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08-06-2020, 04:21 PM
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'Clean' 645 ... What's it worth?
So my gunsmith @ the LGS sees all the consignment guns that come in, and he'll keep an eye out for something I'm interested in (if he happens to remember what that is)
This morning he calls me with a 'heads-up' that a ' REALLY clean' S&W 645 just arrived in the shop, along with six other firearms from the same estate.
How clean? I ask.
Very clean, he replies, inside and out. 'The internals look clean enough to eat off of.' ... He adds: 'If the owner ever put two boxes of rounds thru it, I'd be surprised.' He also said it was 'very dry' and needed to be lubed good.
Okay, I say, ''hold it for me but shoot me a picture,' which he did. See below.
Other details: one 8-rd mag, with orange follower and steel floorplate. No factory box or papers.
A TBR- prefix on the serial #. Not sure if that signals it's an early or late production model.
Pricing hasn't been set yet, but will be when I get over there on Saturday. They're backed up on all sorts of consignment guns right now, and my 'smith is the only guy working there who might know what an out-of-production 645 should sell for.
Looking for opinions here from the 2nd Gen 645 experts in case I need to whine and haggle ...
What's a fair price (at least ballpark)?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Last edited by Frank Black; 11-25-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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08-06-2020, 04:39 PM
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TAK was the first group made so TRB is not far behind. The gun looks very clean, I'd say $650.
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08-06-2020, 05:26 PM
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Looks pretty clean.
Five would be a good price. And if I really wanted it I could probably see to six bills. I doubt if I would go higher than that. There are still a lot of them around. I bought one a couple of years ago for four bills. It had two magazines but also a fair amount of cosmetic wear.
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08-06-2020, 06:27 PM
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The seller has to set a price to the store manager when the gun is accepted for consignment. You wouldn’t want to offer $200 more than the seller wants, would you? That’s why when the customer says “what will you pay for this gun”, the instant reply is “how much do you want for it”. So find out what he wants first. A while back a guy wanted $500 for a mint, no box 645. I offered him $400, but told him since he just put it for sale, to try & get $500, but my offer would still stand. A month later, he asked me if I’d still offer $400. I said come on over. After I paid him, he told me his highest offer was $300. GARY
Last edited by N4KVE; 08-06-2020 at 06:30 PM.
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08-06-2020, 07:32 PM
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Fair Price
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
So my gunsmith @ the LGS sees all the consignment guns that come in, and he'll keep an eye out for something I'm interested in (if he happens to remember what that is)
This morning he calls me with a 'heads-up' that a 'REALLY clean' S&W 645 just arrived in the shop, along with six other firearms from the same estate.
How clean? I ask.
Very clean, he replies, inside and out. 'The internals look clean enough to eat off of.' ... He adds: 'If the owner ever put two boxes of rounds thru it, I'd be surprised.' He also said it was 'very dry' and needed to be lubed good.
Okay, I say, ''hold it for me but shoot me a picture,' which he did. See below.
Other details: one 8-rd mag, with orange follower and steel floorplate. No factory box or papers.
A TRB- prefix on the serial #. Not sure if that signals it's an early or late production model.
Pricing hasn't been set yet, but will be when I get over there on Saturday. They're backed up on all sorts of consignment guns right now, and my 'smith is the only guy working there who might know what an out-of-production 645 should sell for.
Looking for opinions here from the 2nd Gen 645 experts in case I need to whine and haggle ... What's a fair price (at least ballpark)?
Thanks in advance for the help!
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$600-$650 is fair. Less is a steal.
Best,
Gary
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08-06-2020, 07:56 PM
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At 645 doesn't even look like it's seen a holster or anybody's hand. WOW.
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08-06-2020, 08:03 PM
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TBW 69xx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Cop
TAK was the first group made so TRB is not far behind. The gun looks very clean, I'd say $650.
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My 6450 which is marked 645, is serial #TBW69xx , and was mfg Aug. 1988.
Best,
Gary
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08-06-2020, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-22
My 6450 which is marked 645, is serial #TBW69xx , and was mfg Aug. 1988.
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So the born-on date for this TBR-prefix 645 would be, ... like 1987? Early 1988?
