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  #1  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:08 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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........ still the same or has the quality gone south.

At 76 I finally purchased "the best 22lr pistol ever built". A Model 41. Took it to the range and could not fire more than two consecutive rounds without having stovepipe after stovepipe. CCI Standard Velocity ammo.

So I took it back to the dealer and they replaced it. Yes... replaced it.

Took that one to the range and it was even worse. Failure to feeds, stovepipes, failure to fire, etc. I fought through 300+ rounds hoping it would "break in" but it got even worse. Buy the end, the magazines would not release unless I fought with them.

Off to SW it went and I got it back yesterday after they replaced the extractor, mag catch and safety. It says the fired it.

I fired 60+ rounds of CCI Standard Velocity from two different batches and with three different magazines and I had 3 stovepipes and 17 failures to fire. Some of these were because the empty was still in the chamber, the chamber was empty or the hammer would not drop when the trigger was pulled. Also, the slid NEVER stayed open on the last round. Therefore the dreaded dry fire.

I have 16 22lr handguns to include Rugers, Walthers, Berettas, Buckmarks and SW's(Victory, 622, M&P, 22A). Oh........ and did I mention a Taurus TX22 which has never faltered. Can't say that about the most expensive pistol I own(but wish I didn't).

So............. off to SW it went........... again.

So my question is, am I just unlucky or has the quality of these gone to $#@!? Thanks.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:24 PM
Dave.357 Dave.357 is offline
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Good thing you have lifetime warranty,
Sounds like you will need it.
Sorry about your bad luck.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:27 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave.357 View Post
Good thing you have lifetime warranty,
Sounds like you will need it.
Sorry about your bad luck.
Ya, but at 76 that lifetime warranty won't last long.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:48 PM
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Sorry for your troubles. Given your description it is unlikely to be an ammo problem, but next time you get it back from the factory I'd try other brands of standard velocity .22 just to be sure. Model 41s are "supposed" to like CCI SV but maybe yours doesn't. Please let us know what happens.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:56 PM
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Let somebody else try it out. I have the same problems with my Model 41 if I don't hold it firmly enough.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:02 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Sorry for your troubles. Given your description it is unlikely to be an ammo problem, but next time you get it back from the factory I'd try other brands of standard velocity .22 just to be sure. Model 41s are "supposed" to like CCI SV but maybe yours doesn't. Please let us know what happens.
You are correct. SW told me on two occasion that CCI Standard velocity was what they recommend. Thanks.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:06 PM
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Let somebody else try it out. I have the same problems with my Model 41 if I don't hold it firmly enough.
I will do that when I get it back. I have never had that issue with a handgun.

I did consciously give it a firm grip because I had thought that may be a problem, but.... who knows. Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:17 AM
Dave Lively Dave Lively is offline
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I bought my 41 in the mid nineties and with CCI standard velocity the failure rate is a few percent. Not nearly as bad as what you are describing but still annoying. It runs great with CCI Minimags. I have heard that 41s are designed for standard velocity and might get beat up with high velocity ammo but after trying a few fixes I gave up and just use Minimags. I would rather chance increased wear than live with an unreliable gun. I did buy a buffer.

The majority of my failures were the type where the slide went far enough back to eject the empty but not far enough to pick up the next round. So I ended up dry firing the gun at least once every couple of magazines. I also had the occasional stovepipe.

From what you are describing I do not think you are the problem.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:18 AM
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I have a new PC 41 and a early model 41. Both like SV and any quality target grade.


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Old 01-17-2020, 12:20 AM
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I have a 1st year issue M41. I am fortunate to have gotten a good one for its age. It still out shoots me. I have been shooting handgun alone over 50 years now let alone other shooting types. Still enjoy it every time I shoot. I would suggest a new spring set possibly would improve its re-liability. It can really make a difference in some M41's.

Last edited by Barrie; 01-17-2020 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:10 AM
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Did you try placing a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine at any point?

The reason I ask, mine did the short slide travel routine until I did the above procedure for a few magazines. Cleared the short slide travel and fail to eject immediately.

