What do other members do? Keep them in the safe as an appreciating asset or use them as the tools they were designed for and keep them on your hip?

It's much easier to replace a Glock or M&P plastic pistol. I would hate to think about trying to replace a PC gun at current values.

Safe or range only.

I don’t begrudge anyone for their choice, but I’m very clear about what I love and what I like and how I use them.

I absolutely love most of my handguns, but to really love them, they must have a soul. Tupperware guns don’t have a soul. But they are simply perfect tools for carry and defense.

So I am deeply in love with my PC guns and shoot them regularly (some of them a LOT!) but I carry tupperware every day.

I practice and train with tupperware, but I shoot PC guns for target work and pure enjoyment.

I shot mine a good bit in IDPA but it has not been out of the safe much the last few years.
May get it out for next months USPSA Match.

If I had something along the lines of a .45CQB, I'd carry it.

Since I'm emotionally secure, I don't love my guns. Love isn't for inanimate objects. Ultimately, it's just stuff. If I was purely a collector, I'd probably think differently. However, if I was a hardcore collector it wouldn't be over something as pedestrian as S&W PC guns. They're nice guns, but it's not like they're a double gun from Holland & Holland or something.

I'd get far more enjoyment from carrying a fine weapon like a PC gun than I would from it sitting in the safe. If it was given up post shooting again, it's just stuff.

Well, my 6906 is probably my most carried handgun. But I'm mostly at a desk. If I know I'm going to be walking a lot, the Shield 45 comes along.

During the jacket weather hereabouts, I'll often carry a 3rd gen 45. I just like 'em.

Boo! I’m emotionally secure and I totally love my guns. I enjoy collecting them, shooting them, tinkering with them, and the sense of security they bring me knowing that I could use them to defend my family if I needed to.

Don’t shame people just for having a different opinion than you!

This +. My usual carry is a 1911 (either a 9mm lw Commander or my custom 5" steel 45) though during really warm weather it's now the Shield Plus. I wish I could find/afford a CQB 4563 and if I could as soon as the weather cooled off for a covering garment I'd carry it.

I carry(Fancy carry) 1 of my S&Ws unfortunately its not a PC...

Some of my PC autos get regular range time, some are vacuum packed away only to be unsealed at the end of every year to be inspected, then sealed back up....

This year one may be left unsealed for carry I have not yet decided...

Your gun your choice sir.

At least, at the very least one of my NIB PC guns is irreplaceable as it's Julian date falls on my son's B-day and will remain in its condition until he decides what to do with it....

What are the chances right !?

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This is the way....

I carry the Recon 45 all winter.

I keep all my 3rd gen and PC guns in the safe at home. For carry I use the plastic fantastic guns that work 100% and I don't care if they get dropped or scratched up. They are just a tool and in any self defense use they will be probably be confiscated and no telling when they will be returned in what condition. To me there are guns to carry and guns to take to the range and keep in the safe. There is no way I am going to carry a high dollar collectable when a $500 gun will do just as good.

Back when I was still working Investigations, I acquired a stainless PC 4566 45CQB that I intended to use as a duty gun. At the time, I was using an Agency issued 4566 with decock only and spurless hammer, as well as Novak Night sights.

I contacted the Performance Center - which still existed, at the time and spoke with Vito. He was close to retiring and agreed to work on my gun as long as I sent it in immediately. I wanted a forged spurless hammer installed and Novak Night Sights. Vito did the work. And a great job!

Prior to qualifying with the 45CQB, I searched out recoil springs. Long story short, I had to track down Paul Liebenberg, one of the Founders of the Performance Center, to find out what recoil spring worked in the 4 inch 45. I found him at Pistol Dynamics, his current shop. He was a very kind and informative gentleman. And one of the topics we discussed was this very issue - using a Performance Center custom built gun as an EDC.

Mr. Liebenberg had asked why I modified a short production run gun and I told him I was not a collector, just a shooter/end user. IIRC he opined that it was good that I was doing that as that was the intent behind the whole concept of the Performance Center. To give Citizens, LE and competitive shooters truly custom guns that were extremely durable, reliable and accurate - and affordable too. He told me they designed and built all those fine pistols to BE USED AND ENJOYED, for what they were. Exquisite examples of the gun makers art.

