I know most here....well.......everywhere, consider me a "45 guy". Yea, I can see that. But 357 is still my favorite self defense round - except the threat changed and I don't use revolvers for serious purpose any longer.

45 is my next favorite, followed by 147 grain 9mm. Make mine Winchester Ranger RA9B. Yes, I know all about HST. Thanks anyway!

As summer is here and I am into my decrepitude having reached 60 YOA AND I despise heat and humidity (a high of 42 makes me smile) it is time to break out and clean and lube the CS9s. I have an early black one and a late production LE stainless with ambi and night sights.

I am a card carrying member of the shot placement school. And back when we had signatures here, member Erich had one that the wise folks paid attention to. To paraphrase, shot placement - everything else is Angels dancing on the heads of pins. Wise counsel. And the truest statement I ever read, on a gunboard.

So, I am "ok" with a 9mm for everyday summer carry. It is a psychological thing that I am not as......comfortable with 9mm vs 45. Not a reality thing. In my experience, the "problem" with 9mm is choosing a sufficiently efficient round - for the type of pistol you are using. Barrel length matters more with 9mm. That 1100 FPS the manufacturer is bragging about on the side of the box of their latest death ray ammo? Thats not happening out of the sub 4 inch barrel of your carry gun. And get those dust bunnies out of your trigger guard, please. Thanks!

Back to my CS9s. I have been making a concious effort to train with mine lately. Being I have free range access and can get ammo, albeit at higher cost - but better than local retail, I have been training and shooting drills with the tiny CS9. Which drills? All of them. And have found some I never heard of on Youtube. So I shot those too. And I observed and learned some things......well....maybe relearned some things that I had forgotten.

Speed. Yes, accuracy is final but work on speed. Speed of presentation and a fast first accurate shot. The CS9 enables this. Very well actually. Remember Luke Skywalker sticking out his hand and his Light Saber sails across the room and appears in his hand? Yea, like that.

Accuracy. Again, it depends on the round you choose and two other things. One of those is whether your gun shoots that round accurately. Both my CS9s are "the same model", right? Well, yea, but my black one likes Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P and clusters it into tiny groups out to the 10 yard line. My stainless loves my carry round - 147 grain RA9B. The other thing is a maintenance issue. A clean barrel. Can you see copper colored streaks in your rifling? Clean it. You will have a more accurate pistol. Don't take my word for it, try it.

Comfort. I have read - ad naseum, that some famous gun guy, who writes in gunrags and disparaged a lot of us, some time back, says that carry guns should be comforting not comfortable or something like that. Whatever. Comfort matters because if its not comfortable, why would you wear it? I'll subscribe to something another pop culture icon said "Stupid is as stupid does." Get a comfortable, secure holster that stays in place on a draw and allows a fast presentation. Carry it in the same place everyday. Because in an unfortunate situation, you WILL NOT rise to the occasion. You will default to your training. Ask me how I know that.

Anyways, me and my little CS9 will spend the next.......5 months together, weathering the heat. A great little pistol, that I wish I had paid more attention to when it first came out. But, I had a 3913 then, so........ Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Clint Smith is the guy you quoted and I think the gist of what he meant was that if your carry gun jabs you in the side a little bit, don’t let that little jab bother you. The fact that you carry SHOULD feel really good.

He has another little quip that I like: “Two is one and one is none.” And here he is trying to share the idea that if you got yourself a great carry gun that works excellent for you and you’ve put lots of solid training in to making that gun an extension of you, you should get another one. Because having two of them means you’ll always have one if something to goes to hell with the one you’ve got.

I’ve got a second example of my EDC and I like that! If you love your CS-9 then get ya another!

I hate heat and humidity too. Here in NE Ohio, 42 degree high would be a the tail end of winter season. My preference is upper 60s' with very very low humidity.

Normally, I'd be bragging on the almost ideal climate out here in the Pacific Northwest. Except this weekend we're facing 100 degree heat; only the third time in 75 years.
So I'll wait it out for a couple of days and do my state-booster stuff when we cool down to our normal summer 75 temps.

I too like my CS9 for summer carry; but I find myself taking along a CS45 a lot more of the time. It's a few mms longer and about as thick, nothing anyone could notice and I like them big ole big bullets. I've also got a new-to-me 3914 and that could give the CS9 competition, but the real alternative is a PX4 9mm compact, except I just got a laser for it and need to find a good holster for IWB carry.

We lived in New York and Maryland for most of my 70+ years, and I wish I'd discovered the northwest about 40 years ago (for a lot of reasons). It's really nice here, the Sound and the mountains close by, and the ocean isn't that far away. Now if we can just avoid The Big One (mag 9 earthquake) for a few more years.....