Even better, I found after three magazines treated with that one drop of oil, I no longer need to use oil at all and my Model 41 is now running 100% with basically any type or brand of .22 L.R. I care to try in it.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:57 AM
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FWIW; on my recently purchased 2019 PC model.

In retrospect seems like there was an increased level of cycling issues in the first 500 rounds or so - but like 5% - not 50%. After about 3000 rounds and 10 cleaning lube cycles, here's where I stand.

When I'm sighting-in using a rubber block (made for the purpose, and furnished by the range) on a table, I have much higher rate of cycle issues - like 30% to 40%. Holding the pistol on that block is way more firm and controlled than I could ever hold the pistol by hand (I shoot match - one handed). I'm not sure of the cause, and it runs opposite of conventional wisdom, maybe someone here can explain - but it's what I've experienced (could it be the slide spring weight is optimized for higher rates of recoil movement for one handed shooting - could that even matter?).

I have found 4 magazines that cycle ammunition with ~99% reliability. I have been through 2 additional magazines that would not feed reliably. 1 with FTE (extract and eject) about 80% of the time, the second fail to load (stove piping) the last round only 100% of the time. I'm going on my 3rd exchange to get to 5 reliable magazines for match shooting. I would not have believed that magazines would have such an impact on cycling performance, but was led to experiment by input from experts on bullseye forum - in my experience it does.

Separately, I've noticed and still experimenting with a small number of cycling issues after I've just cleaned the pistol, seems to be better if I'm more careful and thorough cleaning and lubing the chamber - but this is a minor issue compared to what you're experiencing.

I'm not sure the PC version is anything but cosmetic - I liked the grips and the scope rail...

Best of luck, and hoping you get resolution.

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Old 01-17-2020, 09:34 AM
mandkthomas mandkthomas is offline
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Here's a good relevant discussion with other's experience

Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:43 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lively View Post
I bought my 41 in the mid nineties and with CCI standard velocity the failure rate is a few percent. Not nearly as bad as what you are describing but still annoying. It runs great with CCI Minimags. I have heard that 41s are designed for standard velocity and might get beat up with high velocity ammo but after trying a few fixes I gave up and just use Minimags. I would rather chance increased wear than live with an unreliable gun. I did buy a buffer.

The majority of my failures were the type where the slide went far enough back to eject the empty but not far enough to pick up the next round. So I ended up dry firing the gun at least once every couple of magazines. I also had the occasional stovepipe.

From what you are describing I do not think you are the problem.
That is true. The manual says to stay away from the high powered ammo. I tried it in the first 41 they gave me but it did not make any difference. I also tried it in the one I just send back when I first got it but no difference with issues. I did not try it after it was returned from repair. When I called them after the repair they said it was "designed for standard velocity ammunition". Thanks
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Brown View Post
Did you try placing a drop of oil on the top round in the magazine at any point?

The reason I ask, mine did the short slide travel routine until I did the above procedure for a few magazines. Cleared the short slide travel and fail to eject immediately.

Even better, I found after three magazines treated with that one drop of oil, I no longer need to use oil at all and my Model 41 is now running 100% with basically any type or brand of .22 L.R. I care to try in it.
Did not lube it after it came back from repair. It looks like they added more lube although they tell you not to over lube it. They did replace the mag catch while they had it. Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:59 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mandkthomas View Post
FWIW; on my recently purchased 2019 PC model.

In retrospect seems like there was an increased level of cycling issues in the first 500 rounds or so - but like 5% - not 50%. After about 3000 rounds and 10 cleaning lube cycles, here's where I stand.

When I'm sighting-in using a rubber block (made for the purpose, and furnished by the range) on a table, I have much higher rate of cycle issues - like 30% to 40%. Holding the pistol on that block is way more firm and controlled than I could ever hold the pistol by hand (I shoot match - one handed). I'm not sure of the cause, and it runs opposite of conventional wisdom, maybe someone here can explain - but it's what I've experienced (could it be the slide spring weight is optimized for higher rates of recoil movement for one handed shooting - could that even matter?).

