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Old 05-13-2020, 09:57 PM
josywales josywales is offline
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Default School me on 10mm. Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.?

I've wanted a 10mm since Sonny had one, but could never pull the trigger. Then, I went all 45 and 9mm, which is great. But I still have to scratch this itch:

-10mm
- 4.25-4.5" barrel
- single stack
- straight grip, like the 1066
Not certain of all of the S&W variants either.

I fear this will cost me.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:02 PM
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School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.?  
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...Sig P220s are single stack...and pricey...

...the one in the photo isn't mine...but I wish it was...

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Old 05-13-2020, 10:09 PM
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Dan Wesson has several offerings in the 10mm caliber.
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Old 05-13-2020, 10:47 PM
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School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.?  
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I scratched that itch with a Colt Delta Elite because I'm a 1911 freak. Then I got a box of Sig ammo to try it out and it bulged every case. Now I know about unsupported chambers. Now I load my own in a hot 40SW kinda way and I bought a Springfield XDM in 10mm for full loads. Only problem is the Springer is a plastic, striker fired gun. Works fine, but again, I'm a 1911 guy. I also like that Sig 220, but yeah, pricey. The Springfield was really inexpensive . I've heard guys say that there's no truth to the supported/unsupported chamber thing but I was there and got the T shirt. It's still fun to shoot the Delta but I keep it under 1250fps.
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Old 05-13-2020, 11:01 PM
josywales josywales is offline
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Thanks so far. I love he 1911 as well, but was looking for something different. I have Sig 239 and 228 and live them as well. Was hoping for a 1066 or variant I guess.

The P220 is nice, but I could live without the rail. I hate that it's not optional.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:59 AM
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Default 10mm

Here's something "different" and unconventional for sure. Create your own 10mm.

A model 4053 converted to 10mm. The original .40S&W slide and frame were left unaltered.


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Old 05-14-2020, 09:01 AM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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The 1076 is the best but 500 dollar 1076s are a thing of the decade and a half past. I would say any 10xx series Smith are excellent 10mms. I never really understood what the big deal was until I owned one.
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:20 AM
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School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.? School me on 10mm.  Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James&theGiant1911 View Post
The 1076 is the best but 500 dollar 1076s are a thing of the decade and a half past. I would say any 10xx series Smith are excellent 10mms. I never really understood what the big deal was until I owned one.
I will echo that sentiment.
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:42 AM
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RIA has single and double stack 10mm’s.
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Old 05-14-2020, 09:53 AM
josywales josywales is offline
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Thanks. Understood on the pricing. I'm prepared to pay for the 1066 if I can find a clean one.
All 1076s are 5", correct?
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
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RIA has single and double stack 10mms.
Yes they do, and very good value too. Planning on getting a 52009 1911A2 double stack 10mm any day now.
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josywales View Post
Thanks. Understood on the pricing. I'm prepared to pay for the 1066 if I can find a clean one.
All 1076s are 5", correct?
4.25 inch........

Two 1076s with an AS 1006

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Old 05-14-2020, 11:03 AM
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Did S&W ever have a brass-to-face problem like Glock?
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:10 AM
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Sonny's 10mm was a Bren Ten, good luck finding one, you will need even more luck finding magazines for one.

Cheap 10mm pistols would be either a Rock Island Armory 1911 chambered in 10mm, they have them in single stack and double stack varieties, barrel lengths of 4.25 and 5 inches. Another option is the EAA witness, which is a double stack, somewhat similar to the Bren Ten, might scratch that Sonny Crockett of seasons 1 and 2 itch.

More expensive would be Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber, or Para-Ordnance 1911's. Para-Ordnance makes double stack and single stack versions. Glocks are good in 10mm too. S&W 10mm pistols are out there, but expect to pay a premium as they have been out of production for a long time.
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:11 AM
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The 1911 world is full of single stack auto loaders chambered for the 10MM Auto cartridge. Most 1911s are 5" or longer to take advantage of the 10MM Auto loadings





The SIG P220 is only offered in a 5" barrel and only on the steel frame. The HK in the photo is a double stack



There are lots of pistols that have been converted to 10MM Auto over the years. The Smith and Wessons are probably the best for a conversion. These make great carry guns because of their alluminium frames



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Old 05-14-2020, 07:15 PM
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I sure like my S&W Model Ten Ought Six. Be prepared to pay up to $1200 though for an excellent condition example with at least one spare mag. I never liked the frame mounted decocker models, that little lever on the side just looks like an add-on.
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:05 PM
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Yeah, I have my checkbook out...
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Old 05-14-2020, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
Sonny's 10mm was a Bren Ten, good luck finding one, you will need even more luck finding magazines for one.