I didn't wind up using the 45CQB as a duty gun, due to unforeseen circumstances. But it gets carried and used regularly. And you can bet it is enjoyed every time I do so! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I don't think I could call (real pre-turn of this century) S&W Performance Center weaponry as either pedestrian or affordable from the disposable income point of view of the work seat I occupied when they first came out.

It's obviously relative to the exact stature of your work seat but for a common working family guy even the production 3rd Gen's MSRP was a bit too large to swallow back then.

In later life, with far less responsibilities & financial obligations, the production 3rd Gens are a better buy (which I've shamelessly bought more of them than I should) and I've been even lucky enough to find locally a few of the (new to me) Performance Center 3rd Gen pistols to my liking & at a palatable price.

Standard production 3rd Gens have proven to be more than reliable, durable & accurate for carry purposes.

Everything I buy I shoot, without reserve, however I'd never carry my prized PC 3rd Gens for SD.

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S&W Handgun Catalog Price List 1989
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And some of them are works of art.
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S&W 3566 Limited, 356TSW
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but I'll carry this...
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before this...
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and this...
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before this...
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Waiting for the break of day

Let's say you lose the encounter. Which gun will be harder to replace?

If you're talking carry gun, pick the one you shoot best. What does collectability have to do with it?

For some it has everything to do with it. To many, guns are talismans not tools. Of course, you also have the opposite end of the extreme in which people try very hard to convince everyone how spartan they are by devaluing collectability in its entirety, something equally as unproductive. I agree with BLUEDOT37 in that a box stock 3rd Gen will serve just as well as a defensive weapon as a PC gun, in any way that truly matters. However, for those who live vicariously through their possessions, collectability of same has great importance. In my mind, true collectable firearms are minty Triple Locks, Wild Bill Hickocks pistols and the like not S&W PC guns. The later are service and competition guns taken to the next level buy people who knew their business, for people who know their business and should be treated as such.

Adjusted for inflation, a gun Costing $701.00 in 1988 would today cost $1671.71 Not cheap, but hardly priceless. There are current service weapons carried daily costing two to three times that amount.

I shot my SD-9 for about 4 years in IDPA .... got it used but like new... being stainless it doesn't show holster wear.

A Shorty-9 was carried for years before I got here and learned how few PC guns from the 90s were actually built. It's now semi-retired in favor of a custom built FrankenSmith 6015.

I've got two others that are anib...... a DPA 5906 and a second Shorty-9.

All mine were bought at a rural gun shop well below MSRP or used.

I bought all of my guns new. I have carried my CS 45 for over 20 years. One is by the bed, the other in the safe. All are .45acp.

I have a couple of 3rd. Gen. guns that I still carry, a CQB and 3913.

Attached Images

CQB, 3913 (14).JPG (178.6 KB, 50 views)

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

Perhaps "affordable" was a poor choice of words on my part. Yes, compared to the standard factory units being produced, at the time, the PC offerings were quite a bit more expensive. And the enhanced accuracy from the engineering and fit, was likely not noticed by the casual user.

But IIRC, during the late 90s to the mid 2000s, the PC guns were really not "in demand" or appreciated by the masses. And some really good deals could be had. Lots of people didn't know what they had. I recall paying for a Shorty 45 MKII just slightly more than what a standard 4513TSW was bringing. And I scored the one of one 4563 45CQB for what a LNIB 4566 cost, at the time. Deals were out there - THEN. Not any more.

The appeal of some of the Performance Center offerings were features not found on their standard production counterparts. I wanted an all steel, 4 inch barrel, 45. With Novak sights. I don't do 1911s for serious purpose. So, the 4566 45CQB was almost perfect for my needs. Vitos work making it exactly what I needed/desired.

I get the whole collector thing. I'm just not a collector. And I understand that some folks view guns as an investment. I profited nicely from a thinning of the herd in 2015/2016. Way better return on my investment than playing the Market, at that time.

I view guns as tools for a job. BUT - I came up on revolvers. And I came up when gun manufacturers took pride in their work. Yes, relibility is paramount and accuracy is a secondary consideration. But when I was coming up, in addition to the two primary considerations - asthetics and a good trigger were also included in gun making. Manufacturers made guns that in addition to being bet your life reliable, had visual appeal. And great smooth triggers that were the foundation of accurate shooting. No, not all of them came with a good trigger . But back then we had talented gunsmiths that could produce one. For not too much money.

