Ok guys, you really have helped me in the past. I just took delivery of a Model 39 made in the year I was born. But, I bought 2 more along the way!!!

Here is my quest, I bought a Model 39 that was an Illinois State Police issue. It has the badge number stamped on the frame. It is a serial number 108xxx and it has a SHORT extractor!!! Can any of you share some wisdom on this particular gun? Since it is a Model 39 (not a 39-2) with a short extractor, I am confused. Was this some type of pre-model change version? Was it a special order by the ISP? Please help.

I can help with part of your question. The number on the left side of your frame is an inventory number, not a badge number. It should read ILL. S.P., then a 3 or 4 digit number. Mine (39-nothing) was issued to me in the ISP academy in '68, inventory number 415. One of our members (ISP Capt.) may be able to help with the rest of your question.

Can you post a picture of the right side of the slide?. Im curious about which extractor is on your 39. It would make that part of your question easier to figure out. My guess is that you mean the typical extractor found on 39-2 pistols, not the short stubby extractor found on 2nd Gen 39/59 pistols.
Jim

The original slide may have been replaced for some reason.

OK, so you have a frame marked Model-39 with a Sn of 108XXX. So far
a standard 1968 gun. But with a newer type short ext. slide. From my
observations you have a transitional gun. I have/sold/seen several guns like yours with all kinds of combinations. They are truly unusual and out of the norm. S&W was making guns and getting them shipped so they could get paid.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

With the breakage problem associated with the original, long, one piece extractor on the original M-39s, ISP sent a number of guns back to S&W and the original one piece long extractor was replaced with a re-designed two piece extractor. The replacement two piece versions works perfectly and should not be confused with extractors on later variants (439, 5904, etc.).

...and the number on the left side of the frame is an ISP inventory number as PJO1425 outlined.
Mine is #236.

Is this gun a steel frame M 39?

Hello 2K7, was that extractor you speak of a very short lived remedy?
I have seen a few on late mod-39s in the 80K serial number range. Mike

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

I have a 539 with the short extractor

It is also possible that a previous owner put a 39-2 slide on your model 39.
The last 39 I bought came with a extra 39-2 slide that works perfectly on the 39 frame.

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Ken

Here is the picture. This gun was definitely personalized. The rear sight window has been widened, the lanyard loop filed off, and the trigger has been rounded.

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I just remembered a few other things about IL state police-issue Model 39s. The original barrel for one will have the inventory number engraved on it, visible through the ejection port. The inventory number will also be engraved on the base of the (two) issued magazines (figure 8 follower). I was talking to another retired trooper who went through the ISP academy in 1967, and he was issued a 39-2. Mine is a 39-nothing (serial #838xx), so I suspect that mine was turned in by a retiring trooper & re-issued to me.

Ok, I checked for property numbers on the barrel and magazine, none. As I was disassembling, I noticed that the slide notch on my older 39-none was somewhat rounded in shape, and the slide notch on the ISP 39-none is a polygon. The cut on the ISP Pistol is exactly like my 39-2. Given the lack of property number on the barrel and the shape of the notch, are we likely looking at a replaced slide and barrel?

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The original slide on my ISP 39-nothing (I bought it back from ISP when they went to the 439 in 1980) has a slide notch like your older (non ISP) slide. I presently have what I believe is a 39-2 slide on my ISP 39-nothing and it has a polygon slide notch. I bought the (what I believe is a 39-2 slide) at a gun show cuz the two piece (original slide) safety/decocker came apart after 50 years & it was easier for me to replace the slide than try to install a replacement safety/decocker. I have taken it to the range & it shoots just fine with the replacement slide. If your barrel & magazines don't have a matching inventory number engraved on them, they are likely not original to the pistol.

I have a model 39 with the short extractor serial is in the 81,000 range here is the thread on it.
Need some help on possible early Model 39

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Randy

Yes, the two piece extractor was very short remedy. You are correct, they replaced the long, one piece extractor that was prone to breakage. Mine is serial number 83,1XX with an inventory number of 236. Both of my mags are etched on the spine with the inventory number.

Note that the first part of this extractor extends all the way back to the safety body.

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I'm going to say that it is a Model 39-2 slide, based on the type of barrel bushing.

2K7 is correct, the inventory number is etched in the spine of an original (to the pistol) magazine, not the base of the magazine as I posted above.

You are probably OK, but ---

The part that requires fitting is the lever in the frame, so either replacing the slide safety lever or the entire slide requires checking the fit/function of that lever.

Also being picky: the 39-2 didn't exist in 1967 when that other trooper was in the academy. Perhaps that was a typo.