I have found 4 magazines that cycle ammunition with ~99% reliability. I have been through 2 additional magazines that would not feed reliably. 1 with FTE (extract and eject) about 80% of the time, the second fail to load (stove piping) the last round only 100% of the time. I'm going on my 3rd exchange to get to 5 reliable magazines for match shooting. I would not have believed that magazines would have such an impact on cycling performance, but was led to experiment by input from experts on bullseye forum - in my experience it does.

Separately, I've noticed and still experimenting with a small number of cycling issues after I've just cleaned the pistol, seems to be better if I'm more careful and thorough cleaning and lubing the chamber - but this is a minor issue compared to what you're experiencing.

I'm not sure the PC version is anything but cosmetic - I liked the grips and the scope rail...

Best of luck, and hoping you get resolution.
That also sounds like more issues than one should expect from a gun of this supposed quality. I was expecting it(them) to run like a top out of the box(s) for that price. If a Victory, 622, 22A and the like can do it, why shouldn't one expect the same from a gun that costs 3-4 times as much? Even the $250 Taurus TX22 didn't have ANY issues.

But then again, I have only sent back three guns in the past 5 years and they ALL were Smith and Wesson's. M&P Shield for jamming and a M&P 15-22 for key holing every round(200 of them). Upon investigation of the barrel, there was no rifling in the last 7' of the barrel. That seems like inexcusable quality control. The third one was the current 41. If you count the one I returned to the dealer it would make it four.

Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:01 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Originally Posted by mandkthomas View Post
Here's a good relevant discussion with other's experience

Shot my first bullseye shoot tonight--- Help-- Smith 41 failure to eject
Thank you.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:13 AM
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I have owned 3 different Mod 41's over the past 35 years. I also owned a High Standard Victor. All three of the Mod 41's were traded off, and I shot the High Standard the entire time. I liked the 41's but the reliability and the trigger of the Victor was always much better.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:31 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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I have owned 3 different Mod 41's over the past 35 years. I also owned a High Standard Victor. All three of the Mod 41's were traded off, and I shot the High Standard the entire time. I liked the 41's but the reliability and the trigger of the Victor was always much better.
That's what I don't understand. How did the 41 get the reputation of being the best 22lr pistol on the market for so many years? And what keeps the price up if they have issues?

Perhaps I am in a very small percentage but I don't think they have sold millions of them. Thanks.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:01 AM
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Iíve had older Model 41s for years and used to shoot them regularly with two friends who used newer model 41s. I donít recall ever having a malfunction with my old 41s (that couldnít be properly blamed on ammunition) and donít recall my friends complaining of function problems with their newer guns. Iím really at a loss to understand your difficulties, but it doesnít sound like they are either ammunition- or shooter-induced. One gun might be a lemon, but two in a row makes one scratch his head.

The 41ís match-quality reputation is well deserved, but I donít doubt that there are easier pistols to shoot, notably the old High Standards. The issue seems to be that a lot of shooters find the 41 trigger difficult to manage. Other than that, I have never heard much in the way of consistent complaints about functioning. Iíve heard there used to be a few smiths who were skilled at tuning 41 triggers, though Iíve never bothered the send one of my guns out for the work. But, thereís never been any doubt in my mind that 41s were/are very capable guns. Hope S&W will get your problems squared away and gets you a pistol that works as well as mine have.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:53 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Iíve had older Model 41s for years and used to shoot them regularly with two friends who used newer model 41s. I donít recall ever having a malfunction with my old 41s (that couldnít be properly blamed on ammunition) and donít recall my friends complaining of function problems with their newer guns. Iím really at a loss to understand your difficulties, but it doesnít sound like they are either ammunition- or shooter-induced. One gun might be a lemon, but two in a row makes one scratch his head.

