Purchased a 39-2 off Gunbroker for $572 + 25 shipping.

Advertised "This gun looks brand new and I still have the box and all the paperwork and the cleaning brush and the screwdriver..." with picture of very nice gun with matching S/N blue box.

Received a different gun with non-matching grey box, Gun has area on frame in front of trigger and on trigger gusrd where blueing is rubbed off down to bare metal and other signs of use.

Messaged seller and initial response (5/28) was "OK I think I figured out what I did wrong. You got the right gun by the serial numbers In the ad, but I put the wrong pictures in the ad. I’ll be happy to give you back your money and tomorrow I’ll figure out how to pick it up without costing you any money. If that’s ok with you." Sounds good I am OK with this.

But so far no action on sellers part to contact my FFL or set up return. I have messaged him several times askng status of return and even offered to take partial refund since cost of shipping an FFL plus return shipping may be significant.

SO QUESTION 1 - What is value of a used 39-2 with rub area down to bare metal but otherwise in decent used condition and rough non-matching box?

On doing more research, it turns out he sold 3 39-2 guns over a 2 week period using pictures of the same gun and similar description. GunBroker gives me the option of filing claim, but limit is $500, with $100 deductable, and does not cover shipping or FFL.

Latest response is Just Ship It Back, presumably at my expense, and direct to him, NOT to FFL

QUESTION 2 - What other suggestions / options?

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See attached pictures of 39-2 as advertised

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I’ve done many many buy sell trade online. Never had a problem. But as we all know, there are some bad people mixed in with the majority of honest. I didn’t know GB offers claims.

I would guess you could sell that for $450. I bought mine of GB a few months ago for about what you paid.

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Just hanging with my dogs

I wonder who this seller is. I bought a 429 a few years ago and the price seemed fair until a few months later I finally took it to the range and noticed it had an ambi safety and the right side walnut grip was for a pistol with a left side safety only.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

I guess its ok to post his Gunbroker Id - deals4u2 out of Byers, Co

My jerk was some hoser from Tennessee. Good luck with this.

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my mistake deal4u2 not deals4u2 - currently has 13 feedback including 2 very bad which were posted after I bought.

Thanks - My FFL said 350-450 but trying toget more input from people familiar with these guns. And if I had paid $450 for it instead of 572, i would probably be ok though I would have probably stopped bidding closer to $400

No I would not ship it back to him. I'd put a claim into Gunbroker for the difference in one like the photos of the one for sale and the $450.00.
If you send it back, you'll be out the gun and the money.

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SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC

Good point, I guess i am just too used to dealing with reputable companies rather than individuals - first time i have had a problem - guess most sellers are decent.

I would give the seller about 2 weeks to make the deal right - either a full refund including return shipping before sending the gun back, or a partial one based on the lower condition of the package. If he doesn't agree file a dispute with GB.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It appears to me that you have been scammed and that the seller is attempting to re-scam you by having you ship the gun back to him prior to sending you your refund. He deserves very bad feedback and public exposure in my opinion.

Were it me in your situation, I would file a claim with GB (....good luck with that), and then sell the gun with full disclosure, assuming that you wind up keeping it with some sort of settlement. Keeping it longer than necessary would trouble me whenever I held it. -S2

Looks like you did get ripped off. What you got is worth around $450. If it had come with the correct box with matching serial number, papers, and tools, it would be a $550-$600 set.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

This is a bait and switch. Like the old days of car dealerships, advertising a car too good to be true, and when you show up to see it, they tell you its sold and point you to a lesser value or condition car. You did not receive the item you paid for. The dealer is not working in good faith to resolve the matter. Contact GB and file a fraud complaint. If you like the pistol and want to keep it, but want compensation for it not being what you paid for, ask for a partial refund and state that will satisfy your complaint and will close it with GB as soon as you receive a refund and it clears the bank. Otherwise, let GB handle it. Make certain all your emails go through GB so they have record of it and can review the correspondence during their inquiry. Also leave feedback detailing your experience. I have refused to bid on guns I was interested in when I read their feedback and saw they weren't reliable.

