the time). It would stick out of the mag well 3/8" and would not go any further.

Struggled through another nine magazines and finally gave up.

Back on the phone with SW and got their standard response. "We will email you a return authorization." No offer of a replacement or even mention of it. Told them to hold off on that and I would call them back if I needed it.

Went back to the FFL dealer(smga.com) where I purchased it and the first one I had. The manager was more understanding than SW. He gave me my money back.

No more SW's for me, unless it old.
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  #66  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:34 PM
kleiss1 kleiss1 is offline
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Sorry to hear.
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  #67  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:42 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Thanks kleiss1. Such is life. SW and I are both happier now.

I am out about 500 rounds of ammo, trips to range, FFL and FedEx, a lot of time and had two months of agony. I really wanted that gun to work as advertised but..........

Last edited by blackemmons; 02-06-2020 at 10:46 PM.
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  #68  
Old 02-06-2020, 10:45 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlieo View Post
I have an original my father bought in 1962. Build and ship date verified with Roy Jinks years back before he retired. Of course I shot it when I was a kid, now 70 and gun is immaculate as brand new. 7" barrel and target wood grips. I shoot it a few times each year just because it shoots like a dream and is a "tack driver". Have never had stove pipes, FTE or other malfunctions. Only rare FTF's then just rotated the cartridge and the fringing pin hit a different part on the rim and bang. So bad ammo. This is the best quality gun I own.
That's the kind of gun I expected for $1,400. Like I alluded to, they just don't make 'um like they use to.
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  #69  
Old 02-07-2020, 12:47 AM
rct269 rct269 is offline
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Wink VOILA!!!

It sounds to me like I had the answer!

I had three Model 41's in My collection of S&W target arms---an early, regular, everyday version; one of those with the short, fat barrel with the extendable front sight, and a 41-1---one of the very last made. I never fired a single one of them, and they all worked out just fine!

Ralph Tremaine
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  #70  
Old 02-07-2020, 09:12 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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It sounds to me like I had the answer!

I had three Model 41's in My collection of S&W target arms---an early, regular, everyday version; one of those with the short, fat barrel with the extendable front sight, and a 41-1---one of the very last made. I never fired a single one of them, and they all worked out just fine!

Ralph Tremaine
Thanks for the input. Lost a few bucks on that experience but I learned a couple of things also. I'll stick to Kel-Tec, Taurus and Hi Point.
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  #71  
Old 02-07-2020, 10:13 AM
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I had a M41 made in 1982, purchased the shorter 5" barrel as an accessory so I could set it up either long or short.

After shooting 15 different brands in a head to head accuracy test with it against my 1970 Colt match Target... I sold the M41 as I wasn't as accurate with it as with the Colt.
Can't recall if it malfunctioned with any particular ammo on a regular basis, just wasn't as good a grouper as the Colt (in my hand)- maybe it was the grip angle or maybe it was the gun, I don't know or care.
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  #72  
Old 02-07-2020, 11:01 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by 125JHP View Post
I had a M41 made in 1982, purchased the shorter 5" barrel as an accessory so I could set it up either long or short.

After shooting 15 different brands in a head to head accuracy test with it against my 1970 Colt match Target... I sold the M41 as I wasn't as accurate with it as with the Colt.
Can't recall if it malfunctioned with any particular ammo on a regular basis, just wasn't as good a grouper as the Colt (in my hand)- maybe it was the grip angle or maybe it was the gun, I don't know or care.

