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Old 01-14-2021, 11:39 AM
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Default BMCM looks like we are gonna need springs

For the CS45. I recently used my next to last new CS45 recoil spring. And I saw a thread from a fellow here having trouble locating one. So, I looked around. I figured I'd find him one and get a couple of spares for my self too.

No dice. Nothing on GB or Fleabay. Midwayusa and Numrichs don't have any and are not back ordering. As I perused the board last night and this AM I noticed a multitude of "s&w will make it right!" "...call s&w!" posts and references to the vaunted "lifetime warranty". So I called them.......and sat on hold for 20 minutes. They are BUSY.

Anyways a nice young lady answers and I tell her I need a recoil spring for a CS45 and give her my pistols serial number. Long story short, she insists I need a "recoil assembly". I try to explain that it is not a captive unit like their m&p but just a flatwire spring. She says there are no pictures, just the part number. So I order it and pay her $11.06 shipped. For one. What are the odds I have a CS45 recoil spring coming?

BMCM which Glock flatwire spring are we going to use to run the CS45s? I seem to recall that Springco was less than pleased with the return on their efforts at making us the dual spring replacements for our pistols. Think they may make some flatwire CS45 springs?

Thank you BMCM for all your efforts on our behalf! We appreciate you! Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:42 AM
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When I search BMCM, all I get is the Blue Mountain Center for Meditation . . .
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Old 01-14-2021, 11:58 AM
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BMCM now open for business

Probably the above????
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Old 01-14-2021, 03:36 PM
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Let us know what you receive from Springfield. As I understand it, the spring is (was????) #2633100000. I’m gonna need some too.

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Old 01-14-2021, 03:42 PM
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BMCM now open for business

Probably the above????
Thanks . . .
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:04 PM
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Count me in , I could use 1 or 2 .
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:33 PM
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18DAI, you made out better than me. I also called S&W today, to ask when my CS9 was built (or left the factory). The nice young lady answered my question and when I asked if S&W sold any parts for that gun she said “no, sorry”. What’s your secret?
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:17 PM
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GUILTY. I am guilty.

Doesn’t seem like it was that long ago but maybe it was. I also had been looking for recoil springs for my CS9 & 45. I’d been looking a while and someone posted the alert that Midway had them. I jumped on both the CS9 & CS45 recoil springs and, well I bought “a few”. Sorry.

Like 18 my plan was, (and still is,) to have enough and share with others that need them.

I also got “a few” Value Line mag release buttons and springs when again it was brought to our attention here that they were available.

I’m thinking there will be another run of the springs again and I’m sure one of our great members will let us know. Fingers crossed.

Jim
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:51 PM
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Ed58 I didn't bother to ask them about any parts, just CS45 recoil spring.

Midwayusa.com HAS some CS9 parts available. Recoil springs too - as of this AM.

And Mr Randy Lee of Apex Tactical is going to start producing 3rd gen replacement parts, later this year. I will drop him a line about recoil springs too.

And perhaps some Glock recoil springs can be cut down as substitutes, for the interim. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:47 AM
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I've been noticing reports of these CS45/CS40 springs being 'discontinued' lately, and that is certainly a worry, since we have no aftermarket options for them at the moment. That would be great if someone like Apex Tactical started offering them for the CS guns.

IIRC, there was a forum member here who was experimenting with cut-down Glock springs in these guns. Tom 45, was that you?
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:57 AM
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If I had a CS45 here to measure and tinker with...Quite certain I could figure something out. Unfortunately, I don't have one, nor do I plan to add one to my collection.

You see I've had a couple CS40s here for work (dimensions identical to CS45). I found the hand feel of the gun particularly unpleasant. Not remotely enough room on the front strap for my fingers and the two finger grip with my pinky under the mag was annoying with the 4516 baseplate on there. Maybe if there was a baseplate like the CS9 has that accommodates the two finger grip I'd like it better.

Anyway, If someone was willing to 'take one for the team' and lend me a piece for a bit... Then I can measure the spring space at rest installed and at breech open then check around for a suitable replacement.

I'm not sure if SpringCo can make flatwire springs and they may not be willing to play ball given the somewhat tepid response to the run of nested spring they ran off a few years back.

