Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols > Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols
GenBiz

Notices

Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols Other Smith & Wesson Semi-Automatic Pistols from the 1950's to Present


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-2022, 05:56 PM
NavyVet24 NavyVet24 is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 28
Likes: 25
Liked 62 Times in 18 Posts
Default Model 41 Jamming

I bought a 1983 mfr Model 41 w/box, tools, manual recently. No apparent sign that it was ever fired. Cleaned thoroughly and oiled lightly. Test fired with CCI Standard Velocity (1070 fps). Repeated jams. Cleaned again thinking it must be something I missed. Yesterday, same thing. Spent case not fully ejecting and round coming out of magazine jamming against spent case. Changed to Eley Target (yellow label) and it was much better. I am thinking that I need to use a bit faster ammo for a few hundred rounds to better break it in. Maybe even some CCI Target at 1200 fps. TIA for the learned advice of other 41 owners.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 06-30-2022, 06:20 PM
oysterer's Avatar
oysterer oysterer is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,500
Likes: 1,621
Liked 2,580 Times in 836 Posts
Default

I run 7.0 lbs recoil springs in mine when shooting standard velocity instead of the 7.5 lbs stock. Works very very well. What you describe is a recoil spring problem, slide not going back far enough
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 06-30-2022, 06:56 PM
Hair Trigger's Avatar
Hair Trigger Hair Trigger is offline
US Veteran
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: western NC
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 1,524
Liked 4,501 Times in 1,403 Posts
Default

I have a M41 a couple of years newer than yours (1985), and I had similar issues when I first got it, using the low end of SV ammo. I started using ammo like Remington Thunderbolt and Golden Bullet, which is around 1250-1300 fps, and it hasn't malfunctioned once, so I'm thinking the other stuff doesn't have enough energy to properly cycle the action. I suppose a different spring set could also fix your issue, but I'd try some higher velocity ammo first. just don't go as far as Stingers, they have a longer case and may not feed as well, and are probably too HV.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-30-2022, 09:06 PM
series guy series guy is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Steel City
Posts: 1,931
Likes: 5,537
Liked 3,866 Times in 1,229 Posts
Default

I had the exact same issue. Now I spray a little Ballistol on my CCI SV rounds. Haven’t had an issue since.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 06-30-2022, 10:00 PM
Baltimoreed11754's Avatar
Baltimoreed11754 Baltimoreed11754 is online now
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 788
Likes: 400
Liked 1,395 Times in 484 Posts
Default

As Iíve decided to shoot my Red Dot 1990s M41 in 2 gun matches instead of a 1952 MT Woodsman. Iíve been using Federal 550 box to experiment with. Iíve put a couple hundred through it with no problems. It has a buffer. Shooting offhand and at speed are you guys seeing any real difference between sv and hs ammo?

Last edited by Baltimoreed11754; 06-30-2022 at 10:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-01-2022, 02:52 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,279
Likes: 6,387
Liked 19,249 Times in 6,936 Posts
Default

Standard "fixes" include:

1) Buy and install a Volquartsen Extractor (about $15 bucks last I checked). Much improvement over the factory one and will usually remedy the problem.

2) You can try installing a 7 pound spring instead of the 7.5 Factory one. If Wolff has not already corrected the issue, install the opened end rearward or your M41 will quickly jam closed - not fun! They might have corrected the issue by finishing both ends now -just giving you the heads up.

3) Try a few different Magazines (preferably vintage metal follower type).

4) Try some other type of ammo. Yes- the CCI standard velocity 40 grain is usually what works best in 95% of M41's, however there are a few exceptions. Certainly worth a shot.

When I had similar issues when my M41 was new in 1980 I shot a brick of High Velocity ammo through the pistol. Not only did that work flawlessly but it seemed to break in the pistol for the standard velocity ammo after that initial brick. I would not use any really hot ammo but regular CCI or Federal HV 40 grain ammo might do the trick. No accuracy loss or excessive wear was done but I would do this with the standard 7.5 lb Factory Recoil Spring - not a lighter one.