The Performance Center creations of the 90s to early 2000s harkened back to the days when asthetics and a good trigger mattered. They were designed and put together by "gun guys" FOR GUN GUYS.

And when I look around today, there is just nothing comparable being made. By anyone. So, I am glad I got a few when the getting was good. And I encourage anyone so inclined to save up the coin and get what you want before the availability shrinks further and the price climbs out of reach. I know I will continue to stuff a few bucks into the glass jar in my safe every payday. Because I WILL HAVE a 945 this year! AND IT WILL GET SHOT and enjoyed. Based on the few 945s I have gotten to shoot (Thanks Jeppo my friend!) it will probably take a jackhammer to get the smile off my face too. Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Never said anything about priceless but that's still more than I've paid for any single handgun.

And that's just a standard production model, not a PC model which many ran A LOT higher MSRP back then.

As far as good deals being available back in the day, we know that alot boils down to where you live & how much competition there is between dealers there.

No nationwide visibility & access like now with the Internet.

Again, people with deep pockets can do things the average guys can't but the question was would you carry your (more valuable to you) PC model instead of a (less valuable to you) standard model.

My answer hasn't changed.

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Lew Horton 1997 Flyer -PC 45 Limited (845)-
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S&W 945, circa 1998
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Waiting for the break of day

I think you need to look a little harder. The CZ Custom shop has done amazing things with the CZ platform, and many are shooting and carrying CZs with Cajun Gunworks parts and upgrades. As for 1911s, has there ever been a time when 1911s were better built, by more sources, than today? Nighthawk, Wilson Combat, Guncrafter, Ed Brown, Dan Wesson all make fantastic weapons, and there are a number of gunsmiths making 1911s that are functional art. SVI and others are growing the 2011 market, and making fantastic weapons. S&W's high performance glory days may be behind it, but others are out there.

Hard to say- I bought a consecutive SN pair of PC' s Shorty Forty, as a wedding present for my wife and I. They sit in the safe, other than S&W putting on a front night sight on mine. I can not pry her Custom Colt officers from her strong, live hands. I thought about selling them during the recent craziness. Maybe we should sell them for our 30 Anniversary gift in November? Ideas? Be Safe,

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I’m with you on this one. I had a Shorty Forty for a brief time, and while it was well built and beautifully finished, I couldn’t get past the heavy SA trigger. In contrast, I have 2 Dan Wesson 1911s (TCP 9mm and Valor .45) and a CZ Shadow 2, and they are amazing. Accurate, pretty, shootable… Plus there is a strong aftermarket for both the 1911 platform and for the CZs from Cajun and CZ Custom. I’d love to pick up another PC S&W, but 20 year old plus models cost more than any of the three pistols I mentioned cost brand new.

TL;DR - S&W PC was awesome but CZ/Dan Wesson is holding it down.

As a general rule, guns are not good investments. Sure, they are assets but they will not give you the return some people appear to think. I buy guns to use and my financial guy does my investing. If I sell a gun and break even, then I consider it a win.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Dan Wesson 1911s are outstanding, I have two. DW was my final carry choice before I moved away from the platform for those purposes. I'll but a DW up against anything ever made by the S&W PC. I wouldn't necessarily call it a swap though, if you're like 18DAI and aren't into 1911s for carry.

CZ is doing outstanding work keeping high speed DA/SA guns alive. I keep looking at an AO-1 at the LGS. I don't need it, but man it's sexy.

We're not going to agree, but thanks for posting the old literature. I'm very nostalgic for that stuff.

The only one of mine I would carry is my 45Recon . The rest aren't what you would call carry guns , except maybe my NIB 9Recon . Several of my 945's and my 845 I shoot . If I bought them NIB , I leave them that way . If they were shot , I shoot them . My 845 is the odd ball . I bought it NIB , but after all I read about them , I had to take it to the range . I will never regret that decision .

Ultimately , it's like what's been said . They are your guns , do with them what you want . And we'll never agree on how the PC guns of old stack up against the newer guns . But when you consider some of these are 20+ years old and are still highly competitive , you have to give them their due .

