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Old 02-16-2020, 07:19 PM
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Default S&W 4513 TSW NOS

Hello fellow S&W 45 Enthusiasts!

Just picked up a 4513 TSW listed as new old stock, and upon inspection, the gun is as described. It is one of the later manufactured 7rd versions with rail, but could not believe the find. I have read that the 4513s are getting harder to find. Got this one for a steal, so feels like Christmas!

The only problem is there is not a single gun in my safe that does not get shot. This may be the first. I need some convincing not to lock her away. There can't be many left in this unmolested condition, and it is tearing at me, but can't decide if I should leave her be, or start enjoying.

I have a 457, so I hoping some of the gurus can explain, and quantify, the step up from the 457 to 4513 TSW, how far of a leap is it?

Thanks for any feedback

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Old 02-16-2020, 07:23 PM
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Iíll gladly store it for you, removing any temptation.
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:09 PM
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Pictures are welcome here.
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Old 02-16-2020, 08:27 PM
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Here are a couple

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Old 02-16-2020, 08:28 PM
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Sorry the pics aren't great from phone.

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Old 02-16-2020, 11:55 PM
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Well, I suggest shoot it, shoot it, and shoot it more. How in the heck would you know if you even like it? Or if eventually you did sell it maybe it did not even work. I mean think about the next person that may possess it.

I donít know what you paid for it but if you figured getting it as an investment and not a viable choice to shoot, that makes a difference I suppose. (?)

I got my Pre-Rail 4513 to replace my 4516 for carry. It was carried and shot but not too much and always taken care of. I think I could sell it now for what I originally bought it for. New back then. (But I had an FFL.)

Jim
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Old 02-17-2020, 07:01 AM
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That's a beauty, would be hard to resist the temptation.

I have the same choice to make with a BNIB 3913, the majority here will tell you to shoot it and enjoy it.
I cleaned and lubed up my 3913 and put it back in the safe, my mind may change someday but they are only new once and I have other options to shoot right now.

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Old 02-17-2020, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnstopaNole99 View Post
Hello fellow S&W 45 Enthusiasts!

Just picked up a 4513 TSW listed as new old stock, and upon inspection, the gun is as described. It is one of the later manufactured 7rd versions with rail, but could not believe the find. I have read that the 4513s are getting harder to find. Got this one for a steal, so feels like Christmas!

The only problem is there is not a single gun in my safe that does not get shot. This may be the first. I need some convincing not to lock her away. There can't be many left in this unmolested condition, and it is tearing at me, but can't decide if I should leave her be, or start enjoying.

I have a 457, so I hoping some of the gurus can explain, and quantify, the step up from the 457 to 4513 TSW, how far of a leap is it?

Thanks for any feedback.
If you have shot the 457, then you have shot the 4513TSW.

These two pistols are so similar in design that nearly EVERY piece will interchange.

Slides, barrels, frames, grips, magazines all interchange.

IIRC the only parts that are different are the front sights and the magazine release assemblies. (The mag release parts from the 457 WILL work of the 4513TSW but not the other way around.)

Identical twins other than shape.

John
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Old 02-17-2020, 04:58 PM
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Well......I would respectfully beg to differ with my friend JohnHL. While everything he said is technically true, the 4513TSW is superior to the 457 in durability, performance and build quality.

I have over 9K rounds through an early production 457. And who knows how many through an original rail free 4513TSW. The 4513TSW and 457 have recieved identical maintenance - lubed frames and regular changing of recoil springs.

And the 457 is VERY worn and no longer as accurate as it was when new. The 4513TSW, an LE trade in with unknown round count and thousands of rounds through it, by me, is still tight and extremely accurate. Because it was built to stay that way.

The 457 was built as a "carry a lot shoot it a little" value line gun. Yes, they are both aluminum framed, compact 45s which share many parts. But one was made to be an affordable carry 45 and the other was marketed to LE as a service pistol, expected to hold up through at least 10 years of service.

Don't get me wrong, I like my 457 and carry it A LOT. I still stake my life on it going bang when I may need it to. But one reason I carry it is because of its reliability. Not its durability or accuracy after heavy use.

Shoot that 4513TSW. There is no reason not to. There does not appear to be any collector interest or added value to these fine pistols. And while I have shot MANY different models and makes of 45 compact carry gun, I have yet to come across one - for any price - that equals, let alone exceeds a 4513TSW. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:18 PM
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While I must agree with Brother 18 that the TSW is a more finely finished pistol and with its mated frame and slide may actually be a more finely fitted pistol, I don't think you will appreciate a great deal of difference between the two unless you shot them both, A LOT!

Lacking long term use, and if you are still on the fence between shooter or safe queen, try this little experiment:

Close you eyes and have someone hand you each pistol, so that you only close your hand on the grip and put your finger in the trigger guard.

Keep your eyes closed and don't let your helper tell you which pistol they are handing you and don't feel around for the rail.

Compare weight, grip, trigger pull.

I don't think you will be able to discern much of a difference.

Personally, it's your decision to save or shoot.

John
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:46 PM
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And then open your eyes, rest both on range bags and see which one you can shoot a 3 inch group with @ 25 yards, using the same ammo!
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Old 02-17-2020, 06:55 PM
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The TSWs had the slides hand fitted to the frames, the 457 was part of the value line. Rock the slides on both. The TSW will have very little movement, while you will be able to rock the slide side to side. The TSWs had much tighter tolerances, while the value line was mass produced. I have owned both and sold the 457 because it didn't shoot as well as my other 3rd gens. But I understand the want to keep the TSW as a safe queen, I am having the same problem with a 5946 NOS that I picked up. It is a hard call.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4T5GUY View Post
Well, I suggest shoot it, shoot it, and shoot it more. How in the heck would you know if you even like it? Or if eventually you did sell it maybe it did not even work. I mean think about the next person that may possess it.

I don’t know what you paid for it but if you figured getting it as an investment and not a viable choice to shoot, that makes a difference I suppose. (?)

I got my Pre-Rail 4513 to replace my 4516 for carry. It was carried and shot but not too much and always taken care of. I think I could sell it now for what I originally bought it for. New back then. (But I had an FFL.)

Jim
Thanks Jim, I kinda buy them all as investments....if you get my drift.

I could probably shoot it and still get more than I have in it, just was thinking about preserving it....who I am kidding I will probably have it to the next range session.

I have not found a single 3rd Gen that I didn't like so I am sure the 4513TSW will be no different.

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Old 02-18-2020, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Well......I would respectfully beg to differ with my friend JohnHL. While everything he said is technically true, the 4513TSW is superior to the 457 in durability, performance and build quality.

I have over 9K rounds through an early production 457. And who knows how many through an original rail free 4513TSW. The 4513TSW and 457 have recieved identical maintenance - lubed frames and regular changing of recoil springs.

And the 457 is VERY worn and no longer as accurate as it was when new. The 4513TSW, an LE trade in with unknown round count and thousands of rounds through it, by me, is still tight and extremely accurate. Because it was built to stay that way.

The 457 was built as a "carry a lot shoot it a little" value line gun. Yes, they are both aluminum framed, compact 45s which share many parts. But one was made to be an affordable carry 45 and the other was marketed to LE as a service pistol, expected to hold up through at least 10 years of service.

Don't get me wrong, I like my 457 and carry it A LOT. I still stake my life on it going bang when I may need it to. But one reason I carry it is because of its reliability. Not its durability or accuracy after heavy use.

