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Old 09-19-2021, 09:33 AM
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Question 52-2 converted to 9mm?

No idea how to search the forum for prior discussions of this topic.

Anyone tried this? Iím under the impression 9mm barrels have been produced in the past. Iím also wondering whether anyone has tried 39 or 59 slides on a 52.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:37 AM
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IIRC saw a 952 at a show few years ago, 9mm version of 52?
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:53 AM
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This is from Sevens on a previous thread:
Weíve heard of the existence of these before and as far as I can recall, they almost always end up being some in-house creations that end up out in the wild as a result of something an employee did for himself or something special made for some VIP, but no, never anything that an average customer or even a stocking dealer could call up and order.

If the 52 had continued on past 1993, we might have seen the Performance Center doing things like this, because they did things very much along the same lines with PC guns of the day.

Found this searching ď52-2 conversionĒ

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Old 09-19-2021, 10:01 AM
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I have a friend that owns a 52 that belonged to the Illinois State Police Pistol Team. When he bought the pistol a Model 39 upper came with the gun. The story is that their armorer had gotten the upper and modified them to function on the 52 frames. The one he has fits and works, nowhere near as accurate as when set up as a 52 though.
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Old 09-19-2021, 11:22 AM
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Here you go:

Model 52-2 with 9MM slide & bbl.
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Old 09-19-2021, 02:11 PM
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The performance Center 952 was available in a couple different variations. If you had $2500 to $4000 you could buy one.
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Old 09-19-2021, 02:29 PM
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Yeah, I feel that I missed the boat on the 952-0. Lots less interest after they added the grip safety.
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Old 09-19-2021, 04:19 PM
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Default Sounds Very Interesting

Hope you and all the S&W Semi-Auto gurus learn that there is something we can try if it is feasible and actually works. I am not a re-loader so am not able to make my own .38 Special Wadcutter ammunition. By the way "GURUS" is meant to be a compliment.
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Old 09-19-2021, 04:35 PM
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Wink Iím not convinced

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitholdtimer View Post
Hope you and all the S&W Semi-Auto gurus learn that there is something we can try if it is feasible and actually works. I am not a re-loader so am not able to make my own .38 Special Wadcutter ammunition. By the way "GURUS" is meant to be a compliment.
I also donít reload and thatís one of the motivations for trying to solve this conundrum. My 52-2 is a sensational gun and the idea of being able to load ďreadily availableĒ (whatever that means today) ammo is tempting.

Motivated by a mutual friend in South Carolina, Iíve spent the afternoon trying various other ďtop endsĒ on the 52 frame. A 39-2 slide fits, the gun hand cycles perfectly, it feeds and ejects 9mm snap caps (from the 39 magazine) and fires a pencil almost to the ceiling.

However, it seems to me the 52ís accuracy results not only from the amazing trigger but also the barrel to slide and bushing fit. So, while I suppose this Frankengun might actually function, Iíd be afraid Iíd be disappointed by the accuracy.
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Old 09-19-2021, 05:44 PM
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Hope you and all the S&W Semi-Auto gurus learn that there is something we can try if it is feasible and actually works. I am not a re-loader so am not able to make my own .38 Special Wadcutter ammunition. By the way "GURUS" is meant to be a compliment.
Do you know anyone who does reload? Ask to use their press. If you can find components then you are in business. Most reloaders will be glad to teach you and there is always YouTube.
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Old 09-19-2021, 06:05 PM
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Im still looking for a 52 in .30 Luger and 38AMU.
Anybody see one or have onw, pls. PM me. Mike
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Old 09-19-2021, 07:48 PM
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Angry WHY????

This came up in a thread a few months ago.

The whole idea is absurd.

Just about EVERY gun shop in the nation has dumpster loads of 9mm handguns. It's almost to the point where it's only thing you can get! Do we really need to be converting guns just to have yet one more 9mm?
If you want a 9mm, go buy a 9mm!!

Please leave something like a nice model 52 to the guys who do reload 38 and who may actually be target shooters!!
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Old 09-20-2021, 10:55 AM
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Default Hello 6string

I cannot speak for jeppo but in my mind I was thinking of something similar to the .22 LR Rifle conversion kit for the M-1911A1. Not intending to make any permanent alterations just something to facilitate having a duel caliber handgun as accurate firing the 9mm as with the .38 Special. I would think it to be sac-religious to permanently alter the M-52.

