Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols > Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols

Notices

Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols Other Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols from the 1950's to Present


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-02-2021, 09:33 PM
plantmonkey plantmonkey is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Millican Texas
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 15 Posts
Default Odd Third Gen Performance Center

Picked up this well loved 40 cal performance center from the Uncle Ted Auction last weekend. I have seen several shorty 40's and a few of the Lew Hortons , I have never seen one like this . Anybody have any idea's besides just a straight up custom order ? its the 4006 size , extended mag release , and the barrel porting looks a 100 percent factory .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0550.jpg (59.7 KB, 300 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0551.jpg (64.0 KB, 328 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0553.jpg (28.0 KB, 227 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0554.jpg (21.3 KB, 223 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:51 PM
Sevens Sevens is online now
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,851
Likes: 9,454
Liked 14,841 Times in 5,045 Posts
Default

A Recon is the closest thing but with the PCZ serial prefix, it may be something they did just this one of. That decock lever is something I’ve never seen, the way it’s all dished out in the middle. The Bomar rear sight is an interesting choice for what is set up more like a duty gun.

The script on the slide is also extremely odd. It’s a neat pistol. I can say that I’ve seen MANY from the Performance Center but not one like this. Pretty cool.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 04-03-2021, 02:04 AM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 1,586
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

The PCZ serial number prefix pretty much nails it down as a non cataloged item from the Performance Center, either as a "one off" proof of concept prototype or part of a pre-production sample run to show to distributors to drum up sales interest.

It certainly has an interesting conglomeration of parts... the oversized mag release and rear sight looks like they fell off a 945-1.

I have a 4006 IDPA model made by the Performance Center with a PCZ prefix. From the information I was able to glean, there were 4 of these that were sent to Lew Horton, mine was one of the four (verified by Lew Horton - Earl Minot).

The 4006 IDPA was to be the "kissing cousin" to the successful 5906 IDPA, except... .40S&W in not a popular round for shooting IDPA and interest was insufficient to warrant production.

I did a factory letter on my gun, other than when it was shipped to Lew Horton, there was not any other significant info.

__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Last edited by Gunhacker; 04-03-2021 at 05:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 04-03-2021, 08:34 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 8,757
Likes: 19,465
Liked 11,837 Times in 5,381 Posts
Default

Anyone else notice the lack of a model number? I agree, this may be a one of a kind pistol, possibly a proof of concept or experimental piece. Something like this deserves to be cared for and you might be well advised to pay S&W the $100 for a letter of authenticity.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 04-03-2021, 09:07 AM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 10,578
Likes: 3,066
Liked 22,545 Times in 5,842 Posts
Default

I agree that it mostly resembles a Recon.

plantmonkey,
Is the lever on the slide a hammer drop safety or a spring-loaded de-cocker?

Quote:
Anyone else notice the lack of a model number?
Half of the Performance Center's autoloaders do not have model numbers on the frames.

If you look at a Recon 45 or Shorty 45 nowhere is it marked 4513, Shorty 40s are not marked 4006, etc.

Traditionally, if the gun has a NAME, no model number is on the frame


Quote:
it may be something they did just this one of.
Call customer service and ask for the product code for the firearm in question. Then ask if the serial number before it and after it are the same product code.

So it is pretty easy to tell if the gun is a one-off, but if the before and/or after product codes match, it is very hard to tell how many there were without some information that could be in a Factory letter.

On a tool room sample or a one off, do not worry that the product code assigned to that serial number describes another model. The Factory does not assign unique Product Codes to tool room samples. For example, my Titanium SIGMA's product code says it is a two-tone
__________________
"Acta non verba"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:27 AM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default

It’s quite possible that there was a private buyer who put in a special order for this model. A few employees like the concept and decided to make a few extra. With no association to the original Special Order, these extras needed a prefix and their were given the PCZ prefix.

I would say that there are others.

Does it have a steel or aluminum frame?

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:32 AM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedegs View Post
Does it have a steel or aluminum frame?

Joe
After another look at the photo, I think it’s aluminum. Up and down serrations, not checkered. Though there was a few steel frames that had just up and down serrations.