ISMI springs for Glocks and others are too long. Those come in two lengths; 31 coil for the compacts and 36 coil for the duty size guns.

It may take something like a GoFundme/group buy campaign to raise enough scratch for ISMI to twist up a batch sized just for these guns. Along with the measurements on the gun mentioned above, I'd need a new uninstalled spring to measure as well to determine the spring force at breech closed and at breech fully open (slide hard to the rear)

I think a quick fix off the shelf solution is the Wilson Combat #22 flatwire they sell for sub-compact 1911s

Flat-Wire Recoil Spring | Sentinel« | 22#-https://shopwilsoncombat.com/

That spring fits and is the same part I use when converting a CS40 to 10mm Auto but, Given that I've never personally run a CS45 fitted with this spring I cannot comment on function or reliability. Works ok for 10mm though.

Cheers
Bill
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Old 01-15-2021, 01:53 AM
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Thank you sir!

I'm currently using my CS45....every day. BUT - come warm weather (March locally ) I'll go back to the CS9. So I am willing to send it to you to tinker with along with my last new - uninstalled, spring.

I will Email you to see when a good time for you would be. Question for you. IIRC, regular CS40 top ends will run on a CS45 frame. If the Wilson Combat spring installs with no binding in a CS40 frame, should it not also go into a CS45 frame? Without binding?

I don't know the weight of the CS45 OEM recoil spring. I think 22lbs may be too much. Is it possible to lower the 22lb resistance by cutting coils off?

Thanks for tolerating my laymans/shooter/end user questions! Best regards, 18DAI
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Old 01-15-2021, 11:33 AM
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I would be interested in at least a couple new CS45 springs or useful instruction how to modify a Glock spring to achieve the same thing.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:40 PM
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And Mr Randy Lee of Apex Tactical is going to start producing 3rd gen replacement parts, later this year. I will drop him a line about recoil springs too.
...Regards 18DAI
Ok 18DAI, this is some news here... spill it! What do you know? Are we getting improved Apex parts now? Is this gonna be like how Cajun Gun Works is to CZs or is this just a few little parts here and there?
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:52 PM
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DMcBB here is what Mr Lee has told us, over on another board. He is VERY busy currently, making parts to give current production pistols everything the factory couldn't be bothered to.

But, he said (on another board) he will be making drop in trigger kits, new hammer and hammer springs and, hopefully, some replacement drop in barrels.

We are hoping and requesting Apex make replacement consumables like recoil springs, ejectors and mag release parts. No word yet from Mr Lee on what final products will be available.

Mr Lee points out that currently, 3rd gen parts are still plentiful and readily available from various sources. So there is no "rush" to make parts at this point. As soon as he reveals more info and says to put it out, I will post and share it here in this section of the board. Thats all I know at this point. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:18 PM
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WHAT, there’s “another” board ? Hmm I guess I should spend more time on the inter web.

Great work great info. Thanks

Jim
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:22 AM
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BMCM...you're going to have a CS45 real soon. I'm picking one up tomorrow (Tues. 1/19) and I'll be sending it to you next week for a bit of cleanup work. If you need it to spec parts or whatever, glad I can help. (I also have a 5946 that's gonna need some work. That'll be in the package.)
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Old 01-19-2021, 11:50 AM
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Thank you Redcoat3340! We CS45 users appreciate it.

Oh, good choice on the CS45 too! Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-21-2021, 03:40 AM
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Go look up the Company, "Lee Spring". They just popped up as an ad on my Facebook. They appear to make springs for ALL kinds of things! This should be a very simple thing for them, or some spring making company.
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Old 01-29-2021, 08:54 AM
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I got my package from s&w customer service yesterday.

And.......they sent a guide rod. Not the recoil spring I ordered. Oh well. At least I have a spare guide rod now. Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-29-2021, 02:17 PM
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Bummer, though honestly I'm not that surprised. It seems that I've been getting the wrong parts directly from S&W more often these past few years. You should see some of the things they send me instead of grip pins...

BTW, did you ask for the recoil spring directly by part # (263310000)? That seems to be the most effective way to get the actual parts you're after, and to see if they are really discontinued or not.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:13 PM
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FYI, I just spent some time on the phone with S&W. A very helpful CS person spent some time checking through the computer and finally told me that the CS45 recoil spring is listed as Discontinued/No Replacement. Not even any Back Order. Sigh.