125JHP, How true about the Colt Match Target. I have 1954 Colt Match Target that was given to me new and it seems to be light years ahead of the new 41 I had. With one exception! That being field stripping the thing. The 41 is MUCH easier. Thanks.
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  #73  
Old 02-08-2020, 11:57 PM
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Sorry to hear about your M41 troubles...I've owned or been issued somewhere over a dozen and have a new PC 41 now that I'm working with. It shoots extremely well with Eley Tenex ammo; I intend to use it this season for bullseye. I like everything about the PC 41. I understand your frustration, though...I had free armory support if I had a problem (and I had a few).
Bob

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  #74  
Old 02-09-2020, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Backlighting View Post
Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.
Ditto with me. Sold the 41 ten years ago. Bought a Ruger MKIII, added a few goodies; north of 15,000 rounds later of very accurate, and virtually trouble free performance.
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  #75  
Old 02-09-2020, 09:29 AM
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[QUOTE=OIF2;140667414]Sorry to hear about your M41 troubles...I've owned or been issued somewhere over a dozen and have a new PC 41 now that I'm working with. It shoots extremely well with Eley Tenex ammo; I intend to use it this season for bullseye. I like everything about the PC 41. I understand your frustration, though...I had free armory support if I had a problem (and I had a few).
Bob

Thanks Bob. I really wanted that thing to work. But after two new lemons I was not dedicated to keep trying and not willing to spend .35/round to make(or try to make) it work. Just a bad experience for me. Third one with SW in recent years.
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  #76  
Old 02-09-2020, 01:37 PM
MJK-MOD-547 MJK-MOD-547 is offline
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I just returned from a trip to the range with my M-41.

I fired about 200 rounds with no malfunctions. I fired three mags rapid fire in a row. Slide stayed open after every empty mag. I was shooting Rem Thunderbolts.

Since polishing the 2 different sized holes for the firing pin and the hole for the ejector I have been able to shoot the most inexpensive ammo with no problems.

$14.99 for 500 rounds.
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  #77  
Old 02-09-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MJK-MOD-547 View Post
I just returned from a trip to the range with my M-41.

I fired about 200 rounds with no malfunctions. I fired three mags rapid fire in a row. Slide stayed open after every empty mag. I was shooting Rem Thunderbolts.

Since polishing the 2 different sized holes for the firing pin and the hole for the ejector I have been able to shoot the most inexpensive ammo with no problems.

$14.99 for 500 rounds.
I'm glad to see you have a good one. When was it manufactured?

I shot Thunderbolt is both of them that I had. It wasn't any worse(or better), except for a little more smoke, than CCI stuff. How about CCI Standard Velosity? Thanks.
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  #78  
Old 02-09-2020, 02:27 PM
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Geesh! I’m nearly stunned. I just don’t know of anyone who ever had serious problems with a 41. Lots of guys aren’t wild about the trigger, but other than that - nothing! I’m sure sorry to hear of your troubles. As you say, for a $1400 target pistol, expecting it to run properly without any customer-applied tuning/fiddling is not asking too much. You are wise to move on. Enough is enough.

BTW, has nothing to do with your situation but it might interest you to know all new ones are not that way. I have a friend with a 7-inch standard-model 41 that is probably two months old, maybe three. His gun works fine and he’s very happy with it. I’ve seen it, but not fired it. Looks good to me.

PS... nearly everyone I know uses CCI SV when we can get it.

Last edited by M29since14; 02-09-2020 at 02:29 PM. Reason: CCI SV comment added
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  #79  
Old 02-09-2020, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Geesh! I’m nearly stunned. I just don’t know of anyone who ever had serious problems with a 41. Lots of guys aren’t wild about the trigger, but other than that - nothing! I’m sure sorry to hear of your troubles. As you say, for a $1400 target pistol, expecting it to run properly without any customer-applied tuning/fiddling is not asking too much. You are wise to move on. Enough is enough.

BTW, has nothing to do with your situation but it might interest you to know all new ones are not that way. I have a friend with a 7-inch standard-model 41 that is probably two months old, maybe three. His gun works fine and he’s very happy with it. I’ve seen it, but not fired it. Looks good to me.

PS... nearly everyone I know uses CCI SV when we can get it.

Thanks M29since14

I'm sure they do make some "good" ones but I had two new ones and two trips to SW repair shop. Maybe I just give up too easily.

