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  #1  
Old 05-14-2009, 09:54 PM
1stepp 1stepp is offline
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I took pocession of a 4566 this past Sunday Looks barely used by Fresno PD. But there is one issues: in SA there is a "click" sound and feel to the trigger about half way through the pull. I video'd the problem with and without the slide installed. DA is smooth. I have yet to fire this pistol and want to make sure it's safe to do so.


Picture with it grandfather 645

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  #2  
Old 05-15-2009, 04:38 AM
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your trigger play spring is either broken off or out of adjustment.

its only purpose is to keep tension on the SA trigger.

its the little L shaped left spring behind the trigger if you look down at a field stripped frame.

I have shot a match with mine broken. if you never take your finger off the trigger, and only reset to the point needed to fire the next round, you will never no its missing.

do a search on trigger click or trigger play spring.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:03 AM
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Off topic....

The magazines in the photo are NOT CORRECT for your pistol.

While they will work, (and probably just fine). Later pistols would have been supplied with plastic bottomed mags. There are also other subtle differences in earlier and later generations.

Any pistol that would have been supplied with "MIM" parts would have had the later style magazines.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by banger:
Off topic....

The magazines in the photo are NOT CORRECT for your pistol.

While they will work, (and probably just fine). Later pistols would have been supplied with plastic bottomed mags. There are also other subtle differences in earlier and later generations.

Any pistol that would have been supplied with "MIM" parts would have had the later style magazines.
It came with one plastic bottom mag that was soaking at the time of the pictures. It had kinds of crud caked in it. The metal bottomed mags were purchased with the 645. Thanks for the clarification though.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:21 AM
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SW CQB 45 is right in all respects. I wouldn't worry about it. It is not unsafe. Mine do it, too. I think they all do it eventually. If you look at the trigger play spring, it's a flimsy piece of stamped metal. There are threads on this forum about CHP's new buy of 4006s a couple of years ago, which were supplied without the part.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:59 AM
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I acquired a 4516 yesterday with the same problem. Take a pencil with a nice new eraser on it and push on the above mentioned spring, pushing towards the front or dust cover, this will re tension the spring and the clicking should stop once you get it right.
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:36 AM
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here is the spring riveted to the trigger bar.

some have two fingers looking up and some have the two fingers connected across the top.

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Old 05-19-2009, 09:21 AM
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Thanks all for the help. After I figured out that I needed to decock the hammer in order to adjust the spring, it adjusted easily. Trigger is now smooth and crisp in SA.
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:39 PM
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+1. Thanks guys. My 4566 had the same problem and was fixed in just a few minutes thanks to this thread. I appreciate it!
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:09 PM
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Don't go in there too vigorously with a cleaning brush either, or you'll snap the spring right off.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:27 PM
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Same problem with a CS45. Fixed now!
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:15 AM
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This thread help save me the hassle of shipping my new 4566TSW back to the factory. Just genlty pushing towards the muzzle of the gun on the tab with an eraser help adjust the tension enough to stop the clicking. I do occasionally get the click on the start of the SA pull, but doesn't happen again for a little while.

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  #13  
Old 06-22-2010, 07:41 AM
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Bought a 4566 LE turn-in that had that annoying single action click. With the slide off and the hammer cocked you could see the drawbar plunger spring pop up halfway through the pull. I adjusted that trigger play spring ever so slightly forward and that solved the problem. Now I have a very nice SA trigger, thanks to all who posted on this topic.
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:58 AM
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Likewise, thanks for the help. Photo made all the difference.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:54 PM
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So do you push the copper looking bracket with the two raised tabs pushing a little on each left and right tab until the clicking stops? and this copper bracket is called a spring? Thanks trying to fine tune my 4506
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:13 AM
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Default Thanks to fastbolt...

my "clicking noise" issue was resolved as well. He did a great
article on it, with great pics, and I bet you'll find it if you search trigger play spring. It wasn't a real "issue", but it was comforting to have
the real story. TACC1 (seemed like an issue at the time)
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  #17  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFuzz View Post
So do you push the copper looking bracket with the two raised tabs pushing a little on each left and right tab until the clicking stops? and this copper bracket is called a spring? Thanks trying to fine tune my 4506
Yep... that little bugger is the trigger free play spring, and that's how you basically go about it adjusting them.

Here's a pic with the parts out of the gun to see the relationship of the spring with the trigger pawls, the red arrow points to the area where the clicking comes from when the spring doesn't keep the trigger snug against the drawbar.

