Update Photos added: Bone or Ivory Grips for Model 39s Legal ?

model3sw · #1 03-18-2020, 07:13 PM

UPDATE: Photos added 3/20/20, 12:15AM Pix 1 & 2 are the Ajax, obviously. Pix 3 & 4 are the set that were on a set of 39s that were W&K engraved (or W&K contractor engraved) in the 109xxx SN range.

NOTE: Naturally they will fit a pre-39 also but not "correct" for the pre-39s or very early Model 39s with the very short safety lever where the grips are cut without the corner reliefs. These have the relief cut out on the right grips for safety lever and such.

>>> If anyone needs a set or two just contact me to determine the legal method to ship / transfer. If we find there is no legal way to transfer or ship, then we cannot (unless we determine they are bone).

I have 3 sets of Model 39, 39-2, 52 grips in either Ivory or Bone.

Q1. How can I tell the difference between bone and ivory ?

Q2. What are the rules / laws on transferring ownership of grips if made of ivory ? Is Federal law different from State Law ? I'm in Florida.

Thanks, guys. Sal

reccpd101 · #2 03-18-2020, 07:33 PM

If you can prove the importation of ivory before the ban to your hands and pass that documentation on to the consumer with your bill of sale, there should be no problem.

See, What Can I Do With My Ivory?

Basically, you are creating a chain of title.

505Gibbs · #3 03-18-2020, 07:44 PM

Can you post pics - front & rear in color. That would help IMO.

gmborkovic · #4 03-18-2020, 08:11 PM

You just send them down to me and I will test them, and promise to return them. Or the hot needle test. If ivory, smells like burnt hair. Mike

4T5GUY · #5 03-18-2020, 10:30 PM

I’m posting some pics of fossilized ivory and “white”, (new,) ivory examples. Pictured left to right in first two pics. Bone is the last. The ivory is walrus. I guess you can tell whether it’s walrus or elephant by the grain.

Fossilized is legal to own and great to work with. My wife used to scrimshaw when we lived in Alaska, (she’s actually in The Who’s Who Book of the Best Scrimshaw Artists,) and we had a lot of ivory. Somehow up there, if you bought the white from a native and then it was worked, signed and dated it was legal to own and sell.

The bone is easy to tell due to its porous nature where the ivory is smooth.

Jim

gmborkovic · #6 03-19-2020, 01:28 PM

Well, are they Ivory or bone? Or composite? Mike

model3sw · #7 03-19-2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmborkovic

You just send them down to me and I will test them, and promise to return them. Or the hot needle test. If ivory, smells like burnt hair. Mike

Hey, Mike ... are you serious ? I thought that hot pin test went the way of the dodo bird at the advent of catalyzed and injection mold plastics.

The older imitation ivory, the red hot pin would just melt into it. The real ivory was supposed to be unaffected but so might "bone" give the same results.

I was taught to look into the grain or not really "cellular" but like that ... structure of the material at 40x and higher magnification.

Older bone and or ivory just about gives itself away by the way it ages but these grips I have are much younger, e.g. about 40-50 years old with no visible wear or damage. One set is made by Ajax when Ajax actually made real ivory grips. It has a full Ajax stamp in red ink on the back. I had called Ajax when I first got them years ago. I was informed that they had, at one time, made real ivory grips and that I could mail them to Ajax. I don't know whether they kept the same part number when from solid ivory to reconstituted ivory dust, reprocessed and re-compressed with resins.

the other 2 sets look not as professional but nice just the same. The other 2 sets came to me on a set of consecutive non-factory engraved consecutive numbered model 39s in the 109xxx range that were originally shipped to Wolf and Klar in the 1960s. The were shipped to W&K as plain model 39s with wood grips.

The engraving seemed textbook W&K style or a W&K contractor. The grips, while still very nice, not quite as nice as the Ajax.

I'll try to get some pix for you guys to compare.

model3sw · #8 03-20-2020, 12:16 AM

Photos added to OP #1. Although not pro (Mark Calzaretta) photos, they are sharp, clean, clear and should be able to be enlarged a bit without pixel-ing out. Sal

jc2721 · #9 03-20-2020, 01:52 AM

elephant ivory has a fine, crosshatched grain to it (Schreger lines), much like 4T5GUY's middle picture, the piece of ivory on the left. Walrus usually shows a "cracked ice" like center, like the piece on the right.

Believe it or not the "nicest" grain in elephant ivory comes from juvenile female tusks--it shows the best crosshatching.

I personally prefer "bark" ivory, particularly for 1911 grips. If I can figure out how to post pics from my android I'll take time out from hoarding TP to do so.