BMCM, let us know what you decide on the CS45 recoil spring when you examine the other member's new CS45. The Wilson sourced flat spring has more coils (21) than the CS45 green spring (18), and the CS9 red spring (16), going by the ones I still have left and just checked. Dunno what the rating is on either spring. That 21 coil Wilson spring isn't so long that it causes spring stack in the CS40/45 frame? If not, that might be a neat solution, presuming it's not too heavy for the standard .45ACP (and a normal shooter's grip support).

I remember the days of going too heavy on .45 recoil springs in a couple different models and seeing brass ejected right back at my face. One of the guns was my old KP90DC. The guy at the Ruger plant chuckled and told me that consistently getting brass back in my face indicated I'd gone just a bit too heavy on the recoil spring experimentation. Of course, he said that they'd also bumped up the rating on their P90 recoil springs by that time, and were no longer using the same spring they also used in the P89 (9mm).

BTW, I haven't forgotten about the Colt OM guide rod job (turning down to 0.26) or the new coil springs, to replace the older nested King's set. Just had too many things bumping it down lower on my list.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:27 PM
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Bummer, though honestly I'm not that surprised. It seems that I've been getting the wrong parts directly from S&W more often these past few years. You should see some of the things they send me instead of grip pins...

BTW, did you ask for the recoil spring directly by part # (263310000)? That seems to be the most effective way to get the actual parts you're after, and to see if they are really discontinued or not.
I have had many orders with S&W.

I never ask for a certain part for a specific model.

I ALWAYS provide part numbers (sometimes the CS reps ask ME what the part is and what it fits) and I've consequently NEVER received a wrong part from S&W.

John
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:53 PM
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I have had many orders with S&W.

I never ask for a certain part for a specific model.

I ALWAYS provide part numbers (sometimes the CS reps ask ME what the part is and what it fits) and I've consequently NEVER received a wrong part from S&W.

John
Agreed, I always have the part #'s listed and ready for the service rep when I call, and I let them know that as soon as we start talking. Most of them seem to really appreciate it.

For some reason though, 3913 grip pins seem to be confusing for whomever is actually finding and packing the parts, as I have received a variety of unknown screws and pins in place of them. I usually pay a bit more and just buy these from Midway nowadays, much easier and they always get it right.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:57 PM
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I have had many orders with S&W.

I never ask for a certain part for a specific model.

I ALWAYS provide part numbers (sometimes the CS reps ask ME what the part is and what it fits) and I've consequently NEVER received a wrong part from S&W.

John
I have.

Even after repeatedly confirming the correct part number on orders.

Matter of fact, it just recently happened with some M&P 9/.40 mag springs. That was after double and then triple checking the correct part number and model application. Then, after finally getting the right springs shipped following the wrong ones shipped, they didn't get the quantity right. I had to call again and get them to ship more springs, like were listed on the original order (when they shipped the wrong springs).

It hasn't happened often, but it has happened throughout the years.

I suspect that now, with some of the parts coming out of their new facilities in other states and with their newer computer systems, it's not as easy for someone to walk over to Parts or Pistol or Revolver Repair to confirm the right part.

Well, then there was that time they shipped half a dozen pistol barrels I'd ordered to the wrong agency. Luckily, it was a local agency and they realized the order had been intended for us. I figured that balanced out, though, since the company later shipped us a box of pistol magazines we'd not ordered (and which had been intended for another agency). I had to call back to figure out where the magazines had been intended to go.

One day I got a shipment of some mag springs I didn't recognize, by part number or the green paint. Turned out they were for the CS40, and I'd ordered more standard .45 mag springs.

You make enough orders over enough years, and you get surprised every once in a while.

S&W isn't the only gun company to mix up parts orders, either. BTDT.
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Old 01-29-2021, 03:57 PM
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FYI, I just spent some time on the phone with S&W. A very helpful CS person spent some time checking through the computer and finally told me that the CS45 recoil spring is listed as Discontinued/No Replacement. Not even any Back Order. Sigh.

