Just wondering if anyone has heard whether S&W is planning a small carry .380 or .32 to compete with the Keltec P3AT and the Ruger LCP? I'm considering an LCP but if Smith is coming out with something, perhaps I'll wait...

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And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal

Just wondering if anyone has heard whether S&W is planning a small carry .380 or .32 to compete with the Keltec P3AT and the Ruger LCP? I'm considering an LCP but if Smith is coming out with something, perhaps I'll wait...

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And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal

I would hope it was better than their last 380.

Hold off and wait for the Walther PK380. Its the same size as the P22, 7/8 rounds, 19 0z.. and shipping now. As you know Smith and walther are now the same.

Do you know what the pricing will be on the PK380? One of the attractive things about the LCP is it's price tag.

I'm sure the PK380 will be a great gun, but it's twice as heavy and seems to be much larger than the LCP... not meant for pocket carry. I was wondering if/hoping that Smith was planning a .380 or .32 mouse gun to compete with the LCP and the Keltec.

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And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal

I hope they do. Ruger LCPs are still selling like hotcakes. Kahr is selling every little 380 they make.

I love my pocket P3AT from Keltec.It shoots point of aim and is perfect for trips to the Stop and Rob.If Smith came out with one as good I would buy it.Mike

Ruger and Keltec .380s are also hard to find. People are snapping them up. An even bigger problem with .380s is that there's almost no ammo left to buy. If that is ever rectified- and I've heard it might be this way the rest of the year- then I agree that Smith would be well-served in getting a gun into this market.

I've never seen one in person, but the LCP looks almost like a dead ringer for the P3AT, which makes me wonder if Ruger licensed it. It does seem to have a nicer fit-n-finish than the Keltec. I've heard both of these have a pretty strong recoil.

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And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal

Ruger never lisc'd the P3AT. The P3AT is still made by KelTec.

Conventional wisdom is that pushing a low cost .380 would cut into J frame sales, which are fairly lucrative. They're also possibly an institutional distaste caused by the lackluster Sigma .380 of some years ago.

The Kahr P380 is even SMALLER than the Kel-Tec P3AT, and is the class of the micro .380 field. It even locks open on the last shot and has a slide release lever, just like a "real" gun.

Unless Smith were to make a gun as small, it would not sell against the P380, except to Smith loyalists. Unless the Smith were as inexpensive as the P3AT, it would not sell well against the P3AT or Ruger LCP, except to Smith loyalists.

Since I hate giving the Moonies my money to buy a Kahr, I would prefer that Smith made a totally competitive product to the P380, but I am not holding my breath in this market.

I am trying to get a Kahr, but no luck so far. There really is nothing wrong with my Kel-Tec, but the Kahr just blew me away when I saw it at the SHOT Show. I am going to hold my nose and buy one when I can.

There was never anything to license from Kel-Tec. Kel-Tec's P-3AT design is completely public domain.

Here is the complete list of Kel-Tec enforceable patents:
Kel-Tec CNC Industries patents:
* D527,788 Foldable bayonet
* 6,928,764 Grip extender for handgun

Ruger currently holds around 100 enforcable patents, if anyone is interested.

Here is a link to a PK380:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...mpakt-pk380-380-acp/

I cannot see that thing being competitive with the Ruger, Kahr, or Kel-Tec! Like most recent Walther designs, it is clunky, covered with sharp edges, busy looking, big, heavy, and just plain ugly IMHO.

comet:

Respectfully I suggest that Smith & Wesson and Walther are NOT the same... Never have been.

The relationship between S&W & Walther is simply one of convenience whereby S&W has agreed to be the U.S. importer (and warrenty provider) for a specific number of Walther pistols.

These pistols imported by S&W for Walther America include the PPS/P99's/P22's perhaps one or two others I cannot remember right now.

For example the warranty on a Walther firearm is one year. S&W warranty is for the lifetime of the original buyer.

Smith & Wesson did collaberate regarding the SW99 (which is basically a Walther P99 but with a S&W slide and barrel. The SW99 was molded into the SW990 and both S&W models are no longer manufactured.

But even then Walther had no claim to the SW99, or SW990, and no Walther banner is found on those pistols. The Walther P99's ARE bannered by Walther and the only indication of any connection to S&W with the P99's is the line "IMPORTED BY S&W for Walther", generally found on the right side of the slide near the front of the pistol.

Walther DID sell the PPK line of pistols to S&W, and the new PPK's ARE indeed all American manufactured and solely owned by Smith & Wesson.

My understanding is the with the release of the Walther 9mm/40 cal. PPS the smaller caliber, old technology PPK was redundant and no longer desirable to Walther.

So, S&W does import for Walther on specific firearms, S&W does own the PPK but other than that S&W and Walther have always been two distinct firearm manufacturers.

No offense, just offering my opinion.

Best Wishes,

Jesse


P.S. If I'm wrong I'll be more than happy to apologize.. My comments are based on owning a P99/AS, P99c/AS, PPS (2). I have had many conversations with the folks at S&W Customer Service regarding the relationship of these particular Walther firearms to S&W, and two conversations with a gentleman in Germany at Walther headquarters. It seems most of the confusion regarding the connection of S&W & Walther comes simply from having the import marking of S&W on the slides of those Walther pistols S&W is importing, (and obviously being paid to import and warrant) and servicing these particular pistols.

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"Laus Deo"

It was my understanding that S&W only has the lisc to produce PPKs for the U.S. (possibly North Armerican) market. Walther had FEG make up a PPK/E under lisc for the European market and stamp it so as to appear to be a "real" Walther and yet sell it for less.

There was a run of 686s, with a black finish, that sold in Europe that I think were stamped "Walther". One of the German members probably knows more about them, I've only seen them in books.

I would agree with most of what you said, but a minor detail. The SW99 has a Walther banner and "Made In Germany" on the frame. I have never handled a SW990, so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't have the banner.

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J.D. Roy

Maybe they need to bring back the .35.

This looks more than a little like the Walther 22.

And nothing at all like the size of the Kel Tec P3AT.(Which IS a very desirableitem - ultra concealable, and fun to shoot.

Flash

I recently picked up this prototype belt buckle for my Keltec P3AT. I keep my shirt out so it works great as a back-up, or just out the door. Works really great in the car, almost like a cross draw--always ready. The belt can also be shifted to the side. It is made of leather over stainless steel and is holding up very well.

Wow! You semi-auto folks are dense . . . it's called a J-frame. It has this big round thing in the middle, comes in better calibers than the 380 and doesn't jam when neglected . . . or in the case of the LCP, it doesn't blow up in my hand either.

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vim vi repellere licet

This is a photo of the last polymer mousegun that I'll ever own:



Note the blown out grip bottom and the destroyed spring and follower in the mag. The two remaining rounds in the mag had their bullets seated well down in their casings.

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vim vi repellere licet

Where would you get the ammo for it?

The last word I heard was a flat out NO because they didn't wish to compete with the "J" Frame line. Makes sense to me.

Isn't Earls' the US importer for Walther? I bought a Walther SSP from Earls about two years ago and they seemed to have the other Walthers with the exception of the PPK's.

Two different animals. Earl imports German Walthers, S&W manufactures a licensed copy in Maine. A S&W PPK series sells for in the neighborhood of $600 MSRP, and one of Earl's imports will cost you about $2000. Earl can't import PPK's because they don't meet the import point criteria.