The 41ís match-quality reputation is well deserved, but I donít doubt that there are easier pistols to shoot, notably the old High Standards. The issue seems to be that a lot of shooters find the 41 trigger difficult to manage. Other than that, I have never heard much in the way of consistent complaints about functioning. Iíve heard there used to be a few smiths who were skilled at tuning 41 triggers, though Iíve never bothered the send one of my guns out for the work. But, thereís never been any doubt in my mind that 41s were/are very capable guns. Hope S&W will get your problems squared away and gets you a pistol that works as well as mine have.
Thank you. That's were I'm hoping to get. If I live long enough.

"...., but two in a row makes one scratch his head." I guess have a dry scalp 'cause I'm still scratchin'.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:12 PM
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I think the only thing that all 41s have in common is that individual specimens have nothing in common. Every one I've ever seen has been a law unto itself regarding ammunition preference and little tweaks that might be needed to get it to run. I've had mine for 40+ years and I got lucky - it seems to shoot just about anything well and runs fine as long as I'm good about keeping it clean, especially around the breech.

While the 41 is unquestionably a fine firearm, the mantra that it's the finest .22 pistol ever built is really a bit of hyperbole. After many years of Bullseye competition with mine I upgraded to a Walther GSP Expert and there's honestly no comparison. The European target pistols (Walther, Pardini, Hammerli, et al.) are in a different league entirely, but of course also come to market at a price approximately double that of the 41, and I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:19 PM
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I think the only thing that all 41s have in common is that individual specimens have nothing in common. Every one I've ever seen has been a law unto itself regarding ammunition preference and little tweaks that might be needed to get it to run. I've had mine for 40+ years and I got lucky - it seems to shoot just about anything well and runs fine as long as I'm good about keeping it clean, especially around the breech.

While the 41 is unquestionably a fine firearm, the mantra that it's the finest .22 pistol ever built is really a bit of hyperbole. After many years of Bullseye competition with mine I upgraded to a Walther GSP Expert and there's honestly no comparison. The European target pistols (Walther, Pardini, Hammerli, et al.) are in a different league entirely, but of course also come to market at a price approximately double that of the 41, and I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
"I've had mine for 40+ years....." At 76 I don't think I'll have it quite that long. If I do, I'm sure I won't have a good sight picture. Jim
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:49 PM
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...I suspect that if S&W wanted to design a gun that would compete with them at that price point it could do so.
I suspect so too, but they’d probably not sell too many. Pricewise and in function, the 41 has always bridged the gap nicely between cheaper, less capable guns and the high-dollar European models.

I have no idea what a 41 trigger job cost/costs, but if the trigger were improved just a bit, I’m sure I couldn’t shoot any other gun any better. It’s not “bad” as it is - just not “easy.”

I agree 1000% with your comment about keeping the breech area clean, and particularly the extractor, it’s channel, and spring, as well.
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:20 PM
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My mid-60’s 41 shoots the CCI SV with out any problems. My cataract surgery’s were a great improvement on see the sights. I also have a 5 1/2” barrel with a Ultra Dot that is awesome.
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:44 PM
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When I read this thread and any other thread regarding problems on a Model 41, I see many inconsistencies with what is spoken not he forum and the printed documentation written by Smith&Wesson. We all need to be careful that the information we give is correct.

For example, we read on the forum only CCI Standard Velocity should be used so the Mod 41 is not beat. We read the Model 41 was designed only for CCI or other standard velocity ammo. And many other campfire tails. This not true, its not what Smith & Wesson says.

I own a new PC Mod 41. From the first day its only been given CCI Mini Mags and I have never had one type of problem whatsoever. It always goes BANG. I have in front of me the Smith & Wesson Owners manual for the Model 41. The reference number on the back page is
Rev:Mod41_101012. In the section of Ammunition it states use .22 Long Rifle of any type. Stamped on the barrel of my Mod 41 is .22 Long Rifle. The owners manual cautions to only use ammunition that meets SAAMI specs. The owners manual does go on to caution that some .22 ammunition has variations in primmer sensitivity varies between brands and types. Smith and Wesson recommends trying different brands/types to determine reliability of ignition. If failure to fire occurs, try other brands of ammunition. Use what shoots good in your Mod 41, and that well may be CCI Standard Velocity. Read your own owners manual or request one from S&W.

