Decided to start a thread on this and see if anybody had anymore feedback.
It seems I've lucked across a Fresno Sheriffs Office 150 Year Anniversary Edition 4566 in stainless with an integral rail.
I new it was kinda of a strange bird, but after getting some feedback from more knowledgeable people than me in another thread and not being able to find anything useful online at all about it decided to start a thread on it.
How many were made? Where they just dealer samples? The original box is missing a "plaque" that sits in a cut-out in the foam, what is this? Anybody have any more info would be appreciated w/o spending $150 bucks to have it lettered. All I've done is clean it up and put some KDS grips on it.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

That’s pretty neat and no, I have never heard of that. If that sucker were melonite (originally, I mean) then it would be worth even more but I suspect that an integral rail 4566 will definitely be sought after down the road if it isn’t already. Pretty cool!

That imo is a rare girl.... first I've seen of one... wouldent mind having one my self, THE ULTIMATE HOUSE GUN!

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This is the way....

Actually, it's the other way around. The integral railed versions were melonite and it being SS makes it rarer.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

That's what I'm hearing and there ain't nothing on the internet on it either except one guy that had on for sale because of a head-on collision he was in. No info at all?

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Okay, as an integral rail 4566 goes. However I suppose my point is that a factory melonite 3rd Gen is a very rare bird, likely more than 90% of all 3rd Gens are stainless.

Your gun does sound as if it’s extremely rare.

Hopefully, some more of the experts will chime in too. I'm just learning about this one myself.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

My notes that survived moving and retirement only show that a "test batch" was made in 2007. BEM serial prefix and 2007 fired casing date. No other info. Sorry!

One appeared in the classifieds here a dozen years ago. Guy was asking +$1K IIRC. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

A letter from SWHF is $100 unless you have other creds. Would answer your questions somewhat.

BTW, nice gun. I prefer stainless over the other.

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Sure you did

I asked about these on another board tonight. Ceptor 781 had one and sold it. He kindly provided pics of the product code off the box - 150224.

Serial number on his was BDX52XX. Perhaps s&w CS can provide you more info with the product code. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I had a crack at one a couple years ago and we just couldn’t get the deal done.

I did some research back when and don’t exactly recall but believe these were issued by the Dept. After S&W was becoming a limited resource to support these fine weapons Fresno moved on like so many other agencies. Ultimately sending them back under a new contract with S&W which were replaced by the mighty M&P. I assume many were allowed to buy them which is how the one I almost bought surfaced.

Rare can used rather subjectively, not sure it applies here as I don’t recall hearing production numbers although it’s likely not many were made.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

I spent an hour or so last night reading every post that the Forum search returned for the keyword "Fresno." (Yeah, I gotta get a life.)

All I could gather is that the Fresno Sheriff's Office switched from 4506 to 4566 pistols at some point. It wasn't clear whether the duty guns had the integral rail, but my hunch is that if they did, there would have been some photos and sales reported. My hunch is that the 150th Anniversary guns were special-order in limited quantity, just the way many agencies had anniversary editions of weapons that had been or were being carried at the time, and that the integral-rail example didn't memorialize an actual duty weapon. Instead, it was an attractive and desirable item to purchase.

According to Google, the Sheriff's Office was founded in 1856. That makes the 150th anniversary in 2006.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Looks like I'll have to get a letter on it.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

It would certainly be Interesting to see what the letter reveals should you take the plunge.

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

Yeah, considering what I paid for it the $100 bucks will be well worth it. I'll let y'all know what I find out, but I have to finish some other projects I'm "funding" right now.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

03hemi, that is a wicked cool 4566TSW. Color me jealous!!

I also recall another SS 4566TSW integral rail in the classifieds, though I believe it was more recent (in the last 5-8 years). We could be thinking of the same one, as I believe he was asking around $1k originally, though IIRC it sold for around $850. I don't think I have ever personally seen another SS model like this though. Very rare bird.