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  #18  
Old 04-06-2011, 02:41 PM
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Excellent used a square end of a wooden chopstick and nudged the copped flange forward ever so slightly forward towards the muzzle end and Perfecto ! No click and nice and smooth single action.

I had to run out to my Gunsmith and tell him forget i figured it out give me my gun back, he wasnt even going to look at it until Saturday so i saved some money and he probably didnt even know what he was going to do.

Thanks all excellent info and knowledge. left Holster finally showing up tonight and ready to carry my 4506 again WoooHoo

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Old 02-24-2012, 04:13 PM
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Very interesting. My recently acquired 4506 had the same clicking and while having it apart I noticed the spring was not pushing the trigger against the drawbar. So I just adjusted it a little and once I had the gun back together the clicking was fixed. Although I thought cleaning the gun fixed the click now I know from this thread it was the spring adjustment that did the trick! Thanks for the education.
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2012, 01:25 AM
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I guess its important for folks to know that this applies to basically all 3rd gen Smiths, not just the 45xx models. My 9mm 910 was doing the same thing, and with the information found here I took it apart tonight and fixed the problem. Always a good day when you learn something new.
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  #21  
Old 02-25-2012, 08:10 AM
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It looks like it would also apply to my 2nd Gen pistols as well.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:16 PM
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Has it dawned on anyone at how much trouble you guys calling a little, fragile piece of stamped brass a "spring" has caused me???????????????

A "spring" looks like a miniature "Slinky" -- and bears no resemblance whatsoever to a little, fragile piece of stamped brass. There is no "spring" anywhere near the area you've been describing.

There is, however, a little piece of stamped brass with two prongs that are bent backwards at the top of each prong.

When you press gently on that little piece of misnamed metal, the "click" magically disappears.

A spring is a spring unless you're British -- and you're "shagged" if you don't know the difference.

(Uuuuuhhhhhh....Wait a second! Didn't the British used to own Smith and Wesson???????)

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  #23  
Old 10-04-2012, 03:01 PM
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Ever seen a "leaf spring"? Does it look look a coil?
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
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Ever seen a "leaf spring"? Does it look look a coil?
Sorry, no, I've never seen one -- that I was ever aware of.

So I have no idea what it looks like...

In 99.9999999999% of American usage, a "spring" is a coiled metal object.

If this sort of "spring" is exclusive to guns and gunsmithing, I've learned something.

Is a "leaf spring" a common gunsmithing term -- and is that what this part technically is in gunsmithing terms?
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:10 PM
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At any rate, I'm shocked at how well the new pencil and eraser "nudge" works.

On one 1006, the click had gotten quite annoying -- and this method fixed the problem in about three minutes.

On this particular gun, the leaf spring was bent pretty substantially.

Anybody have any workable theories on why this happens?

My surmise is, it looks like a probable side effect of recoil over time and pounding.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:51 PM
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Yeah this is probably the most common little complaint with 3rd gens. There are several ways the trigger play spring can get bent, snagging it with cloth while cleaning, any forward pressure on the trigger while cocked, metal fatigue over time. In fact it gets worse and more common as the metal weakens. Looks like it could be made of a better tempered more resilient spring steel but this is what Smith chooses to use. In some cases it winds up breaking off and you either live with it or have it replaced with the same part and start all over again.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:20 PM
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Try Googling (how did this become a verb?) for "flat spring" images -



Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrider View Post
Sorry, no, I've never seen one -- that I was ever aware of.

So I have no idea what it looks like...

In 99.9999999999% of American usage, a "spring" is a coiled metal object.

If this sort of "spring" is exclusive to guns and gunsmithing, I've learned something.

Is a "leaf spring" a common gunsmithing term -- and is that what this part technically is in gunsmithing terms?
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:53 AM
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I think for the most part flat springs are more common in pistols than coil springs. Sear springs, main springs, trigger play springs, etc... all flat... the sear spring in a 1911 is one flat spring with 3 other little flat springs coming off of it.
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:49 PM
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Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread. I just finished replacing the broken trigger play spring on my recently acquired 4506-1. Doubt I would have tackled it without the information provided here. Happy New Year!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outrider View Post
Has it dawned on anyone at how much trouble you guys calling a little, fragile piece of stamped brass a "spring" has caused me???????????????