...
Well, that really sucks! Thank you for confirming the status on these though Fastbolt. Really hoping that those Wilson Combat springs can be a viable solution, anxious to hear what Bill has to say after he tests them out.
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Old 01-29-2021, 04:55 PM
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Yeah the last couple times I was on the phone with S&W... Well the person on the other end left me with the distinct impression they had just stepped in dog poop. I gave them a part number from the parts list and was told they cannot look that up and demanded gun model number. A pointless waste of time calling them these days in my experience.

Anyway, I think I should have a CS45 here relatively soon to tinker with.

The other thing I'm gonna need is a new never installed 26331 spring. Just to measure, I'm not going to run it in a gun or wear it out, just measure it and whomever supplies one will get it back.

In the meantime, I've ordered a few of the Wilson Sentinel springs. And would offer the following... 4506 and 1006 use the same spring, likewise a 1066 and a 4566 same spring. And as I have had good results with the Sentinel spring in the CS40 platform re-chambered to 10mm Auto shooting WW 175gr Silvertip and Underwood 165gr ball, I think it reasonable to assume that spring will perform quite well in a CS45 with standard pressure 230gr ammo. Or, it may very well be better suited only for hotter loads such as RA45T+p. I'll try out various stuff once I have everything here and report.

Once I establish all the measurements I need, the plan is to speak with an engineer at ISMI and see what they might be able to cobble up for us and how much it's going to cost.

Cheers
Bill
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Fastbolt View Post
BMCM, let us know what you decide on the CS45 recoil spring when you examine the other member's new CS45. The Wilson sourced flat spring has more coils (21) than the CS45 green spring (18), and the CS9 red spring (16), going by the ones I still have left and just checked. Dunno what the rating is on either spring. That 21 coil Wilson spring isn't so long that it causes spring stack in the CS40/45 frame? If not, that might be a neat solution, presuming it's not too heavy for the standard .45ACP (and a normal shooter's grip support).

I remember the days of going too heavy on .45 recoil springs in a couple different models and seeing brass ejected right back at my face. One of the guns was my old KP90DC. The guy at the Ruger plant chuckled and told me that consistently getting brass back in my face indicated I'd gone just a bit too heavy on the recoil spring experimentation. Of course, he said that they'd also bumped up the rating on their P90 recoil springs by that time, and were no longer using the same spring they also used in the P89 (9mm).
I've had discussions with a couple engineers about spring force/weights and whatnot both with SpringCo and ISMI. The point is when a given manufacturer claims a spring is rated for a certain weight, say 20# for example, well 20# where? Is it 20# at full compression? 20# at installed length breech closed, or breech open? In what firearm? What instrumentation was used to determine this? I've been told no two manufacturers use the same criteria for this establishing this data and some don't measure at all but merely calculate the rating based on wire gage, coil diameter, number of coils, modulus of elasticity of the particular steel, etc.

I set up one of my 4506 to use a 20# ISMI flatwire spring. A few folks have asked me why I cranked up the weight so much when the OEM spring is only 14# Well, it's because those two springs feel nearly the same when installed and the function in live fire is such that I can't really tell a difference. ISMI just uses different criteria to rate springs from what S&W uses to rate theirs.

That being said, a single example of anything does not an argument make. Just because my modded 4506 runs well with a 20# ISMI spring does not mean that some other 4506 might need a different rate. However, I think the 20# is a good starting place for that particular piece supported by my flawless results. Such that this particular 4506 spends more time on my belt than any other piece.


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BTW, I haven't forgotten about the Colt OM guide rod job (turning down to 0.26) or the new coil springs, to replace the older nested King's set. Just had too many things bumping it down lower on my list.
I know only too well about priorities getting bumped lower on the list. No worries, send 'em over whenever you have opportunity.


Cheers
Bill
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:47 PM
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I've had discussions with a couple engineers about spring force/weights and whatnot both with SpringCo and ISMI. The point is when a given manufacturer claims a spring is rated for a certain weight, say 20# for example, well 20# where? Is it 20# at full compression? 20# at installed length breech closed, or breech open? In what firearm? What instrumentation was used to determine this? I've been told no two manufacturers use the same criteria for this establishing this data and some don't measure at all but merely calculate the rating based on wire gage, coil diameter, number of coils, modulus of elasticity of the particular steel, etc.

