Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices

Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols Other Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols from the 1950's to Present


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:59 PM
Dave686 Dave686 is offline
US Veteran
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 161
Likes: 23
Liked 110 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
So why doesn't SW put a " $11 Volquartsen extractor" in the 41 if that's the cure? After 168 years in business you would think they would be as smart as Volquartsen.
Prezactly!!

And why can’t they put good triggers in their M&P’s and Match Grade triggers in the “Pro Series” or “Performance Center” guns. They don’t do it because we buy the guns anyway and spend $169 with Apex for a trigger.

The “You need to buy an old one” is non-sense also. That’s perpetuated by the people that have them and want to think they are more “valuable” than a new one. I advertised and tried to buy a used Model 41. I could buy new at the time (last November) from KY gun for $1030. But everyone that sent me information either wanted that much or more, or they were in bad shape. I ended up buying a Ruger Mark IV Competition.

I recently watched the threads on this forum and others about the problems with the Shield EZ. Plenty of people had, and still have problems. But the threads became crazy with people that wanted to post they had one, and it didn’t have any problems. It’s the same with CS. I was one of those people that had been treated well by CS for years. Until I wasn’t. Hopefully that won’t happen to others but based on what I have seen it very well could.

Good CS no longer exists in most places. S&W appears to have headed down that path. But who knows; maybe someone could fix the problem and take them back to where they should be.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:46 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by first-model View Post
On the advice of those that know far more about 41's than I do, I held out and waited to find a gently used 41 from the first few years of the gun's production. What I was told was that before about serial number 75,000, the guns were essentially handmade and hand tuned. Mine has a 42xx serial number and dates to February 1958.

I've probably put 2,000 rounds or so down the pipe, and I could count on one hand how many FTF's and FTE's I've had. As it happens I've been mostly shooting CCI standard velocity ammo, which (according to this thread) was the preferred factory ammo. I knew that I should be shooting standard velocity ammo through it, though, so I guess I got lucky in terms of ammo manufacturer.

My 41 is an absolute joy to shoot, so much so that I sold my Rugers, my Colt Woodsman, and many other fine .22's that were almost as superb as my 41.

I've handled a few of the new 41's and while they look the same, they don't quite feel the same in hand. Something about the weight and the balance. I'm not sure how that translates into the actual build quality, but by the OP's accounts, the 41's now are nothing like they were back in the day.

Mike
You are probably right Mike, I should have purchased a "gently used" one. All hindsight now and my bad. But, I'm not taking another bite at it.

As for other 22lr pistols, I wouldn't trade my 1952 Colt Match Target for any SW 41. 😊
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #103  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:53 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 380
Liked 843 Times in 467 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
No more SW's for me, unless it old.
I feel your pain. I had a new mid-1990s era M41 that was a great shooter, until it wasn't. Around 2002 or so, it started to malfunction. The trigger would not reset. It made two trips to S&W and came back with a list of things they had replaced, all for naught. It continued to malfunction in the same way. I finally sold it and the five 12 round magazines that I had accumulated for action pistol competition. My impression of S&W service was that they had a bunch of rookies working on the guns who did not really know how to diagnose problems. They were just guessing, and replacing parts. And not testing to see whether they had solved the problem or not.
Around 2006 I purchased a used early 1980s era M41 after test firing it with the original owner. I competed in action shooting with it for 3 years. I don't shoot it much anymore, but it has never malfunctioned, not even once (touch wood). I use SV ammo only.

In the past year or so, I have purchased five guns from a large volume online dealer. Three revolvers, two of them were Smiths and one was a Ruger single action. All three had to make trips back to the factory for initial quality or functional problems. Ruger still malfunctioned after two trips (the cylinder latch would not hold) and I had to fix it using aftermarket parts. Both Smiths came back from the factory with finish damage (little dings and scratches).
The other two guns I had bought online were S&W polymer framed auto pistols, and had absolutely no issues with either of them.
My guess is that the polymer guns are easier to manufacture since there are fewer parts to assemble, and some of them are molded to net shape or near net shape. Revolvers and other all-steel guns have alot more machine parts to assemble. Some of those parts are outsourced and apparently the quality plan is not adequate.
I have used online vendors to save money, but I would not do that again. I would not buy a S&W product unless I could thoroughly inspect it and even disassemble it. Otherwise, you are asking for trouble IMHO.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:13 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 16 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
I feel your pain. I had a new mid-1990s era M41 that was a great shooter, until it wasn't. Around 2002 or so, it started to malfunction. The trigger would not reset. It made two trips to S&W and came back with a list of things they had replaced, all for naught. It continued to malfunction in the same way. I finally sold it and the five 12 round magazines that I had accumulated for action pistol competition. My impression of S&W service was that they had a bunch of rookies working on the guns who did not really know how to diagnose problems. They were just guessing, and replacing parts. And not testing to see whether they had solved the problem or not.
Around 2006 I purchased a used early 1980s era M41 after test firing it with the original owner. I competed in action shooting with it for 3 years. I don't shoot it much anymore, but it has never malfunctioned, not even once (touch wood). I use SV ammo only.