A "spring" looks like a miniature "Slinky" -- and bears no resemblance whatsoever to a little, fragile piece of stamped brass. There is no "spring" anywhere near the area you've been describing
Don't ever go looking for a main rod bearing in a car motor then, it will blow your mind lol
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:50 PM
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Hmm...I'd noticed this clicking issue occasionally on my "new" 3913. I'm glad I read this thread.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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This is unbelieveable. I bought a law enforcement trade in 6906 a few months ago and found that I absolutely love this pistol. IMHO it is the perfect size pistol for ccw when you consider size and ammo capacity. But I HAD one problem. The clicking sound in S/A mode being discussed here. So I re-adjusted the trigger play spring as described here and presto- the pistol is like brand new. Now instead of sitting in my safe it sits on my waist. Thank you very much to all that provided a solution for me.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:54 AM
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I am also glad i read this thread because my trusty 4513tsw was making the same single action click.. Fixed thanks to you guys...thank you
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
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Don't ever go looking for a main rod bearing in a car motor then, it will blow your mind lol
Wonder what those things are that hold up the back end of his all-American pick-em-up truck ?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:54 PM
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Yep, usually the "click" heard is the sound of the tips of the trigger's forward prongs (or "ears"), as they're pulled down back into the V-notch on the back of the drawbar head, after having slipped up above the top edge of the V-notch at that spot.

Sometimes the spring tension against the back of the trigger's prongs may be reduced enough to allow the trigger prongs to tip upward at the front and slip above the top edge of the V-notch. Pulling the trigger brings them back down into the notch ... but produces that clicking sound.

I've been told by different factory folks throughout the years that while it's possible to have the SA trigger click occur in other calibers of the 3rd gen guns, it's most likely to occur in the .45/10 guns. Something about the dimensions and tolerances involved in the frame & drawbars in the .45/10's.

I have found it occurring in an occasional double column 59XX 9mm, though.

Anyway, while a slight adjustment of the trigger play spring can usually resolve this minor "click", it may not be a permanent fix.

The older style trigger pay spring, with the separate leaf springs on each side ("open" at the top of the spring), were somewhat stiffer than the current spring.

The current spring is connected across the top, and the side leafs are a bit less stiff. I've seen how if one side of an older version of the trigger play spring were to snap off, the remaining side could still be tensioning the spring (but I replaced the broken spring, anyway).

I'm not privy to why the engineers made the spring change from the separated sides to the connected sides, from thick/stiff to thinner/lighter, but the new style seems less likely to snap off, being more flexible and "forgiving".

Of course, excessively "adjusting" either style can accelerate the normal wear & tear on the spring, and even break them. Some caution would seem prudent in being over zealous in frequently "adjusting" the springs.

Anyway, the guns will run without them. The SA trigger will just have a bit more "slop" (forward & rearward), which probably wouldn't be noticed during the stresses of actual shooting ... unless someone was doing slow-fire target style shooting in SA. I remember firing approx 800+ rounds during 2 days of training & practice some years back, with a 6906, during which time the trigger play spring completely snapped off my gun. I was surprised to see it missing, as I hadn't felt anything different at all throughout my shooting.

Some years ago the CHP out here in CA apparently tired of shipping guns back to their Sacto gunsmiths to have the occasional broken trigger play spring removed, as I was told they removed the springs from all their guns and even drilled out the drawbars so a field armorer couldn't replace them (I was told this by one of their field armorers). When they ordered their new 4006TSW's, this time around they were ordered produced without trigger play springs.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:40 PM
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Default CS40 Same problem but comes back

Hi All, I am new to the forum but not to S&W. Been a fan for over 20 years when I bought my first, a 915 when I turned 21. Anyways, I just purchased a used CS40 with the same trigger clicking and was impressed to find this forum which fixed the issue but only temporarily. The play spring seems to be fine, not broke, fairly stiff but fairly easy to adjust by pushing it forward slightly. It is the newer style spring that is connected together. Problem is I can take the gun out and fire it a few times and the problem comes right back. I know it is trivial, not really needed and by not fully releasing you never really know but I am a perfectionist and looking for a permanent fix. My model 915 that is over 20 years old and I have a 5906 that has never had this issue. Just wondering if anyone has seen this problem keep coming back and if there is a permanent solution. Thanks for any advice on this.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:47 PM
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tobiasplayer,

I had the clicking on my 3913 and fixed it after finding this thread. I probably have 100 rounds through it since and the click hasn't returned yet. Mine has the newer style spring FWIW.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:30 AM
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Default Returning clicking trigger in CS40