Last edited by chief38; 07-01-2022 at 02:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 07-01-2022, 11:31 AM
NavyVet24 NavyVet24 is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 28
Likes: 25
Liked 62 Times in 18 Posts
Default

Thanks a ton to all. It appears that my thoughts about velocity not being high enough for full slide cycling are probably correct. I will keep the standard spring for now and run a brick of higher velocity 40 Gr rounds through it, then reassess. In the meantime, I will try to find some original type magazines since i only have the 2 that came with it. Also, continue my searching for a 7" barrel. So odd that the box is serial number correct for this pistol, but it has a 5.5" barrel instead of the 7" marked on the box. I guess things like this are what makes life interesting - much better than watching the news.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 07-01-2022, 11:58 AM
chief38's Avatar
chief38 chief38 is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 15,279
Likes: 6,387
Liked 19,249 Times in 6,936 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyVet24 View Post
Thanks a ton to all. It appears that my thoughts about velocity not being high enough for full slide cycling are probably correct. I will keep the standard spring for now and run a brick of higher velocity 40 Gr rounds through it, then reassess. In the meantime, I will try to find some original type magazines since i only have the 2 that came with it. Also, continue my searching for a 7" barrel. So odd that the box is serial number correct for this pistol, but it has a 5.5" barrel instead of the 7" marked on the box. I guess things like this are what makes life interesting - much better than watching the news.
Yes - a Brick of HV might help wear in the gun and compress the factory spring slightly. If you want to sick with std. vel. simply order a 7 pound recoil spring - MAKE SURE to install it open end rearward if Wolff has not corrected the issue yet. If you haven't already done so - the Volquartsen Extracor also helps greatly if that is the issue. Not hard to install and not expensive.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 07-01-2022, 06:19 PM
Larks Larks is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 127
Likes: 84
Liked 104 Times in 40 Posts
Default

If you do a search on M41 jamming here youíll found dozens of threads on the subject and I went through all of the proposed ďfixesĒ that have been pointed out here already ..... largely to no avail.

I put that down to every gun being different so donít give up if the first thing that you try doesnít work - in my case I believe it is a combination of fixes have given me a result. Here are some of the things that I went through over the years - roughly in order:

Clean gun meticulously after every use and oil sparingly with a very fine grade gun oil. Result: possible slight improvement but issue not resolved

Try multiple types of ammoí, including higher velocity ammo. Result: CCI Standard Velocity gave best result (High velocity ammo of any brand gave the worst)

Drop of oil on the first round. Result: no improvement

Clean magazines. Result: no improvement

Clean brass with Balistol. Result: possibly a very slight improvement on the day of cleaning but still getting ejection failures and any ammo was definitely no better than uncleaned ammo a week or more later (I wonder if the Balistol must gum up a bit after a while in hot weather...???).

Volquartsen after market extractor. Result: no real improvement

Clean ammo with G96 (lay the ammo on a soft cloth, quick squirt of G96 and roll the ammo around in the cloth for a while). Result: slight improvement but still enough ejection failures during a compí to ruin the run.

Carefully polish the breach with a fine metal polish (a gunsmith had suggested reaming it). Result: I have now not had a single jam in over 2000 rounds now since doing so (knock on wood). I shoot a steel challenge competition with my M41 fortnightly and have been regularly winning the compí since finally resolving this ejection issue after so many years of persisting with it.

BUT - I put it down to a combination of factors, not just the polishing:

I still have the aftermarket Volquartsen extractor fitted;

I still clean the firearm meticulously after every shoot and oil sparingly with a very fine gun oil; and

I still clean my ammo with G96 before every shoot

Last edited by Larks; 07-01-2022 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 07-01-2022, 06:46 PM
armorer951's Avatar
armorer951 armorer951 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 398
Liked 9,515 Times in 3,073 Posts
Default

Do you mean that you polished the "breech" or the chamber? If the chamber, can you elaborate on how you polished the chamber, and what specific "fine metal polish" you used? Thanks
__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Last edited by armorer951; 07-01-2022 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:08 AM
Larks Larks is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 127
Likes: 84
Liked 104 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer951 View Post
Do you mean that you polished the "breech" or the chamber? If the chamber, can you elaborate on how you polished the chamber, and what specific "fine metal polish" you used? Thanks
Deju-vu.......havenít we had this discussion before? When I say breech I mean the back end of the barrel which includes the chamber......I use the term breech to include the chamber and am unlikely to change that habit after 60 years.


