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Old 01-23-2021, 02:01 PM
Phil S Phil S is offline
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Default Looking for 59 frame

I’m looking for a stripped model 59 series frame
I realize it’ll have to ship to an FFL but it’s been an impossible item to find for me.
Anybody have any ideas about where I may have neglected to look?
Thanks
Phil
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Old 01-23-2021, 04:58 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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As you’ve probably noticed by now, getting all the other parts besides the receiver is easier... more get stripped down to destroy the receiver than get stripped and the receiver sold. I think if I wanted a Model 59 I’d be impatient and just have to buy a complete gun in shooter grade. With all the search time and what it will cost to buy a receiver if you can find one, that would be faster, easier and in the long run cheaper. Just my $.02.

Froggie
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:01 PM
madsweeney madsweeney is offline
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Speaking of 59 frames . . .
Does anyone have an idea/opinion/guess as to how many rounds you can put through an alloy 59 frame before it starts to get iffy?
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:07 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Originally Posted by madsweeney View Post
Speaking of 59 frames . . .
Does anyone have an idea/opinion/guess as to how many rounds you can put through an alloy 59 frame before it starts to get iffy?
No idea, but that’s why I “retired” the 39-2 I inherited from Dad to only be shot on special occasions and built a Franken-Smith based on a stainless steel 639 receiver. I didn’t want to find the expiration number by accident.

Froggie

PS I will assume that the alloy in a Model 39 frame rivals that in a Colt Commander frame, and I read about a stress test of one of those in 45 ACP that ran 100,000 rounds IIRC, but the gun was definitely showing serious signs of wear and tear when they finished. Like I said, my 39 has too much sentimental value to push it.

Last edited by Green Frog; 01-23-2021 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Add PS
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Old 01-23-2021, 05:12 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is online now
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There is no telling.

Some folks claim to have over 100,000 rounds through their alloy framed pistols.

It is not very common to hear of alloy frames failing due to high round counts.

The very few times cracked frames (alloy or steel) are seen, it is almost always due to worn out recoil springs allowing the frames to be battered.

John
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Old 01-23-2021, 06:43 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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There is no telling.

Some folks claim to have over 100,000 rounds through their alloy framed pistols.

It is not very common to hear of alloy frames failing due to high round counts.

The very few times cracked frames (alloy or steel) are seen, it is almost always due to worn out recoil springs allowing the frames to be battered.

John
Apropos of your last sentence John, has anyone ever come up with a shock buffer analogous to the ones that have been so popular on 1911 frame guns for the last thirty or so years? I know the same design wouldn’t work, but even if you had to rework the guide rod a little to put a bushing of some sort in there, it seems like it could be doable... what think ye?

Your Phriendly ‘Phibian
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Old 01-23-2021, 10:34 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is online now
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Apropos of your last sentence John, has anyone ever come up with a shock buffer analogous to the ones that have been so popular on 1911 frame guns for the last thirty or so years? I know the same design wouldn’t work, but even if you had to rework the guide rod a little to put a bushing of some sort in there, it seems like it could be doable... what think ye?

Your Phriendly ‘Phibian
Recoil buffers seem like a good idea and they were available for S&W pistols when such things were fashionable.

"Shok-Buff"?

We all want to protect our pistols.

But in actuality, they are not needed at best and bad for your pistol at worst.

Their thickness (however small) compresses the recoil spring and can cause it to "coil bind" before the slide reaches the end of its travel.

This puts a shocking impulse through the guide rod and against the small web that supports it instead of the frame lugs where it belongs.

With a healthy recoil spring, no buffer is needed and I've never used them.

John
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Old 01-24-2021, 08:54 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Recoil buffers seem like a good idea and they were available for S&W pistols when such things were fashionable.

"Shok-Buff"?

We all want to protect our pistols.

But in actuality, they are not needed at best and bad for your pistol at worst.

Their thickness (however small) compresses the recoil spring and can cause it to "coil bind" before the slide reaches the end of its travel.

This puts a shocking impulse through the guide rod and against the small web that supports it instead of the frame lugs where it belongs.

With a healthy recoil spring, no buffer is needed and I've never used them.

John
I know I’ve seen it somewhere, but I can’t remember where... what is the “recommended” round count at which to change one’s recoil spring? Is it different for steel vs alloy receivers? Now I’m wondering whether my currently installed Model 915 upper, since it came to me used, should have gotten a new recoil spring during the build just as “insurance.” New springs are relatively cheap and easy to find, but the same can’t be said about frames!

Froggie
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:49 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Good luck finding a stripped S&W pistol receiver of any model. Other than one short lived company back in the 1970's, no one has manufactured S&W's receivers other than S&W. It's not like the 1911 market.

How long will an aluminum S&W receiver last? I'd guess somewhere around 10-15,000 rounds if you don't properly maintain the pistol. That means cleaning and lubrication after use and replace the recoil spring every 4000-5000 rounds. If you do proper maintenance and don't beat it to death with +P and +P+ ammo, expect 30,000+ rounds. There have been reports of 50,000 to 60,000 rounds in properly maintained S&W aluminum receiver pistols and they still functioned well, although the barrel is likely to be getting close to being a smooth bore.
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Old 01-24-2021, 03:27 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is online now
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I know I’ve seen it somewhere, but I can’t remember where... what is the “recommended” round count at which to change one’s recoil spring? Is it different for steel vs alloy receivers? Now I’m wondering whether my currently installed Model 915 upper, since it came to me used, should have gotten a new recoil spring during the build just as “insurance.” New springs are relatively cheap and easy to find, but the same can’t be said about frames!

