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Old 05-16-2020, 10:46 AM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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Dear friends,

I am french and a year ago, after 1 year of french police and administration investigations i got my firearms licence for sport shooting.

I have been lucky to bought a model 27-2 5“ 1975 with orignal wooden presentation case, original brochures etc.. excellent condition including a beautiful model 27 6“ 1/2 1985.

Today, i was at my local gunshop looking for a model 59. The seller introduced me to a model 659. Following The "Standard Catalogue of Smith&Wesson", it is described as a model 59 with nickel (inbox??) finishing. Is that correct?

Also, how can i determinate the year of manufacturing regarding the Serial number? It is not easy in my book.

Finally, regarding the condition (see photos attached), is 440$ fine?

Anything i should know about it? I love to buy a firearms with a history behind it. Model 59 sounds interesting to be first S&W to get a 15 bullets magazine, to replace model 39 (lower capacity) requested by the Navy. Is that correct?

This diamond has been reserved for me, should i give a go !


Earlier this year i bought a magnificent MP15 SPort2 5.56, which also use with a 22LR bolt from CMMG. IT is excellent, especially at the french army with the FAMAS i used real 5.56 NATO instead of 223R. Believe or not, recoil and power is more fun with 5.56 NATO. Only problem is proper 5.56 NATO brass is usually reserved for the army, but luckily i got some. BTW do you know the difference btw 5.56 NATO and 223R ? It's not only the powder, but also the high pressure, mostly made by the design of the round it self.

Best,

denis.
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File Type: jpg IMG_9471.jpg (109.8 KB, 223 views)

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Old 05-16-2020, 11:10 AM
leonardocarrillo leonardocarrillo is offline
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Hello Denis, the model 659 is not nickel it is stainless steel, in S & W the models that start with 6 indicate stainless steel, the gun that shows in the photo I really like.
I don't know what the market is like in France but in my country (Argentina) an S & W 659 for $ 440 is a gift, here that used pistol would cost between $ 800 and $ 950.
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Old 05-16-2020, 11:20 AM
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Given the later squared trigger guard, the pistol is from around 1986-87.
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Old 05-16-2020, 11:39 AM
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That is a late production Model 659, which is a stainless steel receiver and slide, not nickel plated. It is the precursor to the Model 5906. Model 59/459/559/659 magazines hold 14 rounds. Magazines for the 5903/5904/5906 hold 15 rounds and fit the earlier 59 and x59 pistols.
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Old 05-16-2020, 11:54 AM
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The TBH serial number range was produced in 1987.
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Old 05-16-2020, 01:55 PM
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Is it difficult to immigrate to France?

If that’s typical of the market price of older Smiths, I may have to move there.
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Old 05-16-2020, 03:59 PM
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That looks pretty clean. I would snatch that up.
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Old 05-16-2020, 06:10 PM
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Very nice, $440 is more than fair.
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Old 05-17-2020, 10:54 PM
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Denis, the 659 is one of the finest pistols S&W ever produced. I have two of them. Why? I had an FFL (federal firearms license) at the time and I heard that S&W was discontinuing their production. So when the 5906 came out, I grabbed two 659s because I knew I wasn't going to be able to get more.

Many words come to mind re regarding these guns. Fragile isn't one of them. The gun should last longer than you and when the 5906 came out, I picked up one of them, but I still prefer the 659.


The S&W 5906 (top) and 659. Both are
outstanding.


In one of the very first military trials, the Beretta 92 had a malfunction rate of once in every 2,000 rounds. Phenomenal! The next was the S&W 459, with a rate of one malfunction in 950 rounds. But that's in tests with dropping it in mud, etc. And once in 950 is virtually a perfect score. I bought a Beretta 92 back then and sold it because I could get a Taurus PT92, which was just as reliable, though not as accurate. I dumped the Taurus, but bought another (in stainless) just a few years ago and saw a much better accuracy rate.


Taurus PT92 AR

All these guns are going to give you great accuracy and superb reliability. Get whichever one you like best. The 659 is a gorgeous gun and was featured in many movies because of its beauty. Its stainless steel form made it great and I think you'll love it. If you watch the movie SNEAKERS with Robert Redford, you'll see it has a lot of screen time. Also RESERVOIR DOGS.