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08-06-2020, 10:45 PM
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TBN here. 1988.
Agreed $550.00-$650.00.
Jim
Last edited by 4T5GUY; 08-06-2020 at 10:49 PM.
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08-07-2020, 07:48 AM
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That Model 645 appears to be either unfired outside of the factory or fired and really babied. I picked up one last year for $425, but it was from a store manager that I have known for decades and he commented that whoever put it in the display case with that price tag on it was in trouble. The one I picked up did not have original stocks and showed a few scratches and signs of being used. For the one pictured at the top of this thread, I'd say $600 would be a reasonable price, if you get it for less, consider yourself lucky.
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08-07-2020, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4T5GUY
TBN here. 1988.
Agreed $550.00-$650.00.
Jim
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Okay, thanks! ...
So, I'm thinking a 'TBR'- prefix puts this 645 puts near the end of the run for the model, before the 3rd Gen. 4506s replaced them (?).
Last edited by Frank Black; 08-07-2020 at 08:49 AM.
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08-07-2020, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds
That Model 645 appears to be either unfired outside of the factory or fired and really babied. I picked up one last year for $425, but it was from a store manager that I have known for decades and he commented that whoever put it in the display case with that price tag on it was in trouble. The one I picked up did not have original stocks and showed a few scratches and signs of being used. For the one pictured at the top of this thread, I'd say $600 would be a reasonable price, if you get it for less, consider yourself lucky.
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NIB or LNIB ... So it appears.
Quick update. My 'smith has it squirreled away in a safe in his shop.
Going out to see it and field-strip it with him later today.
I'll post back here on what I find ... and if I bought it, or stole it.
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08-07-2020, 09:52 AM
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That a great looking 645.
Anything thing less than $625 is a good price.
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08-07-2020, 09:48 PM
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645
My TBT has a ship date of 5/23/88. I agree 600-650 is a fair price, but...... One in fair condition went for 725 on gunbroker last week, and one in vgc is at 785 in the bidding right now.
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08-07-2020, 10:33 PM
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One thing that I should have mentioned was fact that “someone” here responded to a post I started. It was about how much a 645 was going for on GB a few years ago. I was actually put in the Forum “posters prison” for bringing it up even though I was vague.
His response was that “he was told” it would cost S&W OVER $1,200.00 to produce the 645 now. That is IF they even COULD produce it today.
Great and historic S&W .45 acp.
Jim
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08-08-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrott
Five would be a good price. And if I really wanted it I could probably see to six bills. I doubt if I would go higher than that. There are still a lot of them around. I bought one a couple of years ago for four bills. It had two magazines but also a fair amount of cosmetic wear.
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There may still be 'a lot of 645s around,' but not in this condition.
I'll supply details later, and hopefully a couple of more pics.
Last edited by Frank Black; 08-08-2020 at 07:23 AM.
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08-08-2020, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4T5GUY
One thing that I should have mentioned was fact that “someone” here responded to a post I started. It was about how much a 645 was going for on GB a few years ago. I was actually put in the Forum “posters prison” for bringing it up even though I was vague.
His response was that “he was told” it would cost S&W OVER $1,200.00 to produce the 645 now. That is IF they even COULD produce it today.
Great and historic S&W .45 acp.
Jim
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A price tag of $1200 or more for S&W to reintroduce the Model 645 does not surprise me. Small parts can be produced using MIM technology, but receivers and slides are still milled from blocks of forged stainless steel. The milling process is time consuming and most of those steel blocks end up as metal shavings. Couple that with how stainless dulls cutters faster than aluminum or carbon steel and the cost of manufacturing goes higher. It's much cheaper to mold the receiver from polymer and embed small bits of steel in the critical areas.
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08-08-2020, 09:51 AM
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645
Sorry to get off track but wouldn't it be cool if Smith did this in blued steel, a la 1911 and model 39 has a a child?
P.S. I payed 600.00 for mine last year, box, papers, 2 factory mags, and the topotheline fully shielded adj. read sights. Didn't get the factory rubber grips though. Like so many do the original owner put on wood grips and pitched the rubbers.
