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Old 10-24-2021, 06:08 PM
jimmarriott jimmarriott is offline
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Arrow 4006 Limited Performance Center question

Does anyone know if the Slide on a performance center 4006 Limited will fit on a stock California Highway patrol 4006 TSW frame?
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Old 10-24-2021, 06:44 PM
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It absolutely will not... both slide and frame on PC are hand fit to each other you could have 2 identical guns next to each other and one would not fit the other, PC of course...
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Old 10-24-2021, 06:51 PM
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It's possible that it goes on or begins to go on but please understand that this would be a horrendous idea when you consider all of:

1) the 4006 Limited is decades out of production
2) will NEVER be made again, ever
3) is phenomenal and entirely hand-fitted
4) costs a bundle if you are lucky enough to ever find one ($2000++)
5) limited to -130- units produced

It's a really bad idea to take a slide that was mated, by hand, to the frame of the truly elite 4006 Limited and try to mash it in to a production gun.

If you had somehow lucked in to finding a lonely 4006 Limited top end with no frame, that's a valuable part that you could turn in to cash, likely more cash than what the CHP 4006 TSW's were first being sold at. (they cost more now)
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Old 10-24-2021, 08:13 PM
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Well since no one has asked so far, do you have a complete 4006 Limited slide? Just curious.

I think the “higher” end, more limited/target PC’s were, (are,) built to even closer, (tighter,) tolerances. I think it would lucky to get one Limited slide to just go on another like frame.

The complete Shorty 40 MKIII slide I got functions perfectly on my middle run of the first Shorty’s. Yep it was snug going on even with lots of grease. But comes off and on and functions perfectly and accurately. Although accurate Shorty 40’s are not target pistols.

Some of my other PC “target” model are very really super tight going on and off. The PPC9 almost has to be forced when removing. Once the slides of these are on they all function perfectly and smoothly.

Jim
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:39 AM
jimmarriott jimmarriott is offline
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Thanks for your thoughts. I did find a lonely complete slide with barrel matching from a pC 4006 limited. It was in a pawn shop and would like to find a way to make a function gun out of it. It is very nice with what looks like just shelf wear. No frame to be had. I did get one PC 4006 magazine with the laser marking and extended butt pad.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:41 AM
jimmarriott jimmarriott is offline
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Can anyone describe the work needed to match a slide with a frame?
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:13 AM
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As I understand it, the slide rails and the frame rails are both built oversized. Neither will fit together when the process starts. The builder slowly works the two parts together, removing metal slowly as he goes. Eventually the two parts can be forced together and forced apart. Then the two are refined until the fit is precise and no longer binds.

It would seem that if you do not have the frame but you do have the slide and barrel… you would want to try and make it work.

I can only imagine that you would have to take a lot of metal off the frame rails to try and mate it up.
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Old 10-25-2021, 01:20 AM
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In case you would like to see pictures of the slide.



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Old 10-25-2021, 06:48 AM
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that's a really nice slide. If the price is reasonable, it would be a good idea to buy it...


If you don't want it...I do

to fit the slide to a frame...I would call BMCM (Bill)...
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Old 11-23-2021, 06:00 PM
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https://drive.protonmail.com/urls/BV...8#s8XnZhDwTfnW

I finally installed the Limited 4006 onto a frame. Link to Picture above. It was not hard. about three hours of work to get the slide rails to fit a 4006TSW. I wanted to put it on an older 4006 for the sake of a cleaner look but the rails on the frame of the older 4006 were not compatible. I also had to swith out the safety for a 4006 traditional safety. the one on the limited slide would not work. I found a spur hammer to add to the TSW so that I would have a spur hammer on the "new" One of a kind Limited 4006TSW.

If anyone knows where I would get a mag well for the 4006 I would be willing to purchase it.

I shot it yesterday and although the trigger is not amazing when compared to the 4006TSW it is noticeably better with the addition of the limited slide. It is also nicer to shoot. the recoil is less sharp with the same ammo. I made no modifications to the frame, the Limited slide is tight on the frame. I did not blend the slide to frame fit in the hammer area as then the TSW slide would not fit as well but I now have two working slides for my 4006TSW frame.

Last edited by jimmarriott; 11-23-2021 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:08 PM
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Oh boy that looks nice!!!

Hope your skin is thick the purist will be along shortly
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:35 PM
mscampbell2734 mscampbell2734 is offline
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Please do NOT fire that gun with a spur hammer. It's my understanding the spurless hammer was installed because the 40 cal recoil caused the spurred hammer to bounce off the frame and impact the center underside of the slide.

Someone else with way way more knowledge then me hopefully will confirm this
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Old 11-23-2021, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mscampbell2734 View Post
Please do NOT fire that gun with a spur hammer. It's my understanding the spurless hammer was installed because the 40 cal recoil caused the spurred hammer to bounce off the frame and impact the center underside of the slide.

Someone else with way way more knowledge then me hopefully will confirm this
True! (Sort of...)

The forged spur hammer for the 9mm/45 pistols is too heavy and can cause slide battering and cracking.

The MIM spur hammer, the lightened Performance Center spur hammer, and the "designed for the 40" forged spur hammer with the big hole through it are safe to use.

John
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Old 11-24-2021, 02:46 PM
jimmarriott jimmarriott is offline
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The spur hammer that I used was the MIM spur hammer with the hole in the back. It seems I Accidentally put the right spur hammer in it. I notice that the slide has no trigger block or magazine safety. I hope to shoot it more in a few days. I can clearly see that the pistol is a bit of an odd duck with target sights and tactical rails on the frame. (But it’s growing on me) I want to make it even more so by adding a mag well to it. I may use it to compete in a local competition but I have no idea where I would find a holster. It may fit in an open bottom 4006 holster.

There is a bit of free play in the trigger in single action mode that is not there with the 4006TSW frame/slide combination. My thought is to ignore it. It is strange as I cannot see how the slide would cause it.

Last edited by jimmarriott; 11-24-2021 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 11-24-2021, 04:45 PM
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I didn’t know for sure myself so I asked a friend to help out.

“ Hi Joe,

I think this is a bad idea- depending on the lockup, this gun may fire out of battery. The rails of a PC slide are oversized compared to factory std, so there is probably a lot of slop in the fit, which defeats the intent of a matched frame and slide therefore no gain in accuracy

Again, I see not sense in doing this😬”

Joe
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmarriott View Post
The spur hammer that I used was the MIM spur hammer with the hole in the back. It seems I Accidentally put the right spur hammer in it. I notice that the slide has no trigger block or magazine safety. I hope to shoot it more in a few days. I can clearly see that the pistol is a bit of an odd duck with target sights and tactical rails on the frame. (But it’s growing on me) I want to make it even more so by adding a mag well to it. I may use it to compete in a local competition but I have no idea where I would find a holster. It may fit in an open bottom 4006 holster.

There is a bit of free play in the trigger in single action mode that is not there with the 4006TSW frame/slide combination. My thought is to ignore it. It is strange as I cannot see how the slide would cause it.
Hi Jim,
isn't the reason for the trigger play in SA the fact that the 4006 CHP does not have a trigger play spring in the drawbar?

If I recall correctly, it was one of the requirements of CHP to eliminate some maintenance.

To remedy this, just install a drawbar with a trigger play spring in good condition.

not 100% sure of this...maybe check the play spring...

Guzzi
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Old 11-24-2021, 06:22 PM
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First of all, Jim, let me say I am a supporter and I admire people who find new uses for quality pieces!

I would really like to see pictures of your conversion, but unfortunately, my old computer will not work with your links.

If you can post pictures to this thread within the Forum, I would very much enjoy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmarriott View Post
The spur hammer that I used was the MIM spur hammer with the hole in the back. It seems I Accidentally put the right spur hammer in it.
I am not familiar with "the MIM spur hammer with the hole in the back".

If your hammer is "hollowed out" along the back side, congratulations!
It is the Performance Center forged Competition Hammer, lightened for faster lock times.
(I look forward to pictures.)

Quote:
I notice that the slide has no trigger block or magazine safety.
Do you mean there is no firing pin block plunger in the underside of the slide?

Quote:
There is a bit of free play in the trigger in single action mode that is not there with the 4006TSW frame/slide combination. My thought is to ignore it. It is strange as I cannot see how the slide would cause it.
If there is no firing pin block in the slide, the trigger mechanism has one less plunger and spring to overcome before the draw bar starts tugging on the sear.

And lastly, what steps did you take to fit the slide to the frame?

John
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Old 11-28-2021, 02:17 PM
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Default Picture of 4006 Limited TSW

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Ed_wLJjAvCzJhjgoe3nxELHg#Wallsburg[/IMG]

Last edited by jimmarriott; 11-28-2021 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 11-29-2021, 05:37 PM
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If you can post pictures to this thread within the Forum, I would very much enjoy it.

I posted some small pictures.

I am not familiar with "the MIM spur hammer with the hole in the back".

The MIM hammer hollow back can be seen in the picture of the back of the slide.

If your hammer is "hollowed out" along the back side, congratulations!
It is the Performance Center forged Competition Hammer, lightened for faster lock times.
(I look forward to pictures.)

I don’t think the hammer is anything special. It came from a std 4006.



Do you mean there is no firing pin block plunger in the underside of the slide?

Yes.



If there is no firing pin block in the slide, the trigger mechanism has one less plunger and spring to overcome before the draw bar starts tugging on the sear.

That may well be. It appears that there is a spring return that pushes on the drawbar same as the std 4006.

And lastly, what steps did you take to fit the slide to the frame?

I used a brownells 1911 rail/slide file and marking fluid. I marked the slide up and fit it together and started filing where the interfearance was indicated by the layout fluid. I did not need to make the forward slide rails deeper just wider. Once it started to go on then I filed and marked repeatedly until it would go on all the way with some help from a soft hammer. I then used polishing compound in the frame to slide interface and worked it back and forth, lapping the slide to the frame. I did not need to file on the frame. That would have been difficult as access would have been harder.

John[/QUOTE]

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachm...1&d=1638222192

This side pictures of the three slides shows that the TSW slide and the std 4006 slide (top) have different widths in front. The Limited slide (bottom) had to have the forward slide rails made wider more like the TSW slide (middle).
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 28EBCBB2-8D31-4D04-A6AB-B4FF21072B62.jpeg (109.1 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by jimmarriott; 11-29-2021 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 11-29-2021, 05:58 PM
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I think its awesome, you lucky dog, TSW rails being the same cut as PCs , you did exactly what you needed to fit it. I was back at Armorers school and was hanging out in the P/C, watched them tapping slides back and forth, with compound, on frames, with the slide backwards, till it fit. Original gun must have been stolen and the frame/serialized part destroyed, so what a great save. Closest thing to a Mexican Spec Forces 5906, in a 5", most of us will ever see. I replaced the trigger bar in my 4006 with one with a trigger play spring it took all the slop out, but really not needed. Beretta dont have one. Please let us know how it shoots....

Last edited by CALREB; 11-29-2021 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 11-30-2021, 12:46 AM
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Thank you, Jim for the pictures and explanation.

Yes, that is the Performance Center Competition hammer.

S&W installed them on early 4006 pistols when it was discovered that the standard hammer was too heavy and causing slide battering and cracking.

It is NOT a MIM (Metal Injection Molded) hammer.

The PC Comp. hammer was expensive to machine and was only a short term fix until a less costly machined hammer with a big hole drilled through became its replacement.

Then the lighter MIM hammer came along and was the final spur hammer installed on all 3rd gen pistols until the end of production.

From the underside of the slide pictures, I can see that the PC slide has no plunger for the firing pin safety and that definitely would lighten the trigger pull.

The TSW slide rails are larger than the base model rails and do not interchange, but a number of the improvements made to the TSW models were inspired by the PC.

I also think you made the correct choice to "tweak" the slide and not the frame.

Bravo for a job well done!

John
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