EXCELLENT memory, TercGen!

From 2015: 4566tsw milled integral rail

UltimaRatio described it as an evaluation sample. Good photos, including one of the box label that has an SKU ending in the letter U. I don't know what that means, but I have a hunch it supports the contention that this was a one-off or very small batch.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Hey Terc, appreciate that. The only other one I was able to find on line was a guy selling one on AR-15, I believe, because he had been in a head on collision and needed the money.
My case is noted Fresno, etc., but has a rectangular cut-out beside the mags as if to hold a plaque or a display card or something?
I'll get a photo of the box tonight and post some pictures.
All I did to mine was clean it up and put some new grips on it, but it had been shot to snot because it was filthy when I got it.
I'll retire it because I have so many 45's already.
Oh yeah, two things to note that are different:
1. The recoil spring guide rod is steel and not aluminum, same configuration though and
2. It has what looks like factory installed tritium night sites, same type sites as the others, just lamped. (still lowly lit).

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

I worked for the Tulare Police Department in Tulare County, the county just south of Fresno County. I can tell you from personal knowledge and observation that the Fresno SO did issue the Stainless 4566 with integral rail. I saw a lot of deputies carrying them. As I recall, they still had some 4506's in the field after they began issuing the 4566. I don't know how long that lasted. They also issued the Chief Special .45 to some deputies. There may have been others I'm not aware of, but i wouldn't be surprised if the 4516 was also among them, or maybe the 4513.

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Dave Frost

FWIW, during the last 2-3 years of LE production for 3rd gen's, when agencies ordered full-size duty weapons they were often offered the option of having them produced with riveted or integral rails, at no price difference.

I only found this out when talking with the guy who was responsible for placing our orders for our assorted TSW's back then. While our first shipment of 4566TSW's had been with the standard riveted rails, when our next order went in the factory asked him if we wanted the guns made with the integral frame rails, for the same price. (We could've ordered them with the Melonite hardening treatment, too, for a slight added cost per unit.)

He said he'd told them to stay with the riveted rails for our next batch, as he didn't want anyone who had received the earlier riveted rail guns to feel jealous of anyone getting integral railed guns. Really? I asked him why the hell he'd not discussed it with anyone else, and reminded him that the integral railed guns couldn't suffer the same sort of impact damage the riveted rail guns occasionally experienced. We had a few guns with broken rails from being dropped. Sigh.

If that second half shipment of 4566TSW's had been received with the integral machined rail, I might've been tempted to buy one as a former duty weapon when that was offered to us as the TSW's were removed from service (replaced with plastic). Just because.

I don't see the integral railed guns as being especially rare, because all 3 calibers of the full-sized TSW's were being offered to agencies during the last few years of TSW production. Granted, this was after the 3rd gen's had been dropped from the commercial catalog, so the TSW's being produced that way had primarily been for LE agency orders. Of course, the way S&W had typically done production runs, some extra units were often made when special orders were done, which ended up being made available for individual officer sales, agency 'last minute extras' ... and the occasional release of overruns guns through one of the company's major vendors.

The Melonite guns were usually the result of special orders for state, local or fed agency orders, or a PC project, or guns previously shipped for international sales and then imported back into the US (think Modelo Militar or Mexican Special Forces 5906, etc).

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Don't be too hard on your Purchasing Agent, Fastbolt.

He may not understand pistol maintenance as well as you, but he certainly seems to understand people.

I've had big, burly, tattooed H-D mechanics get all pouty because somebody else got a new shop tool or a coveted assignment.

Now maybe folks are are little more sensitive back here in Missouri than they are in Cali, but I was watching the SOTU the other night and I swear I saw a California resident throw a tantrum when things didn't go her way.

I guess people are the same all over.

John

You'd think there'd be some like this on line if they were so plentiful, but I'll be damned if I can find any in all stainless with the integral rail. They're plenty of the melanite, lots of 40TSW integral railed, but no 45TSW. Maybe they just don't come up for sale and that's the reason for the scarcity?