Cheap 10mm pistols would be either a Rock Island Armory 1911 chambered in 10mm, they have them in single stack and double stack varieties, barrel lengths of 4.25 and 5 inches. Another option is the EAA witness, which is a double stack, somewhat similar to the Bren Ten, might scratch that Sonny Crockett of seasons 1 and 2 itch.

More expensive would be Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber, or Para-Ordnance 1911's. Para-Ordnance makes double stack and single stack versions. Glocks are good in 10mm too. S&W 10mm pistols are out there, but expect to pay a premium as they have been out of production for a long time.
The Bren Ten was one of the pistols used in the series, after Dornaus & Dixon, who made the Bren Ten, went out of business in 1986, it was replaced in season 3 by a 2nd Gen 645. And when S&W came out with the 3rd Gens, the 645 was replaced by a 4506 in the 5th and last season of Miami Vice.

Most people assumed that a 10mm was used throughout the series, but it wasn't. The last episode of Miami Vice aired 1/25/90 and the 1006 came out in 1990.

Miami Vice - Wikipedia
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:09 PM
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Sonny's 10mm was a Bren Ten, good luck finding one, you will need even more luck finding magazines for one.
Sonny had two magazines for that BREN 10

I saw him do a mag change in one of the episodes and could not believe it . . . . . 1500 BREN owners with ZERO magazines and he had TWO
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Old 05-14-2020, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks. Understood on the pricing. I'm prepared to pay for the 1066 if I can find a clean one.
All 1076s are 5", correct?
Hate to say it, but 1066's are a tough find... there were only 5,067 made, compared to 26,978 1006's, and 13,805 1076's.

I found my 1066 completely by luck 7 years ago, when I went to look at a different gun listed for sale at a gun store, and they had just put the 1066 in their display case that morning.

But if you find one, they are worth it, I like it better than my 1006.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:15 AM
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Default School me on 10mm. Are S&W the only single stacks, etc.?

I bought a Sig P220 Elite SS 10mm SAO in January. These are single stacks and are built as well as the original 3rd gen 10xx series. Which is a good argument that S&W 3rd gen autos would sell well if reintroduced.

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Old 05-15-2020, 03:42 AM
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MBliss, that Sig is a very fine looking gun. I thought they all had rails, glad to see they don't. Very nice!
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
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Sonny had two magazines for that BREN 10

I saw him do a mag change in one of the episodes and could not believe it . . . . . 1500 BREN owners with ZERO magazines and he had TWO
Probably urban legend and sadly, I cannot do better than to sheepishly say that I read it on a gun forum... but a guy who was a gun crank and lived in south Florida watched the crew film an episode and in one action scene, a Bren magazine was ditched in a flurry. Hours later after the whole crew was packed up and gone, the gun crank searched the area where he thought hed seen that magazine fly and he found it!

Now YES, this tale holds no weight... unless someone else who recalls this and can search the vast annals of the internet to find a more detailed description of this event.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
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Probably urban legend and sadly, I cannot do better than to sheepishly say that I read it on a gun forum... but a guy who was a gun crank and lived in south Florida watched the crew film an episode and in one action scene, a Bren magazine was ditched in a flurry. Hours later after the whole crew was packed up and gone, the gun crank searched the area where he thought hed seen that magazine fly and he found it!

Now YES, this tale holds no weight... unless someone else who recalls this and can search the vast annals of the internet to find a more detailed description of this event.
I had no idea that anybody had seen me that day . . .
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
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I scratched that itch with a Colt Delta Elite because I'm a 1911 freak. Then I got a box of Sig ammo to try it out and it bulged every case. Now I know about unsupported chambers.
There is a fix for that. Ain't cheap though. My brother bought a Auto Ordnance 10mm years ago. It would bulge brass and even had one blow out, so we didn't shoot hot stuff through it. Finally got a mill and cut the frame for a ramped barrel. Bought a clark/para ramped 10mm barrel and all is well now. Isn't a cheap fix and will likely devalue the Delta Elite, but if you want to keep it for life and shoot it, might be something to look into.

Unsupported on left, supported ramped on right.

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Old 05-15-2020, 07:15 AM
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I have a 1076 and absolutely love the decocker myself. Had mine since maybe 2000 or so and only paid about $350 for it. My brother has the same one. Both of ours do not have the mag disconnect. A friend has the same gun with a mag disconnector.

My dad had a 1026, but unfortunately it was stolen. I would really like a 1006 since it is my birthday, but I put it off years ago when they could be had for around $500 and now they are out of my price range.

The decocker is better for carry since it doesn't have the slide safety sticking out.

