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  #51  
Old 02-15-2021, 05:32 PM
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Thank you Master Chief! For ALL your efforts on our behalf! Much appreciated. Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-15-2021, 07:13 PM
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Two weeks the sample spring has been floating around USPS.
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Old 02-15-2021, 07:20 PM
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Thank you for your efforts too Jeppo! Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-16-2021, 01:59 AM
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Two weeks the sample spring has been floating around USPS.
Scanned out of the regional distribution center on the 8th. I wager it's still sitting in a trailer outside in Jackson. We're all iced up down here so I'm not expecting anything to be delivered before Saturday.

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Old 02-24-2021, 02:37 PM
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Scanned out of the regional distribution center on the 8th. I wager it's still sitting in a trailer outside in Jackson. We're all iced up down here so I'm not expecting anything to be delivered before Saturday.

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Finally, more than 3 weeks later.
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:28 PM
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Obvious signs the envelope was jammed in the sorting machinery a few times along the way requiring manual intervention. Spring was poking out through a tear in the middle.

Best to ship this kind of lumpy stuff in a box or thick padded envelope.

In any event, it finally made it's way here ...Thanks for steeping up. I have most everything needed to build the test fixture. A few bits yet on order from McMaster and need to get the pin-out for wiring the load cell to a D-sub9 connector.

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Bill
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:37 PM
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Fastbolt

I got my ISMI springs last night and it slides perfectly over my .260" kings guide rod and recoil spring reverse plug.

I have not shot this guy in a long time and currently the frame is being front strap checkered. Not sure when I will get it back....
Interesting - and annoying - aspect of using the ISMI 22lb spring in the King's bushing, rod and reverse plug setup Officers.

The King's 2.927" OA length rod won't tip and find the plug hole, and the King's rod doesn't have a "wire" takedown hole drilled in it. So, I have to push the reverse plug back far enough to grasp it, and hold it retracted enough for the front of the plug to clear the rear of the spring tunnel, and then lever up the rear of the rod. All while holding the plug back on the rod and the 22lb spring compressed.

Reverse order to install.

I called Clark's and they said their kit won't fit on Officers Models modified to use the defunct King's kit (different length plug, and apparently the alignment notch on the plug, which the King's plug doesn't have/use). I'm waiting to hear if they're willing to grind a rod to 2.93" OA length and drill it for the takedown wire (paperclip).

Otherwise, I may have to send the rod to BMCM and have him drill a hole in it. My fixture on the drill press doesn't hold something that small, and I don't want to risk buggering it up.

Sigh. At least I got the neat new Brownells plunger tube staking fixture, to tighten the staking on one end of the old gun's tube. I wish they'd had that inexpensive tool many years ago. I disliked the old ways of staking the tubes.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:12 PM
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Well, Clark's said they can cut down a Commander rod to the right length, but the takedown hole for the wire won't be in the right place. (Of course.) Didn't sound like they were willing to drill a new hole for the shorter Officer's length rod.

So, once I get tired of compressing the longer 22lb flat-wire spring on the rod, and holding the reverse plug back far enough to let me slip the front and rear of the rod into place, and then control/release the plug to go forward into the spring tunnel ... I'll probably give you call, BMCM, and arrange for you to drill a takedown hole in the King's Officer's rods for my friend and I.

Meanwhile, I've got to use that slick new Brownells tool to tighten the front staking of the plunger tube (or replace it, depending what I find), and I'm waiting for one style of the newer Wilson's Officer's/Compact 7rd mag to arrive (compared to the old design I have from many years ago). I've already received one of the Ed Brown Officer's mags, and a couple of the 7rd Tripp Research Officers mags, to test out in that Officer's.

Once everything proves shipshape on the live-fire range, I'll resurrect that stainless Officer's to serve as a retirement CCW. It has some personally meaning to me, as it came from my father, and the custom work was done by my former instructor/armorer mentor (back before I became a Colt armorer). Both men are now passed. My former instructor/armorer mentor built some very nice PPC revolvers (S&W K's & Colt Python) and 1911's.