I set up one of my 4506 to use a 20# ISMI flatwire spring. A few folks have asked me why I cranked up the weight so much when the OEM spring is only 14# Well, it's because those two springs feel nearly the same when installed and the function in live fire is such that I can't really tell a difference. ISMI just uses different criteria to rate springs from what S&W uses to rate theirs.

That being said, a single example of anything does not an argument make. Just because my modded 4506 runs well with a 20# ISMI spring does not mean that some other 4506 might need a different rate. However, I think the 20# is a good starting place for that particular piece supported by my flawless results. Such that this particular 4506 spends more time on my belt than any other piece.




I know only too well about priorities getting bumped lower on the list. No worries, send 'em over whenever you have opportunity.


Cheers
Bill
No kidding, Bill. I've been told by one of the big spring makers that they measured their spring rates differently, and probably on different equipment, than one of the gun companies.

Folks, just for grins, I went out and grabbed the remaining recoil springs I have on hand for the CS45/40, CS9 and the 3913/908/69XX, and took these pics. You'll notice that some of them are more uniform in length than others. The CS45/40 springs are a bit "variable" in new (never-installed) free length. The CS9 springs are a lot closer, and the 3913 springs aren't too bad, either.

CS45 springs


CS9 springs


3913, etc springs


Bill, if you can't get any other CS45 springs, I could send you one to measure. Maybe the longest and the shortest? Might give me the chance to make time to dig out that OM and pull the guide rod. Looks like the heavy rains from the "Atmospheric river" they were predicting for us, and the returning high winds, didn't affect us quite as badly as they'd feared. The river behind the house is high and mud brown, but no debris flows in our immediate area. (Some folks not far away were evacuated.) One of the bigger redwood branches that landed next to our house is a little more than 10yds long, though. Nasty if it had hit. Having property in the forested mountains comes with constant costs. Sigh.
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:19 PM
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Bill, if you can't get any other CS45 springs, I could send you one to measure. Maybe the longest and the shortest? Might give me the chance to make time to dig out that OM and pull the guide rod. Looks like the heavy rains from the "Atmospheric river" they were predicting for us, and the returning high winds, didn't affect us quite as badly as they'd feared. The river behind the house is high and mud brown, but no debris flows in our immediate area. (Some folks not far away were evacuated.) One of the bigger redwood branches that landed next to our house is a little more than 10yds long, though. Nasty if it had hit. Having property in the forested mountains comes with constant costs. Sigh.
That's great stuff, thanks for taking the time to post those images. And, I'll reach out if I need a spring or two.

On a like subject for the horde... Should I look into a CS9 replacement too while I'm at it? I do have a supply of those on hand so it wouldn't be much extra effort. Seems like a good idea. What say you folks?

Cheers
Bill
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:42 PM
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Yes please Master Chief! And thanks!

Thank you too Fastbolt! Much appreciated Gents! Regards 18DAI
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Old 01-30-2021, 02:31 AM
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The other thing I'm gonna need is a new never installed 26331 spring. Just to measure, I'm not going to run it in a gun or wear it out, just measure it and whomever supplies one will get it back.
Pretty sure I’ve got one out in the garage. Since it’s 25 degrees out there now, is it alright if I check in the morning?
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Old 01-30-2021, 02:32 AM
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I got my package from s&w customer service yesterday.

And.......they sent a guide rod. Not the recoil spring I ordered. Oh well. At least I have a spare guide rod now. Regards 18DAI
This isn’t rocket science...

Call ‘em back and order a guide rod.
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Old 01-30-2021, 04:52 AM
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Default Flatwire -vs- round recoil springs

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I set up one of my 4506 to use a 20# ISMI flatwire spring.
A few folks have asked me why I cranked up the weight so much when the OEM spring is only 14#.
Using my "homemade setup" (that I feel gives good relative readings), I measured the standard hardball S&W factory 4506 recoil spring (201610000) & it took 17# of force, at full compression (slide fully rearward), installed in my 4506 on a .290" guide rod.

I believe this one is called an 18# spring.

The wadcutter recoil spring (200710000) is called a 14# spring I believe.

.


.