I have a 4053 and 4013. Was planning on converting the 4013 to a 10mm, but so far hit has issues I can't work out. It is the only 3rd gen I have had that has ever not worked properly and I have like 8. The last round in 4 different mags will jump out of the gun instead of chambering. Tried stiffer slide spring and mag springs, still haven't been able to iron it out. Once I get it worked out, will most likely make it a 10mm.

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Old 05-15-2020, 07:40 AM
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Sonny had three mags for that Bren. In one episode he does a bit of time at a Hogan's Alley type range and you can see him use mags from both pouches.
In a scene in the Everglades, his reload is with a partial mag (first time I ever saw anyone do that on TV) and puts one in his mouth to prevent dropping it.
I remember thinking: This is why shoulder holsters are impractical.
Of course when I was only a little older I went out and bought a shoulder rig like Sonny's.
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:09 AM
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I carry my P16-10 in a shoulder holster during cold weather while hunting. Much easier to reach the gun there than on the hip. If not wearing an overcoat, I carry on my hip. But I also have 16 rounds, odds of needing a reload is slim to none in the hunting woods.

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Old 05-15-2020, 08:12 AM
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I currently have a S&W 1066. I've had the 1006, 1086, and 1076. Liked them all!
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:16 AM
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I'll echo the 3rd gen sentiment. I've owned 2 different 1076s, kept my VSP issued variant and traded the other one (a Chesterfield VA PD variant), and have since acquired a Massachusetts police agency issued 4053 which I had converted to 10mm by none other than the forum famous BMCM.

I've owned a G20, G29, 1076, XDM-10, P220-10, and 4053-10. Love them all, but the single stack 3rd gens are my favorite, with the 4053 being my favorite, believe it or not. Wish Sig made a commander sized P220-10. The 4053 is absolute perfection. Can't wait to acquire a 1086 to accompany it.

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Old 05-15-2020, 11:40 AM
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Sonny's Bren Ten wasn't really a Bren Ten either.

His Bren X was in 45 ACP. Why? There were no 10mm blank cartridges available, but 45 ACP blanks were readily available, so the studio bought a pair of Bren X's chambered in 45 ACP.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:13 PM
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I can vouch for the 1076 as a very good sized single stack 10mm. It has enough weight to make it a great shooter, and sized small enough to carry. Mine is a KSP issued pistol.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:47 PM
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Hmm. I don't see a Sig P220 without the rail. The cost of the Sig is pretty close to 1066s, but with factory support. That said, I've several 3rd Gen S&Ws, as well as some Sigs, so I'm caught trying to decide which makes more sense. Would love to try at least one, but there's zero chance of that happening.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:56 PM
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I just cant shoot sigs without riding the slide stop, so for me it wiuld have to be the 1000 series S&W
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:53 PM
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At some point I would love to dip my toe into the 10mm water. The 3rd Gen S&Ws have always been my second choice. My first choice, if remotely practical, would have been a Bren Ten. They came out when I was particularly susceptible to what was in Guns and Ammo.

That said, I really the look of the Sigs. Buying new with factory support is very appealing.

Unfortunately, I have two realities that will likely impact my decisions. My eyes are aging, and the mix of 10mm and an optic will probably make the most sense. Glock 10mms are reasonably priced and are a click of the mouse away, already prepped from the factory for a red dot.
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Old 05-15-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chubbs103 View Post
At some point I would love to dip my toe into the 10mm water. The 3rd Gen S&Ws have always been my second choice. My first choice, if remotely practical, would have been a Bren Ten. They came out when I was particularly susceptible to what was in Guns and Ammo.

That said, I really the look of the Sigs. Buying new with factory support is very appealing.