Buy it...you'll love it. 🖐😎

--

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Old 05-18-2020, 04:20 AM
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Let me echo what the others have said, "Buy it." I got mine years ago and it was $345. With inflation, it's a fair price.
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:57 AM
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Hi,
thank you very much for you help. I really appreciate. Also one question came to my mind. My local gunshop has received yesterday a S&W 545 (see photos attached). Considering pricing, If you could buy only one (656 for 440$) or this 545 for 859$, which one will you buy? Considering that I love guns that has a real history, something special for the brand itself or for the whole firearms history. Something with an interesting historical heritage.
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Old 05-22-2020, 08:21 AM
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I hate to admit, I've never even heard of a Model 545. I wonder if it could be a mis-stamped 745?

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Old 05-22-2020, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Hi,
thank you very much for you help. I really appreciate. Also one question came to my mind. My local gunshop has received yesterday a S&W 545 (see photos attached). Considering pricing, If you could buy only one (656 for 440$) or this 545 for 859$, which one will you buy? Considering that I love guns that has a real history, something special for the brand itself or for the whole firearms history. Something with an interesting historical heritage.
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I hate to admit, I've never even heard of a Model 545. I wonder if it could be a mis-stamped 745?
To me, it looks like a Model 645 with a huge, aftermarket rear sight. In S&W's second gen pistol numbering system, a 545 would be a carbon steel frame and carbon steel slide. I am not aware of any such pistol being produced. My guess is that it could be an incorrectly marked receiver or the "6" was not struck deeply and it looks more like a "5".
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Old 05-24-2020, 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
To me, it looks like a Model 645 with a huge, aftermarket rear sight. In S&W's second gen pistol numbering system, a 545 would be a carbon steel frame and carbon steel slide. I am not aware of any such pistol being produced. My guess is that it could be an incorrectly marked receiver or the "6" was not struck deeply and it looks more like a "5".

Your explanation sounds very smart. But then i went back to the shop, and took pictures of the "545 stainless steel"... i really dont know what to think about the mark. Can you give a look? Your expertise sounds promising

Denis.



[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/cZykC**3/IMG-9608.jpg[/IMG]


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Old 05-24-2020, 02:58 AM
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Thank you everybody, i went back yesterday to the shop, i gave a fresh look on the 659, and after all you said, i decided to take it. I need a few weeks until administration will process my demand then it will be mine. Thank you very much again for you help. It is great to share passion with people like you.

Denis.

A few extra photos of the shiny diamond:







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Old 05-24-2020, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Your explanation sounds very smart. But then i went back to the shop, and took pictures of the "545 stainless steel"... i really dont know what to think about the mark. Can you give a look? Your expertise sounds promising

Denis.



[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/cZykC**3/IMG-9608.jpg[/IMG]


It's a 645 with a sloppy roll mark.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:52 AM
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Exactly. It's a Model 645, but the "6" is poorly stamped. The flaming bomb stamps are likely proof marks, often found on pistols manufactured in or imported into European nations.
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Old 05-24-2020, 04:10 PM
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That's a nice, clean example of a 659. I wouldn't have walked away from that. Congrats.
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:10 PM
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Nice. I would have grabbed it as well.

Plus it was used in one of Tarantino's better films.

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Old 05-25-2020, 01:48 AM
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Nice. I would have grabbed it as well.

Plus it was used in one of Tarantino's better films.

FYI, Reservoir Dogs is not an original Screenplay. I was a young movie journalist, everybody was congratulating Tarantino for his amazing story and screenplay. But while he was in France to get an award for this movie, as a big fan of HK movies, i confront him at the press itw in public, saying his movie was not only a remake but a copy/paste of the HK movie CITY ON FIRE.. The camera work, the screen play, the look of the gangsters, everything.. Then he agreed being maybe inspired by this movie.... Then the rumors goes public..

but it's an other topic..



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Old 05-25-2020, 11:41 AM
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FYI, Reservoir Dogs is not an original Screenplay. I was a young movie journalist, everybody was congratulating Tarantino for his amazing story and screenplay. But while he was in France to get an award for this movie, as a big fan of HK movies, i confront him at the press itw in public, saying his movie was not only a remake but a copy/paste of the HK movie CITY ON FIRE.. The camera work, the screen play, the look of the gangsters, everything.. Then he agreed being maybe inspired by this movie.... Then the rumors goes public..

but it's an other topic..



