my brother-in-law picked up a really nice condition smith ,mod 39 9mm , he ordered a holster for it and carries it as his inside the waist band concealed carry handgun,
when I asked him how much he paid,
and how well does it shoot, his response was,
I got it from some retired cops wife , who my wife knows,
who sold it to me for $450, I have not yet,
gotten to shoot it yet, but the cops wife says he used it to win several pistol matches in his department!

I was amazed and shocked... why would anyone trust a pistol they had yet too fire even once as their concealed carry handgun, to me the idea is incredulous/ absurd!

I know I've shot at least 5-6 boxes of ammo through any handgun I've carried before I even considered carrying it, and in most cases far more, the 1006 I generally carry has been used for decades, Ive yet to have a mis feed or other issue, and gets cleaned, lubed and shot every few weeks, its never given me any issues.
I'm wondering how many people carry a handgun that they have rarely shot?
I asked several people I know and it seems like its just not that rare, several people , when I asked..said they had only fired a box or two, before carrying their CCW handguns, to me that's absurd
your thoughts guys?
one guy even said, "its a brand new glock 17",
what could go wrong?

I agree with your summation.

My CCW weapons have all been in use for a minimum of 22 years and a maximum of over 40 years and they have been truly tried and tested over thousands of rounds and duty as an LEO.

A quick story to support your thread: I bought one of the new Model 66 dash something or other with the new 2.75" barrel and the ball crane lock last year. In testing after purchase, it jammed after just a few rounds of 357 ammo. Yes... a revolver jammed believe it or not. The only way to clear it was to open the cylinder, reclose and then fire a few more rounds before the DA and SA operation froze again.

A trip to the gunsmith fixed it, but I totally lost confidence and any desire to own the revolver. It went down the road on a trade at the gun store where I bought it. The gunsmith told be that it was a problem with the fitting of the hand. I had assumed that it was the Hillary lock, but it was not the problem.

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Keep your powder dry.

This won't provide any solace I'm afraid, but many people legally carry loaded firearms on their person and in their vehicles without ever receiving any familiarization training or firearms training with the gun at all. Many do not know the first thing about the guns they are carrying.

Today, this is not rare....it's the norm. These kinds of folks constitute a very real danger not only to themselves, their families and neighbors, but to those of us around them.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I won't carry a firearm until I have put at least 100 and preferably 200 rounds through it. Not just for the sake of determining reliability, but for becoming familiar with the firearms characteristics.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Don't need to limit it to people who carry. There are probably way more people who have bought home defense firearms and ammo, but have yet to shoot the purchase.

For protection, my in-law's neighbors had bought a new J-frame .38 and a .380 Bodyguard, with hollow points for each. They forgot where each was stored. They thought each was put away loaded. They were not. They'd forgotten the manual of arms of each, if they ever knew it at all.



Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

Every time I go to the range (which I wish I could do more often) I carry one of my self-defense pistols and shoot no less than 3 mags with it. I can't imagine carrying anything, even a knife, without being 100% sure it works as it should.

I think most people buy a gun, maybe shoot a few rounds, load it up, and call it good. It was probably more common in years past, which accounts for all the sock-drawer guns we covet.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

With a revolver, There is no need to put hundreds of rounds thru it for testing.
Autos should get more, using ALL the magazines you have for it.
Keep in mind a lot of people do not have access or at least easy access to a place to shoot, so that has an effect on testing and practice. Most are not shooting enthusiasts either, and know that the chances they will ever have to shoot in a SD situation are pretty slim.
Even in America from coast to coast in the 1800’s most people did not shoot their handguns unless they had to either.
Then there are the current ammo availability and cost issues.

It has always been a pretty common situation. Especially now.