There we are, right from the mother ship, you can use ANY .22 long Rifle that meets SAAMI Specs *period* No gun will be destroyed or damaged. I concede its possible these error filled rumors may have been true on early Model 41ís, but not on new ones. What we need to know from the mother ship is; Has .22 LR SAAMI always been approved from Model 41 conception to present. Or we need to know where the change to any .22 long rifle SAMMI occurred, The serial number change point or year date. Then we can put to bed rumors and give valid info.

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Old 01-17-2020, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
Sorry for your troubles. Given your description it is unlikely to be an ammo problem, but next time you get it back from the factory I'd try other brands of standard velocity .22 just to be sure. Model 41s are "supposed" to like CCI SV but maybe yours doesn't. Please let us know what happens.
My 1990 M41 was at best *meh* with CCI SV and this was the 'old stuff' before the ammo shortage and before CCI's quality control went in the toilet. Now, it seems it's not much better than bulk, a lot from too much wax lube on the projectile and gunking up the chamber. I was using the old 'black bullet' in the 50rnd boxes and function was fine, but performance was just meh.

Then, a fellow 41 shooter told me to try the Wolf MT, made by SK and it made all the difference. That 41 really started to sing, both with better accuracy and smoother function. Bought 2 cases of the Wolf and never looked back. This was in 2002 or so. In hindsight, I believe that besides the better QC at SK (German manufacturing, ya know), I believe that the 'greasy kid stuff' lube they used just worked better in the tight tolerances of the M41 than the dry wax lube that CCI and most american manufactors use. All my .22s run better using it. When it runs out, I'll be getting the SK Standard Plus since that's what it was, in a different box, but the ctgs had the SK headstamp. The new Wolf made by Eley I've no experience with and cant comment on.

That *could* be one solution.

Other solutions that could hold promise are:
Running a brick of CCI high velocity through the pistol to burnish and wear in moving parts. Something like Mini Mags, but NOT the hyper velocity stuff.
Polishing the chamber and/or the feed ramp. Sometimes, these might still be rough from the factory. Close inspection with a bright light will help here. Chambers are tight enough as it is and the slightest roughness can really screw you up.

HTH, some.

Rob
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:50 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
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Back in my youth I shot bullseye in a league. I had High Standards and Rugers at various times, until I bought a 41. I would guess that it was made in the '60's or 70's, but its long gone so I can't check the serial number.

In any event, all the guys in my club shot standard velocity whatever, but my 41 didn't like them. When I switched to CCI Mini Mags it ran 100% and the accuracy was awesome.

In the early 90's I stopped competing because of kids, work schedule, etc. Ended up trading the 41 for a Blackhawk when I started handgun hunting.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:23 PM
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I agree with Wetdog. Run some hotter stuff to loosen it up a bit. Could just be the recoil spring is a little tight.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:28 AM
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Default My simple solution

Bought mine about 9/16 I had similar problems. I bought a set of Wolf recoil springs. I think 1lb lighter than stock fixed me up. Now the pistol is 100%.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:08 AM
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Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:21 PM
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There are VERY FEW Gun Company's left that produce quality the way we use to know it! S&W is certainly no exception and has (IMO) more than its share of QC issues!

The causes are complex, but IMO here are some major reasons:

*The Company has fallen prey to PC-ness.
*S&W has neglected the investment to PROPERLY train their "Gun-smiths".
*The work force pool lacks commitment to an employer.
*Final Inspection is horrific!
S&W is more concerned about $$ than quality. They would rather ship junk out the door and deal with it later than take the time trouble and effort to get it right the first time. It almost seems that PC guns are worse than their regular line! SAD!
*last but not least I blame the Company's CEO, President and Board of Directors for their dismal QC!!! At the end of the day - they are responsible!

I own more S&W's than any other brand - HOWEVER they are ALL vintage! UNFORTUNATELY (not bashing - just stating facts as I see them) they make nothing I'd actually spend my money on now. Apparently they now have a different Company model now-days.