I would have thought that after the second trip to repair with the second gun and more issues than when I started they would have offered a replacement but....................... no.

I know it wasn't just my imagination because I had worker at Bud's Guns Shop try it to verify it wasn't just me. When I took it back to the FFL where I purchased it they couldn't get the mags to go in either. They didn't have to shoot it to see it was bad. Such is life.
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  #80  
Old 02-09-2020, 04:13 PM
MJK-MOD-547 MJK-MOD-547 is offline
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Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
I'm glad to see you have a good one. When was it manufactured?

I shot Thunderbolt is both of them that I had. It wasn't any worse(or better), except for a little more smoke, than CCI stuff. How about CCI Standard Velosity? Thanks.
Yes this will shoot CCI standard but it's more expensive to shoot.
Mine was manufactured in 1982. I removed the bolt for the first time and compared it with an NOS one because the nos bolt holes were gritty. Whether this is by design to catch carbon I don't know.

I have drilled holes like that after discovering I used the wrong speed on the mill or drill press or a bit that needed resharpened.

I used pin gauges to check the hole sizes on both bolts.
They only varied .001 but the holes were slightly scored on both.
The spring for the ejector did not move smooth in either bolt when the pin was moved.
So I ran reamers that were .001 larger than what the pin gauges indicated to polish the scratches without enlarging the holes.
When tested it felt smooth without the gritty feel.

One bad apple can make the whole barrel SMELL.
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  #81  
Old 02-09-2020, 04:30 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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"One bad apple can make the whole barrel SMELL." Yup. And I had two of 'um. Thanks for the input.

Last edited by blackemmons; 02-09-2020 at 04:32 PM.
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  #82  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:16 PM
S&W-Keeper S&W-Keeper is offline
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I have a model 41 from 1976,it is the biggest pain in the butt that I have ever had.I have the same problems.Failure to feed,failure to extract. Failure to fire.When it shoots it shoots in the same hole.I take it out of the safe ever couple of years to see if it is any better.I have tried all brands of ammo.I probably should sell it.
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  #83  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:00 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by S&W-Keeper View Post
I have a model 41 from 1976,it is the biggest pain in the butt that I have ever had.I have the same problems.Failure to feed,failure to extract. Failure to fire.When it shoots it shoots in the same hole.I take it out of the safe ever couple of years to see if it is any better.I have tried all brands of ammo.I probably should sell it.
S&W-Keeper, Thanks. I would have thought a 1976 model would have been great. So how did this gun get such and excellent reputation? I wonder what percentage of owners have issues and just don't say anything.

I've moved on and purchased another suppressor. Now we start the ATF wait again(9 months last time). Perhaps it will be my Christmas present.
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  #84  
Old 02-14-2020, 01:09 AM
n c rod n c rod is offline
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Forget S&W factory service. Send it to a gunsmith that CAN fix a 41. Clark David Sams KC Custom. It's not a perfect world but if it's man made it can be fixed.
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:30 AM
Minuteman413 Minuteman413 is offline
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Blackemmons. First of i would like to say hello im new to the page. My family has worked at the plant for the last 100 years if not longer than that. My father is a 1st shift shooter pistol .he has been ther over 42 years besides his stay in the army in between. His service award 41 is beautiful and works like a dream. I feal it is equivalent to the originals. Only difference is the process. The old ones where more hand onand the old timers really new there ****. The factory now still runs out a temp office on new employees and the training is not as it used tp be but the top people like my father and others still around do there jobs very well. If you would like if its still at the factory i can aask my father to take a look for you and see if anything special can be done. If it was me and you have it. try running some high velocity through it sometimes can help brake it in. I had issues with my m&p 40 and it went back to factory 2ce they took very good care of me. Sorry you have to go through this but it happens from time to time. But let me know if you want me to drop a line for you and get some inside attention i might be able to help. Thanks for the post im glad i stumbled across this page. Smith and wesson has been a family staple has kept us fead and clothed and is a good company.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:26 AM
Dave Lively Dave Lively is offline
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Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
S&W-Keeper, Thanks. I would have thought a 1976 model would have been great. So how did this gun get such and excellent reputation? I wonder what percentage of owners have issues and just don't say anything.
I bought mine in the mid 90s because Ihad a friend in the 80s that had a 41 and it was great. Accurate and reliable. I think there are a lot of 41s that fit that description, probably the majority of them. The internet has a megaphone effect and those of us with problem 41s are the ones most likely to post.