Now, we return your channel back to the CS45 recoil spring topic ...
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:26 PM
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Yep, this is the right channel!
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Old 03-04-2021, 08:03 PM
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Well, Clark's said they can cut down a Commander rod to the right length, but the takedown hole for the wire won't be in the right place. (Of course.) Didn't sound like they were willing to drill a new hole for the shorter Officer's length rod.

So, once I get tired of compressing the longer 22lb flat-wire spring on the rod, and holding the reverse plug back far enough to let me slip the front and rear of the rod into place, and then control/release the plug to go forward into the spring tunnel ... I'll probably give you call, BMCM, and arrange for you to drill a takedown hole in the King's Officer's rods for my friend and I.

Meanwhile, I've got to use that slick new Brownells tool to tighten the front staking of the plunger tube (or replace it, depending what I find), and I'm waiting for one style of the newer Wilson's Officer's/Compact 7rd mag to arrive (compared to the old design I have from many years ago). I've already received one of the Ed Brown Officer's mags, and a couple of the 7rd Tripp Research Officers mags, to test out in that Officer's.

Once everything proves shipshape on the live-fire range, I'll resurrect that stainless Officer's to serve as a retirement CCW. It has some personally meaning to me, as it came from my father, and the custom work was done by my former instructor/armorer mentor (back before I became a Colt armorer). Both men are now passed. My former instructor/armorer mentor built some very nice PPC revolvers (S&W K's & Colt Python) and 1911's.

Now, we return your channel back to the CS45 recoil spring topic ...
At your service my friend... 5C collet blocks and center finder standing by.

I'm told another one of those King's rod is on the way here from another of our members for modification as well.

1/16" or 0.0625 hole across 3 to 9 o'clock about 0.750 back from the front, chamfer applied both left & right.

Cheers
Bill
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:17 PM
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At your service my friend... 5C collet blocks and center finder standing by.

I'm told another one of those King's rod is on the way here from another of our members for modification as well.

1/16" or 0.0625 hole across 3 to 9 o'clock about 0.750 back from the front, chamfer applied both left & right.

Cheers
Bill
Damn, you're good. (Knew that. )

From the front of the King's rod to the front of the plug, at slide-lock, I get approx 1.734 inches of exposed rod.

Pushing the plug back far enough to just clear the rear of the spring tunnel (which was previously shortened a tad for the King's kit plug), I get 0.69-0.70" (rough gauging using punch length), so 0.750" ought to be perfect. Seen this before, huh?

Much obliged.

After I tighten the plunger staking and get an appointment scheduled to finish the range testing of the new mags at my former agency's range ... and have to get jury duty out of the way, after my second covid vaccine shot ... I'll get in touch with you and send the rod. Eventually I'll have a second rod that needs to be modified.
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Old 03-05-2021, 04:39 AM
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Yep, this is the right channel!
Here you go.

You knock them over & I'll straighten them up for you.

.



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  #63  
Old 03-09-2021, 11:06 PM
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Hey! Howdy! Haven't heard from you in a while. Lots of things have happened, huh? They sure have with me.

Thanks for posting the info about the KGW modified Colt Officers. Mine has been modified with the same kit, and it's been on my list of things to get around to addressing. (The damned list keeps getting longer the longer I'm retired, which doesn't seem intuitive. )


Anyway, my guide rod is also 0.260", but when I called IMSI I was told my rod couldn't be larger than 0.25" or their spring wouldn't work?? BMCM has graciously offered to turn my guide rod down whenever I can send it to him, but it would be great if it didn't need to be done. I like the info better that you got from the IMSI rep with whom you spoke. (Better than what I was told over the phone.)

You already try the IMSI spring to confirm it fits easily over the King's rod? You don't need to use the old buff King's provided as part of their kit?

That would be great. A buddy also has a tuned Officers with the King's kit, and we've both run out of the spare nested springs King's used to sell. The last bunch I ordered from them before they closed shop were 22lbs sets. They said they made 20lb & 22lb sets for the OM kits.

