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Old 05-19-2020, 11:09 AM
rosewood rosewood is online now
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Default 4013 mag issues

I purchased a 4053 a couple of years back and then found a 4013 a few months back. I had/have the intention on converting one to 10mm and the 4013 is the one I would like to do.

Every few rounds, the 4013 will throw the last round from the magazine out of the gun instead of chambering it. I have tried different recoil springs to slow the slide down. I have 4 magazines, one was still in the wrapper, all have had incidents of the last round jumping out. I put a new wilson +10 spring in one and put the stiffest springs on hand in the other 2. One of the 4 mags has the vertical crimp to guide the 40, the other 3 do not.

I still have the issue happening no matter what combination I have tried with springs. Odd thing is, had a friend shoot several rounds and it never did it with him. I am pretty sure I am not limp wristing, I am pretty big and strong and have never experienced limp wristing before in all my years of shooting.

Out of 8 Gen 3 S&Ws I own, this is the first one ever to have a reliability issue. 1076, 5903, 3913, 908, 4006, 6904 have always been flawless.

Through a few hundred rounds in the 4053, I have had it do it twice, but the 4013 is the one that does it regularly. Up to the last round the 4013 is 100% flawless, it is that last round that jumps out randomly. It makes me think magazine, but it does it with all 4 of them.

I actually sent in the 4013 to the mothership before I ever shot it to have the trigger play spring replaced.

Has anyone else had this issue with a 4013 or any other model? Have you been able to fix the problem?

I just hate having a 7 round gun with a live round on the floor, especially if I add it to the EDC rotation.

One other note: the 4013 is the fat guide rod single spring, the 4053 is the nested springs.

Rosewood

Last edited by rosewood; 05-19-2020 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:09 AM
rosewood rosewood is online now
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:27 AM
The_Truth The_Truth is offline
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The pragmatist in me is using simple logic to assert that extra power mag springs were not necessary and are now somehow shooting the last round up out of the chamber before it even has a chance to cycle, which is really weird.

This is why I don't change any springs in semi autos myself. My main concern is reliability. I feel like as soon as you change springs around if you don't know what you're doing you've totally changed the function of the pistol and now you're working backwards trying to fix an issue that probably didn't exist with stock springs.

Have you tried switching everything back to stock springs to see if you can replicate the issue? That's step one to finding the issue. Eliminate everything you've changed one by one until you figure out which component is the culprit and then go from there.

Don't just throw new springs at it.
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:48 AM
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OK,
Initially, I read the beginning of your post (and thread title) as you having a problem with one magazine

Later in your post, it reads as if you are having the same thing happen with ALL magazines

If the problem is the later, this is a firearm issue and not a magazine issue

If it is the former, then I would have expected you to have just tossed the magazine and forget about it
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Truth View Post
The pragmatist in me is using simple logic to assert that extra power mag springs were not necessary and are now somehow shooting the last round up out of the chamber before it even has a chance to cycle, which is really weird.

This is why I don't change any springs in semi autos myself. My main concern is reliability. I feel like as soon as you change springs around if you don't know what you're doing you've totally changed the function of the pistol and now you're working backwards trying to fix an issue that probably didn't exist with stock springs.

Have you tried switching everything back to stock springs to see if you can replicate the issue? That's step one to finding the issue. Eliminate everything you've changed one by one until you figure out which component is the culprit and then go from there.

Don't just throw new springs at it.
I only tried the stiffer springs after I had the issue to start with.

I have had the problem with the old springs and newer strong springs. Can't find rhyme or reason. I have tried back with the factory mag springs, factory recoil spring and all combinations of new springs and old springs.

Last edited by rosewood; 05-19-2020 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
OK,
Initially, I read the beginning of your post (and thread title) as you having a problem with one magazine

Later in your post, it reads as if you are having the same thing happen with ALL magazines

If the problem is the later, this is a firearm issue and not a magazine issue

If it is the former, then I would have expected you to have just tossed the magazine and forget about it
The 4013 has had rounds jump out with all 4 mags. I thought it was just this gun, but then I had it happen twice with the 4053, but only twice in hundreds of rounds.

Roseweood
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:44 PM
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I am starting to think maybe there is a design issue, was hoping someone else had run this rabbit before. Bluedot37 mentioned he had the issue in another post.

Rosewood
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Old 05-19-2020, 01:48 PM
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Thought maybe the slide was outrunning the mag. Figured a stiffer recoil spring would slow down the slide and a stiffer mag spring would let it stay ahead of the slide, but that didn't do the the trick.

Rosewood
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:47 PM
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Does the problem occur with all brands and types of ammo?

If it is only happening for you on two very similar pistols and none others, might it be your grip?

Not "limp wristing" but bumping the slide release with your thumb or something?

John
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
I am starting to think maybe there is a design issue, was hoping someone else had run this rabbit before. Bluedot37 mentioned he had the issue in another post.

Rosewood
I have a 1013 and a 1014 with no issues. However, I never test fired them with 40 Smith & Wesson ammunition before the conversions



The 40 Smith & Wesson ammunition would have the cartridge base sitting farther away from the back of the magazines. If this was only happeneing with a few mags, I would look at the shape of the feedlips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHL View Post
Does the problem occur with all brands and types of ammo?

If it is only happening for you on two very similar pistols and none others, might it be your grip?

Not "limp wristing" but bumping the slide release with your thumb or something?

John
Silly question rosewood, since this happens Very Frequently with the one auto loader, have you allowed other shooters to fire the same firearm?

Let us make sure that something in your grip is not a contributing factor
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:16 PM
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Yes, I mentioned it before. A friend shot several times, never did it with him. However, he didn't shoot as much as I do sometimes to get it to fail.

I am using my handloads. 165 grain about about 1050 I think.

I really have no idea if I am doing something wrong or if it is something else. Again, this only gun I have had this issue with and I shoot the 1076, 4006, 5903, 3913, 908 6904 and no issues at all.

Rosewood
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:24 AM
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The short answer: I can't say for certain.

First, I have two 4013(R3)s. The original (A) was shot a lot as a 40S&W, before any mods, & it never had any issues with the last round popping out.

The later one (B), was only shot minimally as a 40S&W & I don't recall it having that problem too, but again it was going to be converted to a 1013.

Initially I started using (A) but changed to (B) for the conversion.

Looking back in my "Genesis" conversion thread & notes I said this:

"I did have a live round stovepipe, on the last round, twice though. Odd since I didn't have any in the 1013(A) setup with over 100 rounds fired. Not sure why exactly?
.
Been wondering why last time I had those two live round stovepipes (but not before) & then I remembered that, besides installing the XP mainspring, I had changed to the stronger dual/nested recoil spring setup (instead of the GLC-22# flat wire). I'm guessing the forward impact from that stronger spring dislodged the last round ??"


So it would seem there's potentially something different between my two 4013 but I never went back to recreate the original setup in (A). (PS:I used the same converted mag for both tests.)

Since it's not a carry pistol I never got too much into the problem. As I've stated before the conversion has it's built-in quirks anyway & my factory 4040PD has done it too.

I do agree that if you get lax on your grip (especially as a 1013) that problem will show itself &/or be worse.

If you pursue it you might check the under surface of the slide for smoothness where the top round rides against it & also the bevel of the slide's lower breach face edge where it contacts the top round of the mag.

You could try something counter-intuitive & install a lighter weight recoil spring, &/or tightening the mag lips up a tad?

Converting it to 1013 isn't likely gonna help.

.
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Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 05-20-2020 at 03:26 AM. Reason: .
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