.
.
.

I didn't try any of the ISMI flatwire springs in the 4506 but I did in my 4586, installed on a .255" guide rod.

You didn't say whether you used a GL or GLC flatwire but I played with both in the 4586.

Oddly the GL-20 gave less full compressed force than a GLC-18 did, but a tad more initial force. (see attached)

I didn't have/try the standard (17#) S&W recoil spring (895240000) in the 4586 but I did try Wolff's 19# recoil spring (47919), for the 4586, in it as a comparison.

You can see none of the ISMI flatwire springs (18#, 20#, or 22#) even matched the 19# Wolff round spring even though they are said to be higher.

I got similar results in my 4013 (non-TSW) when comparing a GLC-22 to the S&W factory dual/nested recoil spring set.

Even though the flatwire is rated higher the factory round springs gave more force, 18# -vs- 20#, in the 4013.

.

I would be surprised if the 20# flatwire spring even matched the S&W 18# recoil spring for force in the 4506, especially considering that it'd be on a 1/2" longer guide rod than with my test on the 4586.

.


.


.
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Old 01-30-2021, 03:00 PM
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Pretty sure I’ve got one out in the garage. Since it’s 25 degrees out there now, is it alright if I check in the morning?
Bill, if this is the critter, please PM your address. 414045 is Midway’s number.


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Old 01-30-2021, 03:43 PM
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Bill, if this is the critter, please PM your address. 414045 is Midway’s number.

Whoever added the CS9D to the list of gun models on the package made a mistake. That's for the CS40/45.
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Old 02-06-2021, 06:04 AM
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Default Wilson Combat 22# flat wire spring (10SEN22)

I added one of Wilson Combat's Sentinel flat wire recoil springs (10SEN22), that BMCM mentioned previously, to a recent order from them to see what they are like.

It is almost exactly 4.0" long out of the box & has (21) turns. The one end is closed (double coiled) but the opposite end is not & undoubtedly was cut-down from a longer spring.

Not having a CS40 or CS45, the next closest pistol I have is a 4013 (non-TSW) to try it in. It has a 3-1/2" bbl vs the 3-1/4" CS45's and both are a large frame compact.

Using the same test setup as I've used before I tried the W-C 10SEN22 (22#) recoil spring in the 4013 to compare it to my other prior recoil spring results.

Installed in the 4013 no stacking was found, the slide's rearward action stopped on the frame abutment, not the compressed spring.

It did not register as strong as the Sprinco dual/nested spring set I tested previously (which registered almost identically to a factory S&W dual/nested spring set; these springs are also used in the 4516 as well as the 4013).

And compared to an ISMI flat wire GLC-22 (22# strength & 31 coils) it was slightly less powerful.

After testing, the W-C 10SEN22 had a set spring length of 3.6"

.

For the heck of it, I also tried it in my CS9 which is a medium frame & has a 3" bbl.

It measured several pounds stronger than the factory 16.5 turn flat wire spring but there was moderate stacking on this shorter guide rod; the slide was stopping on the compressed recoil spring, not the frame abutment.

No idea how many coil(s) would have to be cut-off to fix that but doing so would surely reduce it's strength accordingly.

.

For clarification, the (A) and (C) condition readings in my tests below are fully a by-product of the recoil spring only; early partial force & full compressed force.

The (B) condition reading is early partial recoil spring force with the majority coming from the mainspring's force on the hammer against the slide.

.

In the 3-1/4" bbl. CS45 slide the W-C 10SEN22 would likely be a little stronger than in the 3-1/2" 4013 (since the space is shorter) as long as there was no stacking, requiring the spring to be shortened.

Seeing that the CS40/CS45 use the same flat recoil spring (263310000) and that the their slide/barrel assemblies are shorter/lighter than the 4013 I tested in, I would think that the factory CS40/45 recoil springs would have to be stronger than the factory 4013 springs to do the same job?

If so then it would appear the the 10SEN22 spring may only pick up a few pounds of force in the CS45, essentially only matching that of the factory 4013 springs.

Not having a CS45 spring to compare to I have to wonder if the 10SEN22 would even match it's strength?

I'm sure BMCM can add more when he gets a CS45 spring in his hands to play with.

.