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08-08-2020, 12:04 PM
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Here in Montana the 645 would be a $4/500.00 dollar gun.
In the world of single stack .45 acp's the 1911 still dominates.
Randy
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08-08-2020, 01:17 PM
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I'm not a collector. I carried one in the past as a duty gun. I'd look at 450 to 475 but would want to be out the door at 450 tops. I don't claim my feelings represent the market, just my opinion of them as a duty gun. For the range or carry I'd prefer a 1911. It would make a fine truck gun.
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08-08-2020, 04:17 PM
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I carried a 6450 from early 1988 till I Retired in 1999...It was a 4506 Top on a 645 Frame... The only issue I had was during a Qual, The ambi safety Lever and Plunger disappeared from the right side of the Slide... S&W overnighted the part that took 10 seconds to install......It was a big, heavy Gun that commanded attention .....Police Price was $451 from Jones Equipment, in Hollywood including 3 extra Mags And Pachmayr Grips.
Last year, a Collector wanted it, as only 150 6450’s were produced, .. For the standard 645 in 95% with box and papers and two mags, ballpark around $600. ...Mags were updated to Yellow followers, and marked on the Mags.
You can call S&W @ 1-800-331-0852 and they will advise date of mfg. if you give them the Serial number.
Last edited by Mike 139; 08-09-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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08-08-2020, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-22
My 6450 which is marked 645, is serial #TBW69xx , and was mfg Aug. 1988.
Best,
Gary
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What exactly is a 6450? My 645 serial is TBW67XX. First owner put 50 rounds thru it and I did another 50. He couldn’t hit with it so I gave him $500 for it. Mine has the adjustable sights.
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08-09-2020, 07:09 AM
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A few pics ...
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08-09-2020, 07:10 AM
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Just as the 'smith had said, it's 'clean enough to eat off.'
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08-09-2020, 07:11 AM
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Another view ...
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08-09-2020, 07:19 AM
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Two more ...
The bore was pristine. Nice crown.
There was very little wear on the contact surfaces where the stainless barrel and slide reciprocate. And what little amount you could see could've been done by hand-cycling, as the breech-face and extractor were also free of visible contact wear from the repeated cycling of brass casings.
My initial thought was: the 'smith was right. If the original owner ever put two boxes of shells through it, you couldn't tell. There was only a little bit what looked like old soot on the orange follower in the magazine. No scratches on the body of the magazine either, nor on the gun.
Given the condition, it had been stored well somewhere, which made me wonder why the original factory box and papers hadn't come in with the gun (?)
Last edited by Frank Black; 08-09-2020 at 07:24 AM.
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08-09-2020, 08:16 AM
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The suspense is killing us.
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08-09-2020, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
Two more ...
The bore was pristine. Nice crown.
There was very little wear on the contact surfaces where the stainless barrel and slide reciprocate. And what little amount you could see could've been done by hand-cycling, as the breech-face and extractor were also free of visible contact wear from the repeated cycling of brass casings.
My initial thought was: the 'smith was right. If the original owner ever put two boxes of shells through it, you couldn't tell. There was only a little bit what looked like old soot on the orange follower in the magazine. No scratches on the body of the magazine either, nor on the gun.
Given the condition, it had been stored well somewhere, which made me wonder why the original factory box and papers hadn't come in with the gun (?)
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I hope you got it!
Seems like the original owner was like the same owner of mine. Every gun in his collection he stored in his safe and threw the boxes and paperwork away.
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08-09-2020, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
Two more ...
The bore was pristine. Nice crown.
There was very little wear on the contact surfaces where the stainless barrel and slide reciprocate. And what little amount you could see could've been done by hand-cycling, as the breech-face and extractor were also free of visible contact wear from the repeated cycling of brass casings.
My initial thought was: the 'smith was right. If the original owner ever put two boxes of shells through it, you couldn't tell. There was only a little bit what looked like old soot on the orange follower in the magazine. No scratches on the body of the magazine either, nor on the gun.
Given the condition, it had been stored well somewhere, which made me wonder why the original factory box and papers hadn't come in with the gun (?)
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That Model 645 is extremely clean, cleaner than mine!