Last edited by joedegs; 04-03-2021 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Additional text added.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:33 AM
reccpd101's Avatar
reccpd101 reccpd101 is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 783
Likes: 1,112
Liked 1,087 Times in 426 Posts
Default

In the 92-93-94 era, the Dept I headed was issuing 5906s, all bought in a group before 1990. These autos started to failure to eject at an alarming rate. My armorers were getting nowhere with Smith & Wesson. I sent a message to every police department in the USA asking about similar problems. Lo and behold, we were not the sole location with a similiar issue. I shared the results of my survey with S&W and stated we were seeking a replacement handgun that would NOT be a S&W but would probably be 40 caliber. Suddenly we were undated with factory techs and regional representatives. One of their sales/regional reps had a firearm similiar to the blued one above. Two of my firearms instructors and I retired to the range with a case (1000 rd) of 40. Not surprizingly, the look a like ran like a Swiss watch. In a later conversation with the regional rep, he let me know that the blued look a lik was limited production and would not be produced to outfit a whole dept but would be "made avaiiable" to a ranking officer or two that ordered 4013, 4066, or 4006s. At that time no explanation of the failures to eject had been made.

I was dismayed at what I saw as very questionable ethics and said no thanks. We soon bought Beretta 96s had no problems with them. I later learned that a number of depts had a contact from factory service folks had with new ejection springs to replace a a bad batch from a parts supplier. Sorry for the long post.
__________________
SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC

Last edited by reccpd101; 04-03-2021 at 10:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:56 AM
guzzitaco's Avatar
guzzitaco guzzitaco is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Posts: 574
Likes: 1,126
Liked 2,135 Times in 378 Posts
Default

Decock lever seems to be the same as the one in the 3566 Limted with two slides. Also the rear sight seem to be the same...

link to the thread (by colt_saa)
3566 Limited

Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 04-03-2021, 07:03 PM
plantmonkey plantmonkey is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Millican Texas
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 15 Posts
Default

The Safety is a Hammer drop and its a steel frame , thanks all
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #11  
Old 04-03-2021, 08:30 PM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plantmonkey View Post
The Safety is a Hammer drop and its a steel frame , thanks all
Thank you for the answer. It appears my guess was wrong.

Joe
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-03-2021, 09:33 PM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default Steel Frame

Ok, 4006 full size steel frame similar to that of the PCD 40 tactical and PCE 40 comp. Both had up and down serrations on the front grip of frame and not checkered.

Shorty Forty 4006 compact aluminum frame has checkered serrations. SD(compact) and Limited(full), both checkered and steel. I don’t think PC made a full size aluminum 40 frame, did they?

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 04-03-2021, 09:44 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 3,411
Liked 3,156 Times in 1,025 Posts
Default

Dear lord another odd duck .40 PC nonetheless, I love it !

The script reminds me of some guns that were half PC kinda production guns that went to the PC for a trigger job or something and marked as PC....

This is a wild one, certainly looks like a PC gun and everything as such, ill also agree with the above that sound like a bunch of fellas said hey let's make our own up....
__________________
This is the way....
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:21 PM
Sevens Sevens is online now
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,851
Likes: 9,454
Liked 14,841 Times in 5,045 Posts
Default

Good point about the script. S&W added some script and “PC” to some pistols that were definitely not real PC guns, I have no damn idea what they were thinking with those. This one here is absolutely PC, the serial prefix and Briley bushing ensure that.

More than anything, I wanna know what the heck is the story behind the oddball dished decock lever? Colt_saa, you have one of these levers, what is the deal?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:28 PM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default Only One??

Maybe this is a one of one pistol that was made up of leftover parts. Or maybe a one of one from someone’s special order that was their dream gun.

I’ve never seen anything like it. Tough to say with no model number and with the PCZ prefix. It would be interesting to see what’s to come.

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:38 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 3,411
Liked 3,156 Times in 1,025 Posts
Default

The gun certainly looks used, also front sight is a NS, maybe an after thought by the Original owner...

The barrel "comp" looks significantly deeper than and further forward than the recon.45s.(the only one I ever had so maybe not a good compare)

It's such a shame that this um let me say "relm" doesn't exist today in this very market(we all have our opinions of today's S&W), with all the hand fit guns available now its crazy that S&W is not in the game, but I digress...

What do we know ? At the very least in close comparison 3/4 DPA4006s were made ? Maybe leftover parts? I did see a pcz 4006 pc maybe a dpa? sell a year or so ago at auction and that was all black!

How come in today's information filled era we have non on these guns ?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:52 PM
Sevens Sevens is online now
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,851
Likes: 9,454
Liked 14,841 Times in 5,045 Posts
Default

We are not at all likely to get more info either unless someone has Tom Gordon as a friend, or literally knows someone else that actually worked hand in hand with those guys.

