I hope everyone is doing well, I wonder if the experts here can help out with a bit of a puzzle.

A gentleman I know may be selling a 3rd gen pistol but he hasn't come out and said what model it is. He's teased a few details and here's what I know.

He says it has a barrel over four inches, it's a .45 ACP, less than a 1000 were made, he recently purchased compact 4516/4513TSW magazines for it and he paid quite a bit of '80's money back in the day.

For the life of me I can't figure out what model it may be. Any help is very much appreciated!

I'm not sure what gun it is, but it sounds like the seller sure knows how to string a fish...

: )

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

Sounds like a 4506 or variant


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Glen

Those descriptors do not ALL fit any particular model 3rd gen 45.

Closest to containing all those specs would be a Performance Center Shorty 45 (3.75 inch barrel) or a PC 45 Recon. But those, in addition to not meeting all the specs, were made in the late 90s.

Might be a 4516 no dash. 7-round mag. Late 80s build. 3.75 barrel again though. And a little over 5K produced.

He may be misinformed, but well intentioned. And he also may be selling you a bill of goods. What was that Granny use to say? Buy the gun, not the story? Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Commander length slide and barrel?

Compact grip frame and magazines?

Less than 1000 produced by the Performance Center?

Sounds like the ultra-rare "PC CCO 45" that that the Performance Center forgot to produce!

John

Sorry, I've never seen that combination of parts on a "factory" pistol.


Something like this?

Since the model number is stamped on the side of the frame along with the serial number, then just ask him. If he's not willing to say then he's not serious about selling!

I don't spend money when all the answers I get are "could be" or "I guess". There's plenty of really nice 3rd Gens out there without having to deal with being strung along...

Oh no he's stringing me and a friend along and won't give me the model number. It's been a week since he told me about it and I'm at the point where I'm getting pissed. All the specs didn't match up to anything I could think of. He said he might decide to keep it so who knows if anything will come of this.

If you take away the 80's reference, that's it.

Attached Images

PCRECON4513.jpg (84.8 KB, 173 views)

Old S&W forum saying is "Picture is worth 1,000 words".

Sounds like a dyed in the wool ******* to me.

My advice. Avoid this "gentleman" and his childish behavior.

Life is too short to play games with *******s.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

Did he explain why he won’t tell you the model number? Why won’t he send you a picture or show it to you? I personally would not waste my time with that negotiation.

Me thinks he is playing a game.... I had a similar situation with a another person and a reproduction cartridge conversion revolver. He gave me lots of enticing, but vague information and inferences. "It was a rare, custom .42 caliber conversion worth thousands of dollars" He tried to string me along until I gave up. I have been a staff writer for SASS's Cowboy Chronicle for about 25 years, and am a bit of a student of old west firearms - specializing in cartridge conversions, and early Western firearms like1860 Henry/1866 Winchester, Spencer and Evans repeaters, etc.., and it was nothing like I ever heard of!

Later I found out it turned out to be a common Uberti .44 Colt 1860 cartridge conversion reproduction.

I have dealt with this individual before when he sold me my first 3rd gen pistol. It's a 4516-1 that has a compensator on it, some of you may remember it. I don't know why he's being coy about it but I know he's going to want a good price for it. At this time my buddy and I are almost at the point where we're going to pass.

Go cold and dark...... let him come to you.

He's playing games ...... trump him..... let him sweat for a change.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice. The experience and knowledge on this forum is why I appreciate this community so much. I've learned so much from everyone and every day I gain new knowledge. If I have any updates I'll be sure to post.

4556 with the wrong top end on it?

It might be, what threw me was if it's mid size wouldn't a 4516 magazine be too short?

Listen to the Force Obi Wan, that man is definitely strong with the Dark Side. Seriously though loose his number, or better yet have him loose yours. No need to deal with someone like that. Just my opinion.

Could also be a 4536, 4553 or 4583

Sounds like an PC "SD" Stocking Dealer gun except they were only AFAIK made in .9mm .40 an .356 S&W,,,,,,

I have an SD-9; stainless steel 690x frame with a 4 1/4" stainless slide and barrel. Great gun but only 179 made

About 500 SD were made in all three calibers......

PC .45 Recon? has a 4" barrel???????

Does he by chance, work for Canadian Postal Service?

He lives just west of Toronto in a neighbouring city. He's a LE officer and has owned this pistol for some time which he had imported.

Imported? Well that changes things a bit. There were some 4516 no dash guns sent to Germany for evaluation, back in the 80s.

Very few made or sent. Allegedly, some had a hooked trigger guard. But they still had sub 4 inch barrels. Interesting. Let us know if you ever discover what he actually has! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I sure will 18DAI, thank you for your information. I think it's a midsize as it's what we classify as a restricted firearm in Canada. That means the barrel length has to be more than 105mm (4.15").

That's why any 5906 or 4006 here I'd like to own has to be converted to restricted by putting in a longer barrel and modifying the bushing. Prohibited licenses are no longer issued here which you have to have to own anything like a Model 39, 59 or 469 or the above two examples.

The government seems to think that less than 1/4" inch off the barrel means we're going to go on a rampage or something to that effect which is ridiculous. All it's done has denied a lot of great S&W pistols to people that would like to own and shoot them.