Unfortunately, I have two realities that will likely impact my decisions. My eyes are aging, and the mix of 10mm and an optic will probably make the most sense. Glock 10mms are reasonably priced and are a click of the mouse away, already prepped from the factory for a red dot.
Twins separated at birth. And, your point on the optics is also a consideration.
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by josywales View Post
Hmm. I don't see a Sig P220 without the rail. The cost of the Sig is pretty close to 1066s, but with factory support. That said, I've several 3rd Gen S&Ws, as well as some Sigs, so I'm caught trying to decide which makes more sense. Would love to try at least one, but there's zero chance of that happening.
That Sig does have a rail in my post. (Almost all full size Sigs made in the USA are railed. I have owned all of the 10xxs series pistols a one time or another except the elusive 1046.They are all great guns. But I got that Sig almost new at $1000. It has customer support and is a fine all SS pistol. You can't buy a like new 10xx these days for under $1K. A few months ago I was hunting a 1006 or 1066 or a 1026 with box and docs. I couldn't touch them for $1K. So I bought a new Sig for less money.
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Old 05-15-2020, 05:58 PM
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I scratched that itch with a Colt Delta Elite because I'm a 1911 freak. Then I got a box of Sig ammo to try it out and it bulged every case. Now I know about unsupported chambers.... I've heard guys say that there's no truth to the supported/unsupported chamber thing but I was there and got the T shirt. It's still fun to shoot the Delta but I keep it under 1250fps.
I got the T shirt too. Delta Elite. I didn't just bulge the case I blew it out. That was a scary few milliseconds. I posted that on here many years ago. Maybe 2013. So it is true.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:47 PM
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Have you thought about a revolver? I was poking around Smiths website last night and they have a 10mm revolver with 4" and 6" barrel. That would be fun. Will also shoot .40, so you can punch paper with milder loads when you want.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:26 PM
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I have a 4.25" DAO m1086, and really like it. It has Trijicon night sights but is otherwise original. Steel framed, with the smoothest trigger pull I have experienced. It fits nicely into GI leather, and in a tanker shoulder-chest rig is my favorite whitetail deer gun.
I have fired my old patrol partner's m1076, but prefer my slightly shorter DAO model.
I once took a doe with mine at 57 paces.
It's a fine handgun.
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Old 05-15-2020, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josywales View Post
I've wanted a 10mm since Sonny had one, but could never pull the trigger. Then, I went all 45 and 9mm, which is great. But I still have to scratch this itch:

-10mm
- 4.25-4.5" barrel
- single stack
- straight grip, like the 1066
Not certain of all of the S&W variants either.

I fear this will cost me.

Thoughts?
I have two of the Rock Island Armory Tac Ultras, 4.25" barrel in 10 mm and I think it is a great gun. Maybe not now but back a couple of years ago the RIA was half the price of a decent 10 mm like a colt or a smith. I hunt javelina with it in the SW deserts in the winter. Gives me 8 fast shots instead of using the Dan Wesson 357 revolver with a 6" barrel. Either is a great pistol hunting weapon and I feel that the RIA Ultra in 10 is well made and the best bang for the buck.
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:12 PM
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Rosewood and mbliss57. Looks like we've got a club. Right after this all took place I took the Delta up to Frank Glenn gunsmith up in Phoenix. He told me just about exactly what Rosewood said so I left it alone and use it for a plinker. But I love the full loads in the XDM.
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Old 05-15-2020, 11:26 PM
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I had a Bren Ten, then a succession of 10MM pistols and revolvers. When the dust cleared, the S&W 10MMs had become my favorites. Over time, I had about a half dozen S&W 10MM semi-autos; 1026s, 1006s, 1076s, and two of the early 5" 610 revolvers. All good guns, but I came to prefer the 5" semis due to a bit more velocity and heavier slide. Now only have a 1026, acquired years ago. A robust, reliable, pistol, but wish it had the adjustable sights as available on the 1006s. BTW, much as I like the semis, the 610 revolvers were the most accurate 10MMs I ever owned.

I'm a 1911 guy, so of course I had to have a Delta, and later a Kimber 10MM. Never had a case let go in the Delta, but confess all that unsupported brass hanging out over the barrel throat worried me, since I've always shot plenty of the "real" 10MM ammo. I realize legions of Delta owners report they never had a case let go, ramped barrels,etc. are not needed. OK,I get it. But for my own peace of mind, I much preferred guns like the Kimber and S&W that have ramped barrels and well supported chambers....

Anyway josywales, I guess the conventional wisdom is to buy an RIA, Glock or perhaps a SIG. But even though though discontinued by the factory, maybe a clean S&W 10MM might be worthy of consideration...
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Old 05-16-2020, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
Was planning on converting the 4013 to a 10mm, but so far it has issues I can't work out. It is the only 3rd gen I have had that has ever not worked properly and I have like 8. The last round in 4 different mags will jump out of the gun instead of chambering. Tried stiffer slide spring and mag springs, still haven't been able to iron it out. Once I get it worked out, will most likely make it a 10mm.
Do your magazines have the vertical top round indentations (VTRI) in them or not? The early ones did not have them.

While the mags with the VTRI are preferred for it as a 4013 if you do convert it to a 1013 the mags without VTRI are preferred.

The problem with the VTRI, from a 40-to-10mm conversion perspective, is that once you remove the spacer from the VTRI 4013 magazine (to accept the longer 10mm round) that once beneficial VTRI is now in the wrong place (too far forward) to hold the 10mm round in the extractor groove.

In fact it causes binding on the cartridge's body, restricting movement, & has to be reduced/eliminated for proper feeding to occur, therefore not helping to keep the round in place, in this instance.

