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Old 01-08-2009, 08:20 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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i went to the shooting range and i used some of those fluorescent targets and i couldn't hit the center! every time i shot i was aiming for the center, i had the front sights white dot on the center of the target every time and this is what i got. i did get better every time though. could my sights be off? this is from about 10 yards.

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

5th
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:20 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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i went to the shooting range and i used some of those fluorescent targets and i couldn't hit the center! every time i shot i was aiming for the center, i had the front sights white dot on the center of the target every time and this is what i got. i did get better every time though. could my sights be off? this is from about 10 yards.

1st

2nd

3rd

4th

5th
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  #3  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:56 PM
t3chnoid t3chnoid is offline
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is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range.  
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You didn't say what kind of gun you were using.

I wouldn't mess with the sights. At 10 yards your groups are not that bad. In fact you were settling down as you went along. At home, practice dry firing with that gun 3 times a week for maybe 15 minutes. There are plenty of web sites with good information on proper dry fire practice, someone will chime in I'm sure.

You need to train your hand to pull that trigger straight back without moving the sights off target though the pull. That actually is better done with dry fire than with bullets.

Google dry fire and look for the coin trick. And a laser, even a cheap one, helps during dry fire to see what's happening when the hammer drops.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Hold the (EMPTY!) gun up sighting on a quarter at about 6 feet of distance. While doing so close your LEFT eye. If the front sight seems to instantly "jump" without you having moved your hands to exactly where your rounds are landing on the target, your sighting left eye dominant.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:33 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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oh ok it was a 4506. im not gonna mess with the sights but i will try those tips.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:39 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spotteddog:
Hold the (EMPTY!) gun up sighting on a quarter at about 6 feet of distance. While doing so close your LEFT eye. If the front sight seems to instantly "jump" without you having moved your hands to exactly where your rounds are landing on the target, your sighting left eye dominant.
should i be using both eyes to sight?

if i use both eyes to sight something and the sights are lined up, when i close my left eye nothing happens to the sight, but if i close my right eye the front sight moves to the right
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:09 PM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Ideally, you should be using both? I say "ideally" because some peoples eyesight is significantly enough mis-matched L to R, to cause them no end of problems using iron sights. To verify whether this is in play for you personally, the next time your at the range turn a bullseye target backwards (white side towards you) and and in the center of the blank sheet either trace a quarter and color it in with a Sharpie pen or purchase some peel and stick 3/4" stick on's to place in the center. Run it out to between 2 and 3 yards distance. Then, choose one eye or the other L or R, CLOSE the other one, sight as always and fire three rounds. Then, close the OTHER eye, sight as usual, fire three rounds. See the difference using which eye to sight with makes on the target. I am a right hand shooter who due to a head injury became left eye dominant. It can cause problems. In fact to this day I'll sometimes revert and rip a group at 2 o'clock, then realize it, correct and proceed. The difference @ 10 yards for me is typically 3 inches. It's a fun experiment to try that only costs 6 rounds to verify.
BTW: It's not impossible that the person originally sighting in the gun wasn't L/dominant?
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:21 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spotteddog:
Ideally, you should be using both? I say "ideally" because some peoples eyesight is significantly enough mis-matched L to R, to cause them no end of problems using iron sights. To verify whether this is in play for you personally, the next time your at the range turn a bullseye target backwards (white side towards you) and and in the center of the blank sheet either trace a quarter and color it in with a Sharpie pen or purchase some peel and stick 3/4" stick on's to place in the center. Run it out to between 2 and 3 yards distance. Then, choose one eye or the other L or R, CLOSE the other one, sight as always and fire three rounds. Then, close the OTHER eye, sight as usual, fire three rounds. See the difference using which eye to sight with makes on the target. I am a right hand shooter who due to a head injury became left eye dominant. It can cause problems. In fact to this day I'll sometimes revert and rip a group at 2 o'clock, then realize it, correct and proceed. The difference @ 10 yards for me is typically 3 inches. It's a fun experiment to try that only costs 6 rounds to verify.
BTW: It's not impossible that the person originally sighting in the gun wasn't L/dominant?
im definately gonna try that. so what should happen after trying this? should both group of shots be around the same area of the target?
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:24 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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Do you happen to know what length the factory sights are set to zero at?
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Both groups should be fired onto the same target, 3 rounds with each eye. The idea is to compare the Point Of Impact (POI) difference of each group of three, when using each eye individually.
If it's a dominance issue the POI will shift by 1 to 3 inches from the center, most likely in your case to the right. If it does, then adjust your sights to YOUR eyes. If you decide to adjust, do it at no less than 30 feet (50 feet would be better). Remember you move the rear sight (as viewed by the shooter) TOWARDS the direction you want the POI to go. I highly recommend using brush on White Out before moving the sight, so you have a feel for how far it's actally been shifted. You'll likely be quite surprised at how little it will need to be shifted, so go slow 2 or three rounds off of sandbags after each adjustment. Take your time and get it right, for YOU.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:50 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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ok i'll report back when i try that, but i have no idea how to move the sights. i though fixed meant they wouldnt budge? or will they move side to side?
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:22 AM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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The learned folks either here, or in the gunsmith area can answer that question for you. I unfortunately, cannot? I don't know whether your model has a set screw to lock up the rear sight in it's dovetail, or perhaps whether it may need the assistance of a brass or copper drift to be shifted to a new position on your slide during re-zeroing, even if it has a set screw? I understand there are yet others, that require the use of a dedicated sight driving tool, whether or not it has a set screw?
Be patient, ask around in here and in the gunsmith section. I've yet to see a firearm related question go unaided on this Forum!
Good Luck!
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:46 AM
Jim H Jim H is offline
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Quote:

