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01-13-2021, 06:03 PM
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CS9 Needed a Recoil Spring
When I buy a used semi auto, I always replace the recoil and mag springs. Unless I forget....
Several years ago I bought a used CS9 and intended to replace the springs, but unlike 3913 springs, I couldn't find them anywhere. So I added it to my long list of things to do. In the meantime the CS9 shot great; accurate and 100% reliable.
Last month I took it to the range and experienced failures to return to battery?! The slide had to be pushed forward 3/8 inch or so on a number of rounds, independent of ammo type.
I have owned seven 3rd Gen Smiths, and this was the FIRST TIME I had ever experienced an issue with any of them. In fact, I'm still waiting for my first FTF or FTE.
Luckily, I was able to buy a recoil spring (plus 2 spares) online. Put it in today, and the CS9 just cycled ~50 rounds with no issues whatsoever. If ammo wasn't so scarce and pricey these days, I'd still be at the range. For a small 9mm, that gun sure is a joy to shoot. Looks like the problem was my fault for dropping the ball on routine maintenance.
So, the moral of the story is replace those 3rd Gen recoil springs every 5 years or 5k rounds, whichever comes first. And don't forget to keep half an eye on that To Do list.
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01-13-2021, 06:14 PM
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The CS9 is a GREAT little 9mm. I was shooting mine today. Accurate and reliable IF .you keep it maintained.
I use synthetic grease on the frame rails and change my recoil AND mag springs every 3 years or 3K rounds, whichever comes first. But I shoot mine a lot too.
Enjoy yours! Regards 18DAI
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01-13-2021, 06:22 PM
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Synthetic grease here as well. I think it makes sense on fast moving parts like the slide, especially with an alloy frame. Forgot to mention for the benefit of other CS9 owners, Midway had the recoil springs on backorder, and they arrived in my mailbox in about 10 days.
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01-13-2021, 08:12 PM
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I just ordered a bunch of parts for my 3rd Gens, including a spare recoil spring for my CS9.
Both Midway and Brownells still carry some parts for the 3rd Gens, but availability can be iffy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed58
Synthetic grease here as well. I think it makes sense on fast moving parts like the slide, especially with an alloy frame. Forgot to mention for the benefit of other CS9 owners, Midway had the recoil springs on backorder, and they arrived in my mailbox in about 10 days.
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01-15-2021, 05:54 PM
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I just stumbled on Fastbolt’s detailed answer to a fellow member who was having the exact same problem with their CS9. Dated 8-16-14, 9:31 pm.
One point that really caught my eye was his practice of replacing those flat CS9/45 recoil springs even more frequently: 2-3 years or 800-1200 rounds +/-. That plus 18DAIs post above have me thinking...at about $4 per spring, why not replace it every 2-3 years.
There was a bunch of other good info in his post and that thread as well.
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04-20-2021, 09:13 AM
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I have found one that I intend to buy especially since Smith confirmed that they are still supporting the CS9.
Can anyone explain the design , I ask because there is virtually no barrel tilt just like a 1911 but no bushing, very mysterious to me.
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04-20-2021, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
I have found one that I intend to buy especially since Smith confirmed that they are still supporting the CS9.
Can anyone explain the design , I ask because there is virtually no barrel tilt just like a 1911 but no bushing, very mysterious to me.
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The bushing is the silver ring, pressed into slide.
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04-20-2021, 11:30 AM
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As Steve912 pointed out, the CS9 does have a barrel bushing. Pressed into the slide as he said. And the barrel does tilt slightly to unlock.
As far as the design, it is the smallest descendant of the 39XX series pistols. Unlike the 39XX series guns, the barrel does not have a locking lug, It locks up on the hood and slide.
When the CS9 first appeared, there were gun scribes who wrote articles claiming it was not an accurate pistol. I own two examples, currently. An early production black CS9, with plastic sights and cheap sharpie marker finish (and those are the ONLY bad things I can say about that pistol) and a late production LE Special order with Novak night sights and ambi safety. Both are VERY accurate out to 7 yards. Especially with 147 grain defensive rounds. I don't shoot them beyond 7 yards as that is not what the CS9 was designed for.