.


.
.



.
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Old 02-06-2021, 09:09 AM
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Thanks for your efforts and looking into the Wilson Combat spring BLUEDOT37! Much appreciated! Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-06-2021, 12:32 PM
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USPS says the spring will be delivered Monday.

Any bets?
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:41 AM
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Howdy Fastbolt, BMCM, BLUEDOT37 and 18DAI

I am very late to this game and somewhat out of touch.

I ran into a very similar problem with my Colt Officers ACP and a 1988 modified slide Kings Gun Works full length guide rod and barrel bushing.

that full length guide rod was designed for the dual spring set up. My go to spring place... Wolff does not make a spring compatible with the Kings. So I called ISMI who said to try their Officers flat wire and its sold at EGW.

the ISMI rep said those springs were rated to 15K.

anyway... when buying a few from EGW.... I recall seeing a 3" spring. Not sure if it will work. I mentioned to the ISMI rep that my Kings guide rod was .260" in diameter. He said the Officers spring ID is .263" and said would work.

I thought I would throw this out there.... hope it helps. If not, tell me to get back to the 1911 pages HA!

3" Flat Wire Recoil Spring ISMI 16 lb
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Old 02-07-2021, 02:58 AM
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Howdy Fastbolt, BMCM and 18DAI

I am very late to this game and somewhat out of touch.

I ran into a very similar problem with my Colt Officers ACP and a 1988 modified slide Kings Gun Works full length guide rod and barrel bushing.

that full length guide rod was designed for the dual spring set up. My go to spring place... Wolff does not make a spring compatible with the Kings. So I called ISMI who said to try there Officers flat wire and its sold at EGW.

the ISMI rep said those springs were rated to 15K.

anyway... when buying a few from EGW.... I recall seeing a 3" spring. Not sure if it will work. I mentioned to the ISMI rep that my Kings guide rod was .260" in diameter. He said the Officers spring ID is .263" and said would work.

I thought I would throw this out there.... hope it helps. If not, tell me to get back to the 1911 pages HA!

3" Flat Wire Recoil Spring ISMI 16 lb
Hey! Howdy! Haven't heard from you in a while. Lots of things have happened, huh? They sure have with me.

Thanks for posting the info about the KGW modified Colt Officers. Mine has been modified with the same kit, and it's been on my list of things to get around to addressing. (The damned list keeps getting longer the longer I'm retired, which doesn't seem intuitive. )


Anyway, my guide rod is also 0.260", but when I called IMSI I was told my rod couldn't be larger than 0.25" or their spring wouldn't work?? BMCM has graciously offered to turn my guide rod down whenever I can send it to him, but it would be great if it didn't need to be done. I like the info better that you got from the IMSI rep with whom you spoke. (Better than what I was told over the phone.)

You already try the IMSI spring to confirm it fits easily over the King's rod? You don't need to use the old buff King's provided as part of their kit?

That would be great. A buddy also has a tuned Officers with the King's kit, and we've both run out of the spare nested springs King's used to sell. The last bunch I ordered from them before they closed shop were 22lbs sets. They said they made 20lb & 22lb sets for the OM kits.
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Old 02-07-2021, 09:00 AM
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Hi SW CQB 45! Good to see you here!

Thanks for the info! Hopefully we will find a solution to this spring issue. Good thing we have the s&w "lifetime warranty".

Hey, since the last time we spoke, I think I bought your old 4566 45CQB from Grinder. Great pistol! Do you still have your two tone 45CQB? Please come around here more often! You are missed! Best regards, 18DAI
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Old 02-07-2021, 01:49 PM
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Fastbolt

I got my ISMI springs last night and it slides perfectly over my .260" kings guide rod and recoil spring reverse plug.

I have not shot this guy in a long time and currently the frame is being front strap checkered. Not sure when I will get it back.

I used to run WC shok buffs in it and it worked. This is the part I ordered and I might have mentioned it above, the ISMI guy told me rated for 15K. Not sure about that but I have a couple of spare just in case. I want to make sure it runs first.

