Hello Everyone. I have a colt Classic 1911 in .45acp and a Colt Gold cup in.45 acp and I love them. I am thinking of adding to my .45 acp collection with a DA/SA pistol, either a S&W 4506 or a Sig P220. I would like any input that you may have with either the sig or the S&W. Which one do you prefer? Thanks.
Ray

Here's a vote for the Sig, have had two of them.

I shoot a Sig P-6.
The old timers here know this pistol.
Maybe one of them will comment on it.

Here's one thing to consider: The 4506 is no longer in production, and hasn't been for several years, the P220 is still in production. I've seen posts here and other forums talking about the difficulty of finding parts and magazines for 3rd Gen, and older, S&W semi-autos. With the P220 still in production, one should still be able to get parts, magazines, and factory service if needed, not to mention aftermarket accessories.

So I would go with the P220. But there are other reasons, too. 3rd Gen S&W semi-autos don't fit my hand well. I don't like their slide-mounted safeties. If this could be a carry gun, the P220 will be noticeably lighter.

Just my opinion.

If it's to be a age queen/ range toy, I'd go with the 4506 or 4566. The Sigs are still in production, but good examples of the 3rd Gen S&W are getting to be somewhat rare. Parts, mags, etc. are out there to be found, just not as readily as the same items for the Sig.


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The SIG P220 is one of the finest combat handguns that has ever been designed

It has been manufactured in seven different calibers, 5 different barrel lengths and is available as an alloy frame or a stainless frame.

It has been available as a Traditional Double Action or a Single Action Only pistol
The design originated in the mid 1970s and it has been in continuous production and service with Law Enforcement and Military personnel around the world for 44 years and counting.

While the standard versions are very accurate, target grade versions of the P220 have also been manufactured

There is even a currently manufactured 22LR top end for the pistol available with or without a threaded barrel for suppressor use

That basic P220 design has been spun off into the P226, P228 and P229 pistols, the compact P225/P6 9MM followed by the P227 wide body, 10 round 45ACP pistol

The 4506 is a very nice production Smith and Wesson pistol

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"Acta non verba"

Funny thing is I dumped my 1911s years ago, not a fan, but I kept my CS-45, because I am a .45 ACP fan. And a TDA fan. So I just recently decided I needed a service sized .45 ACP pistol in the stable and I ran across the SAR K2 c. It's made in Turkey, it's heavy and built like a tank, and far less cost than a much sought after S&W 4506 or a SIG P-220. It's not cheap junk, it's inexpensive but solid, even my jaded FFL was impressed by it. It's definitely not a concealment weapon, not for me, anyway. But I think it will be a great gun and I'll have a range report someday soon.

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Come and take it!!

Our members make a very persuasive case for the Sig.

But this IS a Smith & Wesson Forum, after all.

John

While there have been some valid points made above, like still in production, the Sig series has some "issues" particularly if you're used to the 1911.

First, the Sig couples a (to me) short, heavy double action pull with a short, light single action pull. While you can learn to live with it, Jeff Cooper invented the "crunchenticker" moniker for TDAs when Sig was pretty much the only game in town. It fits. A fast, well placed, controlled pair is going to require a significant learning curve. I've never tried one, but I've heard a lot of very good things about Sigs DAO versions of various models. I don't know if this would interest you or it's available on the 220, but it does eliminate the point raised above.

Secondly, for a 1911 user, the slide release is where you're used to finding the safety. I struggled with the above 2 points during our service pistol trials in 1992.

Third, at the 25 yard barricade, the 220 literally beat me (my hands) bloody.

Strictly from an esthetics standpoint, the breech block pinned in a sheet metal slide by a roll pin really isn't a good fit with the price point. IMO

If you look around, you might find some other option that you might like better.

I agree with our members, buy the Sig; Model 4506's are hard enough for us to find as it is. You can impress all your European friends and show your global outlook!

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I vote for the Sig. I had a p220 (original design) some years ago and sold it to a buddy. I now have a p220 Compact SAS and will not be selling it. I think that the P220 has pretty much any 3rd gen S&W out classed, but I may be prejudiced.

Good luck in your search.

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On the Oak Savannah

Personally, if it were me, then I would get the S&W 4506.

Sure, the SIG P220 is still in production, but the 4506 is a nicer firearm, is built like a tank, parts still seem to be readily available in spite of the fact that the gun itself is out of production, and there are police trade-in 4506s which tend to sell for significantly less than the P220.

If you were intending to use this as a carry gun, then I would begrudgingly suggest the P220 over the 4506, but you aren't, so 4506 all the way.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I shot a few hundred rounds through both a Sig 220 and a 4506-1 before deciding.