Shoot that 4513TSW. There is no reason not to. There does not appear to be any collector interest or added value to these fine pistols. And while I have shot MANY different models and makes of 45 compact carry gun, I have yet to come across one - for any price - that equals, let alone exceeds a 4513TSW. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI
Thanks for the feedback 18DAI, I know they are getting harder to find and you don't see them as often on the Auctions, but you may be right on the collector interest. The earlier production models are definitely in more demand.
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Old 02-18-2020, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOOP01 View Post
The TSWs had the slides hand fitted to the frames, the 457 was part of the value line. Rock the slides on both. The TSW will have very little movement, while you will be able to rock the slide side to side. The TSWs had much tighter tolerances, while the value line was mass produced. I have owned both and sold the 457 because it didn't shoot as well as my other 3rd gens. But I understand the want to keep the TSW as a safe queen, I am having the same problem with a 5946 NOS that I picked up. It is a hard call.
Funny you mention that SWOOP01, I was comparing the two last night and that was one of the main differences I noticed in quality. The slide to frame fit is much tighter and there are far tighter tolerances on the 4513TSW.
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Old 02-18-2020, 04:50 AM
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Yes, the early version, no rail - 6 round mag, brings more money on the auction boards. It was made for the shortest period of time. 1997 to 1999 IIRC. That particular variant is my favorite carry gun. Actually my favorite handgun extant. And I have some nice ones.

With the aquisition of a Recon 45 recently, I have owned all the variants of the 4513. I still think the 1st one was the best of the bunch. Enjoy yours! Regards 18DAI
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Old 02-18-2020, 06:39 AM
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I carry my 4513TSW a lot and I shoot it better than I shoot almost any other gun I own. It's a sweetheart. (And I gotta confess, I never thought of putting it in the safe, I got it for carry because of it's finer fitting and I had a 457 I think I sold to pay for the 4513.)

Shoot it, enjoy it, buy some Amazon stock if you want to invest. Well, maybe not, it's just hit another record high. Microsoft anyone?
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:03 PM
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I blame 18DAI for my addiction to 3rd gens and even more so for the early xx13 models. Since I read about his love of the weapons, I researched them and fell for them myself. I started with a single 3913 and then got a 4513 and it was a few months before I found a 3913TSW pre-rail. It had a slight mark on it and I canít unsee that mark. So I found a new 3913 pre and then the hunt was on. Sometimes I swear Iím only here to track down more pre-rails. I have a couple of the 4513TSW pre and one has a scuff so I carry it. The pristine ones just sit. The 4013TSWís are the only ones I have that have matching numbered slide/frame/barrels. Any idea why that is?

And please, if there are any guns more fun than the TSW pre-rails DO NOT tell me about them! 😂
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:30 PM
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Oddly enough, my 457S has about the least slide rock of any of my 3rd Gens. It's a 2002 built gun, so maybe that's part of the explanation. My 457 has far more rock, and it was built in 2004

My 3913TSW w/rail has more rock, while my pre rail 3953TSW has less. My pre rail 3913TSW has even less rock than that, although it's the 3rd Gen that gets show the most.

From all of that, I can draw no conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWOOP01 View Post
The TSWs had the slides hand fitted to the frames, the 457 was part of the value line. Rock the slides on both. The TSW will have very little movement, while you will be able to rock the slide side to side. The TSWs had much tighter tolerances, while the value line was mass produced. I have owned both and sold the 457 because it didn't shoot as well as my other 3rd gens. But I understand the want to keep the TSW as a safe queen, I am having the same problem with a 5946 NOS that I picked up. It is a hard call.
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Old 02-19-2020, 09:25 PM
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Oddly enough, my 457S has about the least slide rock of any of my 3rd Gens. It's a 2002 built gun, so maybe that's part of the explanation. My 457 has far more rock, and it was built in 2004

My 3913TSW w/rail has more rock, while my pre rail 3953TSW has less. My pre rail 3913TSW has even less rock than that, although it's the 3rd Gen that gets show the most.

From all of that, I can draw no conclusions.
Bravo, Gary.

The real world sure has a way of playing heck with internet "theories".

That is MY conclusion.

John
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