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Thanks for that information, Dave!

This is turning into one of the most interesting Smith 45ACP threads I've read lately. I had no idea that there were so many integral rail guns produced for LE agencies, as Fastbolt adds to this discussion, or that in addition to the 45ACP and 40S&W integral rail models, there also were editions in 9mm as well.

Like 03Hemi, I'm surprised that we haven't seen more of any or all of these for sale, or purchased and bragged on, here on this site. Just another very unexpected and interesting aspect to this hobby we all share.

Thanks guys, for adding to the knowledge base on these!

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Can anybody show me a 45TSW integrated rail in stainless? Tons of 40's. A lot in Melanite, but no 45's? It is a conundrum? The mystery continues. lol
I believe what Fastbolt was seeing in the field was the 40cal because they're so many.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

I retired from Shawnee County, KS after 30 years. I have an almost new model 4506, with one range trip (50 rounds). We had just changed from model 645 to model 4506, and they give us our duty weapon upon retirement. None of my generation three pistols have a rail. It would have been nice if our new pistols had the agency name on them, however. I really like the pistol you have, hang on to it. It is a beautiful pistol. I have never seen one either.

Thanks KS, and for your service too. I will, I don't sell any of my guns anymore. Really looking forward to see how this unfolds myself.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

This may be of interest. Hopefully the link works.


https://media.yourcentralvalley.com/...817_ver1.0.pdf

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USS ZELLARS
DD-777

Thanks 03Fatboy, that certainly confirms a few things. Why it has night sites and they're only 675 (in working cond.) in the Fresno's armory at the time, now we know why we never see them around with that few in existence. Sure wish I could find that plaque, badge, plate or whatever it is that goes in the box now?
I printed that to put with the gun too.
Appreciate that, great stuff!

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Yeah, I saw some of the integral railed 4006TSW's, but those were in the hands of the CHP officers using our range.

My own former agency ran more to .45's, with upwards of 70% of the line staff submitting a request for 4566TSW's when our initial staff survey and orders were being made, with the remaining numbers being 4006TSW's. The 4006TSW was the 'default' issued weapon if somebody didn't request a 4566TSW. Then, of course, as more people were seeing the 4566TSW's in holsters, people issued the 4006TSW's suddenly wanted to trade them for 4566TSW's, so the .45's became scarce and desirable weapons between subsequent orders.

It flipped the other way as the TSW's were being replaced with issued plastic (M&P's), as well as with a couple other makes/models as they were approved for optional personal purchase. It started with people forming lines to get M&P 45's, and with a lot of M&P 40's sitting idle in inventory, but then more people started requesting M&P 9's. We'd originally ordered a small amount of the M&P 9's (against them being needed for any recoil sensitive shooters). Suddenly, people were discovering the easier handling qualities of the 9's, though, and the demand kicked up.

Many of the former .45 enthusiasts started wanting to go to 9's, too. Even some longtime .45 aficionados on the training staff were wanting to replace their .45's with 9's. Last I heard, the ongoing orders being placed for additional new weapons were only for M&P 9 Compact 2.0's (first orders of M&P 9's were the slightly larger 'original' M&P 9's).

Still a lot of M&P 45's in-service, though.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Thanks Fastbolt, for your service too. I love hearing these "inside" stories as well, great info.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Sent you a PM.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I'm still sitting here stunned that any officer would choose a 40 or 9 over a 45!

(Tongue firmly in cheek Fastbolt) Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

My impression - from observing who got what and why - was that the .40's ended up being issued to the average guy/gal who weren't exactly gun enthusiasts and who didn't express a preference for whatever they were issued.

There was also that group of folks who liked the Glock .40's, once the option was approved for personally-owned duty weapons. The Glocks I mostly saw being bought for uniform use were the G23 & G35, and the G27 was a popular off-duty choice.