A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+A+

to BMCM for fast turnaround and very nice centered hole on my guide rod. He even made me some fancy take down tool.

I lubed my guide rod and the EGW Officers flat wire recoil spring went right on. While I have it together and it functions.... I might throw a WC recoil buff like the old Kings system came with and test fire.

I also had my frame checkered and round butted. All I need to find is a WCBP tactical ambi STS thumb safety. I dont want to pay new prices.... so I am looking for a used one.

I hope to test fire soon.

thanks again

BMCM








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Old 03-10-2021, 12:21 AM
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additional info

I sorta guessed on the hole placement on the guide rod.

I wanted .75" back from the pointy end (thanks for those words BMCM) based on measuring, but did not want to get to close to the end of the dust cover or behind/concealed by the dust cover to ease stabbing of the takedown tool.

another factor to consider was the length of the captured assembly for ease of installation. The spring plug is fitted to the slide and has to be clocked with the flat wire spring installed. I might have to deburr the end of the spring as it only allows rotation in one direction.

One thing I did not figure into my calculations was the placement of the slide on the frame to reinstall the slide stop but I dont think that would mattered to have an exposed guide rod hole.

I also installed a WC Shok Buff and it appears I have enough slide retraction for ejection and feeding to occur.



Captured recoil spring and almost a lined up notch for install of the slide stop.



and slide lock with no real effort




while I know this is not for a Smith.... I hope my direction help someone fit a recoil spring in their piece!!!

take care
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:00 AM
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...

The spring plug is fitted to the slide and has to be clocked with the flat wire spring installed. I might have to deburr the end of the spring as it only allows rotation in one direction. ...
Do you mean you put the "open" end of the recoil facing front (like a GM recoil spring)?

I installed the new ISMI spring with the "open" end at the rear of the guide rod. That's how the nested King's springs were used all those years, so the "closed" ends could rest up front within the reverse plug, without risking the "open" end tips getting caught between the front end of the rod and the hole in the plug. Having the closed end facing front might make rotating and adjusting the plug a little easier (unless you mean the closed end has a burr on the end of the last winding).

This isn't a Gov Model where the open front coil of the spring turns and is caught by the stamped notch within the plug's notch.

I'm going without using a buff anymore, myself, now that this ISMI spring can be used. I only used the 10mm buff in the King's kit because it was part of the original King's kit. The King's sets of nested springs used to come in 20lb and 22lb ratings. I only found that out when I called once to order some extra sets and was surprised when the guy asked which ones I wanted. I didn't know there was more than 1 set. He said the 20lb springs were standard, but they offered a 22lb set as an option. (Presumably for heavier +P loads?) I went to the 22lb set after that ... just because.

I've seen too many little chewed up bits of buff material caught up in the recoil spring coils in different guns over time. Although, to be fair, the clear 10mm buffs sold by King's for their Officer's kits never seemed to be as "delicate" as the blue or black ones (other brands) I saw come apart in some guns, and listened to other guys complain about breaking down.

BMCM, that take-down tool is cool. Class.
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Old 03-10-2021, 11:29 AM
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Howdy Fastbolt

Yes on the recoil spring. The KGW recoil spring assembly was installed by them in 1988, I don’t recall the instructions on spring orientation. And for the life of this, I installed the dual springs open end to the front. I will admit that sometimes the tail of the larger spring would stick out the hole of the “plug” and I would rotate the spring when installing.

I was not smart enough to turn the springs around.

I have had great luck with WC shok buffs. I keep an eye on them and when I feel they need to be replaced.... I chunk the old one.

I do not use them for duty or defensive carry.

I had went to a match with a 5” 1911 and grabbed the wrong box of ammo. It was old duty Ammo. PMC El Dorado Starfire 230. The 100 or so rounds i shot flattened the used WC shok buff like I had never seen before. It did not break down, it flattened and grew in diameter.