It was designed as an up close defensive pistol that is easily concealed. And it is extremely successful in that mission. Mine will keep a 3 inch group in rapid fire at 7 yards. All "A" hits. It will also put 2 rounds of 147 RA9T, into a sub 1 inch group, on a B27 target at 3 feet, drawing from concealment, in less than 2.3 seconds. Great 9mm carry gun. My stainless example has become my most carried gun. My 3913s and 4513TSW rest in the safe.
Buy it, shoot it, love it. You will be glad you did. Practice with it too. Like snub revolvers, it takes practice to maintain proficiency with tiny semi autos. But shoot realistic targets at realistic ranges. Shooting the CS9 at 25 yards and expecting a 1.5 inch group, with any ammo, is a frustrating excercise.
I am giving two lessons in defensive pistol use this afternoon and will be using my CS9 to demonstrate drills/technique with. Regards 18DAI
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04-20-2021, 11:44 AM
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May I add, "Ditto."
I have a twin to 18DAI's gun. The only difference is that I swapped in a single side safety. I use 124gr , but get very good accuracy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI
As Steve912 pointed out, the CS9 does have a barrel bushing. Pressed into the slide as he said. And the barrel does tilt slightly to unlock.
As far as the design, it is the smallest descendant of the 39XX series pistols. Unlike the 39XX series guns, the barrel does not have a locking lug, It locks up on the hood and slide.
When the CS9 first appeared, there were gun scribes who wrote articles claiming it was not an accurate pistol. I own two examples, currently. An early production black CS9, with plastic sights and cheap sharpie marker finish (and those are the ONLY bad things I can say about that pistol) and a late production LE Special order with Novak night sights and ambi safety. Both are VERY accurate out to 7 yards. Especially with 147 grain defensive rounds. I don't shoot them beyond 7 yards as that is not what the CS9 was designed for.
It was designed as an up close defensive pistol that is easily concealed. And it is extremely successful in that mission. Mine will keep a 3 inch group in rapid fire at 7 yards. All "A" hits. It will also put 2 rounds of 147 RA9T, into a sub 1 inch group, on a B27 target at 3 feet, drawing from concealment, in less than 2.3 seconds. Great 9mm carry gun. My stainless example has become my most carried gun. My 3913s and 4513TSW rest in the safe.
Buy it, shoot it, love it. You will be glad you did. Practice with it too. Like snub revolvers, it takes practice to maintain proficiency with tiny semi autos. But shoot realistic targets at realistic ranges. Shooting the CS9 at 25 yards and expecting a 1.5 inch group, with any ammo, is a frustrating excercise.
I am giving two lessons in defensive pistol use this afternoon and will be using my CS9 to demonstrate drills/technique with. Regards 18DAI
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04-20-2021, 11:59 AM
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Good thread on the CS-9! Had that problem a couple times with the slide not returning to battery. Blamed the ammo but greased the slide and frame as I only had maybe 100 rounds through it. Was using 124 grain Winchester or Remington FMJ white box rounds. Seems to have worked. No problems since. A fine pistol and sure wish they were making them today.
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04-20-2021, 12:55 PM
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A true 1911 ?
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04-20-2021, 05:31 PM
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??? No. Not 1911 like AT ALL. First, the CS9 is DA/SA. Not single action like a 1911. You cannot carry a CS9 cocked and locked.
Engaging the safety on a CS9 drops the hammer. Completely different operating procedures and mechanisms on the CS9 and 1911.
You may want to look at the s&w 3 inch 1911 "pro" in 9mm. It is similar in size to a CS9. And is a 1911. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI
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04-20-2021, 05:51 PM
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...and the CS9 and (most? all?) other 3rd Gen S&Ws use a
system of interfering ramps on barrel & frame, to cam
barrel down & out of the slide lock up.
A 1911 uses a swinging link, pinned to barrel and rotating
around slide stop axis, to accomplish same task.
"True" 1911s also use a (IMO) more primitive extractor
(one 'bent' piece, using structure's spring tension) vs the
S&W's pivoting, spring-loaded 'hook'...