I have several low round count, pristine 952s and 945s that I've bought, which in turn lead to hunting for "shooter-grade" versions of the same guns. Unfortunately this collecting philosophy has often resulted in acquiring two of the same models in near perfect condition; the upside is this becomes a valid excuse for the Mrs. as to why I "need" another one!

How is the finish holding up on the 4563s I read some where that the black doesn't las that long on them ?

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This is the way....

I have:

9 S&W Model 5906
11 Model 4506's
9 Model 4566's
10 Model 1006's
7 Model 1066's
3 Model 5903's
7 Model 5904's

To say that I love smith 3rd gen guns is an understatement, however, these all seem to have been built for general combat accuracy, NOT precision accuracy. That said I've managed to get sub 2.5" groups at 31ft out of my 4506's, sub 2.53" groups from my 1006's with the best accuracy out of one of my 4566's giving me 2.103" at 31ft.

There are folks EDC M&P .38 spls that are 100 years old. They know they’ll get 6 shots any time they unholster. I feel the same toward my 1994 6906 except I get 12 instead of 6. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

I have to apologize first so I don’t get a demerit here.

I am sorry but you are very totally mistaken and WRONG.

Maybe the firearms you bought, (probably new,) can’t be sold for at least what you sold them for, (depending what they were/are.) But I can honestly and emphatically state that the vast majority of my firearms can and will realize much more than I originally paid.

Granted I had a FFL for 20 yrs in the “heyday” of collecting. Those $89.00, $89.00, $89.00 firearms are now being sold for $350.00-$500.00 and worth it.

Getting back on track regarding the real PC examples, there are only two that I have that most likely wouldn’t realize my bought price. Today. That’s OK and not a bad percentage. Maybe I’m lucky or maybe I research and wait. I’ve also had lots of help from members here.

I got a particular semi S&W for $816.00, (on a popular auction site,) that’s worth $6,500 - ????. Not just worth but I’ve had offers and “like” ones have sold for even more.

Jim

Like 4T5GUY guy said above, most you will show a small to decent profit. I too, back in the 80's had an FFL and I picked up most of my collection this way, along with the contents of many a gunshop that went bust. Back then, I used to bid on and win the occasional police bid auction for their older weapons such as the one I bid on for many a Colt 4" Python, nickel plated. I submitted my bid of 189.00 each and they came with duty holster and reloaders and reloader holsters. I never expected to win but low and behold, I did, had to get a loan from the credit union to pay for em. I got em home and after inspecting and logging them em I determined that all but 7 were sellable, I scavenged the parts off of those 7 and made twice as much as I paid for the whole gun. The rest, I ended up selling off for 400 each, but I kept the top 50 for myself.

I think one needs to define "investment " in order to have that conversation. I've never lost money on a gun sale. I tend to hold onto them long enough that availability becomes an issue and inflation becomes a benifit. So in that sense I suppose you could say they've been a good investment. On the other hand, it's never been enough to provide for retirement, pay off the house, or pay for the kids college.


How you define "good investment " is a matter of degree.

Shoot them, I shoot both 6904 and 6906. I found out my point of aim with these handguns like 124gr or 147gr vs 115 gr.

Good investment....

Yea I think they are good investments that serve a purpose or served... I certainly know that guns are ment to be shot but some of MINE I would consider "investments" with out getting in a rabbit hole, my items will fetch a value in 5 years no matter the value of the dollar with a hopeful return...

If not some pretty cool time capsules...

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This is the way....

No. I'm currently an active duty police officer (2000 - ????). My issue handgun is a Glock 45. I purchased my Glock 19 from my agency when I was issued the Glock 45 a few months ago. I figure carry off-duty what I carry on-duty. I am qualified on both pistols and if I have to use them off duty I know that it isn't a big deal to replace them. Heck my agency will provide me with another Glock 45. If it's my Glock 19 it will be returned to me after the investigation is complete; assuming that I am not charged with a criminal offense. The Glock design is easy to carry and I know it well after fifteen years of carrying various Glock pistols. I started out with the SIG-Sauer P220 for those doing the math. My other handguns all work and I shoot them, but they aren't my carry pieces. They could be, but I'll stick with Glock for on and off duty carry. Even when I retire I'll stick with Glock. Not sentimental about the pistol, but know and trust it.