In my case the big problem was I kept reading that the 41 was designed for standard velocity ammo, CCI standard in particular, and should not be fed high velocity ammo. It may have been designed for that ammo but mine hates it. Thirty years ago I would have read the manual and seen no restrictions on ammo, noticed that it runs great with CCI Minimags but not standard velocity and happily used Minimags while bragging about how great my 41 is. Instead I wasted a lot of time posting here and changing parts trying to get it to run right with CCI standard velocity.

Last edited by Dave Lively; 02-14-2020 at 10:16 AM.
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  #87  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:51 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by n c rod View Post
Forget S&W factory service. Send it to a gunsmith that CAN fix a 41. Clark David Sams KC Custom. It's not a perfect world but if it's man made it can be fixed.
n c rod: I refuse to send a new $1,400 gun to a gunsmith to get it to the level of quality it should have come from the factory with. I have returned the gun to the FFL and got my money back. Thanks.
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  #88  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:55 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minuteman413 View Post
Blackemmons. First of i would like to say hello im new to the page. My family has worked at the plant for the last 100 years if not longer than that. My father is a 1st shift shooter pistol .he has been ther over 42 years besides his stay in the army in between. His service award 41 is beautiful and works like a dream. I feal it is equivalent to the originals. Only difference is the process. The old ones where more hand onand the old timers really new there ****. The factory now still runs out a temp office on new employees and the training is not as it used tp be but the top people like my father and others still around do there jobs very well. If you would like if its still at the factory i can aask my father to take a look for you and see if anything special can be done. If it was me and you have it. try running some high velocity through it sometimes can help brake it in. I had issues with my m&p 40 and it went back to factory 2ce they took very good care of me. Sorry you have to go through this but it happens from time to time. But let me know if you want me to drop a line for you and get some inside attention i might be able to help. Thanks for the post im glad i stumbled across this page. Smith and wesson has been a family staple has kept us fead and clothed and is a good company.
Minuteman413: Thanks for the offer but I no longer have the gun. As for SW, I'm done with the new stuff. The only guns I have returned to the factory in recent years are SW's. They are easy to work with but if it doesn't get repaired it makes no difference.
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  #89  
Old 02-14-2020, 09:58 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Dave Lively - As previously stated, I purchased the 41 because it was suppose to like CCI Standard Velocity. Where I live, I don't need the sonic boom of supersonic ammo. It's over for me.
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  #90  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:40 PM
Dave686 Dave686 is offline
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Blackemmons, I understand your frustration; but at least you got your money back.

I have been a Smith & Wesson fanboy all my life. I've been buying their guns for over 40 years; and will continue to do so.

I’ve had to send a couple of guns back, and they promptly fixed the problem. A couple of years ago I bought a “Performance Center” C.O.R.E. that was an absolute ***. The trigger was the worst I have ever seen on a handgun. After sending it in, and getting it back, with them saying it was “Okay”; it was still terrible, they did nothing.

I assumed it must just be a CS person that didn’t want to do their job, so I wrote a letter and sent copies to the President and the Firearms Director of S&W. I was immediately contacted by a CS person that said he had just come from the Firearms Directors office and was told to fix the problem. Great! The problem will be fixed.

But unfortunately not. After sending it in a second time, it was sent back again saying it was okay. I feel like I had a CS person that wanted me to know who was running the CS Department, and it wasn’t the Firearms Director. I gave up and bought an Apex trigger.