So you would expect him to send refund check before i ship gun back? He seems to think it should be other way.

Also concerned about shipping back directly to seller who is not FFL. But he insists its ok since it was his gun originally.

I may be off base here, but it seems to me that unless you AND he are FFL's, then by sending the gun directly to him (assuming this is across state lines) you would be committing a felony. If so, then you could wind up in a highly troublesome situation with very little ability to ever recover your money. The gun has already been transferred to you via your FFL.

Best advise is to proceed with great caution and to let GB handle it to the extent possible. I am not a lawyer and have not stayed in a Holiday Express in quite a while. Good luck with this and please keep us posted. -S2

Yes, you sent him the funds, he sent you the (wrong) gun. To me turnabout is fair play; you get your money back first, and then he gets the gun.

If you send him your gun, he has it and your money - and unless he is more honest than he has been thus far he may keep both.

It's a handgun, presumably going across state lines, so it has to go to an FFL, period.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Do not under any circumstances ship it back to him without receiving your refund first. Also others are correct in saying that it needs to go to an FFL
If you ship direct to him if it’s across state lines you may very well receive an unpleasant visit from the local ATF office

I’d allow a reasonable amount of time for him to refund me and if not start proceedings through gunbroker.

It would be shipped from my FFL - and I told him I did not expect him to violate any laws. Finally got FFL info to go back, but seller does not trust me enough to send refund first - anyone used an Escrow service - Thinking of trying to get his FFL to do that.

So you're supposed to trust him to sell the gun he listed. sight unseen aside from the listing description and photos (on which he at least made a serious error), which you did - and now 'he' doesn't trust you to send the wrong gun back so you can get the refund you are owed? Sounds to me like a classic one-way street.

I would suggest the following - tell him when the gun is boxed and at your dealer, ready to go back. When he sends you a photo of the refund (by postal money order only) and the tracking number of the letter in which it is sent, have your FFL send it and forward him the package tracking number.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

His FFL has a website with positive reviews - thinking about using FFLs as escrow - getting him to give MO to his FFL. When his FFL has MO, my FFL sends gun and his FFL sends MO to me. Tracking both ways. His FFL holds gun til I receive MO and call his FFL to release gun.

I guess he never had to tell his FFL that the gun you received wasn't the one in the description/pictures. All his FFL knew was that he was shipping the one you received.

Sounds like he's kept his FFL in the dark.

Money orders can be cancelled. I wouldn't release the pistol until I had cash in hand.

Do Not ship to HIM. He is not an FFL and cannot legally receive it, and it is not " his gun" at this time. I have been an FFL since 1991. He must send the refund check for full price & shipping. You can ship it to his dealer, you do not need a FFL. If he is not agreeable contact GB, and have them get it right. It may take a week or so, but 2 weeks max. I would appreciate if you would PM me the link to the auction. If you still are having problems PM me. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

You do not need an FFL to send it to his FFL, also he needs to pay the shipping. You are not returning it because you did not "Like it", but because he sent you the wrong gun. If the seller will not refund you with out doing an escrow, contact GB immediately. You can not let someone like this to continue. Be Safe.

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I just looked his auction for Mosi-Nagant. 870061940 This is in the item description---
[Just a reminder. I’m not going to sell this gun. If you bid on the gun I’m not going to complete the transaction] What planet is this guy from? I would also talk to some Fed agencies unless he makes it right. Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

If his and your dealer are agreeable this would work. If he insists you can take photos of the gun being put into the shipping box as proof on your end.

What a mess. Hope this gets resolved.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

You probably used the USPS to mail funds to him so get the USPS Postal Inspectors involved since postal fraud has occurred. I had a similar problem where funds were sent but items never shipped. I got the USPS Postal Inspectors involved and within 2 months I was getting frantic letters from the seller about shipping the items as he was being threated with prison time. Items arrived with in a week and I called off the inspectors.