I do pretty much just the opposite. I take my 2 most frequently carried EDC guns to the range and put a couple of mags full through them just about every trip.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

It's very common. We're firearms enthusiasts here. For most people, the gun is just another tool. I don't run classes anymore, but there were some really eye-popping things we ran across, sometimes more than once. I very rarely disparaged a gun choice right out of the gate, but the problems usually became evident pretty quick, and embarrassment is a great teacher. You bring a Lorcin or Jimenez to a handgun class, good luck. You bring your granddad's gun you inherited but don't know how to shoot, that we could help with (provided it wasn't a Ring of Fire gun, Rohm, etc). And sure, lots of folks would leave with their gun loaded up with range ammo because they didn't know better or (rarely) had some irrational fear of defensive ammo.

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Psalm 27:2

I will not carry a gun until I have put a few hundred rounds through it with at least 50 - 75 of those rounds being the defensive ammo I will be using if I do carry it.

But realistically, it is so uncommon for a good quality striker fired 9mm like a M&P Compact or Glock 19 to fail someone carrying one without test firing it isn't completely irrational. As long as they have shot a similar gun and are familiar with how to use it. Same goes for most revolvers.

Small guns are a different story. I bought a P365 a couple of years after they came out and after all the initial problems were supposedly resolved. But right of the box I had some failures to go completely into battery. After it broke in those quit happening but I started to get failures to eject. The empties would stay in the chamber like the gun had no extractor. Sig fixed the gun and it has not failed in over 1000 rounds since but I am glad I tested it before I started carrying it. Guns that push the limit of how small and light a gun can be for a particular caliber are always going to be less reliable than guns that don't. People that aren't gun enthusiasts will not know that and might be carrying an untested gun with a problem.

I have known a few people that did that. It wasn't so much an irrational fear of defensive ammo as it was not wanting to spend $25 for a 20 round box of ammo. When I tried to point out the advantages of HP ammo they shrugged and said it wasn't worth it.

I recently bought a well used 686-4 2.5 inch that had the smoothest action dry firing. Like others above I fully shoot anything before carrying it. First range trip I had an experience like Sharf - locked up and had to open and close cylinder to resume firing. It’s fixed now after gunsmith replaced hammer and trigger (bubba had bobbed and thinned trigger) and did action job. I shot a qual course with it yesterday no issues.

Depressingly common. He's depending upon a tool he likely doesn't know how to use to save life.

Maybe 20 years ago, the local center for socialist indoctrination (college labeled "university") got a new Campus Police Chief. One of his first acts was to buy ARs. When defending the purchase he noted that he'd been issued one in his previous job and had deployed with it at incidents several times. BUT HAD NEVER FIRED IT!

I know several folks who has a gun in the nightstand that has never fired. Loaded the Mag and in the nightstand. They say they just don't have the time to visit the range, or " I've shot a gun before".
Not me 300-400 rounds through any gun before I carry. Just makes sense!

Any gun I buy, new or used, gets field stripped, cleaned, lubed as soon as I get it home.

Any gun I might have to use for self defense goes to the range for a function test before I carry it.

Others are not so diligent, but that's their problem.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I suspect many see a firearm as an emergency tool, like a fire extinguisher or flashlight, that just needs to be used as needed and instinctively. Unfortunately, guns are a little more complex and difficult to manage.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I'm sure that's a factor too. But I've heard it out of people's own mouths; they're scared of litigation e.g. their brother's neighbor who's a lawyer sez they get people in hot water for using those evil dum dum boolits all the time. OK no one actually said that specific story, but (shocking, I know) there is still a lot of ignorant fear out there.

From reading LTC Grossman's On Killing, I'm also convinced that a large percentage of people who want a gun for defensive purposes want it to go bang and make noise, but taking out a threat is not something they wish to think about or consider. Grossman calls it posturing and firearms are great for that. It doesn't mean the rest of us are bloodthirsty psychopaths, but that we've mentally and psychologically conditioned ourselves for a defense encounter (or, if your profession requires it, an offensive encounter).