I attempted to clarify my thinking by editing the original post
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Old 09-20-2021, 11:14 AM
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To get a .22 upper for a 39/52 frame would take some serious money. While some of the owners of these pistols may opt for a conversion unit, I do not think there would be enough interest in it to may it cost effective. If you want the one frame, several uppers concept look to the Eaa Witness pistols. A friend has several uppers that will fit on one frame.
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Old 09-20-2021, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
saw a 952 at a show few years ago, 9mm version of 52?
A 952 is not a Model 52 in 9mm.

It is an accurized Model 39

Now the 952 is a very attractive pistol on it's own. That just does not give enough of a return on the investment necessary when buying one.


Quote:
However, it seems to me the 52ís accuracy results not only from the amazing trigger but also the barrel to slide and bushing fit. So, while I suppose this Frankengun might actually function, Iíd be afraid Iíd be disappointed by the accuracy.
Exactly.

There have been several folks that have made the Model 39 slide work, but it was just not satisfying enough
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Old 09-20-2021, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
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The performance Center 952 was available in a couple different variations. If you had $2500 to $4000 you could buy one.
A guy I knew in Va. that had a reloading business had one at a show. I was buying some 38 wadcutters and mentioned the 52. He said look at this and pulled his from under the table. Remember asking him how accurate it was, he said close to a .38. Thats been back quite a few years. Said it was ď cheaperĒ to load for. Donít think I asked what projectile he used. BTW, this guy had plenty of $$$$, lol.
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Old 09-20-2021, 02:29 PM
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To get a .22 upper for a 39/52 frame would take some serious money. While some of the owners of these pistols may opt for a conversion unit, I do not think there would be enough interest in it to may it cost effective. If you want the one frame, several uppers concept look to the Eaa Witness pistols. A friend has several uppers that will fit on one frame.
Pachmayr sold just such a conversion unit many years ago; IIRC it was something they copied from or marketed for some outfit in Germany. I've got one in the basement, but I've never had it on my 52-2.

From the advertisements, it should just be a field strip and reassemble operation to make the conversion. I don't know about the level of accuracy, but the same company also made the same style kit for a Colt Gov't Model.

Froggie
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Old 09-20-2021, 03:44 PM
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Pachmayr sold just such a conversion unit many years ago; IIRC it was something they copied from or marketed for some outfit in Germany. I've got one in the basement, but I've never had it on my 52-2.

From the advertisements, it should just be a field strip and reassemble operation to make the conversion. I don't know about the level of accuracy, but the same company also made the same style kit for a Colt Gov't Model.

Froggie
Would like to see it if possible. Thanks for the info.

I have Colt Conversion Unit for my Gold Cup. Bought them both from my LGS. Had come in through the door.
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Old 09-20-2021, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
Pachmayr sold just such a conversion unit many years ago; IIRC it was something they copied from or marketed for some outfit in Germany. I've got one in the basement, but I've never had it on my 52-2.

From the advertisements, it should just be a field strip and reassemble operation to make the conversion. I don't know about the level of accuracy, but the same company also made the same style kit for a Colt Gov't Model.

Froggie

It may have been Peters-Stahl (?) or something like that.
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Old 09-20-2021, 04:43 PM
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9mm magazines are rather loose in a 52
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Old 09-20-2021, 09:02 PM
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AJ,

Here is the Conversion Kit I mentioned. AFAIK, the gunsmith from whose estate I got it may have assembled it on his Model 52, , but it looks unused. Notice that he added a second magazine which, while different in finish, appears to have been chosen to match in function.
As for price, Iíve only seen one for sale (on Gun Broker) and it had an asking price commensurate to a rare collectible, which I guess is appropriate.

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Old 09-20-2021, 09:09 PM
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RWJ,

Youíre rightÖ the company I was thinking of was Peters-Stahl, gmbh of Germany. I donít know what if any the connection was back then.

Froggie

PS I did a quick Google search and Pachmayr did market the for P-SÖ but only for about a year or two, apparently.

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Old 09-20-2021, 09:20 PM
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S&W only made one model to shoot the 38WC cartridge. Everybody makes 9mm pistols. Why would you want to change a M52 to shoot 9mm?
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Old 09-20-2021, 09:30 PM
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This current thread isn’t the first one we’ve had here.

.22 conversion for 39

Froggie
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Old 09-20-2021, 09:38 PM
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S&W only made one model to shoot the 38WC cartridge. Everybody makes 9mm pistols. Why would you want to change a M52 to shoot 9mm?
In Germany there was a limit at one time of one each, handgun, rifle, and shotgun per citizen. The multi-caliber concept is a good one under those circumstances.

