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03-27-2020, 11:06 PM
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4506 De-Cocker Conversion?
Beretta recently came out with a conversion kit for the 92FS to turn the de-cocker/manual safety into a de-cocker only. Since the 4506 has a slide mounted de-cocker/safety that works the same as the Beretta, I was wondering if S&W ever came out with something similar. I did some searching on the forums here and there was an older thread about MidwayUSA selling parts to convert the 5906. I looked on their site and don't see anything like that anymore. I also looked on Brownells and Numrich. I could call S&W next week and ask, but thought I would try here first.
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03-27-2020, 11:26 PM
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There were decock only, like the Beretta G models, 3rd gen pistols.
The Performance Center did them first, then the feature was made available to LE agencies for their orders. IIRC, the feature was first made available in the late 90s/early 2000s.
My agency got us 4566s with the decock only feature. Great pistols! I still have mine and use it regularly. There were 4506-1s that were decock only as well. But not made in as many numbers as other models.
The frame of many late model 3rd gen guns is machined to accept a decock only assembly. But earlier production guns are not. The assembly itself has been available from MidwayUSA a few times over the last two years. You may want to check there as to whether they will be made available again, or place a WTB in the classifieds here.
Good luck! Hope this helps. And welcome to the forum! Regards 18DAI
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03-27-2020, 11:35 PM
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Thanks 18DAI. Good info. I have always had an interest in the 5906 as well and hope to pick one up one of these days. For some reason, I like the DA/SAs and they all seem to have this 'design feature' that 20-30 later probably was not the best idea. There are a zillion 92FS out there and Beretta after years of prodding came out with the 92G.
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03-27-2020, 11:38 PM
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I got one of those CHP 4066 and it has that on it. I like the feature. Wish it was on all of them.
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03-27-2020, 11:45 PM
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IMO it is a nice feature. I have it on all my PC pistols and my old duty and off duty 45s.
But I have no problem with the original decocker/safety either. Our agency policy was to carry off safe. Just use the decocker to decock the pistol and return it to the ready to fire position. And if we had not piggy backed onto an order for a NC College police order, we probably would have just gotten standard 4566. And been fine with them too.
These days, retired from investigations, most of my carry guns are the standard decocker/safety design. I carry those off safe in the holster. And on the occasions I cary a decock only gun, or take one to the range, I still find my thumb moving to sweep off the "safety" as I decock and reholster. Old habits die hard. Regards 18DAI
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03-28-2020, 02:04 AM
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Last edited by jsbethel; 03-28-2020 at 02:14 AM.
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03-28-2020, 06:23 AM
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decocker for 4506
Just curious- Why would you want a decocker when you can engage the safety and have the hammer to drop and then disengage the safety. Had a 4506 and just about wore it out from shooting it so much and decocked the hammer and disengaged the safety for double action mode. Currently have 1006 and 4567 and do this on both. Just wondering and not trying to hijack the thread.
Last edited by jimintheburg; 03-28-2020 at 06:29 AM.
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03-28-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimintheburg
Just curious- Why would you want a decocker when you can engage the safety and have the hammer to drop and then disengage the safety. Had a 4506 and just about wore it out from shooting it so much and decocked the hammer and disengaged the safety for double action mode. Currently have 1006 and 4567 and do this on both. Just wondering and not trying to hijack the thread.
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Because they don't want a pistol that should be in the ready mode, end up drawing pistol for self-defense situation pull trigger and find the safety is locked. OH - - IT
Some folks aren't used to a pistol having a locked safety and haven't practiced turning safety off when drawing.
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03-28-2020, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI
There were decock only, like the Beretta G models, 3rd gen pistols.
The Performance Center did them first, then the feature was made available to LE agencies for their orders. IIRC, the feature was first made available in the late 90s/early 2000s.
My agency got us 4566s with the decock only feature. Great pistols! I still have mine and use it regularly. There were 4506-1s that were decock only as well. But not made in as many numbers as other models.
