I am not really new here or to firearms but have not posted in a while but have been lurking around and need some advice. I went to the range today to finally try out my like new S&W 1911 sc. I had brought different types of ammo and Wilson and Chip McCormick magazines( as I am told these are some of the best).

Anyway, I loaded the first magazine with Lawman fmj's and began to fire it and it worked like a charm. I fired it again and thought I had a double shot/burst occur, without actually pulling the trigger twice. So I thought maybe it was just the newness of the pistol and tried again thinking it was just me. I put in some Remington fmj's and with the rangemaster standing behind me of all times, the gun rang out 2-3 rounds in a full auto mode. I had a firm grip and no one was injured and no damage done to the outside range fortunately. The rangemaster noticed what happened and said to only put 2 rounds in the magzine and try it again. And wouldn't you know it,it did it again. All ammo. was factory loaded and the mags. were new. Any one have any clue as to why this would happen? The internals are in like condition and no work was done to them as they are all blued and no bluing wear noted. I called S&W and they said to send it in. I half way thought about just replacing some stock parts myself. Anyone have any similar experiences? I know I should probably just send it in, but am looking for any insight as to why this would happen. Thanks in advance.

Took it out a couple days back and has now worked like a charm. S&W did a great job with the trigger. Buy a S&W with confidence.

Send it in, NOW. This needs to be documented and fixed by Smith and Wesson. The gun should not double fire. Not to alarm you, but that makes it an illegal machine gun and it needs to go back for repair tomorrow morning. Smith and Wesson should pick up the dime, but I wouldn't care about spending the $25/30 to ship it right now. Take it up with them once they receive the gun.

Once again, I cannot stress how important it is for this gun to go back ASAP. The BATFE is extremely strict in regards to these things, not taking measures to rectify the problem in a timely manner could be misconstrued.

-Rob

Sorry, I should have stated I will send it in,(I am a little upset with it right now), but am curious as to why this would happen. I understand the implications this could have and appreciate the concern,thanks.

Your hammer is following the slide down when it goes into battery. Someone has modified the hammer. To test your gun release the slide with the magazine and chamber empty. The hammer should stay cocked. This is a serious problem. Send it back to S&W or have a competant gunsmith replace the hammer and check for proper sear engagement. Bruce

I heard of it happing once to an LEO with an agency issued Glock 22. It only fired full auto for him. The firearms instructors and other LEOs shot it and it worked fine for them. It still went full auto when he touched it. The gun got sent back. Never heard what caused it.

Yes, the hammer is following the slide back when it goes into battery. It is either a bad sear engagement notch on the hammer or a sear that has been filed on or is out of spec that is not engaging the hammer properly.

-Rob

I had checked the slide and hammer and the rangemaster did the same and it stayed cocked. Would dry firing cause problems like this? I can't see that it could,but thought I'd ask.Anyway,the pistol is boxed and ready to be shipped tomorrow. I have always heard of something like this happening to someone else but never thought it would happen to me. I guess it just proves that anything built by man can fail. You talk about one heck of a surprise though.

No, dry firing would not cause this.

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Model 36, 39-2

I have a friend who had a similar expereince with a high priced kimber - everyone who shot got the full auto mode. You should check that another expereinced shooter expereinces the same problem - if he does then you have to either get it to S&W or a qualified gunxmith. One could probably replace all the innards with something from Cylinder & Slide, Nowlin, etc for less than $200.

Believe it or not, I saw a Colt Single Action Army revolver go full-auto some years ago. Cause? The recoil plate (mounted in rear of frame, hammer-mounted firing pin passes through to strike primer) was displaced, first shot had the primer blown out forcing the hammer back and revolving the cylinder again, second shot did the same thing, etc, until the cylinder was emptied.

Something just ain't right with your 1911. Every precision-made part ever made is produced to meet manufacturing tolerances (minimum/maximum dimensions in every aspect). While my first suspicion is that there might have been some junk gunsmithing done to your pistol, it is also possible that you just have a combination of parts (hammer, sear, disconnector, etc) that are all at the wrong end of manufacturing tolerances, and acting together this has created the problem you are experiencing.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

I had a Walther PPK do the same thing for me several years ago. Up until the time it decided to become a Class III weapon, it was my wife's favorite gun. I took it to a gunsmith and he sent it back to Interarms for repair. They replaced parts and returned it to the gunsmith all at no cost. My wife refused to shoot the pistol afterwards, so I used it to trade for an H&K PSP.

Regards,

Dave

I'm guessing some "Home Grown Tinkerer" decided he was going to play with the action on your <span class="ev_code_RED">like new</span> gun and after he managed to "screw it up royally" he found a pigeon - you - to peddle it to.

I agree with KKG. It sounds like a kitchen table gunsmith tried to get a "good trigger" and filed too much on the sear or hammer hooks. If you are the second owner, you do not get a warranty and S&W will charge you for shipping and repairs. If they can see that someone screwed around with the gun and caused this problem, they probably won't warrant it.
Think carefully about what you want to say to S&W before you send it in.

Lobo,

That's a great story! Really!

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Don't even allow a box of ammo in the same room with it, till the hammer and sear are looked into! Even if you need to pay for it, do it! Currently it's as dangerous as a ferret in a fuse box.