Last edited by chief38; 01-18-2020 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:11 PM
Barrie Barrie is offline
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I agree with some of the Quality control being lax on their part. The Bottom line is all that seems to matter to most Corp's anymore. These are expensive handguns to own and the Value should be there at all times for what they are worth.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:55 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model 52 View Post
When I read this thread and any other thread regarding problems on a Model 41, I see many inconsistencies with what is spoken not he forum and the printed documentation written by Smith&Wesson. We all need to be careful that the information we give is correct.

For example, we read on the forum only CCI Standard Velocity should be used so the Mod 41 is not beat. We read the Model 41 was designed only for CCI or other standard velocity ammo. And many other campfire tails. This not true, its not what Smith & Wesson says.

I own a new PC Mod 41. From the first day its only been given CCI Mini Mags and I have never had one type of problem whatsoever. It always goes BANG. I have in front of me the Smith & Wesson Owners manual for the Model 41. The reference number on the back page is
Rev:Mod41_101012. In the section of Ammunition it states use .22 Long Rifle of any type. Stamped on the barrel of my Mod 41 is .22 Long Rifle. The owners manual cautions to only use ammunition that meets SAAMI specs. The owners manual does go on to caution that some .22 ammunition has variations in primmer sensitivity varies between brands and types. Smith and Wesson recommends trying different brands/types to determine reliability of ignition. If failure to fire occurs, try other brands of ammunition. Use what shoots good in your Mod 41, and that well may be CCI Standard Velocity. Read your own owners manual or request one from S&W.

There we are, right from the mother ship, you can use ANY .22 long Rifle that meets SAAMI Specs *period* No gun will be destroyed or damaged. I concede its possible these error filled rumors may have been true on early Model 41ís, but not on new ones. What we need to know from the mother ship is; Has .22 LR SAAMI always been approved from Model 41 conception to present. Or we need to know where the change to any .22 long rifle SAMMI occurred, The serial number change point or year date. Then we can put to bed rumors and give valid info.

Model 52 (putting on my Nomex Underware

I can partially agree with the SV thing but I shoot that and wanted to shoot it before I made the purchase. That is why I called SW BEFORE I purchase to be sure it liked it. I don't what the sonic boom thing. After I shot the first one I had and the second, I called them again to explain. They assured me the gun was "..designed to CCI SV".

As for supersonic ammo, I tried it (four different brands including CCI Mini Mags) in the first and again with the second and they all malfunctioned the same. I did not try it with the return from the repair shop. I did call SW and again said that CCI SV should work.

I do feel for the price of the gun, it should eat just about anything as my others do that are 20 to 50 percent of the cost.
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:59 PM
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Other solutions that could hold promise are:
Running a brick of CCI high velocity through the pistol to burnish and wear in moving parts. Something like Mini Mags, but NOT the hyper velocity stuff.
Polishing the chamber and/or the feed ramp. Sometimes, these might still be rough from the factory. Close inspection with a bright light will help here. Chambers are tight enough as it is and the slightest roughness can really screw you up.

HTH, some.

Rob[/QUOTE]

I some how believe that "other solutions" are the reason I paid the price. The gun should be finely tuned and polished before it gets in the consumers hands.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:02 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleiss1 View Post
I agree with Wetdog. Run some hotter stuff to loosen it up a bit. Could just be the recoil spring is a little tight.
In my letter to SW that I put in the return box(second time), I asked them to run a bunch of CCI SV through it and return it when it liked that that stuff.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backlighting View Post
Because of the constant feeding issues I sold my 41. IMO that gun is overrated and overpriced. I replaced it with a Ruger Mark lV for about a third of the 41's price. Couldn't be happier with the Ruger. It performs flawlessly.
I do have a Ruger Mark IV. I like it but not as well as my Victory and "hopefully" not as much as I going to like the 41.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
There are VERY FEW Gun Company's left that produce quality the way we use to know it! S&W is certainly no exception and has (IMO) more than its share of QC issues!