When the M&P's were being handed out I was retired, but still serving as a reserve. When I went to get a new weapon the guy issuing them (an old friend) told me to pick whatever I wanted. I asked about inventory and he said that the 9's and .45's were hot choices and had waiting lines, but he had plenty of .40's stacked up. He told me to take a .45, if I wanted (being a .45 shooter, as well as the senior member on the instructor and armorer staff).

I told him to just hand me a .40 off the top of the nearest stack, because (1) I didn't care what caliber I carried; (2) I could shoot and run any of them well (and had carried all 3 calibers on & off-duty before retirement); and (3) I didn't want to take a weapon, as a lowly reserve, that someone among the regular staff was eagerly hoping to get issued to them.

I took that M&P 40 (which was oddly bone dry when I inspected it, versus being saturated with shipping oil like in days past) out to the shooting lines and ran a mix of current duty & 'range bin' ammo through it. It ran like a top and surprisingly was a tack-driver, especially with the 180gr HST we were transitioning to at that time (because it was the cheapest JHP, and readily available for immediate delivery by the pallet load ).

That was a rather nice duty weapon. The replaceable backstrap/palm swell inserts made it easy to fit to anyone's hand, and the steel sub-chassis in the frame (and grip angle) made it a very easy recoiling .40 to shoot. I could understand why the CHP chose it to replace their 4006TSW's.

Of course, a while later I handled and tried out one of the M&P 9 Compact 2.0's, and I decided it would be what I'd choose if I were still working. Great grip feel, balance, and the 2.0's stock trigger made it feel like I could finely cut my initials in the targets. Not bad. Made shooting at clothespins feel like cheating. Having a 15rd mag in the weapon, and 1-each of the 15 & 17rd mags on the belt (the mags came that way with that SKU number), it offered a sufficient duty load out for uniform or plainclothes use.

Time moves on ... Sigh ...

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I have a friend that is a retired Fresno Sheriff's deputy.. I n the 90's and after he was the rangemaster for the department. They issued 4506's in the 90's in;early 2000's they switched to the 4566. The one I have serial# FS03XX was issued to a patrol deputy on 06/26/07. According to the information I have they issued approx 800 guns all with the FSO serial. Serial FSO 001 was issued to the Sheriff. Mine is in the high 300 range. Mine was purchased by the patrol deputy on 04/12/14 and he sold it some time later. Fresno Sheriff has approx 950 sworn. The 4506's were marked on the right side of the frame 'FRESNO SHERIFF' I have a couple of them. He was able to research mine and found that they were issued to court deputies , both showed little wear. Fresno now issues MP 45. I lived in Fresno County for about 4 years and still know a couple of deputies working there.

Small world, huh, Aegis?

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

03hemi, Does your SN# start with FSD ? Hard to see.

Aegis mentions FSO serial#s & the thread vigil617 referenced has a BEM serial# 4566TSW.

Must have been several batches of them made?

.

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Waiting for the break of day

I feel like my time machine is now that much more important.

I think it's likely that the Fresno County Sheriff's Office guns would have had the "FSO" prefix. I don't know about other states, but in North Carolina, the term is "Sheriff's Office" in each county, not "Sheriff's Department." I was once told by one of my attorney bosses that the reason had to do with the organizations being constitutionally mandated as "offices of the Sheriff." Municipalities have police "departments" here.

EDITED TO ADD: They're constitutionally mandated, and the Office of Sheriff is the oldest county office in the state, dating to 1662.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

When in the Academy, I was asked (under duress, lol) what I agency I was employed by.

I made the mistake (it only took once) of replying I worked "for the Sheriff's DEPARTMENT".

Yep.....only once.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

All serials are FSO Fresno Sheriffs Office.....,. The 4506's had standard serial sequence..

