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  #1  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:41 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Default Cracked the Frame on my 4006TSW CHP

Well my favorite damn gun bit the dust this past Sunday... after 8K+ rounds of faithful service. Thought this pistol would out last me for sure. Final watch for CHP pistol E2471 you will be missed.
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Cracked the Frame on my 4006TSW CHP-57888c81-fef2-42d7-bfd2-4a72619d1c02-jpg   Cracked the Frame on my 4006TSW CHP-e544cfb0-9203-4b76-a674-30d9eda2a213-jpg  
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:46 PM
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Man that sucks!

Be honest...were you abusing it? Could it have been cracked when you bought it, you just didn't notice?
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:49 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Man that sucks!

Be honest...were you abusing it? Could it have been cracked when you bought it, you just didn't notice?
Nope I babied this pistol, I blame the ammo it was some hot agulia ammo.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:12 PM
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Are you referring to that little crack on the back of the rail? I strongly suspect that could be repaired.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:19 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Are you referring to that little crack on the back of the rail? I strongly suspect that could be repaired.
Itís not really little, I wish I had a better picture of the back, itís almost cut clean through the locking surface. It would be hard to repair and I wouldnít trust it if I did repair it. Iím just going to buy another one.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:31 PM
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Fortunately the 4006’s are pretty inexpensive. There are folks who can do micro welding that could make that good as new though. You might ask S&W. Those guns should be covered by the lifetime warranty. They have been making a few small batches of these guns for LE agencies until recently. They may have a frame or two lying around.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:55 PM
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Fortunately the 4006ís are pretty inexpensive. There are folks who can do micro welding that could make that good as new though. You might ask S&W. Those guns should be covered by the lifetime warranty. They have been making a few small batches of these guns for LE agencies until recently. They may have a frame or two lying around.
You think itís worth giving them a call? Do they usually help you guys out like that?
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:02 PM
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It’s free to call and ask. Don’t mention it being a CHP gun. Supposedly the warranty applies to original owner. However it depends on who you talk to whether that counts.
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Old 02-11-2020, 09:18 PM
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Best thing to do is probably send BMCM a PM and seek his advice.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:46 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is offline
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Those 40's just shoot themselves apart (Old criticism of 40 calibers), the good news is that there are more 40s around than anything else. Sorry for your loss.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:55 PM
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Aguila 180 fmjs cracked the frame? Must have been an internal flaw in the frame.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
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Best thing to do is probably send BMCM a PM and seek his advice.
I agree, he has performed a miracle or two in his time with our favorite guns ( 3rd Gens)

That's not so many rounds that would cause that to happen. Almost brought a tear to my eye........
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:40 PM
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CHP 4006 pistols are still available and reasonably priced on GB. Pick up another one and fire standard load 40S&W ammo, not the supped-up +p+ stuff. Be thankful you cracked a readily replaceable 4006 and not a 1006, 1076, 5967, or other hideously expensive or nigh impossible to find model. Strip the old pistol for every part and hang the cracked frame on the wall in your workshop as a reminder to never hot load a S&W vintage auto.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
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Nope I babied this pistol, I blame the ammo it was some hot agulia ammo.
That's not even super hot ammo in my experience. Unlucky!
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
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Best thing to do is probably send BMCM a PM and seek his advice.
What epj said!
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Old 02-12-2020, 03:14 AM
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Oh my That does not look good. Not good at all.

I can't really discern the full extent of the damage in the second pic but looking at the first image, the angle of the visible crack appears to mirror the angle of the barrel camming lug face on that side.

Can we see an image of that camming lug from above and from the inside looking aft at the cam surface?

How many rounds fired on the installed recoil spring when you discovered this?

Was the recoil spring the factory 895240000 part or aftermarket?

Cheers
Bill
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Old 02-12-2020, 05:50 AM
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Two words...Liquid Steel.
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:48 AM
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I appreciate everyoneís kind words! Iím already bidding on a new replacement. Here is a better pic of the extent on the damage.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:19 AM
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That's not good. I wouldn't think twice about calling the Mother Ship. I'd just call.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:30 AM
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Yeah, that's not a good crack, (not that any are, in gun frames). Curious to see what Bill has to say, but the wall hanging idea is a good one I'd say. Makes me want to put new recoil springs in all my 3rd's.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:52 AM
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Call S&W and see what they say about it.

I am betting that is a factory defect. Micro cracks/defects in the original casting process.

Last edited by rosewood; 02-12-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:52 AM
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Springs were Wolff extra power with 3K on it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
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Springs were Wolff extra power with 3K on it.
If S&W does have you send it in, I would install everything back to factory if you have it.

Rosewood
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:39 AM
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Weld it. Heli-arc by someone who knows what their doing. I actually had a mainspring from a flintlock pistol welded after searching for one, still working. What do you have to lose?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:44 AM
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S&W is good about covering their guns under warranty, I'd give em a call too.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:47 AM
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Weld it. Heli-arc by someone who knows what their doing. What do you have to lose?
Void the warranty.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:48 AM
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Someone please explain to me why you would want to spend the money on a repair before even giving S&W the chance to warranty it? A warranty is free and will continue if you give them a chance. If they refuse, then look into other options.