The causes are complex, but IMO here are some major reasons:

*The Company has fallen prey to PC-ness.
*S&W has neglected the investment to PROPERLY train their "Gun-smiths".
*The work force pool lacks commitment to an employer.
*Final Inspection is horrific!
S&W is more concerned about $$ than quality. They would rather ship junk out the door and deal with it later than take the time trouble and effort to get it right the first time. It almost seems that PC guns are worse than their regular line! SAD!
*last but not least I blame the Company's CEO, President and Board of Directors for their dismal QC!!! At the end of the day - they are responsible!

I own more S&W's than any other brand - HOWEVER they are ALL vintage! UNFORTUNATELY (not bashing - just stating facts as I see them) they make nothing I'd actually spend my money on now. Apparently they now have a different Company model now-days.
Sad but seemingly true. As I said in a previous post, in recent times I have sent three new guns back to the factory for repairs and they were all SW's. The good thing(yet) is that they are always cooperative.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:06 PM
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Wolff Gunsprings sells a calibration recoil spring set for the gun. I'll bet with a lighter spring you can get the standard vels to run.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:55 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog View Post
Wolff Gunsprings sells a calibration recoil spring set for the gun. I'll bet with a lighter spring you can get the standard vels to run.
Thanks. If they don't fix it I will consider that option.
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  #41  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:58 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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From all accounts by its owners the Model 41 is a nice target pistol, but it is also picky about ammo and how it is held. Swapping out ammo (including running some heavier stuff as mentioned above) and (even new) magazines and polishing the feed ramp is a better starting fix than tinkering with the springs.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOUSTON RICK View Post
From all accounts by its owners the Model 41 is a nice target pistol, but it is also picky about ammo and how it is held. Swapping out ammo (including running some heavier stuff as mentioned above) and (even new) magazines and polishing the feed ramp is a better starting fix than tinkering with the springs.
Thanks for the info.

As previously stated, I don't believe a gun with this reputation and cost should have to have the consumer polishing feed ramps and using ammo other than what the company says it will run unless they so desire.

As for mags, I have use the two that came with it, a new one I purchased, and the two from my SW622. All react the same.

Thanks again. We'll just have to see what happens upon it's return.
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2020, 07:58 PM
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Default Slide Lubricant?

Curious as to what type of lube you're using on your slide, also what is your shooting environment? If its cold and you're using grease rather than light oil, it could explain your FTF's and no slide lock-backs.

I've experience that myself with my plastic M&P's and was warned against using heavy oil in some target pistols (specifically not to use grease in a a SIG P210A). That said, I've got both a new and old M41's in which I exclusively shoot SV (SK+) ammo and have not experienced failures as you've described. I hope that you get it sorted out. -S2
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:10 PM
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Default I have owned three

It has been a while, but I have owned three model 41's. All were made before 1990, I just never checked dates back then. I just put one on lay-a-way. All three previous guns were ammo sensitive. No CCI Standard Velocity back then. I HAD to use Remington target ammo. Not sure why, but the Remington worked perfectly in all three of those guns. Shot good too. Guns all had to be kept pretty clean, especially the bolt face and chamber area.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:35 PM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedo2 View Post
Curious as to what type of lube you're using on your slide, also what is your shooting environment? If its cold and you're using grease rather than light oil, it could explain your FTF's and no slide lock-backs.

I've experience that myself with my plastic M&P's and was warned against using heavy oil in some target pistols (specifically not to use grease in a a SIG P210A). That said, I've got both a new and old M41's in which I exclusively shoot SV (SK+) ammo and have not experienced failures as you've described. I hope that you get it sorted out. -S2
Hi Speedo2 - I live in eastern Tennessee and we don't get what I would call cold weather like we did when I lived in Michigan.

The first time I shot the original and replacement 41's was indoors at Bud's Gun Shop and Range here in Sevierville, TN. After it came back from repair I shot it in at my house and the temperature was in the 60's.

