Hello. I just wanted to mention an incident that occurred last week involving an older lot of Speer Lawman 124-gr. TMJ ammunition. The Part No. is listed on the front of the box as # 3824.

On the back of the box, I find "Lewiston ID No. 83501" and in tiny letters "LP-357DX".

The above are the closest I can find to possible lot numbers.

Nothing is stamped inside the brown cardboard box or on either end flap.

The original cardboard case boxes that this stuff came in are long gone.

Cartridge cases are marked "Speer 9mm LUGER".


Here is a picture of the ammunition being discussed.

I bought quite a bit of this ammunition in the the early and mid-90's because I got it at a very nice price and it grouped very nicely in my Browning Hi Powers, several SIG-Sauer P225's and P226's, and a SIG P210. Though not optimum for self-protection, it was very nice range ammunition. Average velocity is about 1140 to 1150 ft/sec from a Hi Power, a bit faster than some other 124-gr. standard pressure commercial 9mm ammunition.

I still had a few boxes of this ammunition and used it recently with a Glock 17 (unaltered, except for the sights) and a factory stock S&W M&P.

On several ocassions, this ammunition failed to fire despite being stored under ideal conditions (inside the house w/central air and heat). This would occur about 3 times per 10 attempted shots with either pistol. Every round would fire on the second attempt with either gun.

A few days later, I took some of this same ammuntion that came in the same case with the "culprit ammo" previously mentioned, and tried it again with the same Glock and some other pistols.

I had checked the striker assembly and channel in the Glock 17 and it was both dry and reasonably clean. I did clean it anyway.

This ammunition was fired in the following pistols:

STAR Model B: 30 rnds, no problems

Browning Hi Power Mk III w/32-lb mainspring: 30 shots, no problems

1971 Browning with 26-lb mainspring: 30 shots, no problems

FNP-9: 30 shots, no problems

Glock 17: 30 shots, 8 failures to fire w/0 problems on second attempt

Glock 26: 30 shots, 6 failures to fire w/0 problems on second attempt

Examination of the primers on the rounds that failed to fire showed lightly-dimpled striker indentations but these looked normal when fired cases from the second attempts were checked.

I am not "knocking" Glocks or M&P's but it appears that their striker-type firing systems do not hit the primer with as much force as pistols having the conventional hammer-and-firing-pin setups, at least not the ones tried above. I seem to recall that some surplus Greek 9mm ammunition having warnings that it was "not recommended" for Glocks a few years ago and for the same reason.

I mention this only in case a Glock or S&W M&P shooter decides to buy/use some of this ammunition. I do not know if all lots of this type of Speer ammunition will offer these problems. I have fired Speer Gold Dots through both of my Glocks with no problems at all.

Just wanted fellow shooters to be aware of this possibility with this particular ammunition.

Best.

I had a similar experience several years ago shooting a lot of Fiocci 9mm in my Glock 17. The same ammo presented no problems in my pistols with external hammers.

I suspect that striker fired pistols have problems when loaded with ammo having extra hard primers. It would be interesting to know the average force exerted by the strikers of the different brands of striker fired autos in comparison to the force of hammer fired autos.

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I shoot, therefore I am.

The "Clean Fire" ammo by Speer may be an early version of ammunition loaded with all non-toxic components. [Note the bullet is totally encapsulated, nowdays they generally contain no lead whatsoever.] Non-toxic primers are generally known for being difficult to ignite under the best circumstances and improvements have been made since their introduction.

Glocks sold outside the US frequently have striker springs much more robust than those sold here. There's actually a color code for those parts so Glock armorers can fit the correct part.

I expect that the relatively small diameter of the striker area that contacts the primer is the S&W solution to creating a stronger stiker impact.

Hello and thanks. I'll bet it is the primer in this "Clean Fire" '90's vintage ammunition.

Best.

Thanks for your effort on this very well prepared test of this ammo. I have striker fired autos and will be sure of the brand I use.Good job and thanks for sharing.

Thanks (as usual) to Mr. Camp!
And the others responding...

Every once and awhile folks will run into ammo that for one reason or another (e.g., overly hard primer, primer pockets too deep, etc.) will have misfires in Glocks. This issue is discussed frequently over on GlockTalk.com. The one I read about most frequently, is S&B 140gr. 357 Sig ammo. Many folks with Glock 31 and 32 pistols have problems with that particular ammo. My brother reported problems with Wolff brand .40 S&W a number of years back. Upon examination, he felt it was an overly deep seated primer issue. His answer was to not buy anymore of that ammo, problem solved.

It is generally agreed that if you want to use the ammo that gives trouble, get an extra power striker spring from Glockmeister.com. However, it will increase the trigger pull a little bit. Nonetheless, it works.

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1st Signal Brigade, RVN '70