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Bill

Good point, if you sent funds via the post office, then a mail fraud charge may be possible. A couple of decades ago I had to do just that with an eBay seller. I sent a check via the U.S. Mail, he never sent me the item. He claimed he did and it went to the wrong address and the recipient refused to return the item. I sent him a registered mail letter telling him that I was preparing to file a mail fraud claim. He quickly returned my money.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Actually its worse than that. He shipped direct to my FFL. Wanted me to ship back directly to him but finally got FFL to handle return for no charge to him. Also on his shipment to me the S&W box logo was exposed so it was apparent it was a gun.

Bigboy99 and stansdds have a great point, if you still have the shipping box that’s evidence the postal service was used. Go have a chat with your friendly postal inspectors. They would be more than happy to assist you, especially since a firearm was involved.

Mail fraud carry’s a hefty sentence. If convicted he will do time. I’ve seen plenty go through the U S District Courts.

Looks like a nice 39-2 to me. OK you didn't get what you
thought, but save yourself a lot of aggravation and just keep it.
If you really can't stand it, then sell it again yourself. Not worth
all the aggravation with the original seller and GB. Yes, he might
have gotten over on you, but is it worth it in the end?

Bad vibes every time i handled gun. And if its a $450 gun why should i take a $122 or probably worse hit incl my costs to sell.

I am $572 +25 shipping +20 FFL = 617 into it.

Willing to sell to anyone here for $572 plus 25 shipping to your FFL and be done with it. See first pictures i posted. Its not a bad gun just a sour taste every time i see it.

Ace,

Give it some time and see if the seller comes thru. (either with
a partial refund, or a complete return) However, if he doesn't,
then think out your alternatives.

You're pretty close to the going price on a nice 39-2. Sometimes
deals are great, and other times, not so much. JMHO I wouldn't
go crazy over it. I'd never send the pistol back before I had the
money, no matter who is involved (FFL's or escrow or whoever)
The seller doesn't seem willing to accommodate you. Unless he
makes a drastic turn, I'd write it off and move on. I realize you'll be out over 100, but is it worth it?

File the bait and switch grievance thru GB. Insist he send you the funds. Then send him back some used concert tickets or a pair of sneakers.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

I’m a sheep dog always have been always will be. Others are sheep. The seller is a coyote that will prey on others if not stopped.

I think that mail fraud may require showing intent. Not 100% sure. In other words, it may not be enough to show you did not get what you thought, you might have to present evidence of "intent to defraud".

Also, if you agree to buy a firearm without using the proper procedure and forms and FFL transfer agent, you may have some legal issues, depending on where you live. At a minimum, law enforcement may keep the gun in question for an extended amount of time. You may not want to open that can of worms. In the worst case, the authorities might keep it as an illegally obtained firearm, and leave you to argue over the money with the seller.

Overall, getting a refund through the auction site may be the best, and most expedient option. I bet they have a process for settling issues that require refunds.

Thanks for responses. Have filed thru GunBroker "Not as advertised". Would still prefer straight return / refund but agree if he does not trust me enough to send refund first, then I have even less reason to send gun first and trust him to send refund.

Sorry for your misfortune.

I actually spent some time finding the seller, put him in my searches, and then looked at his reviews. 15 sales with two bad reviews. That’s like over 13% negative.

I could not find your sale, maybe it was removed? I’m assuming you might be Dave176? The seller seems to be a nasty angry person when confronted with his short comings. Hopefully he won’t be able to continue on GB.

Unfortunately even a few of the more trusted/established sellers on GB sometimes fall short of what we expect integrity wise. I called nonsense when someone here suggested “shill bidding” going on with a VERY established, (and one I’ve personally dealt with,) business/seller. I even stood up for them. I know for a fact that the person commissioning a particular pistol kept bidding in every last 15 min over and over. Obviously that raised his end profit AND the the profit for the expected honest/trustworthy seller. He was not the end high bid but it closed much higher than it would have had he not been allowed to bid on his own pistol. Kinda sucks but I guess it’s acceptable.

For the most part I think GB and others are a good resource when we can’t find what we want locally but unfortunately there are a few sellers that just should not still be in business.