So back to the mystery gun is there a production number chart for the .45 ACP 3rd gen pistols like there is for the 10mm models? This may help narrow down what it is.

I wouldnt waste my time, as we all have already, trying to figure out some thing, that the owner probably doesnt know what he has, pretty limited in the 80s.

Personally, I would walk away.

He is playing a silly game.... let him play with himself.

I will never understand what motivates some people.

I'd tell him to go stick it.

If it were me, I'd tell this clown to buzz off and waste someone else's time. When someone isn't a moron and is serious about selling something, they have zero reason to withhold basic information like the model number. It just doesn't make sense. This guy sounds like a real squirrel to me.

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Find a way or make one.

As most everyone that deals with S&W firearms knows his pistol "could" be a very special item that may have been almost a "one-off". Probably not, but you can't discount that fact. Having said that I don't get the Sugar Daddy enticement he has. Either he wants to sell it or he doesn't. He could just be yanking your chain to up the ante, but whatever his game is don't feed the troll. I would just politely tell him forget it, you played me for a sucker long enough.

Rick H.

I'm just hoping it IS a mythical "CCO" 4516 ....with a 4.25 inch tube and top end......Melonite too.

And after Ben Kenobi gets it, he realizes he doesn't care for it and sells it to me.....for $400. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

My analogy is that the seller has a very special custom automobile, that ONLY A FEW WERE MADE., it may be from the 1980s, but he is not sure, it is supposedly a Chevy, maybe, parts from a Malibu can be used (but its not a Malibu), and he maybe is possible willing to sell it, if you are interested....

What a load of nonsense.... I'm 68 and life is too short to have allow a moron to yank my chain...

No rail or integral rail? Asking for a friend.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Is the seller Johnny Cash?

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Thanks for the laughs guys, I'm not contacting him and I'll see if he emails me. I can only hope that's what it is 18DAI, I'll keep my fingers crossed! ��

Well I just heard from my potential seller about 30 minutes ago. The winner of "what 3rd gen is it?" is 18DAI! He correctly picked the Performance Center Recon 45.

Potential Seller (PA) sent me a link to photos of
one that was listed three years ago so I could see what it looks like. I have no idea if he'll want to sell his and he did say the one he owns shows wear from over 20 years of use. So he was wrong on the date, more like it was made in the the late 90's. I swear some peoples kids!

I’m normally a very patient man, and even so, I wouldn’t buy from this “storyteller,” but whatever. Not 68 yet, but I agree, life’s too short for this game-playing nonsense. I’d be politely telling him to shove off.

I am not and have never been patient. That’s why I wasn’t even going to join in the speculation. I did occasionally check in though.

I’m sure you’ll get better replies than mine. There were 603 total made, blackened ones and stainless.

In my opinion the 45 Recons were/are just a “novelty”. Don’t get me wrong as I actually do have one just to have. (It’s a perfect blackened one and it was cheap.) I got my Shorty 45 MK II before the Recon so I was biased anyway. If the one you mentioned is a blackened one and has been used as it should have been, it will be more cosmetically worn than a stainless one if that makes a difference to you. I would expect that you should pay WELL under that $1,000.00.

Again I want to say this just my opinion but I’m pretty sure others feel the same way. Some 45 Recon owners have cut/re-crowned their barrels to make the 45 Recon a more “sensible” option. That would make legitimate sense if you’re not interested in/don’t have a Shorty.

Jim

Thank you all for your valued information and input. We'll see what he wants for a price. I know he sold off the magazines for it years ago (ugh). I don't know if it's the blue/black or stainless model or if he bought it with the stainless case and knife. I have a suspicion that he'll want at least $1000. Like Jim said, it's a novelty to me, I'd rather have a 1076 or 1086.

It's listed tonight for sale.
It's a Performance Center 45 Recon, original box and 2 magazines.
Asking price is $2400.00 CDN

Sorry I didn't post my latest update on Thursday. He emailed me with photos and said he wanted $2400 (roughly $1900 US). After I coughed for a while I forwarded the email to my friend who couldn't believe it either. After our chat I replied to him and said thank you but I can't afford it.

He then posted it Thursday evening and has had almost 400 views but it's still for sale. It is worn, it is the black finish and didn't come with the knife and aluminum case. I wish him luck, it's just not for me in a few ways.

Based on your description of his Recon 45, it is about a $750 - US - gun. Locally.

A nice condition stainless Recon 45 was up on the big auction board this past week. Last time I checked it, it was $1700 - US - top bid. I don't know what was the final price on it.

Nice pistol. But not $1900 nice. For that kind of money, even during the current stupidity in gun/ammo pricing, you could get a nice 4513TSW and a few cases of ammunition.....some nice leather....extra mags.....and a range membership! Regards 18DAI
.

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

On another forum someone has a railed 4553TSW with three magazines, an extra set of Novak night sights, and 635 rounds of ammunition for $1,000.00.

Looks to be in good condition. I'm not interested, but I bet it will sell at that price.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

In today's market, $1.00 per round of ammo, $75.00 each for the magazines, and $120.00 for the night sights, you'd be buying the 4553TSW for $20.00.

John