So no, you shouldn’t have to send your $1400 gun to a third party to make it perform right. Luckily I could do mine myself, but unfortunately for me I couldn’t get my money back. I’ll never waste my money on a “Performance Center” product again.

I’m a recently retired Toolmaker. Other than a few years as a cop; I’ve spent most of my life in manufacturing. The capabilities are far better than they were in “the old days”. The guns from back then would not be any better; I know that because I was buying them and still have some. what has changed is how Smith & Wesson responds to the problem. They don’t care.
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  #91  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:33 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave686 View Post
Blackemmons, I understand your frustration; but at least you got your money back.

I have been a Smith & Wesson fanboy all my life. I've been buying their guns for over 40 years; and will continue to do so.

I’ve had to send a couple of guns back, and they promptly fixed the problem. A couple of years ago I bought a “Performance Center” C.O.R.E. that was an absolute ***. The trigger was the worst I have ever seen on a handgun. After sending it in, and getting it back, with them saying it was “Okay”; it was still terrible, they did nothing.

I assumed it must just be a CS person that didn’t want to do their job, so I wrote a letter and sent copies to the President and the Firearms Director of S&W. I was immediately contacted by a CS person that said he had just come from the Firearms Directors office and was told to fix the problem. Great! The problem will be fixed.

But unfortunately not. After sending it in a second time, it was sent back again saying it was okay. I feel like I had a CS person that wanted me to know who was running the CS Department, and it wasn’t the Firearms Director. I gave up and bought an Apex trigger.

So no, you shouldn’t have to send your $1400 gun to a third party to make it perform right. Luckily I could do mine myself, but unfortunately for me I couldn’t get my money back. I’ll never waste my money on a “Performance Center” product again.

I’m a recently retired Toolmaker. Other than a few years as a cop; I’ve spent most of my life in manufacturing. The capabilities are far better than they were in “the old days”. The guns from back then would not be any better; I know that because I was buying them and still have some. what has changed is how Smith & Wesson responds to the problem. They don’t care.
Dave686 - I can see you are a SW fanboy by the handle.

I guess you can see where I was coming from and understand. I just thought that being in business for 164 years they still cared about their reputation. I guess times have changed. Thanks for the info.
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  #92  
Old 02-17-2020, 07:29 PM
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Narragansett Narragansett is offline
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Very sorry to hear of all your troubles. Why not look for an older one? I just got a 1968 5.5" that I have not fired yet. I have been too busy buying mags for it, but I plan to try it out soon. The seller told me to use CCI SV. Told me in tens of thousands of rounds he has never had a problem. We,ll see.

Why not go on the hunt for an A prefix serial number or a pre A serial number gun?

I understand if your answer is simply had enough
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  #93  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:29 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by Narragansett View Post
Very sorry to hear of all your troubles. Why not look for an older one? I just got a 1968 5.5" that I have not fired yet. I have been too busy buying mags for it, but I plan to try it out soon. The seller told me to use CCI SV. Tolf me in tens of thousands of rounds he has never had a problem. We,ll see.

Why not go on the hunt for an A prefix serial number or a pre A serial number gun?

I understand if your answer is simply had enough
Pete, You are so right. I've had enough. There are too many other manufactures out there that make stuff just as good and sometimes better. I still have a bunch of SW's but not buying more. You are right, I should have purchased an older one.