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Old 09-21-2021, 07:50 AM
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AJ,

Here is the Conversion Kit I mentioned. AFAIK, the gunsmith from whose estate I got it may have assembled it on his Model 52, , but it looks unused. Notice that he added a second magazine which, while different in finish, appears to have been chosen to match in function.
As for price, Iíve only seen one for sale (on Gun Broker) and it had an asking price commensurate to a rare collectible, which I guess is appropriate.

Froggie
Something new to be on the hunt for! Thanks!

AJ
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:06 AM
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AJ,

Due to its rarity, the price on one of these conversions will approach that of a Model 41, so converting an already expensive Model 52 would probably be a money losing proposition for what would probably be just an OK performer. While I know there are some conversions that work great, I wouldnít try to build my Bullseye battery around this one, YMMV.

My reason for posting this into the thread was to demonstrate what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

Froggie
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:36 AM
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I have a Pachmayr (Peters-Stahl) 1911-22 Conversion Unit. It’s nicely finished but it’s not Bullseye Competiton accurate.
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:48 AM
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There were/are quite a few “real” Bullseye quality 22 conversions for the 1911 platform… the military teams were developing them back in the ‘50s and ‘60s, IIRC. The Day, Kart, and other commercial versions also had their followings.

BUT the really competitive ones were closely fitted to a specific frame… it was not a simple “field strip and reassemble” process in most cases. Bullseye shooters back then were a peculiar bunch and were known to make extreme efforts just to improve their score potential by a few points. Now it’s all about speed, with relatively large targets to hit, so pure accuracy is not the goal of many current handgun shooting sports.

JMHO, maybe I should have my coffee now!

Froggie
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:50 AM
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AJ,

Due to its rarity, the price on one of these conversions will approach that of a Model 41, so converting an already expensive Model 52 would probably be a money losing proposition for what would probably be just an OK performer. While I know there are some conversions that work great, I wouldnít try to build my Bullseye battery around this one, YMMV.

My reason for posting this into the thread was to demonstrate what can be done, not necessarily what should be done.

Froggie
Froggie,

It will be something to be on the lookout for. If the price is reasonable, then I would buy it. Do I need it? No. I don't shoot the Colt Conversion Unit for my Gold Cup very often. If I want to shoot a accurate .22 LR, I use my Browning Medalist or my S&W 17.

Thanks for the info!
AJ
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Old 09-21-2021, 08:55 AM
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I should have also said that the concept of a .22 Conversion Unit has come leaps and bounds for the 1911 platform since the late 60’s with the original pioneering of Fred Kart, the S&W pistols were really overlooked. In my part of the world, bullseye shooting has fallen out of favour to the action pistol sports. As mentioned above the cost to design and build something for the now obsolete 1st/2nd/3rd Gen S&W’s wouldn’t justify the return in investment. The Pachmayr branded Peters-Stahl .22 Conversions are fun, but expensive plinkers.
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Old 09-21-2021, 09:10 AM
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I should have also said that the concept of a .22 Conversion Unit has come leaps and bounds for the 1911 platform since the late 60ís with the original pioneering of Fred Kart, the S&W pistols were really overlooked. In my part of the world, bullseye shooting has fallen out of favour to the action pistol sports. As mentioned above the cost to design and build something for the now obsolete 1st/2nd/3rd Gen S&Wís wouldnít justify the return in investment. The Pachmayr branded Peters-Stahl .22 Conversions are fun, but expensive plinkers.
Colt built their first conversion unit in 1938. There have been three conversion units from them over the years.
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Old 09-21-2021, 09:11 AM
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This is pretty far astray from the original thread topic, but 35 years ago I was given a LNIB Series 70 Colt Ace. I almost immediately acquired a Gold Cup slide assembly and had it “deconverted” to the 45 caliber that the Good Lord and John Browning intended it to be. For that process I had my gunsmith actually fit the upper assembly and it is a proper Bullseye gun now.

I guess all in all, I like my serious guns to be in their intended caliber. I doubt my 52-2 will ever experience conversion to 22, much less 9mm.

Froggie
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Old 09-21-2021, 10:21 AM
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This is my last post in this thread as I dont want it to drift anymore than it has. To respond to AJ's post above, Yes Colt produced their .22 Conversion Units in the 30's. They remained virtually unchanged during their entire production run. They were designed as a training aid, not serious target work. The 2 that I own will hit the broad side of a barn door, but will never be capable of serious bullseye accuracy. There are much better and cheaper options available for the 1911 if accuracy is your goal. Sadly, S&W was basically forgotton and those days are long gone. The Pachmayr is an expensive but neat accessory but in my opinion not worth the investment unless its too cheap to pass on, or you are a nerd like me who collects .22 Conversion Units. Your opinion may vary.