if i use both eyes to sight something and the sights are lined up, when i close my left eye nothing happens to the sight, but if i close my right eye the front sight moves to the right
Your right eye is dominant, since your brain is ignoring your left eye until you close your right eye.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:44 PM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Thanks Jim!
Yes, he's right eye dominant. And because of where, and how well he's grouping after shooting a few targets worth, is why I'm suggesting that he could use a rear sight adjustment. That's pretty close a distance to be several inches off.
JOMO?
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:46 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Fixed originally meant not intended to be adjusted by the user. Now, it (usually) means adjustable for windage by moving the rear sight (may require tools), elevation adjustable by replacing front sights.

You've got some centered hits that seem to indicate that the weapon may be correctly sighted, but you have some issues with correctly pressing the trigger and grip. I'll back the dryfire practice suggestions. The sights shouldn't move from the small dot you're using as a target.
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Old 01-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Agree too W/R.
I'm not clear on whether it may be a "used" gun. Meaning possible previous owner adjustment?
But as always, the BEST way, is to put at least one if not 2 other good shooters behind it and see where she groups for them. It's not an indictment of the O/P's ability, just a serving suggestion. Does anyone have the illustrated target with POI/symptom chart printed on it they could post?
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:42 PM
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magnum12pm magnum12pm is offline
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is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range.  
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Spottedog hit on the secret. Please!! always use a pistol rest or sandbags to check or adjust sights. You never want to assume you are so skilled you can correct a sight by hand holding the weapon. I know I have said this before on this forum, but it bears repeating over and over. You can dispute me on this if you would care to, but I say it is nuts to try and adjust or check by hand holding!
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Old 01-09-2009, 08:57 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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range should I shoot at to check if it is correctly zeroed? I've been looking for that chart with missing symptoms also.
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:42 PM
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is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range.  
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:26 AM
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is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range. is something wrong with my sights? i took a trip to the range.  
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Link to a little bit cleaner version of the target, found via google:
http://myairguns.org/Documents/Marksmanship%20double_co...0target%20pistol.gif
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:27 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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WARNING! The pictured chart is for standing on your hind legs with only one hand on the gun, ie bullseye shooting.

Two hands on the gun, low hits are yanking the trigger, high hits are grip issues-if the sight picture is correct. Left and right hits are trigger finger placement/yanking.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:27 PM
bill_in_TX bill_in_TX is offline
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I've got a basic question (from ignorance) for 45Caliber.

Are those pictures oriented exactly the way you were shooting or were the targets actually hanging so that printing was right side up?

I ask for two reasons (1) I've never seen horizontal hanging of targets (my ignorance maybe, but most places here want you to get the target as far away from the hangers as possible, which means potrait orientation) and (2) it makes a significant difference in any diagnosis of issues.
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Old 01-10-2009, 08:38 PM
45calibre 45calibre is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bill_in_TX:
I've got a basic question (from ignorance) for 45Caliber.

Are those pictures oriented exactly the way you were shooting or were the targets actually hanging so that printing was right side up?

I ask for two reasons (1) I've never seen horizontal hanging of targets (my ignorance maybe, but most places here want you to get the target as far away from the hangers as possible, which means potrait orientation) and (2) it makes a significant difference in any diagnosis of issues.
no they were hung right side up so that you can read the lettering. when i uploaded them to my computer they just came out that way dont know why. according to the chart i was yanking the trigger and not holding the gun right? i watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6QxR...eature=related
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:35 AM
Spotteddog Spotteddog is offline
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Absolutely what Bill in Tx said!
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:09 AM
bill_in_TX bill_in_TX is offline
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Quote:
no they were hung right side up so that you can read the lettering. when i uploaded them to my computer they just came out that way dont know why. according to the chart i was yanking the trigger and not holding the gun right?
That was kind of what I suspected and it makes a world of difference.

On the picture upload thing. I've found that all my pics upload to the computer horizontally just as if you'd copied in a roll of film. To get the vertical (sometimes called potrait orientation) you have to rotate the pic in some computer image software before uploading to your hosting site and posting (might be able to rotate in the hosting site, but I've not dome that).

On the shooting then with proper perspective now, it looks like you're generally shooting a little down and to the right after some initial wobbliness (My conclusion is from the latter targets).

My first reaction would be to suspect that maybe you're anticipating recoil and pushing into the gun a little bit. The best way to test that is to have a friend prepare your gun to fire without you seeing and vary randomly between a loaded round and an empty chamber. Then, it is usally pretty obvious with the empty chamber if you're pushing the gun as you pull the trigger.

A better method, if you have a reloader friend, is to load up a true dummy round (spent primer intact, seated bullet and no powder), have the friend place that dummy somewhere in the mag and watch while you shoot. Again, it will be obvious if you're pushing when you pull the trigger on that dummy. (the dummy round is also a good thing to have for eventually practicing failure drills, as well).

I pushed some with the first few rounds that I fired from my 1026, because I was subconsciously expecting a lot of recoil. After I realized what a pussycat the 10 is in that frame I settled down.

Whenever I start pushing the gun (anticipating recoil) I now use a different trick that works for me. I take my 480 Ruger Raging Bull out and fire 10-15 rounds of that first. After that none of my SD type guns feel like they have any recoil and I forget about it .
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