Thanks
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Old 02-18-2020, 09:10 AM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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I recently purchased my 1st Mod 41. 1979 shipped IIRC. According to the seller it was his father’s and had been in a closet for 20+ years. Took it straight to the range with 5-6 types of 22LR I had on hand. Some standard velocity and some high velocity. Ate them all without a hitch. Surprising to me the most accurate were Federal Match Hunter HP and Remington Golden Bullet! Tried CCI SV and Aguila SV but neither were close in accuracy. Guess I got lucky. Almost scared to strip and clean since it runs perfect
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:03 AM
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To improve reliability with a M41, do a search here and look for my posts about the $11 Volquartsen extractor. IMHO it solves most extraction, stove-piping and jamming issues with this model. This applies to ALL M41's (vintage or new) - even if they are right out of the box!! Midway sells them for $11 bucks and installation is simple and should take no more than 15 minutes. IMHO it's the single most important and meaningful upgrade one could do to his M41! They are FAR superior to the stamped out Factory part!!!
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:31 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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I recently purchased my 1st Mod 41. 1979 shipped IIRC. According to the seller it was his father’s and had been in a closet for 20+ years. Took it straight to the range with 5-6 types of 22LR I had on hand. Some standard velocity and some high velocity. Ate them all without a hitch. Surprising to me the most accurate were Federal Match Hunter HP and Remington Golden Bullet! Tried CCI SV and Aguila SV but neither were close in accuracy. Guess I got lucky. Almost scared to strip and clean since it runs perfect
Happy you did not have my two experiences. I'm done with the 41. Thanks.
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Old 02-18-2020, 10:36 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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To improve reliability with a M41, do a search here and look for my posts about the $11 Volquartsen extractor. IMHO it solves most extraction, stove-piping and jamming issues with this model. This applies to ALL M41's (vintage or new) - even if they are right out of the box!! Midway sells them for $11 bucks and installation is simple and should take no more than 15 minutes. IMHO it's the single most important and meaningful upgrade one could do to his M41! They are FAR superior to the stamped out Factory part!!!
So why doesn't SW put a " $11 Volquartsen extractor" in the 41 if that's the cure? After 168 years in business you would think they would be as smart as Volquartsen. I'm always amazed at how aftermarket folks take the time to get it right. Thanks chief38
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  #98  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:41 AM
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On the advice of those that know far more about 41's than I do, I held out and waited to find a gently used 41 from the first few years of the gun's production. What I was told was that before about serial number 75,000, the guns were essentially handmade and hand tuned. Mine has a 42xx serial number and dates to February 1958.

I've probably put 2,000 rounds or so down the pipe, and I could count on one hand how many FTF's and FTE's I've had. As it happens I've been mostly shooting CCI standard velocity ammo, which (according to this thread) was the preferred factory ammo. I knew that I should be shooting standard velocity ammo through it, though, so I guess I got lucky in terms of ammo manufacturer.

My 41 is an absolute joy to shoot, so much so that I sold my Rugers, my Colt Woodsman, and many other fine .22's that were almost as superb as my 41.

I've handled a few of the new 41's and while they look the same, they don't quite feel the same in hand. Something about the weight and the balance. I'm not sure how that translates into the actual build quality, but by the OP's accounts, the 41's now are nothing like they were back in the day.

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Old 02-18-2020, 11:16 AM
Jim Watson Jim Watson is online now
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Sad story.
I suggest you splurge on Expensive Italian or Expensive German. A friend has a very nice Walther GSP.

My 1970s M41 does fine on CCI SV and Aquila SV. It was ok on Federal Auto Match during the shortages when Dick's seemed able to keep it in stock. I don't ask it to shoot cheap bulk, but see below.

My 1970s High Standard is at least as accurate and maybe better, and the trigger pull is great. It is absolutely dependent on good magazines and getting five for Steel Challenge was, well, a challenge. It is a CCI SV gun, period. They are known to crack frames with HV.

The Nelson Conversion on a 1911 frame is a good shooter.

I have a quantity of ammo salvaged after The Incident Including House Fire. The Aquila SV shoots reliably enough in the M41 for practice and plinking; I found some WW T22 to try. Salvaged Wolf and SK will not function the M41 or High Standard, but are fine in my 1960s Woodsman.
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Old 02-18-2020, 11:59 AM
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Trooper224 Trooper224 is offline
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Quote:
So my question is, am I just unlucky or has the quality of these gone to $#@!?
Yes................
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