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Old 09-21-2021, 12:22 PM
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I have a Pachmayr (Peters-Stahl) 1911-22 Conversion Unit. Itís nicely finished but itís not Bullseye Competiton accurate.
I also have one and it is super accurate with Federal match, and of all things RWS Biathlon.
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Old 09-22-2021, 01:55 PM
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I guess with all the contributions to this topic the crux of the matter has become lost. Is it to have a multi-caliber pistol for shooting more readily available ammunition, or is it because the OP can't find ammunition for his Model 52? I have never been a fan of multi-cal conversions as more often than not, one or all of the conversions suffer in some form. They are either inaccurate or unreliable.

If the OP REALLY wants to correct his inability to find .38 wadcutter ammunition for his Model 52 than he should put his big boy pants on and get into reloading. There is no other caliber that has more information on it for reloading than the .38 Special. In fact having a desire to reload for my Model 52 is what got me into reloading and into a deep rabbit hole. Reloading is not only fun and rewarding, but YOU can custom tailor your loads to what YOU want, not what the ammunition companies sell. I recall completing my first .38 wadcutter on a single stage press. I looked at that round and thought to myself, "Well you cost me a lot of money for one cartridge, you better work good." It did and I have far expanded my reloading infrastructure.

Certainly setting up for reloading isn't cheap, but you can save a ton of money on used equipment. I simply can't imagine shooting as much as I do without having the ability and desire to save money by reloading. This is almost always a win-win for me as my reloaded cartridges perform just as good if not better than store bought ammunition. However a word of caution should be given. Start out by the book(s), don't go off on a tangent thinking you know more than the loading manuals. Buy a GOOD chronograph and use it! Only a chronograph will give you the proof in the pudding you are looking for.

You may never feel the need to reload for a slew of calibers, but I have the equipment necessary to load for every firearm I own except .22's. It is extremely comforting to know I can shoot whatever I have, when I want to, regardless of what's on the store shelves. Now if only I could reload .22's that perform like Tennex or Center-X I would be completely self sufficient. Go for the gusto Mr. OP, give reloading for your Model 52 a try. You might be surprised at the results.

Rick H.
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick H. View Post
I guess with all the contributions to this topic the crux of the matter has become lost. Is it to have a multi-caliber pistol for shooting more readily available ammunition, or is it because the OP can't find ammunition for his Model 52? I have never been a fan of multi-cal conversions as more often than not, one or all of the conversions suffer in some form. They are either inaccurate or unreliable.

If the OP REALLY wants to correct his inability to find .38 wadcutter ammunition for his Model 52 than he should put his big boy pants on and get into reloading. There is no other caliber that has more information on it for reloading than the .38 Special. In fact having a desire to reload for my Model 52 is what got me into reloading and into a deep rabbit hole. Reloading is not only fun and rewarding, but YOU can custom tailor your loads to what YOU want, not what the ammunition companies sell. I recall completing my first .38 wadcutter on a single stage press. I looked at that round and thought to myself, "Well you cost me a lot of money for one cartridge, you better work good." It did and I have far expanded my reloading infrastructure.

Certainly setting up for reloading isn't cheap, but you can save a ton of money on used equipment. I simply can't imagine shooting as much as I do without having the ability and desire to save money by reloading. This is almost always a win-win for me as my reloaded cartridges perform just as good if not better than store bought ammunition. However a word of caution should be given. Start out by the book(s), don't go off on a tangent thinking you know more than the loading manuals. Buy a GOOD chronograph and use it! Only a chronograph will give you the proof in the pudding you are looking for.

You may never feel the need to reload for a slew of calibers, but I have the equipment necessary to load for every firearm I own except .22's. It is extremely comforting to know I can shoot whatever I have, when I want to, regardless of what's on the store shelves. Now if only I could reload .22's that perform like Tennex or Center-X I would be completely self sufficient. Go for the gusto Mr. OP, give reloading for your Model 52 a try. You might be surprised at the results.

Rick H.

If he is just going to reload for the 52 he can do that fairly easily. I started out with an old Lyman 310 Tool. These are still out there and are easy to use. Reloading 50 or so cases may take and hour or so using one of these. But compared to the cost of a fancy reloading press and equipment it is a lot cheaper. Taught me a lot about reloading by starting small and working my way up over the years. Reloaded with the 310 for two years before I got my first press.
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