In the past year or so, I have purchased five guns from a large volume online dealer. Three revolvers, two of them were Smiths and one was a Ruger single action. All three had to make trips back to the factory for initial quality or functional problems. Ruger still malfunctioned after two trips (the cylinder latch would not hold) and I had to fix it using aftermarket parts. Both Smiths came back from the factory with finish damage (little dings and scratches).
The other two guns I had bought online were S&W polymer framed auto pistols, and had absolutely no issues with either of them.
My guess is that the polymer guns are easier to manufacture since there are fewer parts to assemble, and some of them are molded to net shape or near net shape. Revolvers and other all-steel guns have alot more machine parts to assemble. Some of those parts are outsourced and apparently the quality plan is not adequate.
I have used online vendors to save money, but I would not do that again. I would not buy a S&W product unless I could thoroughly inspect it and even disassemble it. Otherwise, you are asking for trouble IMHO.
" I would not buy a S&W product unless I could thoroughly inspect it and even disassemble it."

I did purchase both of the 41's over the counter. I examined them to the degree that I could but of course they were new so the FFL wasn't about to let me take them to the range and run a couple of hundred rounds through them. I consider myself fortunate that the dealer gave me my money back. I don't think that is a too common thing. But, I have purchase quite a few guns from them and they want my continued business.

Thanks to them I am not still running back and forth to FedEx and calling SW every other day. I'm just pleased that it is over.

I'll stick with my other SW 22's, the 617, Victory and four others. They all work great............ as of now. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #105  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:20 PM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is online now
Member
Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 12,788
Likes: 4,758
Liked 13,499 Times in 5,210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackemmons View Post
So why doesn't SW put a " $11 Volquartsen extractor" in the 41 if that's the cure? After 168 years in business you would think they would be as smart as Volquartsen. I'm always amazed at how aftermarket folks take the time to get it right. Thanks chief38
Because the Volquartsen extractor is forged, higher quality and costs much more than the .25 cent stamped out part S&W used. I know that they are capable - just not willing. Just like car manufacturer's will save .10 on a part , but 10 cents x how ever many cars they make add to the profit.

Last edited by chief38; 02-18-2020 at 09:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 02-19-2020, 12:44 PM
Larry from Bend Larry from Bend is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC Montana
Posts: 854
Likes: 90
Liked 473 Times in 197 Posts
Default

Sorry for your troubles. I'm surprised that S&W didn't fix it correctly. Makes you wonder if they know what they're doing. Maybe just going thru the motions

I have all older Smiths except for a M&P22C that I got last year.

3 of us used to shoot golf balls for $$ with 22 pistols. If you were having a bad day, it could get expensive. 2 of us used Ruger semi-autos and 1 used a H-S. We were pretty well matched. In the mid-70s, I got a 41 (5 1/2") and practiced with it a lot. I started walking away with the $$. The other 2 guys then bought 41s (7 1/2"ers) trying to catch me.

The point of the story is that all 3 of the 41s were totally reliable. I don't remember a failure of any kind. We mostly used HV ammo but used anything really. We weren't aware of the "use SV" recommendations. I don't see any damage to the slide, chamber, etc...

After about 25 years I DID need to replace the recoil spring on mine, it started to fail to eject---- Only problem I've ever had. Many 1000s of rounds thru it.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 02-20-2020, 12:54 AM
350mag 350mag is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 79
Likes: 14
Liked 51 Times in 28 Posts
Default

My new PC 41 is more tolerant of different ammunition vs the early model 41. The older one demands standard and target speed ammunition. I would not give up on a 41. I have not tried CCI in my 41s. I know that CCI was not that good in my K 22s. They prefer Remington gold. The gold gives easier extraction than CCI in revolvers. SK Target ammunition is good in revolvers and auto. J frame kit guns give stiff extraction with CCI. I thought that was due to pressure in high speed. Keep trying other brands and grades but look for target velocity and or target grade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-04-2020, 06:15 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 2,271
Likes: 380
Liked 843 Times in 467 Posts
Default

This...
Model 41 maintenance

and this...
The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson

I agree with what Chuck has to say about S&W quality. Not sure I agree about his comments on their designs. I think they have some of the best designs on the market, especially revolvers. It isn't the design, it is the execution and their apparent disrespect for their customers.

Last edited by andyo5; 03-04-2020 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #109  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:04 PM
Dave686 Dave686 is offline
US Veteran
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 161
Likes: 23
Liked 110 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
It isn't the design, it is the execution and their apparent disrespect for their customers.
Exactly.

I don’t have a problem with their design, or even their quality. Every manufacturer has issues now and then. It is how they handle it with they are made aware of a problem. I always thought Smith & Wesson was the gold standard for customer service; sadly, not anymore.