Accuracy and reliability were a wash, for me. Both were exceedingly accurate with no malfunctions using our duty ammo, RA45T.

But I did not like the recoil pulse I got in the palm of my hand shooting the Sig. The 4506-1 is more pleasant to shoot and being heavier than the Sig is a more stable shooting platform, for me.

I chose the 4506-1 and never looked back. I am still using one today. Never broke....anything. Good luck with your decision! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I’ve owned and carried both as duty guns - Sig P220 all the way. To my mind the Sig is a step above the 4506. It’s lighter, I liked the Sig’s sights and ergonomics, no silly magazine safety, etc. Overall I think the Sig P series in general is much more refined than the Smith autos.

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213th FBINA

My vote is for the P220, I have a Sig Sauer made in Germany in 1993 and it never failed me.

If I was collecting or just wanted a range toy? 4506, they're out of production and are only going to get more expensive and hard to find parts for. For serious use I'd probably go with a P220 since they still are in production and have a rail.

How do they shoot? Pretty accurate? Thanks
Ray

I'm not a fan of the P220. I much prefer my Smiths and my Ruger

Model 645



Model 4506-1



Model 4566



Model 4566TSW



Model 4566TSW



Model P345

I've never handled a Sig P220, but have shot other Sigs in the past, and my preference is the 4506 (or any other TDA S&W 3rd Gen) over Sigs. They fit my hand better, have the same manual of arms as the Beretta 92, are reliable, accurate, and pretty fun to collect.

Mags and parts are out there for the 4506 still, and honestly in terms of parts the only ones you'll probably need are recoil springs and maybe a new guide rod (I'd recommend a BMCM custom 1-piece). As has been mentioned, these guns are built like tanks.

My experience with non-M1911 .45 cal. pistols began with a Glock 21. Bought it and took it to the range. After the second magazine I decided it had to go back and become a down-payment on some other .45 cal handgun. I came home with a Sig P220. I liked it so much, there are now a P220 in the bedroom, in my truck and in the workshop!

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Bill

Thanks Everybody for your responses. I appreciate them. I am having a problem with my computer responding to everyone but I do appreciate your help.
Ray

I like the Rugers and Smiths so much I just pulled the trigger on a P90DC.

To me, the Ruger P345 does everything the Sig P220 does without the massive hit in the wallet. The P345 weighs less than the P220. Both are 8+1 capacity. Both have accessory rails. Both still have factory support.

A good conditioned used P345 is a hell of a steal right now. The damn thing is the size of a Commander 1911 and weighs less than the S&W Scandium framed guns.

P220 for sure. One of the best guns on the planet.

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I love 1911s but this one is the very best 45 I own, no other can touch it. It is a now obsolete SSE. DA/SA trigger is spectacular, never a FTF and just stunning accuracy. The target was set up at 20 yards, 3 long mags full, 30 rounds in one giant hole. I drifted the rear sight a little after that. I forgot: The economics are fantastic too.

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You can probably guess from my screen name which way I’ll vote.

I carried a Sig P220 for 25 years as a FBI agent. It was unfailingly reliable and accurate.

I like the 4506, but the two guns really aren’t in the same class.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Lots of great arguments for both the Sig and the Smith.

Here's my two cents, based on what I've learned carrying a 4506 as a duty gun.

It's an amazing gun. Reliable, accurate, and with practice easy to use. As others have mentioned, parts are hard to find but not at all impossible. If you commit to it you'll find what you need. LAPD does not authorize the P220, so the 4506 is the only one out of the two I can carry. I say that to assure you that you can make it work with either choice. Sig's are great guns as wel, a friend of mine has a West German P220 and It's an outstanding shooter. It's a close call between the two.

I would say it would come down to shooting them both. Whichever feels better and works best for you should be your choice. I shoot a 4506 better than a Glock because the grip and angle works for me, I pick up the front sight faster. Once I over came the double action trigger it was a no brainer.

Best wishes to you and your search.

Personal preference is just that, personal preference. If owning a Ruger P345 makes you happy that’s all that matters, no further explanation is needed.

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213th FBINA

Another vote for the Sig P220. I have several : 45ACP, 10mm and 38 Super.

I have both a 645, & a 220. But my 220 says “Made in W. Germany”. Big difference between that one, & what they sell now. Their guns have cheapened over the years. So to choose between a 645/4506, & a newer Exeter Sig, the S&W wins hands down. But if the Sig says Made in W. Germany, or Made in Germany, its a toss up. My Sig was imported in Herndon Va, before Exeter was ever in the picture. I’ve owned it since 1988. GARY

GLOCK 30
SF (Short Frame)
Subcompact
.45 Auto
Mag. Capacity
10 Rounds in the Clip.