The frame of many late model 3rd gen guns is machined to accept a decock only assembly. But earlier production guns are not. The assembly itself has been available from MidwayUSA a few times over the last two years. You may want to check there as to whether they will be made available again, or place a WTB in the classifieds here.
Good luck! Hope this helps. And welcome to the forum! Regards 18DAI
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Are we talking about two different things here? Slide mounted levers vs frame mounted levers? I've seen pistols with the slide mounted lever where it's spring loaded and pops back up after decocking. I've also seen guns like the 1076 where the slide doesn't have a lever and the decocker is part of the frame like a Sig. I ask because you made a comment about frames being machined to accept a decock assembly.
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Last edited by Elkins45; 03-28-2020 at 10:06 AM.
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03-28-2020, 10:15 AM
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All of my generation 3 S&W pistols have a safety/decocker. I never use the safety. I cautioned other deputies about the dangers of using the safety as well. The pistol is as safe as a revolver with the safety off, and that is how I carry them.
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03-28-2020, 10:32 AM
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I've been working at training myself to flick the safety down and then up before reholstering.
I read an article in one of the gun magazines about the potential risk of reholstering a TDA pistol when it's in Single Action mode. Which would likely happen if one were ever to be in a self defense shooting situation.
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03-28-2020, 11:35 AM
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decocker for 4506
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSDeputy
All of my generation 3 S&W pistols have a safety/decocker. I never use the safety. I cautioned other deputies about the dangers of using the safety as well. The pistol is as safe as a revolver with the safety off, and that is how I carry them.
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Thanks for replies
While I have never carried any of my 3rd gen S&W because of the weight and wanting to cc, I would do exactly like you said. Decock it and disengage the safety. Like you said, it is like a double action revolver. While NC is an open carry state, I prefer to cc but would do exactly as you said if I were to carry one open or cc
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03-28-2020, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbethel
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Thanks jsbethel.
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03-28-2020, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkins45
Are we talking about two different things here? Slide mounted levers vs frame mounted levers? I've seen pistols with the slide mounted lever where it's spring loaded and pops back up after decocking.
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Right, I am talking about slide mounted levers on DA/SA semi's. What I want is the lever to pop back up after de-cocking and not have a manual safety. This is what Beretta did on the 92G. The idea is that the increased trigger pull on the first DA shot is the 'safety' and with the modification, you avoid inadvertent safety engagement such as when you rack the slide or unholster the firearm.
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03-28-2020, 04:50 PM
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As was mentioned, the 3rd gen slides had to be machined to accept the spring-loaded/decock-only assembly's spring. This machining was done underneath the left side lever (hole and a relief cut), creating clearance for one end of the spring (wound around the assembly body) needed for an anchor point.
Originally, when it was first offered as a LE-only option, the slide machining was being done at the PC as a special order. Later on, as the full-size TSW models were introduced, the TSW slides came already machined to accept the option. Oddly enough, I noticed the 4040PD was also machined to accept the option. At least mine is.
I sent an early stainless CS45 slide back to the PC to have it modified for the spring-loaded decocker assembly. Back then, the older .45 slides had to have an angled recess machined on the right side to allow the ambi lever to be lowered for removal. (Newer production .45 slides eventually came without the angled recess cut being necessary.)
My older CS45 didn't come with an ambi safety, so the PC smith had to file a recess by hand on the right side of the slide so the ambi lever of the decock-only assembly could be installed and removed (for detailed disassembly of the slide). I got a call from the PC smith who had done the machining on my CS45 slide, apologizing that he'd slipped during a file stroke and rolled over the front edge of the new recess. I got the impression he was wondering if I'd demand a new stainless slide be ordered from the factory at their expense.
I told him that it was going to be a hard-used "working" off-duty weapon, and a rolled over or flattened front edge of the recess wasn't something that was going to concern me. I expected it to see the usual scratches, nicks and dings typically accrued for hard-used guns that saw most of their life outside a safe.