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08-09-2020, 10:46 AM
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Mine is that clean, except it has the 4506 safety levers. Since I’m not a purist, I consider that an upgrade. GARY.
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08-09-2020, 11:37 AM
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Very nice. I carried one as a duty pistol in the mid 80's. Wish I still had it.
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08-13-2020, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-22
$600-$650 is fair. Less is a steal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog 521
The suspense is killing us.
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Sorry, guys, for not getting back sooner with 'the rest of the story,' .... but I'm in the middle of downsizing and trying to get moved from TWO houses into ONE house. So my time isn't my own just right now.
Long story short:
Yes, I bought the above-pictured 645.
And YES, I STOLE that roscoe!
Part of it was that my long-time gunsmith at this LGS keeps an eye on the consignment firearms coming in (pistols and rifles). He pretty much knows what I'm looking for, like pre-lock S&W wheelguns and semi-auto pistols, M1 Garands, etc. I gave him a list once, but he'll call me anyway if he thinks it's something special or unusual.
Then he did me an additional favor by advising the store's new owner, a younger guy in his early 40s, that because this 645 was a long 'out-of-production S&W gun' with 'no parts- or factory-support,' and only one magazine, it was 'at best a $400 gun.'
The other part was a 'right place, right time' thing.
By the time I got out to the store, my 'smith had left, but the owner was still there. No one else was in the store except one counter guy. Slow day.
The owner knows me as a good customer who's bought guns there before, so after looking the gun over and pretending to be annoyed by only one mag and no box or papers, yadda, yadda, ... I asked him point blank:
'Would you take $325 today, just to get rid of it.'
'Well,' he said, 'it's a pretty clean gun.'
He picked it up off the counter and looked it over. Then he looked at the price tag attached to the trigger guard, where the 'smith had already written $400, then looked the gun over again. (I knew he knew zippo about valuing these old Smith autos).
'Ah, well, ... I think $350's as low as I can go on this one. It's really in good shape.'
'Hmmmm.' I scratched my chin and frowned. 'Yeah it is. Okay so $350 out the door?'
'Well, no, there'd be tax, Frank. The Governor has to get his cut.'
Gave it a 10-second considerational pause, along with more obligatory frowning ... then:
'Okay, I can do $350 and tax. That's good.'
We shook hands and he told the counter guy to ring it up that way.
Final bill 'out da door': $378.89.
Yep, stole this one.
Maybe once I'm finally moved in and settled, I'll actually have time to get this roscoe out to the range.
Last edited by Frank Black; 08-13-2020 at 09:09 PM.
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08-13-2020, 09:40 AM
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Mine was $400 OTD, 1 mag, no box, so we both paid about the same. I don’t feel I stole mine. I feel it was a good deal. And the store made $ too, as most profit in gun stores is from the sale of pre owned guns, not new ones. So when the buyer, & seller are happy, it’s a good deal.
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08-13-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N4KVE
Mine was $400 OTD, 1 mag, no box, so we both paid about the same. I don’t feel I stole mine. I feel it was a good deal. And the store made $ too, as most profit in gun stores is from the sale of pre owned guns, not new ones. So when the buyer, & seller are happy, it’s a good deal.
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Yeah, the answer to the question posed in title of this thread, 'What's It Worth?' is generally:
Any particular S&W 645 is worth what a willing seller and a willing buyer agree it's worth - obviously minus fraud or coercion.
The differences here are: the pristine condition of this 645 (essentially LNIB condition), and the disparity in knowledge between buyer and seller as to what valuation (pricing) the same or similar 645 would command in a wider market.
Not sure whether the 645 you bought for $400 was in the same condition as mine, but if it was, then we both got the waaay better end of the deal.
Last edited by Frank Black; 08-13-2020 at 09:12 PM.
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08-13-2020, 07:10 PM
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You did really good in my opinion.
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08-13-2020, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Black
Not sure whether the 645 you bought for $400 was in the same condition as mine, but if it was, then we both got the waaay better end of the deal.
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Absolutely mint, with the upgraded 4506 safety levers. And a FAR better trigger than the one on my first 645 30 years ago. GARY.
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