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Psalm 27:2

I was in my LGS about 6 months ago when a guy was buying a .410/.45LC derringer. First thing he did was snap at another customer without a mask that "he was too close", but I digress.
He was trying to open it, couldn't so the sales guy showed him, to which he replied "can you write that down for me?"
He then asked if he could shoot .38 spl with it.
Told "no", he moved on to ask if he could get a shoulder holster for it.
I'm thinking, "for a small 2 barrel derringer?"
He then asked about ammo, was told where he could find some, and went off and came back with a small box of 5 rounds of .410.
Clearly, if he remembers how to open it, he'll load 2 rounds and think he's good to go.
I'm thinking he'll never practice with it, and if he ever has to pull the trigger, he'll miss and scare the hell out of himself in the process.
Thought it would be good for the LGS to have someone (like me) to coach him a bit about what he should do, as well as sell him a gun.

Thank goodness the CCW hero who took-out the mall shooter in Indiana a couple weeks ago knew what he was doing and was not one of these negligent idiots who carry but do not practice.

Close friend of mine has a 617 pre-lock I am trying to separate from him unsuccessfully for a few years...

He got it from a LGS years ago when that model was current.

A guy walked in and bought it, PA paperwork and a few minutes later he was on his way. Put the gun in the tank, wanted to load it up and came running back into the LGS saying his ammo doesn't fit.

Well it is a 22, not a 357.

Traded it back in another 5 minutes later. Just goes to show, no all are gun nuts like us, nuts yes, just not gun...

I'm shocked he bought a M39 for CCW.

I'm continually amazed -- and not in a good way -- by people who treat guns more as a talisman than a tool. I try to point out, as gently as possible, that owning a firearm for protection is pointless if you don't know how to use it. It would be like trying to make music with a guitar you've never learned to play...

Not everyone who buys a gun likes guns. After what we just went through I think most buyers were watching the nightly news and thought "I better get one while I can". The reality is that they're not going to train with it. They might shoot it. Or not. They might try carrying it for a while and very soon realize that it's not as easy as it seems to be armed. With no real commitment, the gun goes in a draw or gets sold off never to be heard of until the next global apocalypse. It's no different than anything else. It's a lot like that person who buys a tread mill. It starts out with an idea but once the realization sets in that there is work associated with it and it's hard, it turns into a clothes rack.

Why should he practice with it, the gun was good enough to win several matches with. What more do you want.

One of the guys I shoot with, every Tuesday evening, teaches the NRA handgun classes here. He gets people who just bought a gun, usually an inexpensive semi auto, who know nothing at all about the gun. While he is glad they take the class and get an idea especially about gun safety, the results when they actual do the shooting portion, the results are not encouraging and he says less than half of them show any inclination to practice even after miserable results at short range.

Our group started out this spring with about 12 people every Tuesday, lately it has been just 3 of us. Tom who leads it had always been encouraging, was making it simple, yet the ones who probably needed the most practice did not stay around long.

Try and catch your breath. We are not living in the O.K. Coral or downtown Baghdad. I bet that he will be able to carry his gun around untried for a few days, probably even a few weeks, and survive.

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NRA Life Member

After working in a gun shop for a summer in 2014, my eyes were opened.

For everyone of "us", who know the manual of arms for their gun, who know how to safely handle and carry our guns, there are 5 people who are clueless/ignorant/or just plain out don't give a **** about how to be a safe, proficient gun owner.

I thought working in a gun shop would be my dream job.

There are people out there who shouldn't be able to carry a spork, let alone a gun.

JMHO YMMV

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

People who know almost nothing about guns and never ever practice successfully shoot other people every day. Point gun, pull trigger.

Its our hobby, so we gun folks will obsess over stance and grip and sight picture and when to do a tactical reload and if this bullet sacrifices penetration for expansion.

Meanwhile, Dipstick knows if he can get close to Junebug all he has to do is point gun, pull trigger.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I dont carry guns I haven't had out to the range, but I'd not worry had I just purchased a Glock 19 or somesuch and didn't have a chance to take it out.

