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  #1  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 PM
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Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract  
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Steve here... three to five times out of 30 to 50 rounds my 52 fails to extract the empty and trys to push up the new round. I cleaned to heck out of the extractor and behind it. I am shooting just at 2.6 of bullseye. But I can't imagine a light load would do that. The gun appeared unfired as new when I got it.I have put 130 rounds thru her
Thank you
Steve
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:00 PM
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Steve here... three to five times out of 30 to 50 rounds my 52 fails to extract the empty and trys to push up the new round. I cleaned to heck out of the extractor and behind it. I am shooting just at 2.6 of bullseye. But I can't imagine a light load would do that. The gun appeared unfired as new when I got it.I have put 130 rounds thru her
Thank you
Steve
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:20 PM
TOM BECKWITH TOM BECKWITH is offline
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Try 2.7, and 2.8 (assume good taper crimp)
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:33 PM
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Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract Model 52-2 failure to extract  
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Thanks Tom,
off to the range tomorrow with some 2.7 and 2.8 loads of Bullseye
Steve

Last night the guy shooting next to me in league was shooting 3.3 of W231 in his 52...Seemed like alot of powder to me for target loads
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TOM BECKWITH:
Try 2.7, and 2.8 (assume good taper crimp)
Tom,
Been roll crimping the case mouth of the 38mid. I only taper crimped my 9mm and 45acp?
Steve
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2009, 10:55 PM
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Different powders with different burn rates require different amounts of powder.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2009, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TOM BECKWITH:
(assume good taper crimp)
Steve here... I understand that a taper crimp will help feed(I just ordered one from Midway) but I have a failure to extract.(The empty case stays in the chamber). The extractor seams to function fine. Could roll crimping or case length create pressure issues that the case won't always extract.
Thank you
Steven
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2009, 07:58 AM
TOM BECKWITH TOM BECKWITH is offline
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A good crimp (roll or taper) is important to build pressure before bullet starts moving.
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2009, 10:34 AM
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I have always found the 52s' required a little more "umph" to properly cycle. Another thing to check is the ejector, I have seen them break off at the tip and not get the empties kicked out every time. I had good luck with 2.8grs Bullseye using a HBWC, if you're using DEWC or hardcast you might need even more of a charge.
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2009, 10:41 AM
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Clean chamber?

Good shooting.
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Homie:
Clean chamber?

Good shooting.
I clean every time I shoot. MY wife thinks I'm nuts
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2009, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by handgunner356:
I have always found the 52s' required a little more "umph" to properly cycle. Another thing to check is the ejector, I have seen them break off at the tip and not get the empties kicked out every time. I had good luck with 2.8grs Bullseye using a HBWC, if you're using DEWC or hardcast you might need even more of a charge.
I'm shooting double ended wadcutters Lyman 358063's and they are just wheel weight
Steve
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2009, 12:57 PM
smithfan4152 smithfan4152 is offline
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I believe to that the proper case length is 1.350, if you wanted to check.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2009, 02:05 PM
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Gil Hebard told me that the 52s' actually used 9mm barrels, and if I was going to shoot DEWCs' to size them .356" instead of the .358". I did try them but found that the softer swagged HBWCs' sized .358" shot as good if not better with less powder and recoil. Now if you are using wheel weights they're probably not that hard, but you might want to size some .356" just to see if you can get by with lower charge weights. I did load mine 1.330"OL but that was more for magazine feed than anything else.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2009, 04:32 PM
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Steve here... Just got back from the range... Same deal, failed to extract. left the case in the chamber and tried to load the next round. I loaded 2.8 of Bullseye.
I just loaded up some sized to .356. at 2.6 of Bullseye again.I will try them tomorrow
Checked the extractor cleaned it... looks new and seems to work fine??? most of the time
Steve
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:11 PM
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Steve, I think your going a little too far with 3.8grs, The Alliant website calls for 3.1grs with HBWCs', I wouldn't go much over that even with the DEWC myself, the added pressure could be compounding your problem. If you got a dental pick check the front of the chamber for any buildup. While you have the slide off, stick a loaded round in under the extractor and see if the extractor has enough tension to hold the round there without falling out.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:31 PM
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Steve,
Will this gun run on factory ammo?
Check your reloads by using the stripped barrel as a gage- the ammo should fall in AND out by gravity.

Good luck.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by handgunner356:
Steve, I think your going a little too far with 3.8grs, The Alliant website calls for 3.1grs with HBWCs', I wouldn't go much over that even with the DEWC myself, the added pressure could be compounding your problem. If you got a dental pick check the front of the chamber for any buildup. While you have the slide off, stick a loaded round in under the extractor and see if the extractor has enough tension to hold the round there without falling out.
The extractor holds a loaded round no problem. The chamber looks clean. I was sizing to .358 and using +p nickel cases. I will try some R-P and Winchester cases and size the boolits to .356.IF that looks promising I will make some hollow base boolits from an old Lyman mold I have, I will try them in WW and pure lead.
Steve
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Homie:
Steve,
Will this gun run on factory ammo?
Check your reloads by using the stripped barrel as a gage- the ammo should fall in AND out by gravity.

