Hey all.

I remember many, many years ago seeing articles and pics in the gun rags about S&W semi autos that were customized to create what was called the ASP pistol. I forget what ASP stood for, but the pistol looked great.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but wasn’t the ASP created for undercover agents and others from alphabet agencies? I think they started out as stock model 39 pistols and went from there.

If you’ve never heard of them, search Google and check them out. I don’t have any pics or I’d post them.
Also, there were 2 sizes of the ASP wasn’t there? I thought one was based on the m39 and the other was off of the m59.

They were cool pistols, I think. I would’ve bet that some gunsmith that wanted a new challenge would take up the challenge and create his version of the ASP. I guess no one wants to try it.

I know if there are companies that can get $2,000 on a tricked out Glock 19, there has got to be a market for a modern version of the ASP pistols. All these S&W fans would LOVE to have one once they seen them. Maybe it’s my wishful thinking.

Oh well....we still allowed to dream about Guns aren’t we?

Thanks for indulging me.
Have a good one.
Larry

The market now is flooded with small , concealable 9 mm semi autos.

That was not the case when the ASP was created.

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LEX ET ORDO

Grab you a CS9.
As close to an asp as one can reasonably get.

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There are several informative threads about the Devel and ASP variants of the Model 39 here on the Forum.

There was a gun writer who had a Shield customized in an attempt to make a modern version. I read the article a couple years ago and you could probably Google Shield ASP conversion and find it. I think the gunsmiths are no longer in business that did the work but the article detailed what he had done. If memory serves me I think it was a company out of AZ that did custom refinishing also.

The Sig 365 has a model that uses the gutter snipe sights like the ASP had.

And as mentioned there are plenty of options available today that grew from the originals so the customized touches come standard

Paris Theodore originally owned Armament Systems and Procedures. It’s said that it took over 200 machining operations to turn a model 39 into an ASP.

As lawandorder mentioned, it was the first truly compact 9mm and was revolutionary at the time. Todays market is flooded with 9mm pistols that are the same size or smaller.

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"I also cook."

S&W killed that goose.

3913, 3914 and the NLs = ASP at 1/5 the price.

The SIG P 365 SAS is a modern iteration of the ASP.

L&O is correct.
The World is overrun with Runt 9s.
Wall to Wall and Having a Ball!
Here’s mine.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Of course the ASP was built on a metal (aluminum) frame... if you’re looking for small and light, you can get Combat Tupperware in smaller and lighter configurations. Add to this how much cheaper it is to produce, and the “Plastic Fantastics” have lots of advantages over the finest ASP or other miniaturized 1st-3rd Gen S&Ws, whether factory or custom. Of course they have no soul, but that’s not their function.

JMHO, YMMV!

Froggie

The 3913 was S&W's answer to the popularity of Paris Theodore's ASP. I thought it was plenty good, and still consider it the best discreet carry 9mm that Smith has ever made. This is my 3913NL, bought in 1995.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

As others have already said, there are no shortage of otherwise inexpensive subcompact 9mm pistols on the market these days.
Furthermore, (and grab hold of something as I'm about to speak profanely here...) the M&P Shield is logically a superior alternative for any of Smith & Wesson's previously manufactured pistols, including expensive custom jobs like the ASP. Yeah, older all metal pistols are aesthetically superior, but any superiority of older designs abruptly ends there. Yes, you can still just as easily carry one of the Shield's predecessors such as the CS9, and more power to you if you do, but they're long out of production, no longer supported by Smith & Wesson, and in the unfortunate event in which one should have to use one in self-defense, it will be confiscated by the police pending an investigation, will most likely have a case number crudely etched into the slide, then left in an evidence locker until everything has been sorted out.
Now I know that the common defensive reaction to such a statement is that it's totally worth it to lose an otherwise discontinued high quality firearm in exchange for your safety, but again, there's no tangible advantage to carrying such a thing over an otherwise easily replaceable M&P Shield, and you can spare yourself the tremendous effort of attempting to convince yourself that it was totally worth the loss.


M&P40 Shield 1.0 Performance Center -- Improved Trigger, Tritium Night Sights, Ported Barrel, chambered in .40 S&W. Just purchased this in January, only cost me $380 OTD.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

So well recall seeing the new-that-month gun mags with the sexy images of the cutting edge ASP and Devel's on the covers - and enjoying reading the articles on their development.
They were pretty far outta my budget, being a young cop.

Still pocket-carry my first 'tiny 9' from when there were very few choices on the market - a Kahr PM9. After the break-in period, it ran everything I could find to put through it. Even with all the plenitude of other subcompacts out there now - just haven't had a good reason to dump it for one of the new whiz-bang models.

The ASP's and Devels were an important step in the development of down-sized 9mm's and they came along just as many states were adopting lawful CC. Great history.

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

Not to mention the supply of suitable donor pistols is drying up. Anyone wanting to do this sort of work on a production line basis would be hard pressed to keep the front end of the supply line fed.

We had a S&W ASP come to the gun shop I was working in back in the early ‘80’s for consignment sale. It was interesting design but we never had anyone show any interest in it. It was expensive and ahead of it’s time. Concealed Carry was illegal by civilians and too expensive as a off-duty gun for Cops.

Take a look and see what one like s&wchad's piece is going for now-a-days . Talk about sticker shock .

A fellow Officer carried an ASP back in the 80's and I had the chance to shoot it several times. I'm a fan of carefully customized working guns and the ASP surely is one. However, IMHO the CS9 or 3913 is a comparable weapon at a fraction of the cost. The same goes for a large majority of the new compact handguns.

A revolver story, but there’s a connection; there was so much interest in my Project 616 (a custom 327 Fed Mag.) I thought about making more of them, so I checked to see what it would take to find a good supply of Models 66 (ND or -1) and the already discontinued Model 617 ND or -1 cylinders and 617 barrels to be rebored. The possibility of getting even a startup supply of a half dozen of each, not to mention a continuing supply, was not very promising.

In the case of an ASP or Devel clone project, one could probably find a bunch of beat up Model 39-2s as donors fairly easily (they’d be refinished anyway) but then the added cost of mags to cut down would be staggering and the supply would likely be anything but dependable. Then again, even less-than-prime examples of 39s are becoming harder to find and more expensive.

The only way I would now consider building a run of semi-custom guns would be to start from a currently produced model so I had a steady supply of donor guns. YMMV.

Froggie

Paris Theodore - Wikipedia

Great thread about a very interesting gun and man.

"One of ASP’s first products was a Theodore-designed handgun bearing the name of the company. The ASP, based on the Smith & Wesson Model 39 semi-automatic pistol, featured many innovations: “clear grips”—which enabled the user to see the number of unfired rounds remaining; the “guttersnipe”—a gun sight designed for close range combat; and a “forefinger grip”—today a standard feature on the trigger guard of many modern handguns. Theodore’s ASP was the first successful service caliber handgun in pocket pistol size. Its arrival inspired a cottage industry of gunsmiths producing unauthorized versions of the weapon, in addition to the authorized factory version from Theodore's ASP Inc."

"In 1970, the ASP was featured in The Handgun, by Glaswegian gun expert Geoffrey Boothroyd. Boothroyd, the inspiration for “Q,” the technologically inventive character who outfitted James Bond with his lifesaving gadgets, would, in turn, later inspire Ian Fleming’s successor, John Gardner, to replace Bond’s renowned Walther PPK as 007’s weapon of choice. Beginning with 1984’s Role of Honor, the ASP would go on to be featured in 11 James Bond novels. James Bond expert James McMahon would later write: “If Bond were a gun, he'd be the ASP. Dark, deadly, perfectly suited to his mission.”

From back in the day when guns were tools and functional art.

I don't have any plastic guns I know they are dependable, fast, high capacity, reasonable priced, easy to replace and combat effective.

That a'int me.. lol

And they got no soul

This. I tried a 469 when they were first introduced, which was an attempt at a 59 based production competitor to the ASP. Didn't work for me on several levels, including weight and I went back to a standard 39-2. My Shield has the capacity of the 39, a similar feel, feeds everything without 'smithing (which the 39 did not) fits well in a front pocket and conceals as well as the 39 IWB (maybe better) and is lighter. Lighter matters more after 18 or so hours than it does at the start. To me it isn't about the gun's "soul" it's about my hide. Shield works, ASP unnecessary.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Still, none of the new compacts look as cool as the ASP

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Looks become secondary when your favorite ASP is dropped on concrete or worse yet, having a case # Electro-Penciled into it by a police evidence tech where upon you may not see that pistols for years and years. Be smart, buy something modern that works when it should and is easily replaceable. Save the ASP's of the world for the range.

Way back in about 1979 I sent a Colt Commander in satin nickel finish to Seecamp for a double action conversion. I was a young police officer and read all the glowing reports in the gun rags about how well these conversions worked and I just HAD to have one. After all it had to be better than an ASP because it was a .45ACP right? I saved up for that conversion for months and waited for months for the pistol to come back to me. It never, ever worked right after the conversion...ever! I sent it back to Seecamp several times and the poor thing couldn't make it thru 2 rounds without jamming. I was not only P.O.'d, but was actually heartbroken in a way. I destroyed a perfectly fine Colt Commander in an ill thought out plan to make it better and worse yet, I spent good money doing this! I was fortunate that I managed to get rid of that Colt but I still regret ever doing that project. I promised myself never again would I do something like that and I never have.

Rick H.

If you can keep “cool” and “soul” hidden away until needed, while carrying it all day, every day and it works for you, that gun is fine... for you. I’m personally still a revolver person with my preference for EDCC being a Baby Chiefs Special, but if I really want to carry it so it’s not likely to be detected, a little pocket 380 or 9 Luger is what I’ll want. The smaller and lighter (even plastic ) the better. YMMV.

Froggie

Wow, and it even had a see thru grip!

Beautiful ASP with all the goodies s&wchad! I never get tired of looking at it. Thanks for sharing it with us!

And how did the shield get into a thread about desirable, custom made, 9mm ASPs? Talk about comparing apples and horse apples. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Great Thread, tons of wisdom and it appears many of you actually carry a gun everyday(rarer than you might think). There is something really cool and soulful about the "ASP" custom gun that appeals to all of us. I have a decent collection of S&W's mostly revolvers, and I want to carry several of them, but at the end of the day, few if any are more accurate than my Shield 2.0 PC and none of them are lighter, higher capacity etc. A few years ago I purchased Mag Guts conversions for my EDC gun making it a 9 and 10+1 gun..even still I had to purchase the Shield Plus...because it is cool! BTW, it really does appear to be retro compatible except of course for the magazines.

My father appreciated the custom compact semi-autos of the 1970s and 80s. Eventually, he had the Behlert-customized 39 and 59, the Devel 39 and 59, and eventually the ASP. Sadly, when he passed, three of the five had disappeared, but he still had the Behlert 39 and the ASP.

Those two have come to me, and it is wonderful to see the quality, innovation, and firearm history that they represent. But it is also a wistful because, like most aspects of technology, their innovation has been eclipsed by evolution.

Below are the two Devels that disappeared (::sigh:.

Maybe it's because I have transitioned over to the dark side as of 2019 and finally started carrying polymer framed pistols, but all the comments about how polymer guns have no soul has become increasingly silly to me.

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with the idea of carrying a deadly weapon that is haunted/possessed by spirits, (it sounds super-bad) and the only soul that I'm concerned with when it comes to self-defense is my own or by extension those of my loved ones, primarily with the end goal being to keep said soul(s) from prematurely exiting the body.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

They tried a "remix" of the ASP in 1998/99.
The ASP 2000
This is a version that Novak did
#2 of 2
My 2ed fav S&W

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“Cogito, ergo sum armatus

I made the mistake of buying a P365SAS. The neat sight shot 4" right and 7" low at FIVE YARDS. This is a common problem with them. Ended up cramming some .005" shims under and to the side of the sight, now it is good windage and only an inch or so high at the same range. A friend of mine bought that sight and mounted it on his 1911. Same story. It is a cool design that just doesn't seem to work without some rudimentary blacksmithing. YMMV.

WHAAAT? YOU actually did that to a Colt Combat Commander? That's inconceivable! Karma is a biocth....lol My Dad gave me a Combat Commander when I graduated USMC boot camp back 77. I took it to a gunsmith and had a beaver tail put in it, polish the feed ramp and ported ejection port, pachmyer grips, a combat hammer and I'd read that Givern put a gold bead as his front sight and so did I.

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USMC Life-GOA IDPA A10051

Agreed. My M&P9 has plenty of soul..lol A virtual polymer sprite! Shooting it is a spiritual experience...lol

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USMC Life-GOA IDPA A10051

Yep, sure did! You have to put it in the timeframe though. DA .45 ACP's were non-existent from the manufacturers so conversions like Seecamp were the only option. Many departments up north and elsewhere frowned on single action semi-autos with cocked and locked carry so one had little choice. The Seecamp conversion was at least at face value a valid choice and of course the gun writers extolled the virtues of such a conversion and rarely ever found anything wrong with them, at least that they reported. I was quite proud of that Commander when I got it back from Seecamp as it looked terrific, but trying to get it to work with any type of ammunition was sheer torture and led to utter frustration. I think it went back to Seecamp 3 times before I gave up ultimately realizing I could not trust that gun in a life and death situation. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement and one that my wife didn't let me forget for a long time. Money was super tight for us at that time as a new cop and nurse (wife) didn't make much and spending a small fortune on something that didn't work did not make either of us happy. Wish I had just left that gun alone and let it appreciate in stock form.

Rick H.

True, but I carry concealed and if I have to draw it on someone, I'm not concerned about his opinion on its looks.

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I need ammo, not a ride.

Speaking of Cool - My Ex Girlfriend got mad at me because I picked her in my SUV and not my BMW.
We were headed to a fairly Dress Up Dance thing.
She wanted to arrive in Bmwer Style, not Truck Style!
I tried to explain since it was at the Convention Center, we would be parking up in the parking garage building.
We probably wouldn’t see anybody except maybe car thieves and taggers.
Didn’t really want to give them a shot at my BMW.
I wish we had an Acura to drive there!
She had one!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I know the feeling, Pilgrim!

I once went to Las Vegas in a $50 Ford.

I came back home in a $350,000...




Greyhound Bus.

John

I'm thinking the Model 469 was the Mother Ship's answer to the ASP.