I think I'll leave discussion of trigger differences for 18DAI
and Fastbolt
Oh, don't forget S&W Customer Service. I've gotten CS9 and
other springs, etc, from them!
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04-22-2021, 08:28 AM
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appreciate the comments very much-not a straight/direct blowback like Beretta , not a 1911-why doesn't the barrel give the 'finger' so to speak and is this design a Smith only ?
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04-22-2021, 08:30 AM
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forgot to ask, the plastic guide rod a concern or non issue?
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04-22-2021, 08:34 AM
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double forgot, Smith did confirm that the CS9 continues to be supported but I need to get a direct answer as to whether or not parts are still being made
Last edited by gsn; 04-22-2021 at 08:35 AM.
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04-22-2021, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
appreciate the comments very much-not a straight/direct blowback like Beretta , not a 1911-why doesn't the barrel give the 'finger' so to speak and is this design a Smith only ?
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Not sure of your question--do you mean "why doesn't the
barrel protrude from front of slide, when slide moves
rearward"? The answer would be, "It does (protrude from
front of slide, when slide moves rearward)".
AFA S&W CS "dodging" question on current production vs
availability--he/she probably just didn't know if part XYZ
is still on-hand, or still in production. They probably just
look stuff up and see if there's any on hand or not, and
may not have any indication of production/non-production.
On my CS9, the recoil spring guide rod is steel. There is a
small projection at breech end made of plastic/composite/
delrin (???) that locates rod base on frame and acts as a
retention detent for the slide stop. I haven't had any
problem with any of the design, though my CS9
ownership is only a year or so.
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04-22-2021, 02:53 PM
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tnks again, being a revolver guy I joking refer to semi auto handguns which are not straight blowback as giving the finger when the barrel tilts upward.
Its beginning to look like Smith has ceased production of spares for the CS9 and all gen 3, waiting for one last email from the Company.
I did forget to mention that Smith cs has been fantastic and I certainly many not be asking questions as clearly as I think I am.
Last edited by gsn; 04-22-2021 at 02:58 PM.
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04-22-2021, 05:08 PM
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Don't take too long to decide.
The CS9s are running $600 to $900 in auctions, with lots of bidding
activity.
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04-22-2021, 07:53 PM
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I have a pinto CS40 and it is, believe it or not, the softest shooting 40 I have shot so far. Accurate too.
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04-22-2021, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raygixxer89
I have a pinto CS40 and it is, believe it or not, the softest shooting 40 I have shot so far. Accurate too.
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Stainless slide, and blue/black frame? I have one also, serial TDR96xx, and it's not at all objectionable to shoot. It's outfitted with the real Big Dog delrin grips.
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04-23-2021, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912
Don't take too long to decide.
The CS9s are running $600 to $900 in auctions, with lots of bidding
activity.
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That is indeed the numbers that I see however if Smith has stopped production of critical parts what real value does such a gun have?
The money would be far better spent on ammo or a gun that you could also get wear parts to have on hand- wouldn't you agree??
I should have added that the gun I have seen is on Gunjoker-a consignment from likely the third 'owner' located a few states away.
The cost will be significant the risk even greater.
Now if this was a classic Smith pinned wheelie with clear closeups of the cylinder/frame/barrel/ejector and every screw -completely different situation and risk factor.
Last edited by gsn; 04-23-2021 at 08:43 AM.
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04-23-2021, 09:29 AM
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You'll be much happier buying something else. The 3rd Gens are everything that a semi auto pistol should be, except they aren't in production.
There are plenty of parts available for 1911 pattern guns, mostly because they break down often and need them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
That is indeed the numbers that I see however if Smith has stopped production of critical parts what real value does such a gun have?
The money would be far better spent on ammo or a gun that you could also get wear parts to have on hand- wouldn't you agree??
I should have added that the gun I have seen is on Gunjoker-a consignment from likely the third 'owner' located a few states away.
The cost will be significant the risk even greater.
Now if this was a classic Smith pinned wheelie with clear closeups of the cylinder/frame/barrel/ejector and every screw -completely different situation and risk factor.