Good luck.
All the loads fit like factory ammo. I am hoping that maybe the 358 are too much for the chamber. WHen the fired cases would stay in the chamber I pushed them out with a wood dowel. It needed a little tap with the palm of my hand to nock them out.
Steve
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2009, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by handgunner356:
Steve, I think your going a little too far with 3.8grs, The Alliant website calls for 3.1grs with HBWCs', I wouldn't go much over that even with the DEWC myself, the added pressure could be compounding your problem. If you got a dental pick check the front of the chamber for any buildup. While you have the slide off, stick a loaded round in under the extractor and see if the extractor has enough tension to hold the round there without falling out.
Sorry that was 2.8 of Bullseye. I usually shoot 2.6 in my Colt 38mid National Match
Steve
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  #21  
Old 03-20-2009, 05:45 AM
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Oh, and I did measure the bore...it's .356
Steve
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2009, 11:01 AM
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Steve here... Just got back from the range. Still fails to extract all the time. I tried .356 boolits they sprayed all over the paper. Clearly it likes 358's. Any way I tried 2.4,2.5 granis of bullseye. They functioned and the pistol would go into slide lock most of the time. The 2.6 bullseye always went into slide lock. It has to be the extractor or weak extractor spring I think. Can I get one of you guys to send a close up pic of the business end of a good extractor.
Thanks
Steve
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2009, 11:46 AM
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2009, 11:47 AM
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Here is my extractor...How does it look
Steve
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  #25  
Old 03-22-2009, 10:12 AM
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How old and worn is your recoil spring? You may try a new one.
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  #26  
Old 03-22-2009, 11:01 AM
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OK,
After I took the extractor out, I decided it appeared as new. I believe the pistol was unfired or fired very little when I bought it.
I then looked at the extractor on my Colt midrange and looked very similar. I did notice the extractor had a bit more tension than on my 52. I then stretched the spring a little and put it back in. I went to the range today and it functioned perfectly. Problem solved... I would guess the 35 year old spring may have gotten weak from sitting. I have a new extractor spring and magazine spring on order...
THE LOADS:
The gun fuctions on 2.5 grains of bullseye with the Lyman 358063 ww alloy sized to .358.
Per some of your suggestions I also loaded up pure lead at 2.4 grains of bullseye under the Lyman 358063 sized to .358 also. That too functioned fine and was very accurate. My Colt Midrange liked the pure lead loads as well. The ww boolits weighed 148 ish and the pure lead boolits weighed 151 ish
I found case length wasn't and issue to a point. Rim diameter either. I did taper crimp all these loads and both pistols seamed to go from slide lock to battery easier and smoother, especially with the pure lead.
The 52 or at least mine likes nickel cases. The Colt doesnt care, but the Colt is hard on brass cases because of the chamber grooves.
Steve
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  #27  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:56 PM
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Mr. Z4lunch,
I'm sure you are meaning to spell it Bullet.
You just keep hitting the wrong keys.
Best regards,
BM1
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  #28  
Old 03-22-2009, 02:49 PM
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Steve here... I think I spelled it correct
Here is a link to the cast boolit website, I troll around on from time to time
These guys are a wealth of knowledge for casting lead boolits

bullet= lead with a copper jacket (copper condom)
boolit= lead casting usually wheel weight
Steve

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php
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  #29  
Old 03-22-2009, 04:12 PM
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That's to funny, I had no idea that web site existed.
It is true that you learn something new everyday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet
Regards,
BM1
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  #30  
Old 03-23-2009, 05:27 PM
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Steve,

I hope you don't mind me asking, did you check your powder scale? Several years ago when I first got my 52-2, I ran into same kind of problem you had and I try pretty much every things you tried, different size bullet; new spring from Wolfe, various kind of powder, brass...I just can't get the gun to function reliably. Until I check the scale, to make a long story short, I'm off by .5 gr. so what I though was 2.7 gr. bullseye is actully 2.2 gr.

You said the gun works fine @ 3.5 gr. BE, that sounds familiar to me, my guess is the actual charge is under 3.5 gr. of coure if the powder charge is reduced, you will have cycling and extraction problems. Hope this help and please let us know how it work out.

Tony
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  #31  
Old 03-24-2009, 09:27 AM
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I corrected my typo. I was using 2.5 grains of Bullseye,
not 3.5
Steve
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  #32  
Old 03-25-2009, 06:51 AM
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Steve here... Sot the 52 in Bullseye league last night no extracting issues. My load was 2.4 Bullseye under pure lead 358063 wc sized to .358.
I talked to a tech at S&W yesterday morning about the issue I had. He said the extractor isn't really that sensitive and I should make sure the chamber is polished. He recommended having a gunsmith do the work and polish with emory cloth. He also stated they have been out of 52 extractor springs for years and would cut down and use any spring that fit in the extractor hole in the latter 52's.
Steven
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45acp, bullseye, colt, crimp, ejector, extractor, gunsmith, lock, winchester

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