It is possible that a different serial sequence was an over run so a regular serial number was assigned. One of my Fresno 4506's was never delivered to the Sheriff, I found it with a distributor in Florida. S&W conformed it never went to Fresno Sheriff, this one is new in box.The 4506used standard serial numbers.
The run of 4566's was the last order the ringmaster placed with S&W. The RFP link in earlier posts was done by him. He has serial # 002. He also served as their armorer .He retired right after the guns were delivered.

I worked for LASD Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept. I don't know the history as to when/why they changed from Office to department..I graduated in 1976 and until I retired it was LASD..

I remember back in the early 80's, when I was talking to someone from LASD at a street/prison gang class. I asked him about his agency being a department versus an office. He said the sheriff had once said that the actual Office of the sheriff was where he sat behind his desk, and the rest was his dept. Might've been so.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Here in Pa.

I think it has a lot to do with the "Sheriff" being an independent elected "office". Like a Governor or Mayor

Police "Departments" are one of many departments within the local government (City,Borough or Twp) with appointed Dept heads aka a Chief.


Here in the Burgh area we also have "County Police".....just "County Police".

I moved to Idaho a couple of years ago and here it's Sheriff's Office.. The unusual thing here is jurisdiction is local for the agency you work for, Ca we had statewide authority. Here you have to get permission from the Sheriff to work outside your city..

There's a list on Wikipedia of all the Sheriff entities in California, and while most are Sheriff's Offices, there are a number of them identified as Departments. Sorry for the thread drift here. What's interesting is the one in Fresno County on that particular list says Sheriff's Department, yet the posters in this thread who are from that area confirm it's Sheriff's Office.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Are you saying Wikipedia has wrong information? I'm shocked, shocked I say!

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I was the LE manager for the western region for a number of years and worked with Fresno County when they went from the 645s to the 4506s. In fact, when the state of kalyfornya went to the infamous "Not unsafe gun List" Fresno and LAPD were one of the few agencies out west still carrying those pistols so S&W had to pay $$ to keep those guns on that list. They loved those pistols and the only issue was that you definitely didn't want to fall out of a boat with one in your holster. You were going to the bottom.
After I retired, I heard through the guy that replaced me, they were going to the 4566 TSW with the machined light rail. In fact, I ended up buying one of his sample pistols that was one of the original T&E guns sent to the Sheriff's Office. I still have that pistol and it is a real shooter. I knew nothing about the commemorative model but other than the sheriff's star on the slide the pistols look the same. I have not lettered this gun yet so don't know more about them than that.

I'm still amazed that there was a whole agency's worth of 4566TSW's with the integral rail, and yet so few have escaped into the wild. The number of sworn officers in the FCSO is roughly the same as in the West Virginia State Police at the time that agency was using the Melonited version of the gun, and as we know, those pistols do show up from time to time. Yet with these FCSO unicorns, we have confirmed the OP's commemorative, the salesman's sample that UltimaRatio owned and took photos of before selling, and now Taj's unmarked gun that was a T&E model.

Where are all those several hundred other issued guns, plus the rest of the commemorative guns that were made? It's not possible, is it, that these guns are still in inventory somewhere packed up in a big shipping crate a la Indiana Jones' Lost Ark? Was the next pistol the FCSO went to after the 4566TSW also a Smith model, which I assume would have involved the agency returning the TSW's to the mothership for the credit involved against the new ones? (The FCSO memo in 03Fatboy's post #27 makes a strong case for transitioning to the M&P45).

A riddle wrapped up in a mystery inside an enigma!

And in the interest of full disclosure, the reason I am so interested in knowing about these is because one of the duty guns would make a wonderful "salt" to the "pepper" of my WVSP M4566TSW!

EDITED TO ADD: Internet search shows that the FCSO did indeed transition to the M&P platform in 2013 after having used the 4566TSW since 2007.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Hey guys, I'm only on here during the week at work. lol
Mine has the serial number FSD0316 as noted on the blown up image I've provided.
I forgot to get an image of the box over the weekend and will tonight, but I'm still trying to find out what goes in the original box as some type of plaque or something.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist