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  #1  
Old 10-04-2021, 12:45 PM
AreWeNotMen?'s Avatar
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92

See Post #14

After reading most everything I could find on the Model 41 on the internet (and believing some of it ) I ordered a new 7" through Sportsman's Warehouse. Supposed to arrive in about 10 days, then over to fill out the paperwork and wait another 10. In anticipation, I have also ordered 2 spare magazines (I didn't know if it comes with one or two), and the varied recoil spring pack from Wolfe. I do have a fair amount and selection of ammunition (Std and HV) to test with it.

I got the long barrel as I have an attraction to them:
  • Springfield 1911 Trophy Match Long Slide
  • Automatic Colt (Model 1902) Calibre 38 Rimless Smokeless
  • Glock 34
  • Glock 35
  • 686 6"
  • 629 6"
  • Ruger Mk II 6"

I'll share my impressions once I've had it to the range.

Regards...

Last edited by AreWeNotMen?; 04-11-2022 at 09:29 AM. Reason: update title
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Old 10-04-2021, 01:00 PM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Congratulations on ordering your new Smith & Wesson model 41! I hope it is a nice one and shoots well for you. Oh, of course you know we like to see pictures.
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Old 10-04-2021, 01:53 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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I haven’t seen a new 41 in a couple of years now. They are undoubtedly slow sellers, at least in my neck of the woods. The last few I have seen looked very good.

When I was younger, with a stronger, steadier upper body, and I could actually see iron sights, I always preferred the longer barrel. About the time my eyes started to rebel against pistol shooting, I found I was shooting the 5” barrel better.

Well, anyway, good luck with your new 41 and I hope you will come back with a shooting report once you’ve had the opportunity to shoot it a little.
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Old 10-04-2021, 04:31 PM
teletech teletech is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Well, I guess it's good somebody is still buying new S&Ws and classic models to boot. It must be really tough for a company that produced quality firearms that will outlast several generations of owners if treated fairly well. Even tougher when the current production is generally not as well regarded as the old products. My 41 is older than I am and likely to outlast me. When it's running well it's an absolute joy, when it's not... well it comes and goes sometimes. If you enjoy your 41 even half as much as I've enjoyed mine, you won't mind the price or the wait.
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Old 10-04-2021, 04:44 PM
kas9412 kas9412 is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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I have one with both the 5.5" and 7" barrels. The 5.5" wears a red dot, and the 7" I use when I want to shoot iron sights. I must confess that I shoot the 5.5 better simply because I can see the dot better than the sights. (Old geezer syndrome.)

My 41 was shipped in 1997 so I've had it a while. When new, it didn't cycle too well, so I ran a 4-5 boxes of high speed ammo through it and it loosened up. Since then, I use nothing but CCI standard velocity in it. I shoot it until it has about 800 rounds through it, and it starts having a few malfunctions, which is it's way of telling me it needs to be cleaned. So I clean it, shoot it again for a few shots to prime it, and it runs again for another 800 rounds or so.

It is my favorite pistol and goes to range nearly every time I do. Enjoy your 41!

kas
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Old 10-04-2021, 05:30 PM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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I will say that the local Sportsman's Warehouse store has had one of each barrel length new model 41's in inventory and both looked very nice to me.
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Old 10-07-2021, 05:02 PM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default Killing time by ordering stuff for the Model 41

So I'm keeping myself occupied waiting for my Model 41 to arrive by reading more about it, and ordering stuff! Two OEM magazines (surprised to see a "lazy &" in the S&W stamped on the heel plate), and a Wolff "recoil calibration pak" (stock #13171) which also came with 3 extra power firing pin springs. I do think I'll bite the bullet and pay the $12+ for a buffer just to be safe. if anyone has an unneeded spare, I'd buy it from you.

Sorry for the sideways pic...clueless how to fix it.
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Old 10-24-2021, 07:10 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Smile FINALLY arrived

17 days from order being place to arriving at their local store; went there yesterday to do the paperwork and start the silly 10-day wait. Having never even seen one in person before, it is a very classy looking firearm. It felt well balanced in my hand; the grips are very comfortable and quite pretty.

I'll post a photo once I get it home.
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:55 AM
wagwan wagwan is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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One of my favorite 22s! I bought one new in the 80’s and foolishly sold it a few years later. I missed it so much that I recently bought another. This one is a keeper!

Enjoy yours!
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Old 11-02-2021, 09:43 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default FINALLY...pick-up day & firing pin spring question

I'll be picking up my new Model 41 later today (yay for me). I'll clean and lube it prior to going to the range tomorrow. Up in post #7 I put a photo of goodies I'd already bought for it, and have since also acquired buffers and an optic base. I will shoot it in stock configuration (except with buffer installed) with various ammo and log my results for fun and education.

As mentioned in post #7, Wolff sent along a 3-pack of extra power firing pin springs. Questions:
  1. Is there any reason to use them if the OEM spring does its job?
  2. Should I change the firing pin spring as a matter of maintenance after x thousand rounds?
  3. Any disadvantage to using the extra power spring?

Thanks folks.
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Old 11-02-2021, 06:21 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Mr. men, go shoot the damn pistol right out of the box.
Dont change a thing. Let us know after 500rds.
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Old 11-02-2021, 07:00 PM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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My wife loves shooting mine. I have a feeling that she's going to claim it as hers
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Old 11-03-2021, 08:52 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
Mr. men, go shoot the damn pistol right out of the box.
Dont change a thing. Let us know after 500rds.
I agree with Mike, don’t change anything until it’s broken in. If there are any problems, then work on fixing any problems. Install the buffer as it can’t hurt and might help.

My M41 works perfectly with, what I believe to be original stock springs, despite being 62 years old!

Hope you love yours as much as I do mine!
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Old 11-03-2021, 11:00 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default less than thrilled

Got my new Model 41 home last night, all was good until it wasn't. My observations:
  • the safety is ridiculously stiff - like "use both thumbs" stiff
  • disengaging the barrel via pulling/pivoting the trigger guard down is "you gotta be kidding me" hard
  • the edges of the trigger guard are sharper than my kitchen knives

But wait, there's more...(see first pic)

How can a factory new barrel be so filthy?

And now the real fun - after cleaning the bore, it still didn't look/feel right, so I used my very cheap but very effective Teslong bore-scope. The first pic is of the $179 Savage Rascal bolt action rimfire rifle bore I got at the same time for the grandkids (second pic). The rest of the pics are the bore of my factory fresh $1400 Model 41 target pistol (most of crown end)

I would like to hear your thoughts since my thoughts use some fancy four-letter words and I don't want to cry on my keyboard this early in the day.

So please comment on any or all of my observations; advice is welcome.

Thanks.

PS - will S&W accept just the barrel for warranty work (I plan to order a Clark for optics use and would like to use the pistol while I'm waiting for S&W).
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Last edited by AreWeNotMen?; 11-03-2021 at 11:59 AM. Reason: forgot pics!
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  #15  
Old 11-04-2021, 01:56 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreWeNotMen? View Post
Got my new Model 41 home last night, all was good until it wasn't. My observations:
  • the safety is ridiculously stiff - like "use both thumbs" stiff
  • disengaging the barrel via pulling/pivoting the trigger guard down is "you gotta be kidding me" hard
  • the edges of the trigger guard are sharper than my kitchen knives

But wait, there's more...(see first pic)

How can a factory new barrel be so filthy?

And now the real fun - after cleaning the bore, it still didn't look/feel right, so I used my very cheap but very effective Teslong bore-scope. The first pic is of the $179 Savage Rascal bolt action rimfire rifle bore I got at the same time for the grandkids (second pic). The rest of the pics are the bore of my factory fresh $1400 Model 41 target pistol (most of crown end)

I would like to hear your thoughts since my thoughts use some fancy four-letter words and I don't want to cry on my keyboard this early in the day.

So please comment on any or all of my observations; advice is welcome.

Thanks.

PS - will S&W accept just the barrel for warranty work (I plan to order a Clark for optics use and would like to use the pistol while I'm waiting for S&W).
The only word I can think of that won't get me a time-out here is "astonishing"...

How can a new barrel on a production pistol look like that? I'm trying to envision what could have caused those little pockmarks or craters and I can't think of any tool, or any procedure, during the manufacturing process that would have left the bore in that condition. If I didn't know better, i would almost think that somebody deliberately damaged it.

I've been considering buying a Model 41 myself...please keep up posted, and let us know what S&W says.

Good luck to you...
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Old 11-04-2021, 02:09 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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C'mon, every manufacturer fires tungsten birdshot down their barrels before they ship

I would have listed all the issues and demanded a new gun. It looks like a lemon to me.
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:21 AM
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Any manufacturer can have a bad day in production. HOWEVER for something that bad to actually pass inspection is an utter disgrace!!

I'd DEMAND a new gun or better yet, my money back! Then get a vintage model.
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:37 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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My Buds 41 is 20+ years old and he shoots bulls eye with it all the time...as in thousands of rounds, he replaces springs every 3K or so rds, runs like a rolex. Me... I shoot combat pistol at short distance, more real world.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:04 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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I would like to know what S&W has to say about this pistol. I thought the wait time on a new 41 was more than 17 days. My new Ruger 10/22 had a dirty bore when I brought it home, I always clean new guns before shooting, but the bore was great looking and shooting after it was cleaned.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:51 AM
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That looks like the chips werent cleaned from the barrel after reaming, and then they were smashed into the bore with the rifling button. Just a guess. I agree, that is an utter disgrace. The skilled labor shirtage is a real problem.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:13 AM
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I wanted one and after long deliberation incl here on the forum I decided to wait instead of risking a new one. After a while I found a 1979 and now added a 1964 cocking indicator. Both are wonderful, made when manufacturing was done with pride and expert craftsmen made things by hand here in America. I am one infraction short of telling what I really think of this...
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Old 11-04-2021, 09:17 AM
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So you read everything you could find on the Model 41, and then you went out and ordered a brand new one instead of finding a really nice older used one? I'm sorry, I may not be the normal S&W owner here, but there is no way I'd order a brand new S&W. I've no interest whatsoever in one made after the year 2000, and likely needs to be another 50 years older than that to get me revved. When it doubt, always buy an older one if available - they just made them better. My Mid 80's Mod 41 has never let me down, doubt it ever will.
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:19 AM
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Appreciate the feedback (aside from the smarmy lecture comments ). Can't buy a used one if you can't find one (at a non-stupid OTD price). The ugliness we see are raised blobs, not divots. I emailed S&W yesterday; started polite, will keep you posted.

I did eyeball the bore before doing paper, but these globs appeared to be nothing more than test-shot residue to my aged eyes. Lesson learned too late - take a bore scope to inspect any firearm before you buy.

If there is any good news in my story, between the time I ordered the pistol and picking it up, the retailer had reduced the price - they gave me $97 back.
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:41 AM
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I would never buy a Brand new S&W anything.
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:50 AM
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....and the $1400 question is......how does it shoot?
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Old 11-04-2021, 01:53 PM
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My initial thought upon seeing the bore photos is this....Those bumps or globs appear to be unburnt gunpowder flakes that are impregnated in heavy grease. Was the bore swabbed thoroughly with a brass brush and good solvent? Please don't take offense if this is a stupid question. I'm just trying to be a supportive forum pal. I can't imagine a scenario where 'bumps' would be formed after a rifling button or broach was passed through the bore.

Stiff safeties can usually be remedied by gently addressing the "ball in detent" area with some polishing etc or if it is a spring type latch, bending the spring a bit more to the relaxed position and polishing the catch area of the safety lever. I have never worked on a 41 before so seek advice from the experts if needed. Good luck, and I'm guessing all is not lost.

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Old 11-04-2021, 02:53 PM
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Yeah, that's the answer, don't buy anything from Smith and Wesson. That way when the company goes belly-up you can thank yourself for the loss and then complain about the company going under.

To the OP, I have never, ever seen a barrel in that condition in my life and I have looked down hundreds of barrels both old and new. Having said that, I have seen only one barrel with a similar protrusion on a high end .22 cal rifle, but it was just one protrusion. The manufacturer took care of it via a barrel replacement, but never gave an answer as to what it was that caused the bump. S&W most assuredly will replace the barrel on your pistol once they look at it. They can't dodge this bullet. I for one would really like to know what their explanation will be for what caused these lumps in your barrel. If it was a tooling error of some sort then more than likely there are more barrels out there in the same condition. I assume that you did a thorough cleaning of the barrel using a brush correct?

Clearly this should have been caught before your pistol left the factory and it's a darn shame it wasn't. I can only vouch for the fact S&W repaired my PC41 quite satisfactorily albeit with a six week wait. I would want an explanation for what caused this pistol to leave the Mothership in that condition, especially the barrel! Your other two issues being the safety and movement of the trigger guard are pretty common and can be rectified with some elbow grease. Operating both will free them up and make them easier, but I wouldn't fool with it at this point. Let S&W take care of those two items also.


Good luck and please keep us informed of your progress.

Rick H.

P.S. The more I think about this barrel issue the more concerned I am getting. I am going to send S&W a letter on this along with one of the pictures and ask what the h**l is going on there! Completely unacceptable to me and I like new M41's..

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Old 11-04-2021, 05:52 PM
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As someone else mentioned, it's always wise to clean and lubricate a new gun before firing. They shoot them at the factory before shipping, but they don't clean them.

I've never emailed S&W customer service, I always call. In the cases where I had to send a gun back they've emailed me a shipping label within minutes.

I'd ship it back and have them fix it, but that's just me.

My new 351C which was a warranty replacement for one I bought used was misfiring out of the box. I tested different brands of ammunition to see if that was the problem. It wasn't so I called customer service and shipped it back.

They replaced the firing pin and firing pin spring and realigned the yoke (whatever that means). It's shot great ever since.

I'd do that as opposed to wanting my money back, because there's some chance that if you buy another gun you'll have the same or some other problems.

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Appreciate the feedback (aside from the smarmy lecture comments ). Can't buy a used one if you can't find one (at a non-stupid OTD price). The ugliness we see are raised blobs, not divots. I emailed S&W yesterday; started polite, will keep you posted.

I did eyeball the bore before doing paper, but these globs appeared to be nothing more than test-shot residue to my aged eyes. Lesson learned too late - take a bore scope to inspect any firearm before you buy.

If there is any good news in my story, between the time I ordered the pistol and picking it up, the retailer had reduced the price - they gave me $97 back.
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Old 11-04-2021, 06:20 PM
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Full disclosure: I don’t know the details of the EXTRA hassles associated with trying to have a rimfire target pistol shipped in to that foreign land…

With that said, there are more than one hundred of these live on that big auction site we always talk about, many of them are buy-it-now and hundreds less than $1,400 for a pistol that S&W apparently can no longer properly build.

Pre-2000 era Model 41’s are fantastic pistols. Post 2000? Good luck to you.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmoose View Post
My initial thought upon seeing the bore photos is this....Those bumps or globs appear to be unburnt gunpowder flakes that are impregnated in heavy grease. Was the bore swabbed thoroughly with a brass brush and good solvent? Please don't take offense if this is a stupid question. I'm just trying to be a supportive forum pal. I can't imagine a scenario where 'bumps' would be formed after a rifling button or broach was passed through the bore.

Stiff safeties can usually be remedied by gently addressing the "ball in detent" area with some polishing etc or if it is a spring type latch, bending the spring a bit more to the relaxed position and polishing the catch area of the safety lever. I have never worked on a 41 before so seek advice from the experts if needed. Good luck, and I'm guessing all is not lost.
Thanks for commenting - no offense at all.

Yes, my routine with a new firearm is to do a thorough inspection and cleaning. Bore was swabbed with solvent and patch dried, then a new bronze brush run through several times, then solvent swabbed and dried again.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:32 PM
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Holy Cow! SWAG is the bore was not cleaned after initial gun drilling leaving “ crud” in hole. Appears rifling button was not push/ pulled through in a Steady Even rate leaving “ steps” and gouging thanks to “ crud” left from drilling. Perhaps the coolant/ lube for button was off? Regardless this is simply really Poor machining, certainly not expected in a $1,400 pistol. In light of the “current situation” with qualified, experienced skilled labor, not surprised . Who was the QC/QA guy? Ray Charles??????
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:42 PM
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Okay, to cover a few posted comments (and not artificially build my post count):

The hassle of buying used w/o inspection, shipping costs, up to $100 fee at FFL to accept a private party or dealer transfer, etc. was not appealing to me. None were local, and prices here in CA tend to be stupider than most other places.

Although I've bought more handguns used than new, sometimes my OCD tendencies rule and I cannot get pass some other icky human having "violated" what I plan to own. Examples? Last few new vehicles I bought literally just came off the delivery truck (yet I've bought innumerable used vehicles without issue), I reach for the box further back in the display of whatever at the store...I know its weird and inconsistent, but its me.

Twas cleaned thoroughly the same night I got it home - that's when the bore scope found the uglies.

I emailed v. called because I like a written record; they sent a prepaid FedEx label this morning and I shipped it back this afternoon.

I don't want my money back, I want an appropriate quality Model 41.

I've tried before, but in my experience S&W does not explain their failures, does not sufficiently explain what they did to "correct" the issue, and has little empathy with us - their customers.

The answer to "the $1400 question" is I dunno - didn't want to waste time and ammo shooting a gun I knew was going to be different in its ultimate configuration (shooting club is 30 minutes away - no "back 40 range" here).

As disappointing as this, I'll be sure to let you know how it goes.

PS - I'm adding a pic of the "third-world quality" muzzle/crown for for fun.
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Old 11-04-2021, 08:07 PM
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That looks like a Siberian diamond mine...
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Old 11-04-2021, 10:15 PM
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That looks like a Siberian diamond mine...
If only it were, if only...
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Old 11-04-2021, 11:52 PM
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If it was my m41, I'd get the barrel relined by a gunsmith who specializes in custom work for Bullseye pistol.
I recommend Alex Hamilton of Ten Ring Precision, Jerry Keefer, or David Sams.
These guys have great reputations and regularly do this work. For serious target shooting most m41s these days need this type of custom work. Typically costs about $200.
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Old 11-05-2021, 12:06 AM
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Jerry Keefer passed away nearly four years ago.
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Old 11-05-2021, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
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Jerry Keefer passed away nearly four years ago.
Wow, I didn't know that! Sad to hear!
And, I thought I was timely just to have remembered that Lou Lombardi retired from Falcon Machining. He did some GREAT .22 barrel relines on m41s, High Standards, and Hämmerli 208s.

I recommend getting a reline on the m41 barrel vs. getting a Clark m41 barrel. I have always suspected, based on their appearance the machining of the locking lug, that their barrels are blanks that they get from S&W.
The custom builders use barrel liners from Anschütz or Lothar Walther. This is match grade stuff, not to be confused with the DIY products sold by Midway, etc.

By the way, not a lot of people know that at least at one time (may still be true?) that S&W made three different types of interchangeable breech blocks to fit the m41 slide. These were made with the rim recess either centered, or slightly biased to the left or right. The idea was to better align a cartridge for barrels whose bores do not perfectly align with the slide.
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Old 11-05-2021, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
....and the $1400 question is......how does it shoot?
If you bought a brand new BMW and it was scratched, dented, and dirty I don't think the $64,000 question would be, "how does it drive".

Weather or not the gun shoots perfectly is not what one wants after spending his/her hard earned money on it. I think the Factory should either make it right or refund 100% of the money spent on it. Buy hey, that's just my opinion.

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Old 11-05-2021, 10:46 AM
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I would have at least shot the gun first to see how it did. I've seen guns with lots of work shoot mediocre groups and I've seen guns with a bore that looks like 5 miles of dirt road shoot cloverleafs. It all depends on the gun.
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Old 11-05-2021, 10:53 AM
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I have to apologize, but I'm a service and reliability kind of shooter, and Lord knows, I will never own a BMW. Heck, I don't even own a bore scope. I could care less "weather" the bore is pristine or not.....or what it looks like. If the gun is safe, accurate and reliable, I'm happy.
I understand your point. I would agree that if you own a vintage firearm, tool, car, or whatever and it works 100% all the time - then why not be happy. Function over form. In this case, paying $1,400 for a .22 pistol that is "supposed to be" on the top of the heap, brand new in the box and pristine - most anyone I know would not expect holes, pitting and major defects and would be outraged as I would.

BTW I'd never buy another BMW (been there - done that - so we agree there - lol) but let's just say one saved up for years for a new car of whatever the manufacturer, and it came in all damaged - again, if it handled and rode great that's a plus, but doesn't mean they shouldn't be upset that it is still damaged. Just saying......
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Old 11-05-2021, 12:12 PM
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In the manufacture of a barrel there should be a number of steps to swab the bore, inspect/gauge and do it again a couple more times at various points along the way to a complete barrel. The gunk on the cleaning patches could be a preservative oil applied after test fire to protect the bore during shipping. Doesn't look like the initial gun drilling of the barrel blank went especially well. The "chunks" could be lead debris scrapped off the bullets during test firing. Don't know if you have tried a brass cored brass brush on your bore; I'd suggest that to see if the lead chunks will be removed.

The Mod 41 I owned years ago had a really stiff thumb safety and the removal of the barrel was a tough two hand job. Both those aspects are desirable IMO for a target pistol's function and long term accuracy. Now the knife sharp trigger guard edges . . . . . no.
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:36 PM
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Sorry to hear about the issues with this new Mod 41.

As for the safety, the stiffness appears to be inherent to these; my 1973 vintage one is also stiff. Not as stiff as you describe but stiff.

As for the barrel; Are they still button rifled or are they using the EDM process or broaching the rifling now?

Either way, I am sure S&W will take care of the issues and make things right.
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Old 11-05-2021, 03:20 PM
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I agree with sceva regarding the safety - safeties on 41's have always been very stiff. Personally, because this is a target gun/range toy, I never use the safety on mine. Bullseye shooters, for which this pistol was originally designed, almost never use safeties. Consequently, that issue will likely not be addressed very well by S&W. However, the barrel is another story. Hopefully, S&W just pops a new barrel on it and sends it back to you quickly.

Good Luck!
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Old 11-05-2021, 09:02 PM
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I do love my M41, after about 10 years of ownership it is still probably my favourite handgun despite its faults - and sadly there are one or two.

They really are tremendously accurate - mine makes me look like a much better shooter than I think I really am. And they just feel so nice in the hand in weight and balance and grip and are a delight to shoot.

In regards to the problems that you’re experiencing:

The trigger guard barrel release will actually free up quite quickly with use so don’t worry about that one. If like me you clean a .22 handgun after every use you’ll probably find by the 4th clean that it is fine.

The safety is indeed a problem on these firearms being very stiff, small, sharp edged (I filed my edges) and not at all user friendly. You can ease up on the detent screw (?) to make it a bit easier but it’s rather hit and miss and not a satisfactory remedy.

I really wish someone would produce an after market extended safety lever (somewhat like on a competition race gun) that’d improve the leverage, positivity of movement/position, comfort and usability.

In regards to the barrel - I really think that S&W are dropping the game here. When I bought mine about 10 years ago I found that I was seeing a number of tumbled rounds on paper targets. I could feel when swabbing the barrel that the swab would "free up” briefly about 2/3rds of the way down the barrel and than tighten up again for the last half inch or so.

I sent it back to the Australian S&W importer (Grycol) and S&W acknowledged that the barrel was faulty and replaced the barrel without any hassle at all (Grycol had loaned me a good used replacement barrel while S&W were considering it so I was very happy with their service and S&W’s response).

Sadly the M41’s are notorious for ejection failures and you’ll read all sorts of advice on what ammo to use, fitting after market ejectors, lubricating the breech, lubricating rounds and so on. I’ve stuck with CCI standard velocity and have swapped out the ejector and I’d say that it is “reasonably” reliable. I still get an ejection failure every now and then but I’ve found that I can usually clear them quickly enough not to suffer in most competitions other than in Steel Challenge comp’s.

The only thing that I haven’t tried is slightly reaming and polishing the breach as some have suggested on various forums.

My local well respected gunsmith has also suggested that the breach length can be a tighter tolerance on these competition guns (ie shorter so that there’s no open breach space between the ammunition case and the rifling) causing some spent round casings to bind in the rifling at the head of the breach and so causing the ejection failures....?

He has had experience and success reaming the breach very slightly further forward on other model pistols with a similar ejection failure issue and suggested doing it to the M41 - I’m a little hesitant to try it but am considering it.

Other than that - personally I really wish someone would come up with a direct mount for a red dot (specifically the Leupold Delta Point Pro) onto the gun using the top mount screw holes that are there rather than via an additional “Weigatinny" rail and then a quite high Leupold cross slot mount that takes the red dot quite high and makes it harder to “acquire”.

Enjoy the gun mate, I really think they are worth the effort to get right - it’s just a real bloody shame that S&W don’t get them right before selling them.

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Old 11-05-2021, 09:39 PM
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I didn't respond initially after seeing the photos of the bore, as I have never seen anything like that in my 50 some years of shooting. When I said that I had looked at a couple of new model 41 pistols on display at Sportsman's warehouse and thought they looked nice, I never checked the bore as I would not have expected to discover such a condition.

As others have stated, the stiff safety and stiff trigger guard movement for take down are totally normal, but obviously the bore is not. For those who try to determine in what year of manufacture did the model 41 become suspect, that's not so easily done. My 2007 model has the dull blue finish but otherwise shoots as well as my older model 41 pistols from the 1980's did. Smith & Wesson should absolutely replace the barrel with a new one, and it would be nice if that could be done without returning the whole pistol, but I question whether they would do that or not.

I am very sorry that you are having to go through all of this. I will be interested in hearing how Smith & Wesson resolves this.
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2021, 06:55 PM
Troystat Troystat is offline
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That bore looks weird (in a bad way) I guess see how it shoots but a new barrel or having the existing barrel relined is a option. As far as function 41's seem to come in two flavors, finicky and no problem. I think the extractor is the most common reason for jams on these pistols not the barrels. I have a late 70's version that came with a 7.375 inch barrel and it is extremely reliable with any ammunition that I have tried in it. On a lark I bought a new 5.5 inch barrel and a used 5 inch field barrel and they all function fine even though they are all different ages. The other item that can cause problems is a bad recoil spring. Anyway there is a lot of info out there regarding making the 41's run well so good luck..
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2021, 10:31 AM
rolandj rolandj is offline
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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I had a barrel problem on a new 41 similar to your problem. I had to send it back to S & W three times before they replaced the barrel. I posted concerning the problem in this forum on June 05 2021 and the barrel was not replaced until September 2021. I had to talk to a supervisor before S & W replaced it. You can look my post up and see the results if your interested. Yes you do have to return the entire pistol to have the barrel replaced. Good luck and I hope you get satisfaction from S & W.
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Last edited by rolandj; 04-05-2022 at 01:10 PM.
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  #48  
Old 12-22-2021, 12:33 PM
AreWeNotMen?'s Avatar
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default OP UPDATE

My Model 41 is scheduled to arrive back home today from its 6-week visit with the S&W warranty shop. I am keeping my fingers crossed, but not holding mt breath! It has been a long road:
  • first ordered it at the start of October
  • delay in arriving at the FFL's local store
  • go do paperwork
  • wait the silly 10 days (CA law)
  • get it home, look it over, find significant flaws
  • send it back to S&W at the start of November

I'll let y'all know whether the beers I have when it arrives are in celebration, or to drown my misery.
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  #49  
Old 12-22-2021, 05:38 PM
Old_Cop Old_Cop is online now
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Here's hoping all is well.
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  #50  
Old 12-22-2021, 08:30 PM
AreWeNotMen?'s Avatar
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Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92 Good Grief S&W, Strike Three! (new Model 41 7") - see post #92  
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Default the beer I'm having now is to drown my misery

Well thank you Old Cop...but unfortunately, the beer I'm having now is to drown my misery - at least it's a good beer! I've attached photos just taken following S&W's "Performed Service": "Repair Barrel" It doesn't look any different to me, and even if it shot "fine", there's no way a proper barrel wouldn't out-shoot it. And again, for the price, such poor quality is appalling and ridiculous.

I will email them tomorrow with a few questions and to express my dismay. Not gonna worry about it until after the holidays.

Regards to all.
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File Type: jpg Photo_20211222160003.jpg (43.4 KB, 224 views)
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