The attached vid (which I had posted here back in January Mod 41 Eject fails - an observation on ammo variability ) shows how I polished it, what I didnít mention in the video or in the above comment is that I also polished the feed ramp while I had the polish out (as I donít believe that was effecting my ejection issues):


My Movie 1 - YouTube
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:13 AM
AveragEd AveragEd is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Enola, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,258
Likes: 564
Liked 2,336 Times in 1,059 Posts
Default

What you've read above is very accurate. I recently bought a new 7" Model 41 and it almost will not eject an empty case - they lie across the round being chambered as described by the OP. S&W suggested using CCI SV ammo as that is what they test-fire with; I was using match fodder. They also suggested a Wolff 7# spring which I bought but thought if it passed test-firing with the factory 7.5# spring, maybe they should look at it so it's been back about two weeks now as the CCI SV didn't eject either.

On another topic, I'd like to put a dot optic on it when it comes back - any suggestions for a no-gunsmithing mount?

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:39 AM
Larks Larks is offline
Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 127
Likes: 84
Liked 104 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AveragEd View Post
What you've read above is very accurate. I recently bought a new 7" Model 41 and it almost will not eject an empty case - they lie across the round being chambered as described by the OP. S&W suggested using CCI SV ammo as that is what they test-fire with; I was using match fodder. They also suggested a Wolff 7# spring which I bought but thought if it passed test-firing with the factory 7.5# spring, maybe they should look at it so it's been back about two weeks now as the CCI SV didn't eject either.

On another topic, I'd like to put a dot optic on it when it comes back - any suggestions for a no-gunsmithing mount?

Ed
First suggestion - search ďM41 red dotĒ on this forum and youíll find multiple options
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:22 PM
Hair Trigger's Avatar
Hair Trigger Hair Trigger is offline
US Veteran
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: western NC
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 1,524
Liked 4,501 Times in 1,403 Posts
Default

I've read most, if not all, the posts on this forum regarding problems with the M41. It seems like, the newer the pistol is, the more likely there have been issues with function, especially since about 1995-2000, when people have mentioned the age of the pistol.

I bought mine from a LGS, where it had been sitting on the shelf for several months. The store owner's dad (a very knowledgeable firearms person, an Army SF armorer) had purchased the pistol many years ago (it was made in 1985, not sure if he was the original owner) and had obviously not fired it much, if at all. It was clean outside and in perfect condition, but while not terribly dirty inside, had some accumulated grime on the breech face around the extractor and around the top of the magazine well. I fired it like that and it would fail to eject about 3 rounds out of every magazine, either from not extracting the fired round, or from "stove piping" the partially ejected round. I disassembled it and thoroughly cleaned it, scrubbing the breech and extractor area especially well. greased the slide rails with Lubriplate 130A and lightly oiled the mechanism and then wiped it. I tried a higher velocity ammo the next time out (Remington Golden Bullet and Remington Thunderbolt), and it has not malfunctioned since, after maybe 350 rounds. I concluded that the ammo I had used the first time was too low a MV for reliable function, since the action is a blowback design, although the thorough cleaning certainly didn't hurt anything. Polishing the breech, chamber and feed ramp should aid in both feeding and extraction, and I will probably do this to my pistol.

Last edited by Hair Trigger; 07-02-2022 at 12:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-02-2022, 12:44 PM
armorer951's Avatar
armorer951 armorer951 is online now
SWCA Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
Posts: 5,707
Likes: 398
Liked 9,515 Times in 3,073 Posts
Default

Thanks for the video and description. Hopefully, this will help someone in the future.
__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-02-2022, 02:44 PM
sceva's Avatar
sceva sceva is offline
SWCA Member
Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming Model 41 Jamming  
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NE IL but I'm from Ohio
Posts: 1,567
Likes: 88
Liked 1,849 Times in 550 Posts
Default

[QUOTE=NavyVet24;lso, continue my searching for a 7" barrel. So odd that the box is serial number correct for this pistol, but it has a 5.5" barrel instead of the 7" marked on the box. I guess things like this are what makes life interesting .[/QUOTE]

Your Mod 41 probably originally had a 7" barrel like the box said and someone added a 5.5" barrel and sold the 7". They are usually pretty much drop in.
__________________
Sceva
OGCA SWCA NRA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Model 41 jamming jimc00 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 27 11-21-2019 09:33 AM
Model 1 1/2 jamming up rta72 S&W Antiques 35 08-20-2019 05:59 PM
Model 41 jamming CrankyThunder Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 22 02-25-2019 10:12 PM
Model 41 jamming up Gros21 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 21 07-15-2017 11:55 AM
S&W model 59 jamming newbie8518 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 12 03-31-2015 05:30 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:44 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)