I hate it when writers don’t put a date on their reviews. It appears that “The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson” hit piece was around 2011?
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 03-19-2020, 11:55 AM
Old Navy's Avatar
Old Navy Old Navy is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: State of Misery
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Default

I have never owned a 41 but always lusted after one, but price was for years a reason for me not buy. Then it was realization that I was never going to shoot competition so why spend the money. But now at 75 in July and dealing with aftermath of lymphatic cancer and no longer allowed to shoot rifles due to CHEMO port in my right chest. So I'm thinking maybe I'll buy one as I found 2 of the 12 round mags that came with my 2206 I bought new, and since I've got 3 rifles I'll be getting rid of I may tell the local gun shop I want one. I'll trade in the following a Scout Rifle in 7.62/308, Browning 222 A-bolt, Auto Ordnance M-1 30 Carbine and a CZ 512 in 22WMR even though I'll take a beating for the trade as I'm in the Ozark's only the 308 would bring or be a good resale gun. but such is life. The Ruger has only had 5 rounds at most fired, about 30 for the 222 Browning about 30 for the CZ 22 WMR, and about 300 or 400 hundred for the AO 30 Carbine that has only one FF due to a bad primer.
__________________
Cranky Old Retired Guy
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:02 AM
125JHP's Avatar
125JHP 125JHP is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: high snor'n desert
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 233
Liked 270 Times in 146 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Navy View Post
I have never owned a 41 but always lusted after one,...
... I'll take a beating for the trade as I'm in the Ozark's ....
Hold on Ol'Navy... I had a port installed too and had to stop shooting for about 1-2 years... then I had the port removed when all the chemo and other tests were pretty much over... after a short heal I can shoot rifle again. I've spent 8 or more solid hours shooting 308 at the range (of course after loosing 60 lbs i now use a decelerator pad).
Also.. don't you still live in a free state where you can sell your rifles in a private sale? I'd guess you have the background to spot a shady deal when you see one. Guns don't eat anything, so if it takes a little time to get your price, just be patient, the right guy will come along... and you may be giving away a few hundred dollars or lots of fun by trading them to a dealer. My advice is to find a nice gun to buy from an individual privately and to either keep or sell your rifles yourself. Also get that port removed as soon as you don't need it anymore...
good luck.

Last edited by 125JHP; 03-20-2020 at 09:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:15 AM
Old Navy's Avatar
Old Navy Old Navy is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: State of Misery
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 125JHP View Post
Hold on Ol'Navy... I had a port installed too and had to stop shooting for about 1-2 years... then I had the port removed when all the chemo and other tests were pretty much over... after a short heal I can shoot rifle again. I've spent 8 or more solid hours shooting 308 at the range (of course after loosing 60 lbs i now use a decelerator pad).
Also.. don't you still live in a free state where you can sell your rifles in a private sale? I'd guess you have the background to spot a shady deal when you see one. Guns don't eat anything, so if it takes a little time to get your price, just be patient, the right guy will come along... and you may be giving away a few hundred dollars or lots of fun by trading them to a dealer. My advice is to find a nice gun to buy from an individual privately and to either keep or sell your rifles yourself. Also get that port removed as soon as you don't need it anymore...
good luck.
Yes MO is a free state, but at 75 and with sever arthritis of hands now and all the other problems of old age I'll be lucky if I can shoot a 22 pistol, also I am stage 4 Non Hodgins Lymphoma that is very aggressive and had got into thigh bone but not in merrow. In other words I'm terminal but have no idea when it will start up again or if Covid-19 will get me.
__________________
Cranky Old Retired Guy
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:43 PM
125JHP's Avatar
125JHP 125JHP is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: high snor'n desert
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 233
Liked 270 Times in 146 Posts
Default

I was stage IV base of tongue and it was wrapped around my carotid artery- Dr. at Mayo Clinic said he gave me 2 week max or 15% chance of surviving the operation and that his advice was that I go home and hope I die in my sleep.... my answer was. 'you said 15%'... that was in 2010... so don't give up just yet.

Last edited by 125JHP; 03-20-2020 at 10:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #114  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:28 AM
Old Navy's Avatar
Old Navy Old Navy is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: State of Misery
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Thumbs up

Not given up on keeping cancer at bay, it's the arthritis of hands, shoulders, feet, knee's along with stannous of spine. It's 04:20 arthritis woke me up at 04:00 and now hands are hurting along with back so have a good day 125 JHP and may God keep you safe and enjoying the guns.
__________________
Cranky Old Retired Guy
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 03-21-2020, 11:55 AM
kleiss1 kleiss1 is online now
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rogers, AR.
Posts: 186
Likes: 71
Liked 88 Times in 45 Posts
Default

I make it up to Lake of the Ozark every couple weeks and may be interested in the CZ .22mag. Where about are you?
Is it the 452? I’m old and cranky too.

Last edited by kleiss1; 03-21-2020 at 11:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:19 PM
Old Navy's Avatar
Old Navy Old Navy is offline
Member
Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41......... Is the Model 41.........  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: State of Misery
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Default

No, it's a 512 and already gone locally. A 16.5" 22 Mag automatic rifle is a hot gun for poachers and/or poor trying to keep meat in the house year around.
__________________
Cranky Old Retired Guy
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2020
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)