Tarantino's always been over rated.
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:41 AM
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It's too bad you have to go through all of that to own firearms there, but you have done well. The Model 27's can be a challenge and/or expensive to find in 5" and 6 1/2" barrels. Please post more about them in the Revolvers section as we would love to know and see more. Stories of guns acquired outside the US are pretty interesting to me.
Your 659 looks great! It seems very reasonably priced for the US, and even more so in a foreign market. Did you say it comes with box?
My only French firearm is a MAS 49/56 rechambered to .308. Built like a tank and really fun to shoot. I was even able to get an original French scope for it but need to get it sighted in.
You called out Tarantino! I love it. Great posts, thanks.
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Old 05-25-2020, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
Exactly. It's a Model 645, but the "6" is poorly stamped. The flaming bomb stamps are likely proof marks, often found on pistols manufactured in or imported into European nations.
All the weapons that are sold in Europe have to go through the Test Bank, if they are imported they also go through the test bench, the seal on that gun corresponds to a test bench in Belgium, that is, this weapon came from the United States. United it was exported to Belgium, there it was tested and approved for sale and at some point it was sent to France for Denis to enjoy.
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Old 05-25-2020, 05:34 PM
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It's too bad you have to go through all of that to own firearms there, but you have done well. The Model 27's can be a challenge and/or expensive to find in 5" and 6 1/2" barrels. Please post more about them in the Revolvers section as we would love to know and see more. Stories of guns acquired outside the US are pretty interesting to me.
Your 659 looks great! It seems very reasonably priced for the US, and even more so in a foreign market. Did you say it comes with box?
My only French firearm is a MAS 49/56 rechambered to .308. Built like a tank and really fun to shoot. I was even able to get an original French scope for it but need to get it sighted in.
You called out Tarantino! I love it. Great posts, thanks.
Hi, you can get my story with the 27-2 over here:

MODEL 27-2 5" 1975
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Old 05-25-2020, 06:51 PM
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Stories of guns acquired outside the US are pretty interesting to me.

you can get the explanations here:
HOW To get firearms in FRANCE
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Old 05-25-2020, 07:42 PM
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Tarantino's always been over rated.
I couldn't agree more. Most of his movies suck.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:09 PM
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I couldn't agree more. Most of his movies suck.
I really enjoyed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Undoubtedly because it's the least Tararintinolike of all his films.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:28 PM
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I really enjoyed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Undoubtedly because it's the least Tararintinolike of all his films.
I couldn't get into it. I turned off, about 30 minutes in.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:20 AM
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I GOT IT !

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Old 05-29-2020, 11:21 AM
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That looks awesome (félicitations), and I hope you enjoy it for many years!
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:33 PM
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Thats quite a nice looking model 659.
It's sure to give many years of service.
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Old 06-07-2020, 09:22 AM
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so happy..









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Old 06-07-2020, 09:38 AM
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Yesterday at the gunsmith, i heard a private collector is selling a part of his collection. A friend bought a 610-2 with original case, documentations.. etc etc.. with just a few rounds shots.. The gun is mostly un-used...850$USD !!

I heard the same person will sell soon a SW Model 59, that was never used.. with all orignal features (case, manual, documents etc..) I put my name on the list !
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:06 PM
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The 659 is in tip-top fantastic shape for sure! If it were mine, I would grab a set of (now out of production ) Uncle Mike's rubber grip panels. These are often found on Ebay and Gunbroker, run about $20 a set. Don't know if you can easily have them shipped to France or not.

I would choose these as they aren't too thick but they are extremely "grabby" and the original panels are not really grabby at all. Further, the original panels look to be dead mint -- and these show wear quickly. The originals look really nice but if you use them, they don't tend to stay very nice.

The .45cal S&W above, I will agree is a poorly stamped "6", it is a 645, and it appears to be wearing a replacement rear sight. That rear sight looks somewhat like a Model 745 but I can't be sure without different angles of pictures. My concern there would be about sight height and if the pistol shoots to point of aim. I believe there is a chance that the elevation would be "off" and that would not be an easy fix.
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  #35  
Old 06-19-2020, 05:44 AM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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Hello dear friends,

I have the opportunity to buy the grandad of the 659, the MODEL 39!!

It is a M39-2 8rounds (S/N A220382). I can get it for 728$USD

What do you think. It is a in perfect condition, no scratches, BUT it comes with no box, no instructions manuals.
Anything I should know ? year, details?
Should I go ?
Denis.
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  #36  
Old 06-19-2020, 05:57 AM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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some more photos of it...
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  #37  
Old 06-19-2020, 07:33 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Hello dear friends,

I have the opportunity to buy the grandad of the 659, the MODEL 39!!