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I type. Therefore I am.

Yeah my third gens stay put away. I carry a Sig SAS .357 everyday.

Well.....I consider myself a relatively new member to the group (2015) Thinking about the investment for S&W 3rd gens...And knowing what some of the long standing members here would probably disagree with me...After reading skjos’s list of S&W 3rd gens in 2015, I began collecting the “rare” & “low production” variants. In a single year I had purchased around 54 S&W 3rd gens for a total of 73 of them. Most were the “hard to find” variants. After a couple of years in collecting, my wife and I decided to purchase a lot on the beach and build a house. Begrudgingly, I opted to sale the majority of my S&W 3rd gen collection in order to purchase the beach lot. Which the sale of my S&W 3rd gen collection actually paid for the lot (beach lots are not cheap!). For me personally It would have been hard to find another investment that would have gained enough positive money interest in the two years I collected the S&W 3rd gen to purchase the beach lot!

My point being! I am back collecting the “rare”/low production S&W 3rd gens just on a more specific focus. The S&W 3rd gens I have recently purchased (1006, 2-1026’s, 1066, 4505, 4567, 5905, 5906 Super 9, 4536, 945-1, 945, 4563CQB, 3566tsw, 1911 Pro Series Talo Ed) are either mostly NOS or relatively low round count. They are my investments!

My EDC pistols are the easy to find “value line” variants (908, 457 etc). I also carry a Springfield EMP 45 & Rock Island 1911 10mm at times. Those are fairly easy to replace. I find it hard to shoot a NIB/LNIB “rare”/low production S&W 3rd gen! I DO NOT have or carry any of the plastic made guns!

As someone else said above....to each their own in shooting or collecting. I choose to collect the rare/low productions S&W 3rd gens and carry/shot the easy to find ones! Hope you guys enjoy either shooting or collecting your S&W 3rd gens!

Just my personal thoughts....

Cheers!!!
David

I have three guns for which I paid full market value (FMV) because they were bought brand new in the box. All of my other guns were bought at less than FMV. And while they are not new and I didn't set out to create a collection I do know that they will provide a fair to better than average return on my money. Not enough to retire on but they will provide me with a bit of spending cash when times get hard. And if it all goes up in smoke then I'll be able to keep the wolves from the door for a week or two. All of my guns are shooters regardless of why or how I got them except for two which will go to my sons when I no longer have need for air.

I have a 6906 and a 4506. Both have square trigger guards. They stay locked up except for range fun. My nightstand gun is a SD9VE and my CC is an early LCP.

Whenever I go out to my youngest daughter's house my SIL always asks "so...Pops....how are my guns doing?"

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

No way! Range only and stay in the safe the rest of the time. Hard pass on EDC (or even occasional carry) for two reasons, and either is enough on it's own. I would need to have a ton of practice with a PC model to come close to the proficiency I have developed over the years with a Glock. Add to that if I was ever involved in an incident where I had to turn in my carry piece to the police for an undetermined length of time, a $500 Glock is quite replaceable compared to the 1 of 200 made (or fewer) $2000+ PC models. I won't even keep one under my pillow. Of course if you are just starting out and/or have money to burn then my reasons are silly.

On an interesting side note I met a LEO that claims to carry a 3566 Compact as his EDC. I thought that was the coolest thing I had heard in a long time.

What are PC guns?

First PC = Performance Center. Started in the early 1990s by a handful of S&W Gunsmiths..... they built limited runs of special/ unique S&W autos.

I posted in this thread above #17

The odds of most of us actually discharging your handgun in self-defense is slight.... but if you find yourself needing to ..... it will probably be one of the most important moments in your life. If you don't come out the other end.... then the disposition of the gun won't matter. If you do prevail; then the "loss" of a PC gun worth $1500-? will seem trivial and well worth the cost.

My one Shorty-9s was carried for years; in a good Milt Sparks holster, it shows honest wear.... so does my Dad Service Revolver a 1938 .357 Colt New Service. My Dad's gun is a family heirloom..... my Shorty is a friend that still accompanies me from time to time!

Decades ago, I bought into the "Two is one,One is none" idea. I'm lucky enough to have procured a backup,or two, to each of my carry guns...... so I'm set!

Carry it ,and choot it.

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2 Cor 5:17
John3:16