I’ll bet a beer that the kids working at S&W right now don’t have access to any records that will tell them specifics and it’s long ago established that nobody there has the knowledge base or experience to comment on these.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 04-03-2021, 11:23 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 3,411
Liked 3,156 Times in 1,025 Posts
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
We are not at all likely to get more info either unless someone has Tom Gordon as a friend, or literally knows someone else that actually worked hand in hand with those guys.

I’ll bet a beer that the kids working at S&W right now don’t have access to any records that will tell them specifics and it’s long ago established that nobody there has the knowledge base or experience to comment on these.
I'll bet you a beer and a wisky that you ask one of thoes "kids" don't know nothing about a 4006 or a PC 4006
__________________
This is the way....

Last edited by Erocksmash; 04-03-2021 at 11:32 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 04-04-2021, 10:15 AM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default Uncle Ted’s

Quote:
Originally Posted by plantmonkey View Post
Picked up this well loved 40 cal performance center from the Uncle Ted Auction last weekend. I have seen several shorty 40's and a few of the Lew Hortons , I have never seen one like this . Anybody have any idea's besides just a straight up custom order ? its the 4006 size , extended mag release , and the barrel porting looks a 100 percent factory .
Wasn’t the Uncle Ted’s auction Ted Nugents? Was personal or collected things auctioned off? Could this have been his personal?

More to come about the pistol shortly.

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:14 PM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default One Of

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedegs View Post
I would say that there are others.
Some info to add... "This looks to me like a "one of" that someone in the PC put together for a friend. This gun seems a bit conflicted with target rear sight and oversized mag release but a DA/SA trigger that would suggest a duty gun, also no magwell. The beat up finish on the SS frame looks like the inhouse blackening, "Black Magic", that doesn't hold up well vs melonite. The recessed de cocker is just a quick custom touch. That lever is same as on single action pistols and may not provide decock function, only hammer block. The PCZ prefix says it is generic gun not anything built for a distributor. Kind of a "Frankengun" to me. It was not a part of the PC model mainstream. I'm sure it is a good shooter and was properly fitted the same way all others were, just an unofficial special built as a favor for someone."

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #21  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:28 PM
joedegs's Avatar
joedegs joedegs is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: The First State
Posts: 277
Likes: 696
Liked 451 Times in 149 Posts
Default Ted Nugent

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedegs View Post
Wasn’t the Uncle Ted’s auction Ted Nugents? Was personal or collected things auctioned off? Could this have been his personal?
Lot number 244,

TED NUGENT COLLECTION AUCTION | Burley Auction Group, Inc.

Joe
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 04-04-2021, 09:49 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 2,138
Likes: 3,411
Liked 3,156 Times in 1,025 Posts
Default

I wonder if I can reach out to Mr.Nugent and get some deets on her!?
__________________
This is the way....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #23  
Old 04-04-2021, 11:02 PM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 1,586
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

Well this thread just got a lot more interesting... if the covered up last number of the OP's gun serial number is a zero, it's the gun from the auction.

It would not surprise me at all, that's it's a "one off" that someone he knew at S&W said, "Hey Ted, I've got one for you.... since you collect/accumulate guns".
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Last edited by Gunhacker; 04-04-2021 at 11:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #24  
Old 04-05-2021, 06:09 AM
plantmonkey plantmonkey is offline
Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Millican Texas
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Liked 143 Times in 15 Posts
Default

It is very much the one from the Auction , and from the personal collection
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0598.jpg (45.6 KB, 50 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 04-05-2021, 04:57 PM
Gunhacker's Avatar
Gunhacker Gunhacker is offline
SWCA Member
Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center Odd Third Gen Performance Center  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF East Bay - "the delta"
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 1,586
Liked 4,495 Times in 1,516 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plantmonkey View Post
It is very much the one from the Auction , and from the personal collection
Wow... have you tried asking the auction house if they know or can contact Nugent to get the backstory on the gun?

This could be worthwhile having a factor letter done... but it's a toss up too. When I lettered my PCZ prefixed 4006 IDPA, all I got was a synopsis of the 4006 model, when and where it was shipped to, and the comment "The company records do not provide good history on the newer units".
__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thompson Center TC/R22 performance center .38SuperMan Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 0 01-02-2021 12:02 AM
Thompson Center Performance Center LRR Bolt 6.5 Creedmoor onebadvet Smith & Wesson Long Guns 3 02-18-2019 08:24 PM
Performance Center 952-2 longslide vs Performance Center PPC9 6" bc1023 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 46 09-29-2017 04:54 PM
Has anyone sent their M&P to S&W Performance Center? sarge1967 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 2 02-07-2013 03:40 PM
627 8rd performance center - double action performance 7-of-9 S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 4 12-01-2008 05:52 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:35 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)