Rosewood
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:51 AM
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The potential problem with the warranty is that it extends to the original purchaser. The gun being marked CHP, screams that the current owner is not the original purchaser. That said, from what I’ve read here and my own experience, it depends on who you talk to in C S the phase of the moon, day of the week, etc as to the response you’ll get.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:23 AM
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The potential problem with the warranty is that it extends to the original purchaser. The gun being marked CHP, screams that the currthats ent owner is not the original purchaser. That said, from what Iíve read here and my own experience, it depends on who you talk to in C S the phase of the moon, day of the week, etc as to the response youíll get.
Thatís what I was thinking, as soon as you read the serial # they are going to go ďhuh thatís odd did you get that new?Ē
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:28 AM
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I appreciate everyoneís kind words! Iím already bidding on a new replacement. Here is a better pic of the extent on the damage.
Its not worth your health or well being to repair this and depend on it not to have a catastrophic failure. Unlikely, but there is the chance the frame could crack during firing that the slide could derail and come back at your face. I've had a FN49 detonate out of battery. Long background story on that one, but there's about three seconds of my life I can't account for due to being smacked by the concussion of an 8mm mauser round exploding near my head. Bottom line is that you're doing the right thing replacing it rather than patching it. Part it out but if you leave the damaged pistol in one piece, make sure you tag it that its unsafe to fire for whomever may find it perhaps after you pass on. Right now its like an old sea mine they find time to time bobbing in the ocean, might go off, might not.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:25 PM
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That’s what I was thinking, as soon as you read the serial # they are going to go “huh that’s odd did you get that new?”
Sent in my 1076 a few years back that I believe was a FBI model. They fixed it and didn't ask questions. I have several others that I have sent in and never have they came back and denied the work.

Now, I have 2 at the mothership right now, I may be eating my words soon. Hopefully you guys will be instead of me though....

At least worth a call regardless.

You must also consider that the problem is a serious safety issue and could very well be a factory defect. Some manufactures will fix it even if out of warranty depending on the failure for liability reasons. Mossberg replaced a barrel free of charge on my 935 because the vent rib was not straight on the barrel. Bought it used at a pawn shop and was years past the 2 year warranty. It never hurts to ask. I called Georgia Boot once to buy new inserts to my boots, the ones in them had worn out. They shipped me new inserts for free. I was willing to pay for them. The worst they can tell you is no.

Rosewood

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Old 02-12-2020, 12:30 PM
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Thatís what I was thinking, as soon as you read the serial # they are going to go ďhuh thatís odd did you get that new?Ē
Just tell Ďem your name is Francis Poncherello and there will be no further questions.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:00 PM
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The good news is that the material is stainless so it is fixable if you can find a competent person with TIG welding skills.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:16 PM
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I HAVE SEEN THIS CRACK ON S&W 3 GEN BEFORE, 9MM AND 40's( YES AND SIGS, BERETTAS AND GLOCKS) . EACH TIME THE CULPRIT WAS THE RECOIL SPRING NEVER BEING REPLACED. THE RECOIL SPRING NEEDS TO BE REPLACED PERIODICALLY. THE HIGHER PRESSURE THE CARTRIDGE THE MORE FREQUENT THE REPLACEMENT. JP

P.S. I'M NOT SAYING THE NEW OWNER DIDN'T CHANGE THE SPRING IN A TIMELY MANNER. BUT BEING USED THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL HOW IT WAS DONE BEFORE HE BOUGHT IT. THE DAMAGE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE EARLY ON.

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Old 02-12-2020, 01:35 PM
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"Captain Dan Matthews" might work better.

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Just tell Ďem your name is Francis Poncherello and there will be no further questions.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
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Aguila 180 fmjs cracked the frame? Must have been an internal flaw in the frame.
I have to agree. This bombshell was ticking the moment it left the factory.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:14 PM
mscampbell2734 mscampbell2734 is offline
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You guys have to remember early, and the 4006 counts as early, 40 cals were largely rebarreled 9mms. HPs, 4006, Sig 226 in 40, Beretta 96, all were based on 9mms.

This was a common concern when these guns first came out. Browning redesigned the HP with a third locking lug and recontoured frame, why do you think they switched from forged to cast frames? Beretta had to reinforce the 96 slide to avoid cracks.

The fact this crack is right where the barrel cams down just tells me it's a wear and tear issue from firing a round the frame was not designed to handle.
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  #38  
Old 02-12-2020, 02:48 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
I have to agree. This bombshell was ticking the moment it left the factory.
Maybe so I thought it was the ammo I would like to see what they say I will call them later this week and let you all know what they says regardless itís a shame I loved that gun and itís a shame it had to give it up.
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  #39  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:25 PM
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CALREB CALREB is offline
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Another thing is there is no way to estimate how many rounds are through a particular gun unless you know the officer it was issued to. Granted most officers don't shoot that much, but some shoot a lot, and why not shoot your issued gun, if it breaks it will be repaired or replaced FREE.
The gun could have been reissued and recycled through the academy, where it would have been shot a lot we figured 3000-3500 rds in the academy. If remediation or a recruit recycle way more. Person quits or goes to another agency and that gun will be reissued to another recruit.