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I like the heat, but not the humidity. Maybe I should move to a desert.

After living and working outside year round in New England, I've had enough of winter.


When I was younger, it was working in the family auto salvage. Blazing hot in the summer with heat reflecting off the glass and metal. During the winter, it meant working outside in the rain, snow, and freezing cold.

Then 35 years in EMS, working outside year round. People think we just go into buildings, but we also had to respond to calls outside. Then there were the fire standbys in winter. Standing outside sometimes for hours in case a FF got injured.

Anyway, I pocket carry my CS9 year round when I can't carry my pre rail 3913TSW in a IWB holster.

We're heading south tomorrow morning and the 3rd Gens will stay home in the safe. I'll be bringing the Mossberg MC1sc because I can replace that fairly easily if something should happen to it. Can't do that with a 3rd Gen.

Oh, my CS9 likes a steady diet of 124gr JHP. I forget what particular flavor. The 3913TSW will shoot fine with 124gr, but it really likes 147gr JHP. Again, I forget the brand off hand.

The Mossberg doesn't care about bullet weight and is happy to push 115, 124, 135, and 147 downrange. That said, it will be filled with the same rounds as the CS9.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I hate that new math. It’s made me a very poor man.

The S&W semiautomatic Chief's Special handguns (as well as the 3913) were ahead of their time and well designed and hold up well to their current competitors.

It's funny. I use 124-gr in all of my 9mms. I like to stock one bullet weight.
However, when I was carrying and shooting (a lot of) 3rd Gens, I had much better accuracy with the 147s. Enough so that I switched over to that entirely just for those pistols. 915, 3913, 14, CS9...didn't seem to matter which. It was almost as if they were factory sighted for them.
Just an observation.

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Because of the metric system?

Easy choice for me. CS-9 is the only one I got for now. Glad to hear the ammo recommendations though. Never tried anything heavier than 115-124 stuff. Sure wish Smith would gear up and make em again. Am sure they realize the profit would be well worth it!!

18DAI: Once again another great posting that I have enjoyed reading!

Thanks all!

As a student of ballistics, I have put in much time researching and testing different rounds. And just about all that time learning - has been with 9mm. There is not as much to look into as far as performance with 357, 357Sig and 45. Pick whatever weight and manufacturer pleases you. They work. A vast majority of the time - WITH GOOD SHOT PLACEMENT! Like I tell my students, hit the miscreant in the eye with a 22 and they will not know it wasn't a 45. Nuff said.

The 39XX series always was a favorite of mine. Fine pistols that still exceed at conceled carry, off duty and back up guns. Reliability hasxalways been a primary consideration, for me. Accuracy a secondary requirement. The 39XX series has both, in spades. Much is written and said about John Moses Browning. I consider him a great designer too.

But I also view Paris Theodore in the same light. He was a genious too. Google him amd see some of his work. He was ahead of his time. Though he gets nowhere near the accolades or recognition that JMB does.

And so was his ASP pistol, which S&W stole much from in the engineering and design of the 39XX series guns. And the little CS9 as the next evolution, benefitted as well. I guess if the 3913 is the son of the ASP, that would make the CS9 the Grandson of the ASP. And it does share many features - with better sights. The Guttersnipe sight was something I found difficult to use. The same applies to the modern Guttersnipe type sighting systems made today by Sig and others. I watch shooters struggle with them at anything beyond 3 to 5 yards.

For close in work? The trench or dot within a dot is useable. But not for anything further out. With the Novak sights, I am getting good, fast hits out to 7 yards with the CS9. Anything beyond that is a little slower and the groups are large. The TercGen grips I have on my CS9s improved my control over the pistol greatly. And until recently, I had a rubher grip sleeve over them. To give me a firmer hold with wet, sweaty or bloody hands.

I just finished tailoring a Hogue slip on grip, with palm swells, to fit my stainless CS9. I will try it in some firing excercises this coming Tuesday. It feels like I have a better hold using it. Shooting with it will tell the tale. And it doesn't take away from the CS9s concealment qualities as even with the Hogue slip on sleeve over the TercGen grip, the grip is still MUCH thinner/slimmer than the OEM Hogue grip.

I still own and carry my CS45 too. The entire CS series was very well executed. I have not owned the CS40, as I prefer a 147 grain 9mm to any 40 round. Easier to shoot fast and accurately, for me. Better penetration in the tests I have observed too. But folks I know with CS40s love them too. Converting them to 10mm? Not for me. IIRC the compact 10mm prototypes S&W did up, on the 4516 and 4013 frames, did not hold up to a lot of shooting. Lots of issues. There is a reason they did not go into production. But to each his own!