Interestingly enough, my late 90's production 3913 came with the slide already machined to accept the decock-only option ... but nobody I called could explain why it came that way. This was before I'd ordered the CS45, and the new spring-loaded assembly was a brand new LE-only option we'd just learned about in an armorer class. The best guess I was told was that the slide might've been modified at the PC (they were only doing the machining there at that time) for a special project, but had been returned to the factory parts inventory because the project was canceled? They didn't know.
Anyway, I quickly ordered the new assembly and installed it.
So, I only have the spring-loaded option on 2 of my 3rd gen's. Each time I decock them the spring-loaded lever outruns my thumb in going to raise the lever to the off-safe/ready-to-shoot position. (Too many years of having ingrained automatically pushing down and up on the safety levers, as my agency wanted us to carry off-safe/ready-to-fire. )
BTW, replacing a standard manual safety lever assembly with a spring-loaded assembly typically also requires that a new sear release lever be filed and fitted, due to the tolerance change between the lever in the frame and the new decock-only assembly (just like replacing a regular manual safety assembly replaced for repair).
The .45 ambi lever needs to be used in both the .45 slides, as well as the 9/.40 slides, when a decock-only assembly is installed in each size slide (9/.40 v. .45). (Spacer material spot on the inside of the .45 ambi lever, where it touches the outside of the slide, to position the assembly and prevent lateral movement that might interfere with firing pin movement through the assembly.)
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 03-28-2020 at 08:20 PM.
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03-29-2020, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbethel
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My 4566, an ex-LE trade-in, has this feature ...
But my question is, would this decock-only unit for a 4506 work in a 1006 or 1066 (both with the same slide-mounted lever)?
My 1006 is an early model (born on date of 1990). The 1066 is later production.
Last edited by Frank Black; 03-29-2020 at 12:37 PM.
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03-29-2020, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
My 4566, an ex-LE trade-in, has this feature ...
But my question is, would this decock-only unit for a 4506 work in a 1006 or 1066 (both with the same slide-mounted lever)
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Yes, with the proper slide machining.
John
Last edited by JohnHL; 03-29-2020 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Qualifying. Assumed knowledge of questioner.
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03-29-2020, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
My 4566, an ex-LE trade-in, has this feature ...
But my question is, would this decock-only unit for a 4506 work in a 1006 or 1066 (both with the same slide-mounted lever)?
My 1006 is an early model (born on date of 1990). The 1066 is later production.
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Do either of your 1006/1066 slides have the required extra machining steps done to them to accept the decock-only assembly?
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03-31-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
Do either of your 1006/1066 slides have the required extra machining steps done to them to accept the decock-only assembly?
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Don't know ... Never disassembled that area to find out. I'd likely leave the 1006 in original condition anyway as it's a very early model.
The 1066, like my very late-90s ex-LE 4566, has often been a carry piece, so it'd make sense, from a muscle-memory/manual-of-arms standpoint, to have it set up like the 4566.
Can you post a picture of what the extra machining step looks like in that section of the slide? Then I can check.
Thanks, FB!
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03-31-2020, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
Can you post a picture of what the extra machining step looks like in that section of the slide? Then I can check.
Thanks, FB!
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Here ya go...
The required machining is that little end mill cut with the 1/16" hole in it. It takes about 10 minute to add this feature to an unmodified slide. The tedious time consuming part is the fitting of a new sear release lever if the decock function gauges out of time with the new decocker body.
Cheers
Bill
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03-31-2020, 01:25 PM
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If you have a good light, you can check the slide without having to remove the manual safety assembly.
Take the EMPTY gun and lower the manual safety lever to the down, On-Safe position. Look at the space now visible under the front (top) of the left side lever. If the slide has been machined to accept the option, there will be a small additional recess, and a hole in the bottom of the recess (for the end of the decock-only assembly's spring to be anchored in the slide).
No extra machining for decock-only:
Machining for decock-only option:
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03-31-2020, 01:29 PM
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Damn, BMCM beat me to posting a pic, and his shows the complete machining without the assembly body being in the way.
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03-31-2020, 06:38 PM
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Thanks to BMCM & Fastbolt for the info and pictures!
I'll check the 1066 tomorrow and let you know.
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