And the biggest drawback, the real truth, that any armorer or gunsmith for a large agency issuing any 40 cal handguns will tell you, They just don't hold up, more failures/ breakages than all other calibers combined. Any alloy frame 40 , forget it. Qual only and carry . The only things you can do is keep them clean, well lubed and replace the recoils spring often every 2500 rounds maybe more if shooting +p or some high velocity ammo.

Same should be adhered to for all 3rd gen shorter ,45s- 4566/4516/ and alloy frames.

You know some CHP officer may want to buy it only to go in his/her shadow box. Some guys make those guns inoperable anyway. I know if that was my issued gun I would pay a couple hundred for it for that purpose. Instead of ruining my gun or risking it in a shadow box. Just a thought.At 350 or so at least you would recoup some of the original cost. I would be shocked if S/W can or will repair it. Best would be a 40 M/P oh boy...but you never know. Good luck
Good luck ..

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  #40  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:09 PM
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I just checked mine to be sure it wasn’t cracked, I’m good!
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  #41  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:33 PM
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The gun the OP is talking about is a CHP 4006TSW. Which according to the SCSW was made in 2006-07. I'm not sure that it qualifies as an early gun. If it was an early 4006 (1990-1999), then that would be "early."

There's what appears to be a typo on page 370, where it lists 4006TSW production as 2000-2001. Which is beside the point here.

I'm far from a .40 3rd Gen expert, but I thought that the early single stack, like the 4013 were built on .45 frames, and the later double stack guns were built on frames originally designed for 9mm. Or maybe I have that backwards, but the SCSW doesn't specify.

If this was a later production CHP gun and frame cracking was a known issue, I'd think we'd have heard about it by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscampbell2734 View Post
You guys have to remember early, and the 4006 counts as early, 40 cals were largely rebarreled 9mms. HPs, 4006, Sig 226 in 40, Beretta 96, all were based on 9mms.

This was a common concern when these guns first came out. Browning redesigned the HP with a third locking lug and recontoured frame, why do you think they switched from forged to cast frames? Beretta had to reinforce the 96 slide to avoid cracks.

The fact this crack is right where the barrel cams down just tells me it's a wear and tear issue from firing a round the frame was not designed to handle.
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  #42  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:03 PM
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Just a heads up, if you do want to find a replacement, CDNN Sports has 4006TSWs for $399.
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  #43  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:14 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Going to be sending it off
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:25 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is offline
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Going to be sending it off
To where?

Did you contact S&W?

John?
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:07 PM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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To where?

Did you contact S&W?

John?
Yes to Smith and Wesson they said they may or may not be able to help.
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:32 PM
mscampbell2734 mscampbell2734 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
The gun the OP is talking about is a CHP 4006TSW. Which according to the SCSW was made in 2006-07. I'm not sure that it qualifies as an early gun. If it was an early 4006 (1990-1999), then that would be "early."

There's what appears to be a typo on page 370, where it lists 4006TSW production as 2000-2001. Which is beside the point here.

I'm far from a .40 3rd Gen expert, but I thought that the early single stack, like the 4013 were built on .45 frames, and the later double stack guns were built on frames originally designed for 9mm. Or maybe I have that backwards, but the SCSW doesn't specify.

If this was a later production CHP gun and frame cracking was a known issue, I'd think we'd have heard about it by now.
Your right in that the double stack guns were built on redesigned 9mm frames. That's my point. The actual manufactured date does not matter. What matters is the 4006 started life as a 9mm design and was then modified to a larger caliber. Not good for longevity.

As for hearing about it why do you think I mentioned both Browning and Beretta? They both had issues with their 40 cal guns requiring fairly extensive modifications.

Later 40 cal designs, H&K USP, Smith M&P, have been designed from the ground up as dual 40 call/9mm platforms and do not have the same issues.
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  #47  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:14 AM
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAOTSWGUY View Post
Thatís what I was thinking, as soon as you read the serial # they are going to go ďhuh thatís odd did you get that new?Ē
My 4566 was a former duty gun, and S&W CS told me the warranty was no good also. I sent it in and the repair guys didn't charge me a dime, so my only expense was the shipping to them.

Can't always go by what some guy at the front desk tells you.
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  #48  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:29 AM
DAOTSWGUY DAOTSWGUY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt View Post
My 4566 was a former duty gun, and S&W CS told me the warranty was no good also. I sent it in and the repair guys didn't charge me a dime, so my only expense was the shipping to them.

Can't always go by what some guy at the front desk tells you.
Iím hoping this is what happens, what do you guys think they will replace the frame? The gun? Or give me money for it?
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  #49  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:34 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAOTSWGUY View Post
Iím hoping this is what happens, what do you guys think they will replace the frame? The gun? Or give me money for it?
You have spun the S&W Customer Service "Wheel of Fortune".

Literally anything can happen.

John
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  #50  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:08 PM
malph malph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAOTSWGUY View Post
Iím hoping this is what happens, what do you guys think they will replace the frame? The gun? Or give me money for it?

I hope they do but I'm guessing they won't.
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