Gary, that Mossberg is a nice little 9mm. I often use the Range rental to teach new shooters. As my wise friend Jeppo pointed out, using a 3rd gen to teach new shooters is going to frustrate them when they go and try to buy one. Using a currently produced handgun, that they can easily find - while keeping the wear and tear off mine, makes more sense. Wise fellow! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

See attached

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Those grips look pretty sharp on that CS-9 gr. Mine still sportin the Goodyears but those on yours and the Tercen grips do add to the overall appearance.

I have continued to practice and train at the range with my stainless CS9 over the last few months. And the results show that the efforts have paid off. I have read in articles written in the late 90s about the CS9, that a few gun writers found the CS9 wanting in the accuracy department. I am not seeing that. And I have two examples. One, black, from early production and a late production, stainless, LE Special order. Both will shoot sub 4 inch groups at 15 yards with the ammo they like best.

I have cleaned and lubed the early black CS9 to take on vacation with me to "Murder Beach" SC this month. We will be staying in Cherry Grove just off the beach for a week or so. Wife 2.0 loves to walk Ocean Blvd in the evenings, so...... a little 124 +P RA9B miscreant repellent is handy to have.

With its single sided safety/decocker, TercGen grips, rubber grip sleeve and 3913TSW flat, rounded basepad on the mag, I can carry the black CS9 in a pocket if needed. Not my preferred carry method, but it is doable with this little pistol. A DeSantis Nemesis makes a handy holster for it. And can be used either in a pocket or IWB. Very durable and easily cleaned as well. A lot of holster for the money and well suited to a hot, humid and sandy environment.

So, my stainless CS9 will go into the safe for its "vacation" and I will be using the black CS9 for the rest of the month. I will shoot it tomorrow a bit while working at the range. Great little pistol that was well ahead of its time and went out of production much too soon. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

As you know , my CS's run the gamut . I like them all , and they all serve a purpose . I know you like your 45's , I do too . Why not carry a CS45 ? Mine is beside the bed loaded with 180gr HP's rated at 1100fps I get from Georgia Arms .

The CS45 still gets carried and shot - A LOT! But for deep concealment and light weight - ie no gunbelt, shorts, T-shirt - even the CS45 is "too much gun", for me.

NOTHING beats the CS9 in that role. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

My set up is identical except I only have one and it's stainless.

The gang here is always finding new ways for me to spend money on my bargain basement 3rd gens.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

For some reason no one wants to part with one that I may purchase. I need to be patient but I'm also old!

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

18, I'll certainly agree, the my CS9 is the gun I carry when it is too hot and humid to strap on a gunbelt.

But gee whiz, at least I'll put on shorts and a T-shirt...

John

Can I use this for an excuse for adding another wife to the household?

I’ve added Tergen grips, then KSD 908 grips ( wood)
Still love the 2000 FPS rounds

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The punishment for having two wives is two mothers in law.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

grcoffman104 I fired a mag of the 50 grain Liberty Civil Defense ammo in a shield 9mm range rental a few months ago. STOUT!

As I prefer heavy for caliber rounds, especially in 9mm, I have not paid it much attention. But I will take a look at it. Thanks!

One of the other instructors loves it and is using it in his HK VP9 carry gun. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

This ammo is so light it makes pocket carry easy even with two extra mags in the other pocket!
My first issue gun was the Mdl 58 in .41 magnum to any thing less is less recoil to me!

I was working the range all day yesterday. During a lull, the instructors decided to compete for tiny groups, with tiny guns.

Small 9mms, at 7 yards, smallest group at 7 yards, closest to the X wins. I was wearing my stainless LE trade in CS9. I came in 2nd of 4 shooters. Bested by a young fellow shooting an XDs 9.

Ammo was Blazer Brass, 115 grain Range fodder. Using 147 RA9T I woulda won!

First shot DA is almost on the X. The rest were fired as a flash sight picture was aquired in SA. The stainless CS9 shoots 115 grain low. Arrow/lime shows target orientation hanging from the backer.

If that is an "..inaccurate little pistol.." then send them all to me. Out of a 25oz carry pistol with a 3 inch tube? I'll take it. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I agree!

There is nothing inherently inaccurate about the CS9.

It is however, more difficult to shoot well than its larger brethren.

John

BTW, 18.

If I read your s/n correctly, it looks like VJD5655.

My LE CS9S looks a lot like yours.

My s/n: VJD5640

Roy Jinks said mine shipped in September 2001 and went to an "interesting police department", but did not elaborate.

Do you happen to know the history of yours?

John?