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04-23-2021, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
That is indeed the numbers that I see however if Smith has stopped production of critical parts what real value does such a gun have?
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I was providing prevailing market pricing-- value will be
dependent on many other factors, some purely subjective and
personal, in nature.
Your dollars, your choice. Ain't Life Grand!
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04-23-2021, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceB
Stainless slide, and blue/black frame? I have one also, serial TDR96xx, and it's not at all objectionable to shoot. It's outfitted with the real Big Dog delrin grips.
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Yup as far as the color combo but mine has the fat curved grips. I can't remember who makes them.
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04-23-2021, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raygixxer89
Yup as far as the color combo but mine has the fat curved grips. I can't remember who makes them.
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If you have the fat rubber grips with a silver screw on each side, they're OEM from S&W, made by Hogue.
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04-24-2021, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912
If you have the fat rubber grips with a silver screw on each side, they're OEM from S&W, made by Hogue.
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HOGUE! That was the name I couldn't remember! Getting old is no fun I tell ya! I would love to get a hold of some of those grips like yours. While I like the way the OEM feel, All of my other Smiths have the standard grips and I like to keep things uniform, hehe.
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04-24-2021, 09:01 AM
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One review raises THE red flag about 3rd gen Smiths in general and the CS9 in particular;
if you don't want to watch the entire vid go to 5:30 or so
guess Boris the Blade gives good advice
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04-24-2021, 09:05 AM
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as much as I would like to get the CS9 common sense presents a compelling reason to avoid it and sadly it would seem-all gen 3 Smith master-blasters
hyphen inserted for ?????
Last edited by gsn; 04-24-2021 at 09:08 AM.
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04-24-2021, 11:27 AM
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All my 3rd gens must be faulty. Literally tens of thousands of rounds through them over the last 22 years (most of it donated by the taxpayers) carried daily, shot weekly - different guns/multiple times - and I broke three parts.
Two mag catches and a side plate. And it took 9K rounds through a 457 to break the side plate - far more than the "average" owner will probably shoot through all their guns.
So, where are all these broken 3rd gen guns at? And what, exactly, is breaking on them? I'm curious. Regards 18DAI
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04-24-2021, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
One review raises THE red flag about 3rd gen Smiths in general and the CS9 in particular.
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I must not have been paying close enough attention during the video, but what was "THE red flag about 3rd gen Smiths in general and the CS9 in particular" to which the reviewer alluded?
John?
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04-24-2021, 03:33 PM
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It's apparent that you want a reason not to buy a CS9. You don't need one, nor do you need to try to convince us that they are an inferior product. They aren't.
Buy something you'll like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
as much as I would like to get the CS9 common sense presents a compelling reason to avoid it and sadly it would seem-all gen 3 Smith master-blasters
hyphen inserted for ?????
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04-24-2021, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
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Had to play it at 1.5X to avoid dozing off
I guess the "red flag" is the chafing of recoil spring
guide rod tip?
The spring-loaded tip on recoil spring rod is polymer. It
does the usual 3rd Gen job of retaining the slide lock
axis in frame, by seating in a scooped area on the
slide lock.
Mine had some chafing on the polymer nib as well.
I trimmed it off and haven't seen any recurrence.
Doesn't seem like a problem.
The guy said he'd fired over 1,200 rounds thru
it, and didn't sound old enough to be an orginal
purchaser. No telling how many rounds had been
fired prior to his 1,200, but the pistol appeared to
be functioning properly and reliably, despite the
fuzzy guide rod tip.
On most 3rd Gens, btw, the spring loaded tip is
a polished steel cap, so this doesn't apply to
"3rd gen Smiths in general." Maybe all/only the
Value Line guns use the plastic tip...?
I'd red flag the guy for his disassembly narration--
drop magazine, put on 'fire', and no mention of
checking chamber.
Last edited by Steve912; 04-24-2021 at 05:22 PM.
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04-24-2021, 08:35 PM
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"Red Flag"?!?
Relax, folks.
Yes, S&W introduced a polymer guide rod plunger for some of the budget models, including the CS guns. Just like they designed polymer disconnectors and mainspring cups in the 90's ... and don't forget the long running ejector depressor plunger.