It is a M39-2 8rounds (S/N A220382). I can get it for 728$USD

What do you think. It is a in perfect condition, no scratches, BUT it comes with no box, no instructions manuals.
Anything I should know ? year, details?
Should I go ?
Denis.
That would be way too much here in the states, but in France, that might be a good deal. I find that the 39/39-2/x39 pistols to be more comfortable in my hands than the double stack magazine pistols. I used to have a 39-2 and I currently have a 439. Accuracy was not really great with the 39-2 I had, but this 439 is reasonably accurate. Both were and have been reliable when it comes to functioning.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:02 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Hello dear friends,

I have the opportunity to buy the grandad of the 659, the MODEL 39!!

It is a M39-2 8rounds (S/N A220382). I can get it for 728$USD

What do you think. It is a in perfect condition, no scratches, BUT it comes with no box, no instructions manuals.
Anything I should know ? year, details?
Should I go ?
Denis.
Hello from Virginia. I've been working on a Model 39-2 that I inherited (see Mystery Upper ) and find it to be a really nice gun to shoot, and apparently it will carry well too. My next goal is to build a Model 639 that will be modified to suit me, much like the 39-2 but with a stainless steel frame. Since you've already found a nice stainless example in the 659, you've got that covered.

As for the Model 39 you have been offered, the price seems very high to me from the perspective of the American market, but when filtered through the lens of required reexamination and certification in the EU, I really can't make any kind of judgement. Is there anything in France like our Gun Broker auction site where you can gauge the going rates for guns you are interested in? These sites have become a great tool for us to judge market prices as well as a source for guns we are seeking.

Froggie
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Old 06-20-2020, 12:33 PM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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Hi, today i saw at my local gunsmith this weird M59 with blue frame....

Have you heard anything about that?
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  #40  
Old 06-20-2020, 12:53 PM
jsbethel jsbethel is offline
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Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Hi, today i saw at my local gunsmith this weird M59 with blue frame....

Have you heard anything about that?
It looks like a normal Model 59 to me.
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  #41  
Old 06-20-2020, 01:02 PM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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It looks like a normal Model 59 to me.
Take a closer look, it is really blue color!! Take a look on the logo!
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  #42  
Old 06-20-2020, 03:11 PM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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It is just blue!!
Never seen that on a m59
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  #43  
Old 06-20-2020, 03:28 PM
Old_Cop Old_Cop is offline
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Looks blue compared to the slide.
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Old 06-20-2020, 03:32 PM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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Btw i offered 600$ USD for the 39-2 that has been accepted!!! So i’ll wait for paperworks and i’ll get it soon.. ❤️��
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  #45  
Old 06-21-2020, 08:33 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Originally Posted by StarmanFR View Post
Hi, today i saw at my local gunsmith this weird M59 with blue frame....

Have you heard anything about that?
That is a standard, Model 59 finish. The Model 59 had only two factory finishes.
Blued carbon steel slide on a black anodized aluminum receiver. This was the standard finish.
Nickel plated carbon steel slide on a nickel plated aluminum receiver was offered as an extra cost option.

It is not possible to hot or cold blue aluminum, only carbon steel reacts with blueing salts. There is sometimes a little variation in the hue of S&W's black anodized aluminum receivers.

The blue in the logo on that particular example appears to be chalk or paint added by someone to highlight the logo.
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  #46  
Old 06-21-2020, 08:48 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Btw i offered 600$ USD for the 39-2 that has been accepted!!! So i’ll wait for paperworks and i’ll get it soon.. ❤️��
Well done! I would only insert a cautionary note at this point though; in Europe you may encounter some 9 mm ammo loaded especially for submachineguns. Avoid them! I’ve been reading reports of these more powerful rounds cracking the aluminum alloy frames of 39s... not a happy outcome!

Froggie
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Old 07-20-2020, 08:14 AM
StarmanFR StarmanFR is offline
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I BOUGHT IT !!!! I bought a nice 39-2. Any idea of the year. I can't find years details in Standard Catalogue.. S/N A220382

Accuracy is just exceptional see photo attached. The target is diameter 7,8“ and distance was 28yards.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:08 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Congratulations my friend, it looks like you got a very nice one. You will notice that your newly acquired 39-2 has a single-side safety (as most did.). The 659 with which you began this thread has the commonly available ambidextrous safety. This is a desirable feature in my view, but with a word of warning... that screw can back out and allow the right side lever to fall off and be lost. Don’t ask me how I know this! . I have been told to keep an eye on the ones on my 39-2 and 639 with a further suggestion that I use some sort of thread locker (removable) to prevent this unfortunate occurrence. I’m guessing that buying replacement S&W parts in France might prove difficult and expensive.

Regards,
Green Frog
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