A model 39? Ehhhhhh...but he will be fine. He's made it this far without a carry piece, the odds that he'll be attacked before taking it to the range are tiny, and even smaller still the idea that it won't work. I don't think it's the best idea but most carry guns act as "tiger repellent rocks" for us anyways.

Welcome to Chicago.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

I think every gun is different. If I bought a new K frame to carry I’d put 24-30 rounds through it and be good to go. I’m already familiar with the platform. When my new Sig 365 arrives I’ll probably put 100 rds through it before carrying………. I do however put 50 rds through my carry gun every month.

When I transitioned to Glocks for my carry guns I put 1000 rounds through the 2, a model 22 and 27 before carrying them. I was already a department and FBI LE instructor but I had never carried a striker fired trigger safety gun before, having come up with 1911s, Beretta and Smith. I was just not comfortable with the Glock.

It really scares me sometimes at the range with I see an obvious new shooter walk up with the factory box and start screwing around trying to load and shoot whatever they bought. I've seen at least twice people not have the right caliber ammo.

I've got a neighbor who bought a S&W Bodyguard pistol a while ago (before I met him). He showed it to me a few weeks ago and I asked how he likes it. That is when he informed me that he never shot it!

When I said to him let's go tho the Range next week, he said we'll see - we never got to go. Now I am after him to make a trip there within a few days to familiarize himself with the gun. He does carry it on occasion and also rely's on it as a SD / HD gun. When I asked him how he felt about having a loaded gun on his person and never having shot it - he didn't see that as a major problem.

BTW my neighbor is a pretty bright, hard working (not lazy) fellow - I was actually shocked at his "gun attitude". That said, me, being me, I will get him out to the Range to familiarize himself with the pistol. I will also show him how to disassemble and clean it - more than likely he will never shoot it again unless I drag him back to the Range.

Exactly. When we had a small firearms business we picked up a lot of guns that had very little if any use. It was the norm for someone wanting to sell a gun and a full box of ammo or maybe a 5-6 rounds fired. They bought the gun and a box of ammo and that was it.
That's why it's a total joke when someone says "Buy a LE gun. Very little use, just carried". They really have no idea what guns are like coming in for sale. LE guns are usually the most used than what is the norm for non-LE guns.
The one advantage tho of a LE agency owned gun is most likely it's been maintained. With a non-LE owned gun no matter how little wear it shows you have to look it over real carefully to make sure the kitchen table butcher hasn't "customized" it with a dremel action job.

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183rd FBINA

Most people who carry a gun are not really what I'd call gun people. I'd say that the majority have rarely shot the handgun that they carry and can't hit anything outside of touching distances.

Look on the bright side. Most of the bad guys don't practice either.

I would have to agree, working in a gun store I got to see a lot of guns that had been used very little (if at all!) coming in the door. People often bought a gun, then needed money and brought it to the shop (and were often shocked to find out it wasn't going to sell for what they had paid for it) Often brought in with the one box of ammo they had, either full or missing just a couple rounds.

Sadly LE guns were no guarantee of proper maintenance. We used to buy various trade in LE and military guns from distributors to sell in the shop. Found out it was a good idea to go through them carefully before putting them out for sale. Damaged magazines, sights and grips were not uncommon. Also saw the occasional messed up trigger, usually on a revolver. Either a poorly trained armorer or someone thinking he knew better trying to "fix" it I'm guessing. Cosmetic issues were no big deal but functional issues we didn't want going out the door if we could prevent it. Had a couple Glocks in one shipment that seemed to have been glued into non-functional status by some type of lube that was overused and gelled into a sticky mess (worse than the cosmoline found in a lot of the mil-surp guns). Similar to a bunch of guns from an estate I handled, too much of the wrong lube can be a problem.