Back when I first noticed I had a polymer guide rod plunger in my CS45 (bought '99 or 2000?), I called and asked about it with one of the guys at the factory. He said they weren't getting complaints about them in Pistol Repair, but offered to send me a few extra stainless steel plungers if I wanted. Why not, right?
After fiddling with the polymer and the stainless plungers in my CS45 (and later CS9), both of my CS guns are running ... polymer guide rod plungers.
Yes, I noticed some minor abrading and light fuzz at the end of the polymer plungers, similar to what was seem in the video. I just removed it (cut or plucked, depending), and didn't worry about it anymore.
FWIW, I also started letting my recoil springs run out a little longer in the CS45/9's, instead of replacing them in 1000rds (=/-200rds). Of course, I'm shooting them a bit less, too, since I'm no longer working our old LE range and shooting a few times per month.
This reminds me of when I learned one of our guys who owned a CS45, which he used as an off-duty weapon, hadn't replaced his mag or recoil springs since he'd bought the gun ... 10 years ago. Granted, he only shot the gun a couple times a year, but that was kinda outside the then-new mag/recoil spring replacement recommendation S&W was telling its armorers, of every 5 years (left fully loaded) or 5,000 rounds fired.
Prior to that, the company basically just told us to monitor functioning, checking for positive slide stop/slide engagement during live-fire on the firing line, and also at the bench when inspecting empty guns/mags at the bench. This was done by manually racking the slides as fast as possible to see if the mag spring lifted the follower quickly enough to lift the slide stop into the slide's stop notch. We were also told to compare free length of used springs to new springs, and given a broad rule-of-thumb for serviceable free length of working recoil and mag springs.
Anyhow, while this guy with the CS45 wasn't experiencing any feeding or functioning issues with his 10 year old gun and springs, using the various 230gr factory ammo we provided at the range, I recommended he order some new springs. Just to err on the conservative side of owner maintenance practices to help keep his gun running.
My CS45 guide rod & plunger (left) and a TSW guide rod assembly (right). That's the polymer rod plunger I've been running for quite a few years (and many cases of ammo), minus any plastic fuzz I've removed.
More comparison pics of steel and plastic plungers for guide rods.
Now, installing the slide stop lever's pin in the frame is something that ought not be done with excessive force, of course. Unlike the guy in the video, I usually finish putting the slide/barrel on the frame, and then retract the slide until the slide stop notches in the slide and frame align ... and then I either tip the muzzle up, or use the tip of my finger to push the barrel to the rear ... so the barrel lug moves to the rear and clears the frame hole where the slide stop pin is going to be inserted. Tipping the barrel up lets gravity do the work for you. (Grasping the frame so your thumb and web of your hand is under the grip tang of the frame, and your fingers are up and around in front of the rear sight base, let's you squeeze and hold the slide and frame aligned to let the barrel tip and fall back, or you can hold the gun horizontal and push the barrel back, depending on your preference.)
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Just some thoughts.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 04-24-2021 at 08:36 PM.
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04-24-2021, 08:49 PM
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Gentlemen, I am looking for an excuse to buy the CS9 knowing that Smith has ceased production of parts.
Perhaps some could put together a list of absolutely essential spare parts for me.
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04-24-2021, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
"Red Flag"?!?
Relax, folks.
Yes, S&W introduced a polymer guide rod plunger for some of the budget models, including the CS guns. Just like they designed polymer disconnectors and mainspring cups in the 90's ... and don't forget the long running ejector depressor plunger.
Back when I first noticed I had a polymer guide rod plunger in my CS45 (bought '99 or 2000?), I called and asked about it with one of the guys at the factory. He said they weren't getting complaints about them in Pistol Repair, but offered to send me a few extra stainless steel plungers if I wanted. Why not, right?
After fiddling with the polymer and the stainless plungers in my CS45 (and later CS9), both of my CS guns are running ... polymer guide rod plungers.
Yes, I noticed some minor abrading and light fuzz at the end of the polymer plungers, similar to what was seem in the video. I just removed it (cut or plucked, depending), and didn't worry about it anymore.