Officer's Flat Wire Recoil Spring ISMI 22 lb

18DAI

I unfortunately got out of SW 3rd Gen because I got scared when parts went out of production. My 4566CQB was sold around 2009. I will PM you my serial number to verify.

my only SW besides revolvers is a Shield 9mm that the serial number is keeping me for getting rid of plus its a good piece after I installed the Apex Duty kit.

My smoothest piece was the DPA5906. Accurate and smooth trigger press.
I hardly shot the 4566CQB because I drove the 4563CQB hard.
845 and 945 were absolute joys to shoot.
Shorty45 was a nice shooter too.
I had a 4506-1 and 4516-2 that were tuned by the PC and were very nice.
and I think lastly was a 4013TSW & 3953TSW that out of the box were sweet.

All gone.

Every now and then I see a deal on a 3rd Gen, but I "walk" away. I have also thin my herd considerably just to what I shoot, carry or sentimental value.

I am 31 years in and its not getting easier. In my mind, I am ready to retire but in reality it not going to happen any time soon but never say never... HA!
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Old 02-07-2021, 05:54 PM
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SW 45 CQB I retired from Investigations in 2014 after 20 years. Now a Criminal Magistrate 4 nights/week and Firearms Instructor at the local indoor range. THAT is the best job I ever had!

I am carrying CS45 most of the time, CS9 when its hot/humid.....or I'm lazy. Hence the desire to find a CS45 replacement recoil spring. I'm down to one new factory spring left.

I kept all my 3rd gen 45s. But I did thin the herd back in 2015/16. Got rid of anything I had not shot in awhile and all the target pistols. All the rifles too. Kept the pistol grip shotty and 9mm sub gun.

I did pick up a couple of 3rd gen shooters over the last 6 months. For teaching mostly. To keep wear and tear off my carry guns. How you liking the 1911 world? Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-07-2021, 11:37 PM
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How you liking the 1911 world? Regards 18DAI
Its my preferred platform. Why.... I like the history and its quirkiness.

I sold quite a few pieces to get my 30 year gift to myself.

It took 7 months to get it (after ordering it), it is fitted tight and I will do my best to push it to its limits.

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Old 02-07-2021, 11:56 PM
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Beautiful 1911! Sure beats a Gold watch. Congrats on achieving 30 years! Stay safe! Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-08-2021, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppo View Post
Bill, if this is the critter, please PM your address. 414045 is Midway’s number.

Just a question about this spring. Why is it labelled "Inside"? CS40 only has the one spring, the "Inside" would imply nested springs.

Last edited by BruceB; 02-08-2021 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:39 PM
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Good question. I never got a satisfactory answer when I asked. Mostly just a "I don't know" whenever I asked.

If I had to guess, I'd not be surprised if someone mixed up the language used for the nested Inside/Outside springs of the 457/4013TSW/4040PD models. I was told they'd transferred the 3rd gen Parts info to different new computer systems a couple of times (according to a couple of the LE parts contacts I used to call). You know how things can get mixed up when that happens, especially if someone not really familiar with the guns was just doing data entry.

If you think that everyone at the gun company is automatically familiar with all of their guns? Well, I can think of a couple of instructors who had taught the 3rd gen armorer classes who told me they'd never even worked on the Chiefs Special models, or looked inside them to see how they were different.

That's probably how the picture of the mag catch assembly for the CS (and "value line") guns ended up with the mag spring reversed for so long. Apparently, nobody familiar with the models caught the error when editing the manuals, and inserting that single pic. I was later told by the guy who had been put in charge of re-writing the manuals that he was aware of the reversed image, and had it on his list of things-to-do (which probably never happened because the 3rd gens were discontinued a while later).

Just my thoughts. I've been wrong before, and I'm prepared to be wrong again.
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Old 02-08-2021, 03:55 PM
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I've gotten a bit lost in the cross-chatter here. Has anyone found a third-party source of recoil springs that will work in the CS45 yet?
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:52 PM
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Plans for the test fixture coming to fruition...

Got a smokin deal on a load cell with a display instrument, even had a full battery in it. Donut load cell on the way and the DRO is in the mail stream.

A bit of fabrication will be necessary then once I have everything mounted and configured on a slab of aluminum tooling plate...
I shall be able to obtain precise recoil spring force values for virtually any handgun with springs compressed to installed length and at breech fully open length.

Cheers
Bill
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