For several years before I retired I was one of the main go-to guys at work for concealed carry questions. I found it both surprising and disheartening that so many people did not test fire their weapons substantially before carrying them. Even revolvers CAN have issues. Semi-autos often do during break-in. I also found a lot of guys NEVER rotated their off-duty carry ammo. I always recommended at least one box of carry ammo thru a revolver before carrying it and at least 200 rounds thru a semi-auto and significant familiarization / break-in for any new weapon / holster combination.

I Usually rotate my carry guns between a S&W MP EZ Shield in 9mm, A Sig P 365, 9MM and a Ruger LC9 in mm. I always carry a spare magazine. I also carry my S&W switch blade knife. If I carry a backup gun it is my Beretta Model 21A in 22 long Rifle. Or one of my mouse guns in 25 ACP. They have all been test fired many times. I rotate the Pistols according to my clothing or where I am going to in my travels. I never leave my Home unarmed. I have been carrying Firearms since I was 19 years old. I feel naked when I am unarmed.

If it’s a platform/design I trust, from a maker that I’ve been to their armorer school, and it hits all the function tests, I’ll carry a pistol without firing it.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

When I was stationed in Calif. We had three ranges on base for pistol and shotgun. We had sixty Law Enforcement Agencies using our ranges. The local PD's would not let a pistol on the street unless it had 250 trouble free rounds down range. If if hung up at 249, the clock was reset to zero.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I worked at a gun-shop in Hialeah fla for a few years
I remember one guy who brought in a model 19 S&W and a remington 870pump shotgun, both were smeared internally and externally with some black slime.. I asked what this guy used for gun oil... he said CRISCO!
we declined to buy either gun.

Ammo is hard to come by and expensive.

Difficult to practice as much as you should.

A retired cop friend says always practice with the defense ammo you carry.

That's nearly impossible. You're lucky to score a 20 round box of quality defense ammo a couple times a year.

Still, some practice is better than none -- and necessary.

One good thing is I have a couple guns that were bought new and kept in a drawer for a few decades unused then finally sold by the purchaser's widow.

Good source of collectables.

I think I’ve met that guy. Did he have a man bun and wear socks with sandals? If u look at his paperwork he’s 112lbs 30 yrs old and has same address as his parents. But he does have 3 degrees and makes a great mocha latte grande. Yes I know him well

If your argument is that Model 39s haven't been made for decades and parts are a problem, this is true. On the other hand, they were the Illinois state police issued duty weapon from approximately 1967-1980. One of the reasons for issuing the Model 39 was that it was a pistol that could be carried on or off duty (required back then, don't know about recently, as I retired in '93). The thought was that troopers would be carrying the off-duty pistol that they carried on duty.

I think I have an apt analogy. A home do-it-yourselfer buys a hammer (often the cheaper the better) and puts in a drawer confident it will drive a nail when needed. A cabinetmaker owns several hammers for different tasks and has driven many nails with each of them, making sure he has the right hammer for the right job.
Which kind of hammer owner are you? Are the others all wrong? HMM...
Froggie

This is not the concealed carry sub forum and I expect the moderators to move the thread.

Here in New Jersey there are many dumb laws. Based on the above, the New Jersey law that you qualify on your carry weapon for both safe handling and accuracy does seem to make sense as it forces all who legally carry be familiar with their carry weapon.

In my qualification class we had to shoot 50 rounds including 10 at 25 yards and 5 rounds one handed with each hand. I had never shot any gun one handed so in addition to practicing 25 yards I practiced one handed at 5 yards BEFORE the qualification test. The qualification instructor requires us to load only 5 rounds in the magazine so we had to safely load the magazines and insert them in and out of the weapon 10 times during the test.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Well, I was impressed with the original owner winning department matches with a model 39…

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Well, I was impressed with the original owner winning department matches with a model 39…

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Of course he was competing against other guys in his department, each of whom was competing … with a Model 39…

Actually, a Model 39 is a very comfortable, dare I say, natural pointing weapon, so I can see the guys who really made an effort to shoot them well getting good results. Just sayin’. I know the 39 series appeals to a lot of shooters, including myself.

Froggie