I've never shot the Smith, but do like the Sig 220. In general, every Smith vs Sig I've done the edge goes to Sig. Either will work, I just like Sigs a little better. There's also the part about the Sig still being in production. I also have a few P series Rugers. Rugers are rugged guns, they just aren't in the same class as the Smith & Sig. The P345 is also no longer in production.

I’ve owned & shot both & I prefer the 4506. I HATED the P220s loooong DA trigger & the reset in SA was just as bad. I think Sigs are nice guns, & have owned a couple a couple different models, But I’ve hated every DA/SA Sig I’ve tried. I could never get over how long the trigger pull & resets were. The 4506 DA is nice & there’s hardly no trigger reset in SA.

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate it very much. My computer will not allow me to answer everyone, so I am posting this reply. I tried to find a S&W 4506 but I could not find one, so I started looking for a Sig P220. The only P220s I could find were overpriced legions, carry models (I wanted a full size), some with contrast sights (I wanted night sights) and NOS all north of $1100. I did find a like new P227 in .45 acp at a reasonable price and I did purchase it. The P227 is just a P220 with a slightly wider body to accomodate the 10 round clip. So I am happily awaiting its arrival. I will keep you posted. Thanks again!

Just remember, ... Sonny Crockett preferred big-bore S&Ws over Euro guns.

I'm sure that'll make the decision easier.

I've had a couple P220s. An all stainless and a W. German folded slide model. Both were incredibly reliable and accurate. I sold the all stainless model a few years ago. The folded slide model and my German frame P226 will probably stay with me to the end.

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Dance like no one is watching.

Sent you a PM.

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Dance like no one is watching.

But...but...but......GERMAN ENGINEERING!

Yeah, I too had one of the last "Made in W.Germany' P220s in the collection for years and just never shot it much. Picked it up back in 1990 or so.

Got waaay more than I paid for it when I put it on consignment sale last year at the LGS. Gone one day after hitting the 'pre-owned' shelf.

So clearly there are folks who keep an eye out for the older Sig P220s.

I am a huge fan of the P220, but the trigger on even a cheap 1911 is preferable. SA guns are often better in the trigger department. Personally, I prefer DA/SA semi-auto pistols, and I've learned to be fairly proficient with the Sig through using it. The SRT on my newer one is an improvement. My old West German P220 has the stamped slide and pinned breech block. The gun has been totally reliable, and solid as a rock. As far as aesthetics go, I'm not sure why that would even be an issue. Shoot what you like and like what you shoot.

My .02. go with the SIG. They are fine guns, pricy yes, but you get what you pay for. I have owned a several of their different "P" models but I will be buried with my 220. I joined this forum because of my love for old S&W revolvers.

Actual answer: get both

Question settled

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

I went through all models of Colt 1911s from about 1980 to 88/89..... when I got a W. German Sig 220....... it will shoot cloverleafs at 50ft.... because of weight and the DA first shot I moved away from the 1911 as my .45 carry gun.... to the Sig 220 with Hogue checkered wood grips.

Jumping ahead about 5 years I got a Sig245 compact version of the 220..... also a great gun and easier to carry concealed..... 6+1 and a 3.9" barrel.

Today I still have two 220s, the W German gun and an all steel "Earnest Langdon model" ( see colt_saa's post #6; 6th pictured two tone gun) and two 245s.

Over the years I also owned a 4506 and 4505..... neither lasted long just too big and heavy for my needs............ that said I still have and really like the S&W 4566......................

I cannot remember the last time I saw a police trade-in 4506.

My vote would be for a 4566 or 4586.
When I was looking for a 4506 all I could find was a 4566 and a 4586.
I bought the 4566 over the 4586 based purely upon the difference in condition between the two examples I found for sale locally.
Both felt great, and I really liked the DAO trigger of the 4586, but its exterior was rough.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

The fact that the 220 seems to be winning on a S&W Board should tell you something. I'm not a big Sig fan, but the 220 blows any of the metal frame smith autos out of the water, in practically every way.

I have both, and they are both great guns. It's easier to find mags, holsters, parts/accessories for the Sig P220. My P220 hates steel case ammo (not that I use steel much, but during an ammo drought, you get what you can find). My 4506 eats everything. Personally, I shoot the Sig better.

I vote, get both over time. That's what I did after my 1911 and ACP revolver itchs were scratched.

Neither one are fun or easy to carry, there are other, smaller 45s for that.

And Sonny Crockett is looooong gone. Ancient history.

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213th FBINA

Sonny Crockett, or the director/prop guy? GARY

He also wore white suits with paisley t-shirts and shoes without socks.