FWIW, I also started letting my recoil springs run out a little longer in the CS45/9's, instead of replacing them in 1000rds (=/-200rds). Of course, I'm shooting them a bit less, too, since I'm no longer working our old LE range and shooting a few times per month.
This reminds me of when I learned one of our guys who owned a CS45, which he used as an off-duty weapon, hadn't replaced his mag or recoil springs since he'd bought the gun ... 10 years ago. Granted, he only shot the gun a couple times a year, but that was kinda outside the then-new mag/recoil spring replacement recommendation S&W was telling its armorers, of every 5 years (left fully loaded) or 5,000 rounds fired.
Prior to that, the company basically just told us to monitor functioning, checking for positive slide stop/slide engagement during live-fire on the firing line, and also at the bench when inspecting empty guns/mags at the bench. This was done by manually racking the slides as fast as possible to see if the mag spring lifted the follower quickly enough to lift the slide stop into the slide's stop notch. We were also told to compare free length of used springs to new springs, and given a broad rule-of-thumb for serviceable free length of working recoil and mag springs.
Anyhow, while this guy with the CS45 wasn't experiencing any feeding or functioning issues with his 10 year old gun and springs, using the various 230gr factory ammo we provided at the range, I recommended he order some new springs. Just to err on the conservative side of owner maintenance practices to help keep his gun running.
My CS45 guide rod & plunger (left) and a TSW guide rod assembly (right). That's the polymer rod plunger I've been running for quite a few years (and many cases of ammo), minus any plastic fuzz I've removed.
More comparison pics of steel and plastic plungers for guide rods.
Now, installing the slide stop lever's pin in the frame is something that ought not be done with excessive force, of course. Unlike the guy in the video, I usually finish putting the slide/barrel on the frame, and then retract the slide until the slide stop notches in the slide and frame align ... and then I either tip the muzzle up, or use the tip of my finger to push the barrel to the rear ... so the barrel lug moves to the rear and clears the frame hole where the slide stop pin is going to be inserted. Tipping the barrel up lets gravity do the work for you. (Grasping the frame so your thumb and web of your hand is under the grip tang of the frame, and your fingers are up and around in front of the rear sight base, let's you squeeze and hold the slide and frame aligned to let the barrel tip and fall back, or you can hold the gun horizontal and push the barrel back, depending on your preference.)
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
Just some thoughts.
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Tnks for the info.
IF the gun does indeed have about 1200 rds does this change anything in your opinion.
Are you taking the position that Smith no longer making parts for the CS9 and apparently all gen 3 handguns is NOT a huge problem for owners of these pistols?
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04-24-2021, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
Don't mangle the plastic plunger by trying to push it through the steel barrel lug that's in the way of the pin you're trying to push into the frame hole. Won't work.
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Aha!
Thanks, that explains how the polymer tips get fuzzy!!
I'd concluded it wasn't a show-stopper on mine, but had
the unanswered "why'd dat happen" ruminating.
Edit: now I'll be wondering "how'd he take those plungers
out?"
Last edited by Steve912; 04-24-2021 at 09:53 PM.
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04-24-2021, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
Tnks for the info.
IF the gun does indeed have about 1200 rds does this change anything in your opinion.
Are you taking the position that Smith no longer making parts for the CS9 and apparently all gen 3 handguns is NOT a huge problem for owners of these pistols?
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Recoil springs & mag springs...if nothing else.
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04-25-2021, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912
Aha!
Thanks, that explains how the polymer tips get fuzzy!!
I'd concluded it wasn't a show-stopper on mine, but had
the unanswered "why'd dat happen" ruminating.
Edit: now I'll be wondering "how'd he take those plungers
out?"
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Installing and removing the slide stop lever pin pushes/pulls the plunger head across the end of the lever pin's tip, and along the length of the lever's pin. The plunger can rotate, so marks, burrs or scratches can end up all around the plunger head.
FWIW, when the steel plunger is used, pushing/pulling the lever pin back and forth across it can create a rolled burr/lip on the outside edge of the plunger head. I've occasionally has to use a stone to deburr a steel plunger head.