My 1013 occasionally pops the last round out of the mag when firing full handloads.

Heck, even my 4040PD likes to do it sometimes.


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Old 05-16-2020, 05:13 PM
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Not S&W related, but I had two EAA Witness 10 mms. First was a plain-jane "Wonder Finish" steel frame DA/SA 4.5" barrel. Not bad, but I didn't like the fixed sights (POI hidden behind front sight) and the trigger was so-so. A good hiking gun, though.

Later I got a 6" barrel Hunter model. SAO trigger was pretty good. Front sight blade could maybe have been a tiny bit wider for best target accuracy (or rear notch narrower) but off a rest I could shoot it as accurately as any handgun. But when standing on my hind legs, the 10 mm seemed to aggravate my flinch worse than even a .43 Magnum, and I could never do the gun justice as a target pistol.

Between the flinch and not liking the difficulty of finding the brass after the guns threw it 15 to 20 yards (lost about 30% of brass at each session), I gave up and took the guns to a consignment shop. Sadly, they didn't sell until just after I passed up a .41 Mag 8-3/8" barrel that I saw in the For Sale forum here. I kicked myself for months over that one.

10 mm is a fascinating caliber. If I was to become interested in handgun hunting, I might try it again in a Glock 40 MOS.

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Old 05-16-2020, 06:08 PM
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Star produced the Megastar for a couple of years.
It was made in 10mm and .45 ACP.
Big, beefy, hefty guns that were designed to stand up to a steady diet of full power 10mm ammo.
Still kicking myself for not buying the used .45 Megastar at my LGS over a decade ago. I was waiting to find one in 10mm because the gun is so heavy. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have bought it and converted it to .45 Super.

TLDR; Star Megastar laughs at your puny S&W, Colt, and Glock 10mm pistols.
Only a 500 pound anvil is worthy of full house 10mm.


Seriously, it's a beefy, heavy duty 10mm.
Wanna get into "saggin' yo britches?" Carry a Megastar. It'll sag yo britches right to the ground.


I do have to wonder if my 1066 is a good candidate for conversion to 10mm.
Or, maybe I should convert it to .45 Super and be done with it?

Are there any steel framed 3rd gen .40s that are suitable for converting to 10?
My hands and wrists are beyond the days of shooting full power 10mm from an aluminum framed compact.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:31 AM
James&theGiant1911 James&theGiant1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
Sonny's Bren Ten wasn't really a Bren Ten either.

His Bren X was in 45 ACP. Why? There were no 10mm blank cartridges available, but 45 ACP blanks were readily available, so the studio bought a pair of Bren X's chambered in 45 ACP.
Not only that it was also painted silver while original Bren Tens are two tone black on silver. It picked up better in night shots same with the Ferrari which was painted white on special from Ferrari.
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
Sonny's 10mm was a Bren Ten, good luck finding one, you will need even more luck finding magazines for one.

Cheap 10mm pistols would be either a Rock Island Armory 1911 chambered in 10mm, they have them in single stack and double stack varieties, barrel lengths of 4.25 and 5 inches. Another option is the EAA witness, which is a double stack, somewhat similar to the Bren Ten, might scratch that Sonny Crockett of seasons 1 and 2 itch.

More expensive would be Colt, Dan Wesson, Kimber, or Para-Ordnance 1911's. Para-Ordnance makes double stack and single stack versions. Glocks are good in 10mm too. S&W 10mm pistols are out there, but expect to pay a premium as they have been out of production for a long time.
RIA also makes a 6" 10mm in single or double stack. Around a grand.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
RIA also makes a 6" 10mm in single or double stack. Around a grand.
Also, you MIGHT be able to get a CZ 97b converted by CZ Custom to 10mm for $1162: https://czcustom.com/cz-parts-all/cz...roductquestion

They announced this at the Shot show, but I have not seen any reports of anyone actually being able to buy one yet, and CZ Custom is showing "out of stock" on their website.

Looks like a great option to me, a little cheaper than a Sig. Love to hear if anyone has actually seen one of these beasts.
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:22 PM
Chubbs103 Chubbs103 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James&theGiant1911 View Post
Not only that it was also painted silver while original Bren Tens are two tone black on silver. It picked up better in night shots same with the Ferrari which was painted white on special from Ferrari.
I have no knowledge of what was or wasn't done to the Miami Vice pistol, but a hard chrome slide was a $50 option from Dornaus & Dixon. I do not know how many came that way (interweb says ~75), but I'm sure plenty were chromed later just to be like Sonny.

By the time the Ferrari was white, S&W was the pistol of choice.
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