Froggie
IIRC S&W's recommendation was 5 years/5000 rounds.

Some folks like the idea of 3 years/3000 rounds on alloy framed and/or short slide models (because of higher slide velocities).

Or is that velocipedes?

John
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Old 01-24-2021, 03:35 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is online now
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Hello Phil, just to get back on track, There was a company back in the mid 1970s selling SS mod-39 and 59 frames. I think it was BOLE or something like that. NOS frames show up for sale on the auction sites.
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Old 01-24-2021, 05:43 PM
Phil S Phil S is offline
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Thanks to all for your replies
I have a beautiful complete 59 and bought a repair kit just for future parts in an auction
It was so nice and just missing the receiver that I’ve wanted to build it out
I guess I’ll just have to satisfy myself with keeping my 59 alive for future generations
Thanks again everybody
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:32 PM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Thanks to all for your replies
I have a beautiful complete 59 and bought a repair kit just for future parts in an auction
It was so nice and just missing the receiver that I’ve wanted to build it out
I guess I’ll just have to satisfy myself with keeping my 59 alive for future generations
Thanks again everybody
Not be be too much of an enabler (yeah, right!) if I were in your place, I'd look into buying a beater ("shooter grade") Model 59 and take it out to play often, keeping the "beautiful complete 59" in its current pristine condition. I was in the same situation with my inherited Model 39 and went to a Gen 2 Model 639 for my shooter... and I've never looked back. See, there are very few problems that can't be solved by getting another gun.

Froggie
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:51 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnHL View Post
IIRC S&W's recommendation was 5 years/5000 rounds.

Some folks like the idea of 3 years/3000 rounds on alloy framed and/or short slide models (because of higher slide velocities).

Or is that velocipedes?

John

I'm a believer in frequent spring changes. Recoil springs are cheap and easy to replace, damaged slides and receivers are not.
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Old 01-25-2021, 07:54 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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Hello Phil, just to get back on track, There was a company back in the mid 1970s selling SS mod-39 and 59 frames. I think it was BOLE or something like that. NOS frames show up for sale on the auction sites.

BII, Bole Industries Inc. They made a few hundred stainless Model 39 receivers, not sure how many stainless Model 59 receivers they made before the BATF shut them down. Their unsold pistols and receivers were sold to AMT.
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Old 01-25-2021, 10:55 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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BII, Bole Industries Inc. They made a few hundred stainless Model 39 receivers, not sure how many stainless Model 59 receivers they made before the BATF shut them down. Their unsold pistols and receivers were sold to AMT.
I wonder what kind of gripe BATF had with them or whether they just shut them down on general principles(?) AMT is gone now too, I think, and they got into problems with BATF and just about everybody else.

You know, as much interest as these threads are bringing, and as easily as short runs of this type of specialty receiver could be made, it seems like it might be worth somebody’s while to make a couple of hundred 439 and 639 as well as 459 and 659 receivers. The number of parts currently available cheaply should make such a project worthwhile. This would be a niche market of course, but it should be a large enough niche to be worth exploiting. It would neither be large or sustainable long time.

The advantage of having a Gen 2 receiver available would be that it could also be used with most of the corresponding Gen 3 parts as well.

Froggie
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:06 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
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Well, I just did a Google search to see where everything went, and it seems like eventually the AMT name and intellectual property ended up being sucked up by the Texas iteration of High Standard, which went belly up in 2018. I wonder whether the tooling and jigs to build these receivers still exist somewhere or got discarded or lost somewhere along the way.

I’m still thinking that current multi-axis CNC machinery should enable fairly economical production of even small runs of these receivers... I’d love to hear what others think of this.

Froggie
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:12 AM
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Back in 1974 our department purchased several hundred mod 59's. After initial break in with factory rounds, they then used commercial reloads for training, and WW silvertips for carry. In 1984 during an annual inspection I discovered a crack in the frame of one 59. The crack was at the left rear corner of the magazine well continuing into the relief cut of the safety lever in the frame. The magazine well rear corners were not radius-ed but sharp 90'. These sharp corner's produced stress risers and eventually cracks. I took 20, 59's that had been issued to uniformed officers since 1974 stripped the frames, took them to the Cal National Guard hanger in Fresno and submitted them to the Zyglo process to determine if the frames had cracks. Every frame of this group either had a crack or was ready to crack, either on the left or right rear corner of the magazine well. These were all in the serial number range of 172000
thru 174000 Required shooting was quarterly First quarter factory loads remaining quarters reloads. Also several had cracks from the slide stop button to the notch inn front of the button. this was found in the frames with a square slide stop button hole, i found no cracks in frames at that location that had the later round hole. The number of rounds fired by each 59 was estimated to be 2500 to 3000 rounds. On frames that did not have the safety relief cut and round slide stop button mounting holes i did not find cracks.
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:32 AM
67tempest 67tempest is offline
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Good luck with you search. I have been looking for a 39 or 39-2 frame for years, have never found one.
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