As for lube, before I sent it to SW the first time I cleaned it and did a light coat of Hoppe's Lubricating Oil w/Weather Guard(whatever that is). I didn't lube it when I got it out for the box from the repair. I shot it just like they supposedly did.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:33 PM
kleiss1 kleiss1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarryH View Post
It has been a while, but I have owned three model 41's. All were made before 1990, I just never checked dates back then. I just put one on lay-a-way. All three previous guns were ammo sensitive. No CCI Standard Velocity back then. I HAD to use Remington target ammo. Not sure why, but the Remington worked perfectly in all three of those guns. Shot good too. Guns all had to be kept pretty clean, especially the bolt face and chamber area.
Mine would run good with the Remington target too. I think it had a green or blue label. 100 packs
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  #47  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:07 AM
n c rod n c rod is offline
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Blacked o s, when you tire of sending your 41 back and forth to S&W for repairs. David Sams or KC's Kustom Creations or several other competent gunsmiths known to others on this site can get it running like the racehorse it is supposed to be. S&W barely can assemble the line it sells much less service the troubled ones. Waste of time to send for free service in my experience. Sorry you got one of the few that does not work.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:21 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n c rod View Post
Blacked o s, when you tire of sending your 41 back and forth to S&W for repairs. David Sams or KC's Kustom Creations or several other competent gunsmiths known to others on this site can get it running like the racehorse it is supposed to be. S&W barely can assemble the line it sells much less service the troubled ones. Waste of time to send for free service in my experience. Sorry you got one of the few that does not work.
Thanks n c rod. If they can't fix it I won't be owning it. I've spent enough money and time on this. It will be the last "new" SW I purchase. Maybe I can graduate to Hi Point.
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  #49  
Old 01-20-2020, 10:08 AM
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I don't own a mod 41 but I used to build them during the mid 80's. Fitters are, or were back then, required to assemble a certain amount of guns. We were on "piece work", the more you made the more you got payed. I don't know how it is now. On the most part, fitters were very conscientious of building a quality product. Some were better than others. Building a gun that had problems functioning would cut into a fitters quantity of guns per day resulting in less pay. You were required to re-fit problem guns on your own time, some were worse than others, but on the whole, most guns went through with no problems. Regarding sending guns back to be reworked, the time I was working in "outside repair" we would get guns in from customers with an enclosed letter stating there concerns. We would do a total re-fit if necessary, we were not under pressure to do a required amount per day. One problem with building new guns or repair work from a customer is the fitter does NOT fire the guns after work is done, we were at the mercy of the people in the range for feedback on function. On rare occasions when fitting the Model 52's I would go into the range to observe the guns being machine rest fired if there was an unusual "problem gun". Otherwise only specific people were allowed in the testing range.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:30 AM
blackemmons blackemmons is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donk52 View Post
I don't own a mod 41 but I used to build them during the mid 80's. Fitters are, or were back then, required to assemble a certain amount of guns. We were on "piece work", the more you made the more you got payed. I don't know how it is now. On the most part, fitters were very conscientious of building a quality product. Some were better than others. Building a gun that had problems functioning would cut into a fitters quantity of guns per day resulting in less pay. You were required to re-fit problem guns on your own time, some were worse than others, but on the whole, most guns went through with no problems. Regarding sending guns back to be reworked, the time I was working in "outside repair" we would get guns in from customers with an enclosed letter stating there concerns. We would do a total re-fit if necessary, we were not under pressure to do a required amount per day. One problem with building new guns or repair work from a customer is the fitter does NOT fire the guns after work is done, we were at the mercy of the people in the range for feedback on function. On rare occasions when fitting the Model 52's I would go into the range to observe the guns being machine rest fired if there was an unusual "problem gun". Otherwise only specific people were allowed in the testing range.
That's for the insight! I, perhaps like many, thought the person doing the repair was the person test firing the gun. Only makes sense to me to see if "I" fixed the issue and not have a third party translated it for me.

This return has an "elevated" status, whatever that means. So hopefully I should return not too long from now. It is scheduled to be delivered today. Thanks again.
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