Jim

Be prepared for a long and frustrating experience with GB's claim process.
I sent a seller a cashiers check for $500 for a purchase and that was the last I heard from him. No pistol and no communication, he vanished with my money. I filed a GB claim and, after 6 months, I received my $400 from GB. There was no communication, they ignored my follow up emails, and there is no way to get someone on the phone.
The process works, but you have to be patient.

When i bid he did not have any negative feedback. If i had seen those 2 negatives and his response i would have never bid on his gun.

I have not posted feedback pending resolution. Still hoping for some way to get refund and return gun.

If you look at his past sales you will find he sold 3 S&W 39-2 over a 3 week period using pictures of the same gun. Mine was first of 3 and you have to do some photo enhancement to pick out SN on gun but it is same as box and other 2 sales.

He has accused me of trying to con him out of gun for cheap when i offered partial refund option. So i think your assessment is on target.

Hi ACEd:

Sorry for your misfortune here. Just curious if you made payment with a credit card? If so, you might consider contacting the credit card company for their help. I’ve had to do this a few times in my life and they always came through for me.

Good luck,

Dave

That's a pretty brutal experience. I've bought several times from GB with good results, hope my luck holds!
But, this is the reason I always use a CC if possible, as Double-O-Dave says they can help you by putting a hold on the funds until it's resolved.
More often, sellers don't take CC payments, in that case, I use USPS Money Orders for additional attention from the USPS postal inspectors. I understand they are even more hardcore if someone commits fraud via the mail AND when a USPS MO is involved.
In addition, I send the MO certified mail, return receipt requested. That way there's a trail and a signature, if someone want to play games, you have a lot of documentation to work with. I realize it's a PITA do have to go to the Post Office to do all this (just remember to not have your EDC with you!), but that's a lot less effort than having to go through this.

This is first significant problem I have had thru GunBroker - hoping they come thru - maybe arbitrate a return / refund with some assurance.


As to your advice, I agree - lesson learned - I used personal check as he only had that and MO option at the time and with Covid, I was trying to avoid going to Post Office.


Thanks for advice, Ed

That would be a great plan, but I had a similar experience and from what I went through, I wouldn't expect anything out of Gunbroker. After I filed a claim I got a couple of emails asking questions and suggested I try to work it out with seller. After answering them at least 4 times that I had tried with no results, they sent a request to seller to refund my money and of course he refused. I didn't hear back or get any response from GB for at least 3 months after that and then only asking if we had settled and could they close the claim. I responded NO and I wanted to request the $500 they promised on the website. Never heard another word. I hope the OP has a better experience than I did with GB

I had a similar experience with an order for a Romanian Tokarev TTC, only worse because the seller didn't even give me the option to return it, so I'm just making the most of it.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Thank you for sharing your painful story. I take it as a warning. I've been watching a desirable piece on a auction sight but the seller has no recent feedback within 2 years, wants a MO only and no returns accepted. I just gotta pass on that one, and it looks like no one else is taking the hook either.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

Must be something in the water. I’ve never had a problem on GB, but I haven’t bought anything on it since pre-corona, either.

Buy stuff all the time off of eBay, and still do. Not many problems there, either, until post-corona. All of a sudden, US based companies are marking my stuff as shipped, then provide no tracking, invalid tracking, or never moves beyond the label getting printed.

At first, I figured it was honest mistakes, but when I never got a reply from the seller, I had to get eBay involved. Now, I just start with eBay’s resolution center from the start. Same story, money taken, item never gets here. No way to track it. No response from seller.

The vast majority of my transactions still go perfect, but this thing about taking money for misrepresented or completely nonexistent items online is just becoming part of the day to day.

Yours is a lot bigger than any of mine, though. Hope it gets taken care of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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-Dan-

Possible ideas?
Contact the seller and explain mail fraud as a federal issue.
Contact GB, file a complaint, and discuss mail fraud since they would be involved in the process.
Save photos of the gun advertised, the ad attached and photos of the gun you received.
Document, document, document.