Recoil with Starfire was SNAPPY!
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Old 03-23-2021, 07:39 PM
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For any of you Gents who might be wondering what I'm up to...

Collecting components...



I need to fab some parts for that crank handle thingy over there on the left. One aluminum fixture to hold the load cell on the moving slide and another fixture on the fixed handle end to hold a 6mm rod secured by one of those Kipp handles. Still need to wire up to load cell to a D-Sub9 connector so it can be plugged into the indicator.

I have another batch of parts on order from McMaster and some tooling from elsewhere pending. Once that stuff is here I can get started cobbling the thing together and mounted on one of those 7 x 23 inch tooling plates you see there under the pile of stuff.

Stay tuned.

Cheers
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Old 03-23-2021, 07:45 PM
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Thank you BMCM! I still have 1 new spring left and around 1900 rounds left on the one in the gun. So no rush! Regards 18DAI
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Old 03-26-2021, 03:13 PM
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Tercgen,
I was working on using Glock springs for the CS45 a while back.
Someone... I think it was BMCM went through a detailed explanation about changing a set of nested springs with a single spring for one of the guns he had. It was very easy to follow his procedure so I tried it on the CS45. I ordered a couple of Glock springs (G19 and G17). I got them in a couple of different spring weights (18# and 20# I think). That is where I ran into the problem that BMCM is working on now... How and Where is a spring weight measured?
Consequently that project got put on hold.
The Glock springs are the same coil size as the CS45 and I think you can get 2 springs by cutting a G17 spring in half...I haven't confirmed that yet. Or you can just shorten a G19 spring for one.
As soon as BMCM figures out the spring weight problem I can continue.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:27 AM
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I want to follow up on most recent spring change to my Colt Officers ACP (45)

I know its not a SW but maybe the recoil spring could work for your application since my COACP was modified in 1988 with a part (full length guide rod) that no one makes springs for anymore.

I used the EGW Officers recoil spring listed in my previous post, BMCM custom drilled a perfect hole in my guide rod as the recoil spring was too long to fight/install into the slide. This hole in combination with a fancy pin captured the recoil spring and now its an easy install.

I was a little skeptical on this system as the slide was considerably easier to rack. My COACP slide grasping grooves are not very aggressive and requires additional pressure on the slide to get a positive rack with the original double recoil springs. I could be eating a sandwich and rack the slide now.... it feels considerably easy to rack.

I had not shot my COACP since around 2014/15. Fastbolt did remind me that the original set up for the Kings Guide Rod for the COACP had a shok buff.

I decided to use a Wilson Combat Shok Buff (blue) with the 1988 Kings Guide Rod Assembly and EGW Officers flat wire recoil spring.

Using Remmy 230 ball, I shot it. I recall recoil being snappy with this little shooter as this was my primary off duty carry in the 90s. However I was much younger, dumber and stronger back then. I have developed a pain shooting certain 1911s with thicker based thumb safety as it digs into the thin skin area of my right hand web area. See pic below and you will understand. My current set up in COACP which I had not shot in years has an Ed Brown thumb safety and it got me on the first shot. Its a thicker base and I could feel the snappy recoil digging into my hand web area.

I had two sets of mags, WC for Officers and Chip McCormick for Officers. The WC developed an issue where it would not feed and the nose of the bullet stuck where the feed ramp in the frame and the feed ramp in the barrel meet. However the Chip's with the spring type follower I am assuming held the nose higher and it ate every round. A gunsmith recently made note of my feed ramp cut and asked if this piece had any issues with feeding. I told him to the best of my knowledge... its a Colt factory original that was just polished. I need to invest in some more Chip's.

I ran about 50-60 rounds through the COACP and was very interested to see what the shok buff looked like. Must to my amazement.... it looked like I had just installed it. No marks, no cuts or no flattening.

hope this info helps others.



here is the back end of my COACP. look how wide/thick the thumb safety flat is. The next images will show you my pain.



Some time ago, a buddy let me shoot his Staccato. After one mag... I gave it back to him.


OUCH



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