Sorry John, I have no idea. I bought it from a wholesale police supply that dumps LE Trad ins on the big auction board.

I actually bought two......or three....can't recall. This one was most accurate with my preferred 9mm defensive round - Winchester Ranger 147 RA9B. So the other two were sold to aquaintances here, who were looking for a CS9.

They all came with ambi safety and Novak night sights. Great little pistol at a fair price. And it has resulted in most of my carry 45s being retired. Because it is so much easier to carry and conceal the little CS9.

Maybe some of the "experts" will descend from Mt Springfield and share the info you seek with the great unwashed. But don't hold your breath. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

No problem!

I'm only mildly curious.

I got mine from member NavyEngineer (A great guy!).

S&W Customer Service gave me the ship date of 09/19/2001.

I wonder if the departmental order had anything to do with 9/11?

With serial numbers just 15 apart, I would think they would have been part of the same shipment.

Time was, when I called S&W customer service and talked with Joe, he would tell me where the pistols shipped.

But I haven't talked with Joe in a while and the current folks that answer the phone say they are not allowed to divulge that info.

Anyway, if you sold one to NavyEngineer, that puts a little more history on the little gun.

John

Except for the 5906, all of my 3rd Gens shoot low with 115gr ammunition. My CS9 shoots very well with 124gr, so that's what I carry. There is very slight difference between 124 and 147 in that gun, or in most of my 3rd Gens for that matter.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

HA! I know how you feel!

I bought my CS-45 a couple of decades ago, direct from S&W as a replacement for a gun I blew up (long story). A few years ago I found myself carrying 9mm pistols and I decided I should have a CS-9. In a discussion about these guns I expressed that desire and a lovely member of this Forum turned me onto a North Carolina Forum where he had observed a CS-9 for sale, Voila! I bought it forthwith.

You might post a WTB message and see what happens but it's a pretty surefire bet most guys are not selling them.

My CS-9 had ejection problems. Springs have been replaced and it awaits a day at the range before it enters the daily carry battalion.

As an aside, however, let me make a comment about accuracy.

When we all go to the range we all pride ourselves on our accuracy skills. We practice groups at various distances, etc. And I'm the same as everyone in that respect.

However, after I satisfy myself on my accuracy skills and the guns' accuracy in my hands I always train to point shoot. I like tight groups as much as the next shooter but I'm old, too, and I don't want to rely on aging eyes and arthritic anything if I am subject to finding myself in a gunfight situation. So I point shoot. A lot. And I'm just as proud of the results as I am with tight groups, maybe more so, because my point shooting will save my life, not my target shooting skills. Jus' sayin'. I don't argue with experts and law enforcement shooters but what works for me when the chips are down is going to be point shooting. YMMV as always.

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Come and take it!!

He also shamed me into buying one, from that same supplier, around the same time. Unfortunately, he failed to mention one was enough.

Is yours in the same serial number range?

John?

Apparently a bit earlier. VJD50xx.

While we're on the subject of ammunition, does anyone have thoughts of Federal R9HST2?

It's 147gr JHP. I know where some is available at $40.00 per 50 round box.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

The Federal 147 HST is a very good, effective round. It did extremely well in the testing federal LE Agencies did when they decided to go back to 9mm. It may have been adopted as the duty round by a few of them. Dunno for sure as Fed LE choices are not something I follow or care about.

BUT - I do care about ballistic performance when it comes to 9mm. All the other, larger, defensive rounds have a pretty good track record in actual use on the street. But when it comes to 9mm, IMHO, you have to be more selective of which round you choose. Depending on a few factors. Gun barrel length is one. And which round you gun "likes" - ie fires most accurately, consistently.

Personally, I like heavy for caliber rounds. In ALL the defensive calibers. I use Winchesters Ranger 147 RA9B in all my 9mm guns. None of mine have over a 4 inch barrel and all of them shoot it to POA. And it has an excellent record of ending criminal recidivism in actual use.

Here in sunny SC, at the beach on vacation, I am enjoying carrying my black, early production CS9. It is like not even wearing a gun. And last night, eating at a beachside restaurant and then taking the lovely wife for a sunset stroll on the beach, it rode in the pocket of my shorts in a DeSantis Nemesis. Which also serves well as an IWB holster. Life is good! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Thanks. I carry 124gr in my CS9, but that's just personal preference. For my 39xx guns, it's 147gr. Same on the very rare occasions I might carry 69xx. I haven't carried my 5906 in years because it weighs a ton and I don't want to attach the trailering kit. However, if I did, it would be stuffed with 147gr.

Given the price of $40.00/50 rounds in the current market, I think I'll grab a couple of boxes just to have in the locker.

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Can open, worms everywhere.