Back when I was in LE I ordered a new Mod 645 which went full auto twice the same day at the range. Sent it back to the factory and they found a burr on the edge of the hammer. That corrected the problem.

Julian

Hi:
Consider contacting the Seller and requesting a full refund including shipping both ways.
Jimmy

I had a gunsmith take a look at it and there was nothing done to the parts internally or out. I have noticed a few burrs on the internal parts(hammer), which would be a manufacturing problem. Other than that, all internal factory finished parts are still finished as they would come from the factory compared to a new pistol/parts. I will see what S&W will say and hope for the best.

I have to agree with KKG, and as to being positive that no monkey business has taken place with the hammer and sear, it would probably be hard to tell for sure, except that you have the evidence (i.e., the malfunctioning pistol) in your hands. The engagement surfaces of both hammer and sear would be stoned, ground, or polished and there may be no readily apparent finish change to see that would giveaway a hack job. Unless your gunsmith has quite a bit of experience with trigger work on 1911s, he may not know what to look for.

I would certainly think you have a bone to pick with the seller. It does seem likely he misrepresented the gun when it was sold. If both hammer and sear have been ruined, this will not be an inexpensive repair.

To answer your question, yes, my first .45 Commander came complete with this fault, and yes, it was purchased used, and was the victim of kitchen table gunsmithing. Back then, a new Colt Commander hammer cost me a bit less than twenty bucks, which just about put the kabash on my used gun deal, but since I couldn't find a new Commander anyway, I paid for the repair and was happy to have the gun, if not quite as happy as I thought I would be when I made the purchase.

BTW, when you get your gun repaired, do not make it a practice to drop the slide on an empty magazine. Bruce is correct in saying that the hammer should stay at full cock, but it is not a test you want to do often.

This happened because your gun is "like new," which in this case means that some moron did a bad trigger job on the gun, and instead of properly fixing it, got rid of it.

Your pistol must go to S&W and I would take up the matter of the repair charges, if any, with the aforesaid moron.

With all due respect to your gunsmith, I am betting on a poorly done trigger job and am further betting that the gunsmith does not have sufficiently sophisticated equipment to properly measure whether tolerances are correct. A quick visual to look for file strokes or whatever is not enough.

Some kind of problem with the hammer/sear relationship and the disconnector isn't stopping it.
I had one of the original Detonics pistols that would do this, the short slide moved really fast and hard and made set up very critical. Better than the stainless Detonics my friend had, mine only doubled, his went completely full auto and emptied the magazine, very exciting. Good times, gooooodddd times.
As was said, get it back to Smith and Wesson, even if you replace the parts yourself its going to be a bunch more than shipping and you have no assurance its done right unless fit by someone who knows what they are doing.

I would bet the hammer/sear engagement had been stoned by someone that did not fully understand what they were doing. I fully understand how this can happen as it happened to me when I was still in my "learning" phase. Two shots individually, then dumped the entire magazine full auto. You do unconsciously grab it real tight when that happens. All it takes is a little wrong angle on the stoned surface.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

It was sent to S&W, so I will see what they say. I looked at the parts again prior to shipping and again I could see no filing or stoning marks. The finish on the sear and hammer were consistent to where the parts would mate up and where they didn't, the original finish on the parts was still there. The hammer had all of it's finish on it and only the sear had wear, but it is like I said, only where the parts mate up. When I get it back, I will update with work done,thanks to all of the replies.

There was just a similar thread on a 1911 forum. There someone told that the trigger bow might flex enough to touch the sear (or was it the disconnector?) and prevent it from working properly, which can result in doubles or even longer strings of automatic fire.

Three words: 40 round magazine. It sounds like a keeper.

Well I got my pistol back and it turns out the trigger bar needed adjustment. The sear and hammer were untouched. The trigger bar was the cause as it was pushing on the sear and not allowing it to make contact with the hammer. Thanks to all who replied.

This is a common malady among shade tree gunsmiths who build up the back of the trigger stirrup to "eliminate the 'take up'" in the trigger pull, usually in a "bullseye" gun. And though I'm not aware of any, there may be aftermarket 1911 triggers out there that are longer than standard that could cause the same thing.

Gives a whole new perspective on the phrase "dangerous as a cocked pistol".

I've seen more than one indoor range with bullet strikes down the ceiling from just such a thing. Nothing as dangerous as a "gunsmith" who says, "I've done it before with no problems !" when asked about questionable practices.

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Qui plantavit curabit

I asked the gunsmith at S&W and he said it was stock/factory and all parts appeared as new. Sometimes with production guns this happens.

I'm glad it was gotten to the bottom of!
Question, did the original trigger have a set screw?

Yea... reminds me of my childhood days when I was 13 and we accidentally learned that if we loosened a screw on the trigger group of our semi-auto Remington 22 rifles, it would go full-automatic. We thought we were pretty hip and bagged LOTS of rabbits/squirrels! (on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th shot). (40 years ago!!!) Back then, a box of 50 long rifle shells was only a buck or so, however. But it took longer to earn a buck! Minimum wage back then WAS one dollar.

Yes, it has the set screw in the trigger. I am looking forward to taking it out again as it was pretty accurate, even in auto mode. I was kind of impressed actually went it went full auto, as I didn't even really notice anymore recoil and was able to keep most of the burst on a target about 1.5' wide at 20 yards,(granted I didn't anticipate it was going to be like that, but the group was pretty good).