A friend who went through in the early 70's (and later ran the range at Pawnee) said he was issued a reworked 39 because of a shortage of new 39-2 pistols. He was promised he could have a new 39-2 when more arrived, but Homer Clark told him it was a good pistol, (and it was) so he kept it.

A lefty, he also had to use a right hand holster because of shortage of holsters until Homer found one for him.

Homer Clark definitely knows his way around a model 39 and is a great guy and excellent pistol shot. There are several guys who worked the range in the 60's, 70's and 80's who won many pistol competitions and could really shoot.

Many a youg cadet learned to shoot because of those guys.

I wonder if your friend was issued a cross draw Flap holster or the Safariland thumb break holsters. I think the ISP switched in about 1975-1976.

....and the M39 was carried in a flap holster at the 10 o’clock position, crossdraw for a right hand shooter with the muzzle pointing away from the body. Left hand shooters flap holster was also carried at the 10 o’clock position with the muzzle pointing toward the crotch for stronghand draw. The reason...when in formation, all holsters had to be on the same side of the body for uniformity.

llinois State Police adopted the Model 39 in 1967 after a two year evaluation process. The agency’s first order of 500 guns were Model 39s, but the followup order of 600 guns was Model 39-2s. However, the State Police objected to the two different extractors found in the different models. Therefore, the original order of Model 39s were returned to the factory and retrofitted with a unique interim coil spring loaded extractor. Other police agencies also were given the option of having their guns fitted with the interim extractor. Many of these reworks will have the serial number stamped under the rear sight. Illinois State Police Model 39 handguns are easy to identify because they are stamped on the left side of the frame “ ILL. S. P.” followed by a property number. In 1972, the Illinois State Police placed a third order for 500 of the Smith & Wesson Model 59.

Some points of clarification...

The ISP started transitioning to the 39 in 1967 and by 1968 every sworn was carrying the 39. I forget the exact number of sworn at that time but it was well over 500, closer to 1500. The 39-2 were not produced at that time. Therefore there were more than 500 39-nothings ordered.

The 2 piece long extractor was the fix of the original long extractor on the 39-nothing. The theory that the ISP didn't like 2 different extractors doesn't hold water. The 2 piece long extractor was done before the 39-2 was ever made. Additionally when the 39-2 was finally issued there were still a lot of 39-nothings in the field. The 2 piece long extractor and the 39-2 extractor are 2 different animals and neither interchange with the other.
That means there were still 2 different type extractors issued.
I was issued a used 39-nothing at the Academy. Most of my class got new 39-2. The re-order of new 39-2 was delayed so about 1/3 of my class got turn in re-issue 39-nothings or 39-2.

The ISP never issued the Model 59.

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183rd FBINA

Wow ok, that pretty much discounts everything I posted. I found that info on the net, and that I maybe helping with info, I should know better and I do apologize for any confusion. On the other hand, I do appreciate the corrections for my own knowledge.
Thanks !!
Keith

There are a lot of 'experts' posting on the internet and writing gun rags who don't have a clue what they're talking about. There's a well known gun writer who has written for various gun mags and wrote a book claiming the ISP issuing S&W 59. I wrote to him correcting his information. The ISP never issued the 59. He replied back that I was wrong, that he knew what he was correct because he knew the history. He continued other articles about the ISP history of the 39 and issued ammo that was nearly totally wrong. I don't know where he got his information but he sure didn't get it from talking to anyone from our main range or any of the old guys who were around back then.
There's not much being written about the 39 and the ISP anymore. Occasionally an article will refer to the chain of events. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. When they don't they usually are rehashing the erroneous information from the other gun writer who didn't get it right from the beginning. So the myth gets repeated as fact because some 'expert' wrote a book and for a gun rag.
The best source of info is from the guys who were there. PJO1425 is an excellent resource for that. I don't think I've ever met him but every post I've read of his he's a guy who knows his stuff. He hasn't steered anyone wrong yet that I've read.

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183rd FBINA

ispcapt, thanks for the kind words.

I wanted a ISP model 39 for my collection and I think I got lucky finding one with its original box; isp#123 serial 83333. This one has been carried and shows but I think it’s part of history and the wear and tear is just genuine provenance!

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Its kind of amazing the number of these ISPs that have their matching box.
Most people threw them in the rubbish bin.

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Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member

... and to add to the confusion, your M39 serial number is some 180 numbers later than mine, however your ISP property code number is 20 some numbers before mine.

Just goes to show they were shelved in no specific order and randomly had the property numbers stamped on.