The plungers on the older style 2-piece staked collar guide rods aren't removable. The collars are staked to the rod body.
The newer style all-steel 1-piece rods have the collar machined into the rear of the rod. The spring is snapped onto the bottom of the plunger, and the bottom (larger) end of the spring is inserted, twisted (to lightly compress the large bottom winding) and then pushed down into the hole of the rod body. Ditto removal (pull the plunger tip, twist the spring as it emerges and remove it). I prefer to twist the spring counter-clockwise as I insert it into the rod (or remove it), to minimize having the sharp end of the last winding's wire drag against the inside of the rod opening.
Removal of the plunger and spring isn't required for normal maintenance or cleaning. Not unless the guide rod assembly were to be exposed to some hostile environmental condition and contaminated, like dropped and submerged into standing water, ocean, etc. The sort of thing where an armorer would really detail strip an entire gun.
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Last edited by Fastbolt; 04-25-2021 at 01:28 AM.
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04-25-2021, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn
Tnks for the info.
IF the gun does indeed have about 1200 rds does this change anything in your opinion.
Are you taking the position that Smith no longer making parts for the CS9 and apparently all gen 3 handguns is NOT a huge problem for owners of these pistols?
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Kinda depends what might become damaged or broken.
As long as the gun has been cleaned and lubricated (protecting the aluminum frame rails), and the previous owner didn't do any kitchen table tinkering under the hood, 1200rds of good quality factory ammo means the gun is essentially broken in. Some agencies who issued 3rd gen's required up to at least twice that number of rounds fired for each academy shooter, and then the guns were afterward used in-service by the shooters for recurrent training, quals, etc, during their careers.
The newer production 3rd gen guns were pretty robust. Normal cleaning and lubrication practices, combined with some reasonable spring replacements (mag/recoil) could help keep them running for a long time.
Personally, if I were buying a Used 3rd gen, I'd prefer to buy one made after the introduction of MIM. Think the end of the 90's and through the first several years of the early 2000's, and while the production and assembly was still being done in Springfield by folks who had been making them for years (before it was moved to the Houlton plant). The company was buying new manufacturing equipment, making improvements and refining their designs and materials. Parts and assemblies were becoming more precise regarding tolerances and production.
Sadly, the 3rd gen's had reached a very respectable pinnacle of quality and reliability, and then the company discontinued them for the more marketable plastic guns (due to market forces).
Sure, gunsmiths who are familiar with working on the 3rd gen S&W's (as well as the 1st & 2nd gen) seem to be dwindling in numbers, and the remaining factory trained armorers are likely retired (or have aged out). As the remaining new parts become less frequently found and available ... so, too, might be the people trained and experienced to service and repair the 3rd gen guns. (Which is an all-too-familiar story with a number of discontinued/obsolete firearms, right?)
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04-26-2021, 04:30 PM
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location is something I had not even considered , did production change in toto or were examples available from both ME/MA ?
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04-26-2021, 04:49 PM
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We were told in armorer classes that as the AR15 rifle and M&P pistol production were ramping up, to make room in Springfield they shipped out the 3rd gen production and repair to Houlton. To be fair, they also said they'd been providing new CNC machines and new training for the plant workers. That meant the Houlton plant was making 'cuffs, Walther PP/PPK's, S&W .22's, SW1911's and the 3rd gen guns.
I'd not be surprised if there was some "overlap" in production as the shift was being implemented, but I never asked about it.
Since the 3rd gen guns had benefited from engineering and repair dept involvement during the AIP days (Automatic Improvement Program), it would make sense that there was a lot of experienced, institutional knowledge about the constantly refined 3rd gens located in Springfield ... right up until much of that experience and knowledge was retiring and walking out the door. Of the factory folks with whom I grew acquainted over the years of being a S&W trained armorer, a couple have passed and several have retired. The passing of a generation.
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04-27-2021, 07:59 PM
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tnks
I imagine that the serial numbers indicate where made , I'll look up info on how to decipher the sn.
There were some real good people at Smith, at least when I was there anyway.
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