Thanks for the reply, I wondered if maybe I was just not bending it enough not wanting to break it off. Last night in looking at it again I saw some rubbing marks on the bottom side of the barrel like maybe it had rubbed on something. I am not sure if it is possible for the barrel to touch this spring but if so maybe the recoil is causing the barrel to hit the play spring? I can cycle the action by hand as much as I want and the trigger click never comes back but if I fire the gun a few times the clicking comes right back again. Maybe my play spring is out of tolerance and sitting up too high causing it to touch the barrel in recoil? Still searching for answers if anyone has any insight. Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:47 AM
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Mine did the same thing, came right back after about ten rounds. I finally sent it back to S&W for replacement. (No Charge!).
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:37 PM
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--- Some years ago the CHP out here in CA apparently tired of shipping guns back to their Sacto gunsmiths to have the occasional broken trigger play spring removed, as I was told they removed the springs from all their guns and even drilled out the drawbars so a field armorer couldn't replace them (I was told this by one of their field armorers). When they ordered their new 4006TSW's, this time around they were ordered produced without trigger play springs. ---


I have a CA State Parks 4006 that has the spring drilled out as well.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:58 PM
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If I send it to S&W for a new spring install would I just pay shipping? Not sure if the lifetime warranty only applies to the original buyer or how that works. I have also had the spring and guide rod pop out of its groove on the barrel while field stripping the gun on a few occasions. Does not look very secure in the groove to me. Thanks for the replies.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:57 PM
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Thanks again for the fix on these guns. I simply uswed my "Homer Simpson fingers" and it adjusted quite nicely on a 457 I recently bought.
Again, thanks for saving me a trip to the gunsmith!
HT
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:30 AM
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Wow! This thread had legs. This 4566 is now out of the PRK, in a free state, and now a EDC. Not a small pistol but not a small guy either...
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:14 PM
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PIC TO FOLLOW

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Old 10-21-2013, 09:13 AM
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Where can I get one!
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:50 AM
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Yes, please tell.

I just got a new spring clip and rivet to install on my 4516, so I was going to take it to a smith to install. Maybe I'll wait to see about this steel one.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:27 PM
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Lucky you.

Guess the cat's out of the bag, so to speak.

The highly polished stainless steel-looking trigger play spring was originally only made for the FBI 10's. Something about maybe being more resistant to the shock of heavier recoil forces, and made at the request of the FBI armorers.

I was told that it didn't even have a part number associated with it within S&W back then. It was kept separate from the parts dept. (No need to know where. )

I first learned about them during an armorer recert, being told about them by a very senior & more experienced S&W armorer. The customer service people I called had never heard of them. They sounded sincere and skeptical when I explained what I'd been told about them. Not even the designated parts contacts for LE armorers had heard of them.

I finally had to call a name I'd been given by the older armorer ... and that gentleman asked me how I'd even heard of them. He chuckled when I explained it, and then sent me some of them.

No, I'm not sending any of the very few of them I have left to anyone!

Maybe they finally decided to make that older revision of the TP spring the "new" spring as far as parts replacement inventory. Dunno. They change vendors and revisions like most of us change socks & underwear. I'll try to remember to ask next time I place an order for assorted spare parts.

BTW, I was told to use the same soft TP rivet for the optional TP spring back then, and they've exhibited no problems working in any of the guns in which I've installed my meager supply over the years.

Stranger things have changed in the 3rd gen guns, and have continued to change even though they've been "dropped" from the commercial, and even the LE/Gov, catalogs. For example, I learned a while back that they've finally decided that they can use roll pins instead of the solid pins for the extractors. (It's about time, and no doubt prompted by what they're doing in the M&P pistols.)

I was told there aren't any designated parts numbers available separately in the commercial sales parts list, but that as an armorer I could call and ask for the appropriate roll pin/extractor pin for any particular 3rd gen gun model. Maybe someday I'll have the time to do that ... but in the meantime, I still have a bunch of solid repair extractor pins sitting unused in my parts.
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  #48  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:28 PM
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Recently picked up three 4506 and one 4566. All of them had some form or another of the clicking going on. The 4566 was the worst. Simply bent forward the copper tabs on the 4506's, and the solid copper tab at the top on the 4566. Good as new.
No more clicking and much smoother too. Ain't the internet great! Solved this problem via google and here I am. Thanks to all.

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  #49  
Old 02-06-2014, 01:03 PM
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Did your 4566 come from Fresno PD, or Fresno SO? I never knew the Fresno PD to carry the 4566, however, Fresno still does (although I've been hearing that there may be a change to the M&P .45).
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:35 PM
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No law enforcement background on the 4566. Purchased it from a private owner.
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